>character calls his brother "aniki"
>it's subbed with his name
i hate that
>Character has a pseudonym/nickname that everyone calls that way
>It's translated in the subs.
I know that's what it is, but it sounds so fucking unnatural
>subbed as hello Mr. Takashi
>girl calls her sister aniki
>it's subbed as bro
Nemu best haibane.
Is this bait?
I want to fall asleep with Nemu.
No. Why the fuck would you want Mr Takashi? -san and mr have completely different connotations, anyway, and if you're using honorifics like chan and sama, you might as well use san too.
>Implying that's an entirely correct translation
Since when do people outside japan actually refer to their brothers as "big brother"
>if you're using honorifics like chan and sama, you might as well use san too.
No such thing, but it's as close as it gets.
To be fair, people don't refer to their siblings as "brother" or "sister" in english. They do it by name. Not that I prefer them doing that, but at least they're trying to make it sound natural.
>changing honorifics and common names at all
NEMU A SHIT!
In the English language, it's awkward and stiff for someone to address their older sibling as "brother" all the time. That's not true at all of "aniki", so translating it literally is clearly the wrong move because it misrepresents the relationship between the characters.
The only reason this appears to be incorrect is because we've seen so much anime that we can pick out a word or two, and reading something that's clearly not being said creates a dissonance.
Then keep it as aniki.
>The only reason this appears to be incorrect is because we've seen so much anime that we can pick out a word or two, and reading something that's clearly not being said creates a dissonance.
You understand the whole point of translation is to take foreign words and replace them with their nearest equivalent of different language, yeah? When you leave something untranslated and just expect your audience to be familiar enough with a language they don't actually speak to know what's on, that's pretty much a total failure of your job.
What does changing it to aniki do for you, though? You're already familiar with the term and recognize it when spoken.
For what it's worthh, the subtitle could be left out entirely for you and you'd still grasp the full meaning. Why not just leave the indirect translation in there for the plebs?
>can't understand Japanese without somebody else telling you what it means
>still think you know better than them how to translate Japanese
They're not speaking English, though, and the purpose of subtitles isn't to pretend they are, it's to allow the viewer to understand what they're saying in the language they ARE speaking in.
Of course, sometimes you have to be non-literal to achieve that goal, but that doesn't mean you can just strip the dialogue of all cultural context. You say that translating it literally would misrepresent the relationship between the characters, but then, how would you be able to compare them with siblings who do refer to each other by their names in the original dialogue? If you're not able to do that, wouldn't that be a misrepresentation too?
Also, once you start doing that, you might as well also do things like having all high schoolers (and younger) refer to each other by their first names, because no high schooler in the Anglosphere is going to refer to another high schooler by their last name unless it's jokingly (or have a very crooked relationship). Of course, if you do that, you'll lose all subtlety when it comes to establishing the relationships between the characters.
are you mad that people dont get what subtitles are used for? or mad that sometimes subs kill the joke? Or both?
It's not like "onee-chan" is any less unnatural sounding in an otherwise English sentence. It's just what you're more accustomed to.
>Of course, sometimes you have to be non-literal to achieve that goal, but that doesn't mean you can just strip the dialogue of all cultural context.
>Also, once you start doing that, you might as well also do things like having all high schoolers (and younger) refer to each other by their first names, because no high schooler in the Anglosphere is going to refer to another high schooler by their last name
Do you have no idea what a professional translators job looks like or are you trying to crticize it? Because that is exactly what is considered to be a good translation - one that translates the cultural context as well. If you read japanese literature in any other language you will never find any suffixes or stuff like that, the translations are extremly liberal, probably much more than any anime sub you have ever seen, even if you watch commie. And no, yo don't lose all subtlety by doing that you have to create that subtlety again in your own languasge. Being able to do that is what divides good translators from bad ones. Because that is what a translation is supposed to achieve: Everyone, even people without any knowledge of the original culture should be able to understand them as well as possible.
I'm criticizing what you're calling a good translation. The goal of a translation isn't to pull something from one cultural context and place it in your own, it's to make something created in a certain language understandable to someone who doesn't speak it. And that doesn't mean you have to replace everything the viewer may not be familiar with something they definitely are, because people aren't idiots. They can pull a lot from context and learn as they watch or read.
And trying to recreate that subtlety in your own language is in most cases a hopeless effort. In East-Asia they tend to value seniority much more than we do in the west. As a result, our languages simply don't have the vocabulary to be able to communicate those level differences in a way that sounds natural (e.g. a high schooler in the Anglosphere won't refer to another high school as "Mr. Smith" just because Smith happens to be a year older than him). There's also the matter that some things can simply not be translated using text (e.g. gestures), so the translator has no choice but to accept that the viewer or reader will have to face things that may be foreign to him.
You're also wrong about the translations in other languages. I don't know about Japanese, but German TV shows shown on Dutch TV channels will usually keep things like honorifics untranslated in the subtitles. Why? Because even though Dutch and German are closely related, the subtle differences in the way people refer to each other in German and Dutch are considered to be large enough that they need to be reflected in the translation.
This whole thread is bait.
Or filled with autists.
>because people aren't idiots
Whole argument discredited.
wtf does it matter they're still addressing the same person
You're the exception that proves the rule.
> it's to make something created in a certain language understandable to someone who doesn't speak it.
Yes, but this means that you have to understand the context as well. To get back to the initial topic, if you translate aniki to brother a person who doesn't know any japanese terms won't be able to understand the implied relation between the two persons. He will probably think that the speaker (calling his/her brother aniki) has quite a dsitant/formal relationship to his brother.
And yes, you're also correct that there simply are nuances in different languages that are impossible to translate, but just keeping the original terms/honorifics/suffixes/whatever is a cheap solution for that. With this you make kind of a "half-translation" for someone who understands a little bit of the original language. While you can of course do that if people like this are your major audience, I wouldn't call it a good translation. And IF you're able to understand the orignal terms as well than why bother? You can probably think for yourself what the characters that originally anyway.
Your reasoning is backwards. Even without prior knowledge, people are able to derive a lot from the information they're given, but how much they can derive is entirely dependent on the quantity and quality of information. Your ideal form of translation that's actively removing information, even information that could be communicated using purely only English terms, and not increasing information quality by enough to compensate for the loss is therefore directly interfering with people's ability to derive anything from it.
So yes, even without studying Japanese culture beforehand, people will be able to understand that that little sister calling her older brother "brother" or "bro" or whatever have a normal, close brother-sister relationship just from the way they interact and how they're treated by others. But the other way around doesn't work. You can usually immediately tell the difference between a formal and an informal relationship, but the difference between two equals (e.g. childhood friends of the same age) and of two people who are very close, but where seniority still matters is not always so obvious.
As for your "half-translations", even the English version of Les Miserables, a world famous book that doesn't only get read by Francophiles, has the French honorifics intact. It's considered accepted practice, because the merits simply outweigh the demerits. It's only considered an issue in anime/manga translations. Possibly because translators want to distance themselves from "weeaboos" or possible because Americans aren't used to consuming foreign entertainment.