>There people on /a/, right now, that can't read Hiragana and Katakana at the bare minimum
I don't live on the moon
That's nothing, I can't even read English.
the bare minimum where I am is nothing.
>there are people on /a/ that need to go to /lang/ or /jp/
>there are people on /a/ that greentext unnecessarily
Who are you quoting?
>Memorizing scribbles to fit in with a culture thousands of miles away
>There are people on /a/, right now, that can't read 教育漢字 at the bare minimum
I spent days memorizing both alphabets. Then I hit a wall with kanji and slowly forgot everything. Feels bad.
I memorized them, then I discovered that I barely run into Katakana and Hiragana, so I decided to put off learning it until I need it survive (if I somehow end up miles away in Japan.)
I spent a week of my summer learning it. Ragequit at kanji and need to refresh before I can read these signs and vaguely couple them to words I remember from anime.
Not worth it
The pleasure of being cummed inside
You called, darlings?
>there are people on /a/ RIGHT NOW that are learning jap instead of latin
Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow
Why would you want to learn a dead language?
►There are people on /a/ right now who believe that learning another language is only useful if you want to get a job
>Learning a useless language
I learned latin in highschool. You know what it did for me? Fucking nothing. At least with nipspeak I can read raw manga.
I already know mexican.
Because it's cool as heck.
>being such a weeaboo that you learn Nip talk.
If I was going to live over there, sure.
>there are people on /a/, right now, that are forgetting their sage
I'm on Katakana myself right now slowly learning. I can read some characters instantly and others I have to think on. And it's not going to get any better.
If you were a classics major, you could have changed that. but no
>not reading scientific works from the 16th century in its original language
And a おちんちん to you too
Goddam I can't even read this basic shit anymore. I really have forgotten everything. Are the daily jap threads any good?
I like them. The vets are pretty helpful and theres plenty of good resources I've found through DJT.
We can't use bad words here, anon. It's full of little girls!
>not learning the more commonly spoken in the world, 中国語
Chinese is easier, too
>>there are people on /a/, right now, that are forgetting their age
Dunno, I haven't looked at them since they first started years ago. I just learned and practiced some hiragana and katakana and just found words and phrases popular enough to fuck around with my friends.
>wanting to watch a useless weeaboo language only good for their shitty cartoons
I thought it was cute
Do you seriously think it's a good idea to learn a shitty language only to consume masturbation material?
>learn nip only to read something made mostly for teens
>not learning the greatest language that ever existed and reading scientific works, documents, books etc. in latin
And if you say to someone that you learned japanese to read manga, they'll call you a weeb fag, tell them you know latin and read Newton's works in it's original language and you wake up with two girls in you bed.
>There are people on /a/ right now that never learned what sage is
90+% of current /a/ is normalfags and anime only fags that barely bother reading anything in English. This thread is testament to that. Now I'm depressed.
>not preparing yourself for the death of fansubbing
>there are people on /a/, right now, that don't know that sage doesn't rhyme with age
>There are people on /a/ that couldn't pass a hiragana captcha
Posting quality would go through the roof.
You've got a long way to go, friend.
>anime and manga
Does this count as trolling?
>Chinese is easier, too
Just say no to tonal languages.
>There are people on /a/ right now that never learned what sage is
somehow this is more terrifying
I'm a programmer. I will never need latin again, might as well learn japanese. Plus last time I checked bitches do not get wet over physics.
>there are people on /a/, right now, that think this thread should be here and don't want to it pushed back several pages so retards stop replying
Take it to /DJT/ you spastic
a chip ning nong ping pong to you as well
>hiragana chart in excel on second monitor
>just copy and paste them in the captcha
>shitpost on weebs
Leave that for /jp/.
Fucking invisible sage
I want Getter-fag to go
I've been dealing with hell captchas for the past few hours and it is not fun.
All the fun of kanji, without all the unnecessary hiragana/katakana.
Sounds like a rad deal to me お兄ちゃん
That's no excuse for not just entering it anyway
Or just look at the catalog and filtering by bump order
Joke's on you, you're just making things worse by replying, smartypants.
Is most manga in kanji then?
I know next to nothing about any of that shit.
You'd still be fucked on シツソン if they threw katakana into the mix.
I used to know how to read the kana symbols that looked like little sideways smiley faces.
Everyone would be fucked, captcha is tilted and not clear to read, so no one would post.
Except my post didn't bump the damn thread you silly bugger
Depends on the manga. Shounen shit will have more hiragana.
>there are people on /a/, right now, that don't know that sage doesn't rhyme with age
I thought it was pretty obvious
You enter it anyway, but when it's not visible, it's harder to count on others to remember to do so.
And of course you use the catalog, that goes without saying.
Not this fucking shit. Fuck you japan.
It did indirectly since you're baiting others to respond to your shit by replying in the first place.
>Do you seriously think it's a good idea to learn a shitty language only to consume masturbation material?
It's a good idea if I want to masturbate.
>tell them you know latin and read Newton's works in it's original language and you wake up with two girls in you bed.
Whew, good to know I dodged a bullet.
Haven't you heard? The cool thing to do now is to watch anime ironically and shitpost about it on /a/.
>there are people on /a/ right now
It's not too hard to recognize the differences once you deal with them enough times. Worse comes to worse you could just refresh until there weren't any of these fuckers.
It's not like it would be worse than I and l.
Look at that smug piece of shit.
l i j t f
I remember it took me years after learning those verbs to realize it was 下げ and not something related to wise old men.
The only letters I need to know are U, S, A, and sometimes C.
That's the same as 0 O, l I, rn m etc.
Yeah, I bet you are.
I and l is the only one that is as ridiculous.
Nice off topic thread.
It's a really serious problem when you can't even read the one hiragana that looks exactly like an "N".
I recognized 'a' and '-n' but that's it.
I's usually come with serifs in captchas so they're not too horrible.
You fucked up, anon.
p b d
So it literally means downvote.
But those are not English. Those are just Latin letters.
It's times like this I'm glad I can't read or write.
Oh shit お is 'o'. Well I did say I forgot it all.
Learning is for nerd
>learning useless latin instead of glorious Nipponese
Holy shit that was painful at least use hiragana.
Took me about 20 second to figure out what the hell you just said.
Is japanese a difficult language?
Fuck that system. I don't care about your emperors.
>learning useless Nippon instead of glorious Latin
O tempores, o mores!
That wouldn't make any sense though.
If you know any roman language, nope, easy as fuck.
Actually, it's easy for anyone. The only hard part is the Kanji system. Thankfully, you don't need to learn ALL of them and you eventually learn how to recognize certain characters.
It's mainly just the ass-backwards writing system since they were dumb enough to have a billion homophones for every word.
I had to put that through a romanizer and it still took me awhile
No, you're right. It's obviously Japanese that is the dead language and not Latin.
Enjoy conversing with some people from the Vatican I guess.
Sounds like shits son
>This is what people who don't know shit about japanese think.
Yeah but I'm more used to reading that than katakana.
Almost all Japanese you'll see in manga and the like is over 50% hiragana. Even news usually have at least 30% of hiragana. If you see a wall of Kanji you're most likely looking at Chinese.
>implying I don't know japanese
It's not my fault it was harder for you.
I might as well ask this here:
Assuming you study Anki diligently, how long would it take to acquire enough knowledge of the language to read, say, the average doujin on ExHentai with minimal dictionary use?
I know English, Spanish, French, and a little Portuguese, but I only self-taught the Portuguese, which was piss easy.
Anonymous, please. Lots of people learn Latin nowadays, interestingly even in the USA, and even if it were dead, the canon of Latin literature is more worthwile than what the still living, declining Japanese language can offer nowadays.
Oh by the way I already know the Kana
Half a yearish? It's so different from learning any other language that there's really no way to guess how long it'll take.
Well how much do you study each day?
>want to learn 11ese
>learn hiragana and katakana
>"This is fun!"
>get to kanji readings
>"Why the fuck is there multiple ways to read each thing, that's just goddamn retarded and abnoxious"
>build confidence after easily learning hiragana and katakana
>start on kanji today
>instantly feel like I've lost all grasp on language
>everything is overwhelming and full of terminology I don't understand
You realize you are posting this on a board which collectively knows more about the history of lolicon in Japan than anything before the year 1800, right?
The writing system is the easiest part of Japanese because of Kanji. Once you learn Kanji Japanese is very easy to decipher. The spoken language is much more difficult because of all the homophones. You have to pay attention to the context, it's not like the written language where you can quickly skim for kanji and instantly derive the gist of a sentence before digging in for nuance.
That's basically what happened to me. I can remember stuff like 'he' and 'ku' and 'a' and 'o' but that's about it.
>And it's not going to get any better.
Why do you believe that? You gave up already?
Huh, no. I just mean that there's a billion more things to learn.
As any newfriends looking to learn the language can probably tell from this thread, you better man the fuck up when you get to kanji or you'll never learn.
1: how many hours a week do you study?
2: how many Kanji do you know, and what is your rate of progress on Kanji acquisition?
>downvoting a perfectly constructive discussion post
Why would I do that?
The order of structuring your very thoughts to form a proper sentence is entirely different, and the way you talk about kanji is reminiscent of newfags in the DJT. Not saying it's extremely difficult, but the type of challenges it presents are far greater than trying to learn any indo-european language regardless of distance from your own.
Oh, then yeah. You're fucked. Good luck.
>Once you learn Kanji
That's the hard part.
At least with Chinese kanji memorisation is a bit easier.
but there's multiple readings for things in Chinese. Just be glad that we have an advantage as remembering Kanji is already half done for us.
Don't be a pussy, it only took me 4 years.
>learning nipnongese instead of something useful, like C or Assembly
Fuck kanji. The japs took my homeland glorious language and raped it as bad as they raped nanking.
>Live on an isolated island
>Inherit a whole bunch of characters which are incompatible with your spoken language
>Fit those round pegs into square holes for two thousand years because kids can pick up any esoteric language
>Have such a retarded oral language that romanji would literally produce thousands upon thousands of homophones.
Aaand that is about it
I'm learning something actually useful
get a load of this fa/g/
Going to take a stab in the dark and guess that's "Did you mean to say 平成弐拾陸年?" in old Nip?
Knowing Chinese, I wonder how fucked up old Japanese is compared to its equivalent in Chinese. 古文 is some really fucked up shit.
Man, why can't things be easier like korean?
The only real way to realize your waifu is through AI.
I'd rather learn all the reading for the kanji than have to speak Chinese.
Without people to learn Japanese you would have no translations for your precious anime and manga. You'd have to rely on Japanese people translating into English, and I don't think we need to give examples of why that's a bad idea.
Why not both?
>implying I don't already know c/c++
How about you go fuck yourself.
But if you learn programming, then you can work on a machine translator that actually works.
Fuck you China. Fuck your tonal shit. Just. Fuck.
Hiragana is easy as fuck, but its katakana that's really breaking my balls.
Just wondering, was that studying every day?
>mfw second and third tones sound almost the same
Who the fuck thought tones were a good idea?
>there are people on /a/ that only understand and speak english
>not naming it concernedLemon.png
You are the fucking plebbest cunt I have ever seen. Jesus fucking christ.
P.S. I don't read other languages because japanese and chinese both look fucking retarded and hard.
that seems rather excessive
and this is coming from someone who studies ancient chinese poetry.
can you communicate with C ?
I bet the people who struggle with Kanji just try to do rote memorization or something stupid like that. I learned my Kanji in batches of 10 - 15, mixed in with vocab lessons with plenty of compound words that used one or more of the kanji we were learning. We also had to learn to write them all by hand so we could memorize the radicals. After about 500 or so you have the radicals down and can easily acquire kanji from self study.
You would never encounter anything even close to that in normal conversation.
Not him, but if you plan on taking for years you can spend like 10 minutes a day on Kanji and you'll have time to spare.
>there are people on /a/ that can't even understand and speak english
Other than trying to read 草 and 行書, the grammar actually starts to make more sense. Fuck trying to read it though.
Shíshì shīshì Shī Shì, shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
Shì shíshí shì shì shì shī.
Shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
Shì shí, shì Shī Shì shì shì.
Shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì, shǐ shì shí shī shìshì.
Shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shíshì.
Shíshì shī, Shì shǐ shì shì shíshì.
Shíshì shì, Shì shǐ shì shí shì shí shī.
Shí shí, shǐ shí shì shí shī shī, shí shí shí shī shī.
Shì shì shì shì.
Holy shit fuck chinese so hard.
>Not aiming to learn every language currently spoken in the world
my brain is already full of latin and german
At least there are only four tones.
What? Third tone is the most distinctive one.
I'd honestly learn a new alphabet of 2000+ characters than spend hours looking for that one missing bracket
I mean four years obviously.
No, I spent maybe 6 hours a week on Japanese for four years and acquired all the kanji I needed to work through most stuff.
I thought the fourth tone is more distinctive.
I've been studying for a year and two months and I do that all the time. I also spend much less time studying than what the posts at the DJT's lead to believe is the average for anons, but much more time doing reading practice too.
>than spend hours looking for that one missing bracket
What kind of shitty IDE are you using?
>someone on /a/ studies ancient Chinese poetry
Am I fucking myself over by starting on Kanji using Kanji Damage?
This is a non-problem. Only a beginner would make that mistake in the first place and even if you did, modern IDEs do that for you.
>"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo"
Like English is any better to a foreigner
That still requires somebody who knows both Japanese and English.
It's kind of hard to make out when people speak so fast. The one saving grace of Chinese is how easy the grammar is.
Newsflash, /a/ is filled with giant fucking turbonerds.
The third tone fucking changes in the middle. It's different from every other tone.
>wanting to speak the gutter trash that Brazil speaks
>wanting to speak German, Russian or Swedish
Okay, so I have been using the Core 2K pack for Anki and I have been treated to relatively nonsensical imagaic memorization.
Should I learn more grammar first, or is this just how it is supposed to be?
His learning method is fine, but all of his "history lessons" are blatantly false. You probably don't care, but it really drives me crazy.
That would be ぶゎか ぶゎか, not buwaka buwaka
This is fucking heresy.
Except the Buffalo sentence is pure gibberish to even a native speaker.
Could someone give me a flowchart for what to learn for japanese? Do I really have to learn the alphabets+a few hundred kanji before I learn grammar?
It only took me two years to get to the point where I can read raw nukige, and I even translate it.
You can do it /a/, just take the classes.
>tfw when Taiwanese has 6 tones and I am unable to learn it
What country are you from?
I also learned Latin and it was fucking amazing, for 4 years during highschool.
You should learn the grammar for everything on the card you don't understand, which is usually nothing, or in some cases one thing. Also, reschedule words used in cards because the order is retarded sometimes.
>not wanting to speak all western languages
So is the stone lion poem. It ignores all semblance of grammar, for one.
If you think Japanese is bad in roman characters you don't even know want to know what Chinese would look like.
>Okay, so I have been using the Core 2K pack for Anki and I have been treated to relatively nonsensical imagaic memorization.
I take it you don't know shit about the language?
Do you want to learn Japanese, or a group of characters? Learn to say something and then see how it's written, dude.
Texas, USA. I enjoyed it while I was actively using it.
latin is compulsory in at least 1 school near me in NZ
didn't know you could do that with わ. Thanks for the help, anon!
You can learn to recognize words by sight without ever writing them. Studying kanji alone is demoralizing and the benefits aren't that great.
Or just do it later after you've got a bunch of vocab and grammar under control where it will actually benefit you. Nothing wrong with not being able to write for awhile if you can read.
Actually, girls who are interested in programming and science and who find guys who are also interested attractive.
The only catch is that you need to be attractive too.
Hiragana and then Katakana (realkana.com)
After that start reading a grammar guide like Tae Kim's Japanese guide, Genki, or Japanese the Manga way. Once you can form basic sentences download Anki and the Core 2k or 10k decks and start building vocabulary while you keep reading the grammar guides. Continue until you are fluent.
>Studying kanji alone is demoralizing and the benefits aren't that great
Said everyone that was new to the language
fucking optical illusion or some shit
No, just hiragana and katakana, plus vocabulary of course.
Kanji can come later. Learning with just the basics can get you somewhat far reading comprehension wise, like some kiddie 4komas, but these days a lot of shounen tier stuff is readable, too.
Ni3 xiang3 he1 ke3 le4 ma?
is it a mixture of half-width and shit?
>girls who are interested in programming and science
They don't exist.
You don't learn a language piecemeal, that's fucking retarded. You start out with basic grammar, rote memorization of a few sentences so you can get the grasp of the rhythm and cadence of the language. Then you look at how those basic sentences are constructed, the verbs and nouns that go into them, and how they look written out.
In the very beginning you use romaji, roman letters for the Japanese words, but you want to move on from that as soon as possible so you don't get used to it. You should begin learning kana in the first week, alongside your basic grammar, gradually replacing the romaji with hiragana.
It is important to practice writing them by hand, you will remember them much better this way. It also helps if you have a tutor or somebody who knows the language to critique your handwriting or you will never improve. Learning to write the kana and writ them properly speeds up the memorization process greatly and makes retention much higher. Learn hiragana first, then katakana.
Intensive kanji lessons should wait until you have kana down, but there's no harm in picking up the numbers and other really simple stuff along the way.
Always practice correct stroke order, and practice writing things out and speaking aloud, it helps you remember. Just reading stuff in a book or off a screen won't stay in your head as well.
>girls who are interested in programming and science and who find guys who are also interested attractive
B-but where's the verb?
>gutter trash that Brazil speaks
Those are fighting words. Portuguese is a fine language, much superior to it's dumbed down version, Spanish. Just because our country is populated by retarded monkeys doesn't mean our language is shit.
Its like the fucking Runescape of foreign languages
>Once you get this ability at level 40, continue until level 99
No. I didn't even apply the spaces like in >>100691167 If I did it would look as weird. Well not spaces but invisible characters or whatever they are.
>bothering to learn now
>not waiting a couple decade for when it can be beamed into your brain
What am I supposed to be seeing?
There's a point where it's useful, and learning chinaman english so you aren't scared of kanji isn't it.
All the guides I read had me memorizing the alphabets and then kanji. I never even got to words or grammar.
It took me two years to the point where I'd consider grinding kanji by themselves beneficial. And even then I'd extract all the kanji from something I struggled to read and only learn those, not random kanji from a list of what's most common.
80% of the kanji I actually recognize now are smut kanji, like body parts and sex actions.
The only important part of the language is who speaks it and what culture they bring. People don't just learn a language because it's structured in a superior way to other languages.
This sentence doesn't make any fucking sense.
>You can rush through a hiragana and katakana deck in a day and everything after that is just setting aside 10 minutes for the daily reviews.
>Do 50 kanji a day and only pay attention to the meanings, you will learn the readings far easier when you do vocab and can hear them in the context of actual sentences. You can easily finish the 2,136 jōyō in about 40 days and after that you just do the daily reviews.
>Start doing a vocab deck like Core10k. 25 cards a day while you're still doing new kanji and then push it up to 50 new cards once you are just doing kanji reviews. You will be learning about 1,500 words a month.
>Start reading through a few chapters a day of a grammar book like Genki. You will be finished in less than 40 days.
>Start mining your way through games or manga once you have a decent understanding of grammar.
This isn't hard at all. It takes a few hours a day and anyone can do it if they put their mind to it. If you're too apathetic or lazy to be able to study for several hours a day, which is practically nothing, then just take pills.
The whole "it's difficult" excuse for not learning Japanese is bullshit when you can easily get a huge chunk of language out of the way within a little over a month.
That's terrible. You should immediately practice the kana you know. Only shit guides rely on rote memorization for everything, that's not a good way to remember anything. You need to continually apply the language as much as possible. Speak it and write it every day if you can.
Holy shit, what the fuck did you read? Do you only know how to speak English?
>you can easily get a huge chunk of language out of the way within a little over a month
>this is what druggies actually believe
How am I supposed to make time for learning Japanese when I am watching 30 anime each season?
I can't remember. But yeah I speak only English fluently. I can program in 5 languages though if that means anything.
Those guides are stupid and you should take a class. If not, download either Genki or Yookoso, they're Japanese textbooks for English speakers.
If you're serious about learning Japanese, just take a class.
あ う え お い
あ う え お い
あ う え お い
く け か き こ
く け か き こ
く け か き こ
さ し そ す せ
さ し そ す せ
さ し そ す せ
を ゐ ゟ ゑ ㌔
を ゐ ゟ ゑ ㌔
を ゐ ゟ ゑ ㌔
>There are people in this board RIGHT NOW that don't know how to utilize this meemee correctly
If your going to steal /sp/ meemees at least use it correctly
I can barely do 20 kanji a day, fuck 50 of them.
Turn off the subs.
might want to brush up on your english too while you're at it
>50 Kanji a day
Holy shit son, I'm taking an upper-level Japanese Reading Development course in college and we only go through about 100 Kanji every other week, and even then long-term retention is an issue. That's pretty intense
>Studying kanji alone is demoralizing and the benefits aren't that great
It's better than studying with retards who give up at the first sign of trouble. God, I fucking hated taking Japanese courses. There's nothing worse than having to slow down for other people who don't care/don't get it.
I was very lucky that the first professor I had for Japanese was extensively knowledgeable AND polylingual (neither JP nor English being her first languages), and she took the time to not only carefully explain things like stroke order, she even provided imagery meanings/derivations for each of them.
> think, "hey, I can read that--"
> "oh, you mean able to read all of the 教育漢字
Anki is your friend.
That's because it's bullshit. 50 kanji a day and you'll be fucked if you can remember 5 of them next week.
>trying to learn japanese and anki is your main/only resource
That's the thing, we actually have had out fair share of great writers and poets, and Portuguese sounds really nice when spoken properly. Maybe I'm too biased because it's my native language, but it really is a good language for poetry and singing. It's extremely versatile because it allows fiddling with sentence order and it just sounds pretty when done right.
Forgive me, I was trying to think of a better word than "annoying", but the "a" stuck
Shut up mom!
This. Unless you're an autistic savant there's no way you're retaining 50 kanji a day.
>Bitch about how some of my favorite manga aren't being translated
>Know enough Moon that I could probably do it myself
I hate how lazy I am
>kanji for manko
Also, wow, sorry but I don't work on lewd nukige like that! I focus on happy stories with true love, incest, pregnancy, milf/shota/chirstmas cake, and things like that!
>spend hours looking for that one missing bracket
Put your computer back in the box it came in and have your mommy return it to the Apple store.
You're way too fucking retarded to use it.
but anon, I only have 5 hours of free time a day
what about muh animes?
Sure, I'd prefer Pepsi though.
Same here. I could probably do the translation but I can't typeset for shit, let alone clean or redraw the raws. There's no way I'd release a shitty scanlation typeset in MSPaint when I demand better of other scanlation groups, so I just do nothing.
>I can program in 5 languages though if that means anything.
Well, sadly it doesn't. Programming languages are pure logic, you don't get the fancy cover that is vocabulary, and in this case kanji.
Trying to memorize kanji before learning the language is stupid.
>Do you seriously think it's a good idea to learn a shitty language only to consume masturbation material?
That's the best reason to learn a new language.
Motivation is hard. That's why I only work on things that I absolutely love. Otherwise it takes 3 times as much effort.
If only people would commission nukige to be translated ;_; I'm so fucking tired of translating scat CG sets for mediocre pay.
Being productive and learning is more rewarding than watching the anime you set out to learn Japanese for.
I'm actually not kidding.
2,136 kanji is nothing, with or without drugs. Drugs don't even help you learn faster, they just make you less lazy.
There's nothing hard about Japanese. Building up your vocabulary is a bit of a grind and that's a long-term goal, but it's not difficult. Going through the jōyō though? It's incredibly easy.
It's baby shit, honestly. Assuming that you're not learning the readings and you're waiting to do that when you learn vocab then going through the kanji is nothing more than a slightly more different and abstract version of what they do to babies when they hold up the picture of the cow and ask the baby to say what it is.
>daughter who is also your aunt.png
>If you're serious about learning Japanese, just take a class.
Sure, if he wants to go at extra easy modo and never really be able to read anything that's not tailored for students before at least 3 years, that's a choice.
I almost have all the kana down perfectly, I challenge myself to read any I see now.
Now I just need yotsuba raws and work on my vocab while I begin on kanji.
Isn't pirating photoshop pretty easy? The hardest part is redrawing.
Pretty much the only thing keeping me from trying my hand at freelance translation is my lack of kanji recognition. I can read almost entire pages of untranslated manga, but it's the one or two kanji I don't recognize on every page or other page that keeps me from it, but really I just need to stop being a lazy shit and crack the kanji study tools I have at my disposal.
What went wrong?
Why is she so perfect?
Who X here?
Would you a X?
Everyday until X
You will never mumble mumble
Mumble mumble Prove me wrong - You can't
You have X seconds to mumble mumble - You can't
What does X's Y smell like?
How do we fix X?
X a Y
Which X would you Y?
/a/ suddenly hates x
Why is X the only studio willing to take risks?
About to watch X what should I expect?
Don't mind me, I'm just posting mumble mumble.
>There are people on /a/ right now who mumble mumble
What the fuck happened?
Mumble mumble when?
What's wrong with VLC?
Wake up, see this. What do?
I'll just leave this here
What's your excuse for not watching X
X will save anime / I'm here to save anime
What does /a/ think about X?
What's the most boring anime you've ever watched?
X is Love
Is X worth watching?
I had so high hopes for this series, but it just gets worse and worse with every new episode.
yfw x wins da y
Mumble mumble thread? Mumble mumble thread
What the fuck did I just watch?
X confirmed for Y
Why do you still watch moeshit?
She sees your dick
We want the X audience
Which anime has the worst fanbase?
Your waifu's face when X
Your waifu is now X, do you still love her?
Was it rape, /a/?
Weekend waifu drawthread
All your waifus are wonderful, /a/
You should be able to solve this
Let's get a X thread going
Do X if your waifu is posted
ITT: overrated shit
What an utterly useless power
Date-a-live? More like date a slut am I right?
I think it's sexy as fuck. It gave me a boner almost immediately after reading the filename.
>a little over a month
Enjoy your retention
If I follow this guys piece of shit guide, how long will it take for me to read an otomeshit VN?
Whoa whoa whoa. You get money out of that? Get me into the business, dude. I'm poor.
>50 kanji a day and you'll be fucked if you can remember 5 of them next week.
What's your learning method? Do you just look at the kanji, write them a million times in some notebook, and then throw it out the window and never look at them again?
Of course you won't remember anything like that. Hell, if you have the time and the patience then you could do 100 or 200 kanji a day. As long as you're willing to do that massive pile of 800+ reviews then you will retain it. This is the whole point of spaced repetition systems like Anki. It just forms a schedule of bombarding you with reviews until you retain it.
You can't remember anything by just doing it once or twice. You need to see it continuously throughout the week in the form of constant reviews.
There are plenty of typesetting/image editing types out there that want to work on manga, you just have to find them.
>Assuming that you're not learning the readings
So you don't actually learn the kanji. You couldn't use them in any practical manner, you can just point them out on a card and give one or two meanings they have. That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. Memorizing kanji meanings before learning anything about the language is ridiculous and you will retain nothing useful. Hell without even learning the radicals or readings you have nothing useful to retain in the first place. What horseshit.
Why not just read it in moon then. When I started to be able to do that it was like breaking free from the chains that were binding me.
I finished up Tae Kim's guide and I've just been mining manga for vocab since then. 1,624 active vocab words in muh deck. Should I start learning Kanji? Should I do it J->J?
Dont listen to >>100693981 .
I took a course in python 101 at my university last year, and it was hell. It is a language. There is a lot to keep track of . Props to programming bro for being able to keep track of that shit times 5.
>I learned Spanish to talk to the people who shit on my lawn
>I didn't learn Japanese to enjoy Anime, manga, games, doramas, websites, and everything else
Japanese is like the 7th most spoken language in the world, as if that mattered, and has plenty of possible and attractive applications. Some people don't get that.
Nice "Japanese" there pal.
>caring this much about "bait" threads
>being so new that he still thinks the whole point of 4chan is "not getting trolled to prove you're an oldfag"
I can't even use shitty photoshop knockoffs, the UI is too complicated to bother with. There's no way I could handle actual photoshop and its magical tools.
I know, I just can't use them. There's not exactly a curriculum out there that teaches you this shit, you have to do it on your own, and I am not artistically inclined at all except when it comes to language.
>some kind of henpecked husband
I really hope you didn't translate that.
This is bullshit. It's not difficult, it's time consuming. You need a lot of motivation, and if you lack that you aren't going to go anywhere. Not everyone has a few hours to put off and study everyday.
All you need is one fucking font, and cleaning is easy too. I literally learned how to clean in 2 hours.
> there are people procrastinating in this thread right now instead of doing their reviews
It's getting late, Anon...
The hell you talking about, man? Sorry, but I'm not a teenager. I don't care about telling people how I'm better than them.
Meaning, when I said it doesn't mean anything I meant it wouldn't help him understand how to learn other natural languages, not that I'm better than him because his efforts in learning to program were in vain.
>find translation group
>ask if they want to release a manga you're willing to translate
>repeat until you find one that says yes
If all else fails make a thread on /a/ saying you want to translate a manga and ask for typesetters. /a/ often translates manga on it's own as a impromptu group.
Yes, late. Time for bed. I can do it tomorrow.
>Hell, if you have the time and the patience then you could do 100 or 200 kanji a day.
No you couldn't. You would not be able to retain even 10% of those kanji after a single day. It would take at least a week to gain basic usage of at last 50. But your method of "learning" is nothing of the sort, you just memorize meanings and claim you have "learned" the kanji despite not knowing how it is read or written, or any words it is used in.
I was translating within two years of my first class. It's all about effort in the end, but classes keep you motivated and busy in the beginning and make sure you don't wind up with embarrassing gaps in your basic knowledge.
It slows me down too. Nukige is nice because I can copy/paste unknown kanji in an instant. With images it's much harder and I have to use a combination of two sites to really get it.
I get like $30 for an image set that's 30-50 pages. And each page has an average 300 characters on it. In an ideal world (ie, if I was working with professionals instead of amateurs) I'd be getting $120-$150 per set.
I wouldn't even be doing it if I could get paid for the nukige I already translated. It's a $4700 payday but I can't get the company that owns the license to respond to my emails.
>implying I didn't review already
Protip: Most scanlation groups will gladly pick up a manga if you offer raws. Give them a translation and they'll be even more willing to, as long as they actually like it.
Find a group that's not working on a million titles and shoot them an email. Some even mention if they're taking requests or not.
Why are you trying to learn the language 100x faster than natives do?
This thread has inspired me to try again, but I'm gonna take it real slow so I don't burn myself out this time.
>Japanese is like the 7th most spoken language in the world
Confound it, it's true! It's the ninth.
So I know second, third, and ninth. Better than expected.
You can learn all of hirigana and katakana in a few days at most.
I'm surprised there are some who haven't already.
You're right and you're wrong.
Programming languages are more than just logic. There is definitely an equivalent to grammar and vocabulary in programming. Programming in different languages can require an entirely different way of thinking. It can be a real struggle.
But it's nothing compared to learning a linguistic language. At all.
>With images it's much harder and I have to use a combination of two sites to really get it.
Kanjitomo is your friend.
>there are people who still don't know about the magic that is kanjitomo
That's what it was in the script. I'm not going to overtranslate a language to pander to casuals.
English is first you dipshit. The studies saying chinese is first are fucking lies.
So basically you're telling me to just give up on every thread on /a/?
I have the fucking search tool built into my FF. It has been my friend for a while. It's things like manga pages and video games (from which I cannot copy-paste) that fuck me up hard.
Still, I have played entire games and fully understood the story and most of the characters without any sort of translation, assistance, or research.
On the offhand, do you happen to know any apps you can get where you can write the kanji and it searches the dictionary for you? That would be excellent for my tablet, and a few people in my JP classes had things like that, but I never really bothered to ask at the time.
I bet Obama did it.
> there are people on this board that watch cartoons regularly
Attempting to memorize the readings for each individual kanji is insane and fairly useless. You're trying to remember huge amounts of completely out of context information for each kanji and there's very little reward for it.
Do you think that you're some kind of computer that can open up some random Japanese book, look at a bunch of kanji, and immediately your brain will pull up all of the different on'yomi and kun'yomi reading combinations for you? It doesn't work like that, and even if it did then it's still useless because you don't know what the words actually mean, even if you can guess at how they're read.
This is why it's best to learn readings in the context of vocabulary, otherwise you're just wasting your time. Learning the meanings is helpful because it familiarizes you with kanji in a very quick and easy way, allowing you to then move onto vocab study, see familiar kanji and have a rough idea of what they usually mean, and then easily form mnemonics to aid with memorizing vocab. It eliminates the "moon rune syndrome" that westerners seem to have where they can't distinguish between multiple different kanji and it all just looks like crazy scribbles.
That's the only point of doing individual kanji study and that's why it's so easy and takes very little time. The real time consuming aspect is learning vocab. If you're pissing away years on kanji and trying to memorize all of these different readings without the context of vocab then it's going to take you a decade to get any where.
Chinese is first by population I think (like that fucking matters with all of the different dialects that border on entirely different languages), English is definitely first by number of countries.
Jisho lets you search by radical, you know. If you know the radicals you can find any kanji by sight alone.
Doesn't that mean that you fucked your grandmother?
I speak English and French. I can read and write French, but I've been learning for damn near 7 years now and it's still hard. How the fuck do you faggots learn Japanese so easily? Or do you all lie about your proficiency? After all these years of French lessons, learning at the level of native speakers I still make silly mistakes in my French, although spoken French is quite top-tier. I demoralizes me when I consider learning Japanese because I dont want to embark on a 10 year journey to sound like a faggot gaijin.
I-I'll learn moon one day!
> using romaji
brb killing myself after wasting 30+ hours manually looking up kanji
As penance, I'm going to dedicate time to kanji learning every day from now on, since I'll have at least 12 free hours a week now.
>memorizing individual kanji at all instead of just going straight into compounds
Oh, damn it. That's the solution. I was thinking hard about it.
>Not doing your reviews first thing in the morning
Responsibilities first, fun later. Didn't your parents teach you anything?
English is by far number one when you include people who learn as a Second and Third language. Almost no one learns chinese as a second language.
ｔｈｅｒｅ ｐｅｏｐｌｅ ｏｎ ／ａ／
>English is definitely first by number of countries.
What a useful criterion!
Good luck. And remember, the secret is stubborn, dumb persistence and discipline. If you start to procrastinate you've already lost.
Actually, I think if you include the enormous amount of English speakers in China, English comes out on top as the most spoken.
You missed the part where it takes less than two months to have a basis to more easily learn vocabulary. That is all it does. Well that and you can write them.
>Attempting to memorize the readings for each individual kanji is insane and fairly useless.
Except that's what it means to learn the kanji you immense tool. If you can't read them or write them out, you have not learned them. Not in any sense have you learned them. That's why your "learn 100 kanji a day" is complete horse shit. All you're doing is word association, you aren't learning shit.
Real learning for kanji involves accompanied vocab lessons, writing practice, and integration with your daily writing and reading practice (where you actually read the sentence aloud and retain the information, not just mindlessly parroting sounds or skimming for information).
but can you kiss like a french
It is, considering a huge reason why people learn a foreign language is for travel. You aren't ever going to talk to 99% of China's population anyway.
Yes, yes it does. She's a cutie.
No I'm a super poorfag, I don't know about fancy tablets or apps. I know the Nintendo DS has something like that, but I heard it sucked. Maybe you could use something like Kanjitomo.
>learning a kanji without learning at least the common readings
What's the fucking point? Reading without being able to read aloud seems dumb.
I remember seeing a thread like this a year and a half ago. I've been learning moon ever since. Just give that shit the time it deserves a day, and you're golden.
Also, please don't do drugs.
rate my shinnyou radical, nerds
2/10 bad stroke control and form.
> visit this oriental food place fairly often
> run by this old Japanese lady
> kind of build up a rapport with her/practice Japanese on her whenever I get milk coffee
> she's only like fifty, not too bad looking
> one day she acts a little weird
> as she's giving me change she holds onto the bill and looks right into my eyes, smirking
> finally lets go and winks
Wh-what should I do /a/
Damn it anon, I didn't plan to because it was my days off.
3 for effort
>Not worth it
You just didn't realize its benefits.
>Fit those round pegs into square holes for two thousand years because kids can pick up any esoteric language
For a part of its history, Japanese was written with just kanji (which came into use around the 5th-6th centuries in Japan) that represent sounds. It later evolved into katakana and later hiragana.
Manyogana (万葉仮名), that is. Nihon shoki (日本書紀) and Manyoshu (万葉集) were both written with it.
Read this page over the charm of kanji if you want to understand why its beneficial and interesting to the language.
I'm pretty sure google's IME has some kind of function like that. I have a denshi jisho though so I never bothered to look.
>still can't get women
being a NEET is suffering
baa-chan ni chinko agero
I think you know. She helps you with moonrunes, you give her the D. Perfect relationship.
>How the fuck do you faggots learn Japanese so easily?
>watch the minimum 2400 hours of anime to post on /a/ instead of lurking
>take a few years of japanese class
>grind kanji properly so you can read better fap material
>spend 2-3 hours daily on it since it's your hobby
It's not hard to learn something if you spend 2+ hours on it every day. Even just watching anime helps a little. I promise you if you put that much time into learning French, you'd be as good as a native.
>she's only like fifty
中出 this looks so much like a name. Please tell me there is are sadistic Japanese parents out there who did it.
>A baby boy was killed after a school girl found him alone in a lift and then allegedly thew him off a balcony.
CCTV footage in the lift shows as his mother was wheeling out his small green bike from the lift the doors abruptly shut.
>Seconds before the 10-year-old girl entered the lift and picked up Yuanyuan as the door started to close as his frantic mother sets the bike down.
>The grainy black and white footage shows the schoolgirl, who is wearing a backpack, holding the child for a few seconds before slamming him into the ground.
>As he struggles to get back up she repeatedly kicks him, hits him and stamps on him.
>When the lift doors open on the 25th floor she is seen grabbing Yuanyuan off the metal floor and pushing him out.
Chinese school girls aren't very cute.
>The bodies of 21 babies, some with hospital identification tags around their tiny ankles, washed ashore on a river in eastern China and two mortuary workers were detained for allegedly dumping them.
>News footage Tuesday showed the babies — at least one of whom was stuffed in a yellow plastic bag marked "medical waste" — strewn along a dirt riverbank near a highway overpass. A few wore diapers. All were caked in mud
Chinese women shitting in the street:
Chinese woman shitting in the street while concealing
Woman finishes shitting alone on subway platform within 10 seconds
I can read them without getting mixed up, but FUCK trying to write those.
Unfortunately I work and working on cards is a great time waster on the bus.
The most interesting part of this was the second part, I feel like the first part at least is something anyone learning Japanese will eventually figure out on their own.
>there are people who don't even know the chemical structures of all 20 major amino acids.
oh wait... I'm the freak here, guess making that statement was rather AUTOSTIC.
>there are people on /a/ right now who don't speak Latin and think that learning some chink language makes them cultured
Too pointy. It's completely dislocated from where it should be on the writing space. That little line being parallel with the extremity of the lower line is in very poor taste. I don't think you did this in 3 stroke like you should.
>take a few years of japanese class
>not studying on your own for a year and testing into fourth year instead
That was the joke.
Chemistry blows man. Fuck that shit.
I studied that shit at uni and couldn't hear any difference between the first and second tones, but for some reason my marks don't reflect that at all.
>sadistic Japanese parents out there who did it.
Oh god, imagine. Imagine if they used the readings "Chuu" and "shuutsu."
"Oh my god, is your name Nakada--"
"Chuushuutsu. Please kill me."
My japanese sensei used to hit on me all the time, in the middle of class. It was awkward as hell but she went easy on me for speaking portions so it was nice. It was in the early morning, too, so she'd trick me into saying lewd things in front of everyone.
I know that second kanji has something to do with birth since it was used as a tag on a site I once used for doujins involving childbirth
shit advice, I watch tons of anime and they don't speak like normal Japanese people do. They all speak in tropes and shit.
Hurf hurf tadaima
but those at least have differences that aren't "ANGLE IT A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAY"
how are you guys typing those chinese characters? they aren't on my keyboard (us layout)
Fuck French. I studied in a french institute for 15 years and I still had a ton of grammatical errors, my wording was poor, and I had trouble expressing myself verbally. Every single class was in French, my homework was in French, there were a ton of kids and teachers who only spoke French. All that exposure and I still can't watch French movies without subtitles, or read books without a dictionary. And fuck all those argo words, they sound terrible and I can't possibly learn them all without living in France.
And in the end I stopped using it once I got out of high school. I don't even buy all those French translated manga because I fucking hate the language.
Fuck you France.
Google Japanese IME
>not using GNU/Linux with ibus and Anthy
Not sure about the others, but I don't, at all. This is fucking hell sometimes and my mind hurts a LOT after I finish writing 20 kanji, each one of them 20 times, while trying to make sure the proportions stay consistent. Not counting the other 1~2 hours I spend doing my vocabulary reps, and the other 2~3 hours I spend reading VNs, and 1 hour watching anime, and also half an hour adding cards to my vocab deck (I build one based on the words I encounter which I don't know in VNs). Not only that, but no matter how I try, my grammar is still mediocre~half-decent. Maybe I should try thinking harder.
I could tell those all apart easily.
People don't usually learn to the point of being as good as you're imagining. They just learn enough that they can read and comprehend spoken Japanese.
I find they much harder to differentiate than ツシ. I don't think I've had problems with them after like, 6 months of studying.
I like the use of Kamille here.
You missed the one where a 3 year old gets hit by a car and no one stops to help her as she lay dying and got run over a few more times.
I use this.
Tu vie ou, maintenant? Moi je vie en Quebec donc je suis pas mal force a parler francais dans ma vie quoitidien. Je peux regarder des filmes francais sans sous-titres, mais lire des romans qui sont ecrites pour les adultes, c'est le dictionnaire pour moi.
I had to take two years regardless to get my degree, so I took the easiest two years. Also, my first "year" was an accelerated summer course with 10 weeks of 3 hour classes every single day. It was fun.
I didn't say one should watch anime to learn Japanese. I'm saying it helps. And it's how lots of /a/nons get started.
natural talent>hard work
>have shitty french lessons for 12 years
>learn and retain absolutely nothing
Unfortunately I can't magically develop natural talent, so I'll have to keep going through this scheme until I learn the language.
>makes them cultured
Who the fuck ever claimed that?
This. It's great being naturally good at things (although language is not one of them for me).
And you aren't ever going to talk to people on Barbados, Jamaica, Nepal, Nigeria, Mauritius, Philippines (maybe if you want underage prostitutes), Singapore, South Africa.
It has nothing to do with birth, birth is 生. It means to leave or take out, depending on whether it's being used transitively or intransitively.
A surprising amount go and find themselves some deliciously underage looking 3d pixiv artist. No one who makes it is just in it for the fap.
>Real learning for kanji involves accompanied vocab lessons, writing practice, and integration with your daily writing and reading practice
Alternatively, you could just do a vocab deck and mine through reading material that you actually enjoy, rather than sitting in some classroom for years and getting jewed out of all your money while your teachers stretches out the learning material with mind-numbing exercises and writing drills for as long as they possibly can.
What do you think happens when you learn new vocab through a vocabulary deck? You attempt to read the example sentence and on the answer side you see the english definition and translation, the reading written out with furigana for the kanji used within the vocab, you hear an audio recording of both the word and the sentence, etc.
It's the most efficient way to learn the readings and actual vocab, but the best part is that you don't lose thousands of dollars by wasting your time in one of those "Japanese courses" that colleges create to con stupid weeaboos out of their money.
This is the fate of all anglo canadians. I've yet to meet an anglo-canadian with decent french that lives in Ontario or BC.
Can someone explain to me why these are pronounced the same and the difference they make?
It means to come inside. 中出し should have been the first thing you learned reading manga.
Shounen Jump pls go.
japonés una mierda
Although I think one can also learn kanji by writing them out (without need to pay for classes since jisho is there for you), I agree with you that the best way to learn vocabulary and even incorporate kanji into your daily life is through an anki deck for that purpose (be it a core deck or a custom one). However, I am considering taking classes so I can ask the teacher some questions regarding grammar and perhaps improve my oral skills.
Again: you're not learning shit because your learning is not comprehensive. It's rushed and focuses on just getting the barest gist of meaning and then moving on. You don't practice writing or speaking or integrated reading/writing for kanji and vocab. You don't do composition or oral presentations, you don't do conversation practice, you don't practice stroke order or learn the radicals alongside new kanji.
You just memorize meanings devoid of any proper context and call that "learning" a kanji despite not actually learning anything useful with respect to the actual language.
Vocabulary decks similarly will not teach you anything besides bare memorization if you do not incorporate them into daily reading, speaking, and composition practice.
You people who do nothing but stare at a screen all day and think you've learned jack shit are an embarrassment. I'd wager you couldn't even hold a simple conversation with a native speaker.
FUCKING THIS. Holy shit, I was an enthusiastic scholar in my youth, so when they told me "You'll need French to get a job!" I worked my ass off at it, now I never use it and hardly even remember the time I wasted in those classes that could have been put toward something useful.
I could make a list as long as this thread with shit the Chinese do and I still wouldn't be halfway finished.
No real difference. I see the top one used a lot more though.
>not learning both
step it up
> I agree with you that the best way to learn vocabulary and even incorporate kanji into your daily life is through an anki deck for that purpose (be it a core deck or a custom one).
No, the best way is by reading A LOT and writing SOME every single day. Even better if you can get a conversation partner.
Do take the class. It makes everything so much easier.
Sometimes when words are formed their syllables change sound. So Ko+Koe = Kogoe(小声). The same thing might happen with a word that begins with a ち or a つ. For example, you have 身近 formed from 近い, so 身近 should be written as みぢか and not みじか. In the same way you have 気づく formed from つく so you can't write it as 気ずく.
I wish anki gave stroke order.
Is there a good resource for kanji itself?
You're deluding yourself if you think most /a/nons feel the need of being able to keep up a conversation with a native speaker. I'd wager most people here want to learn the language for the sake of their hobbies, and believe it or not, staring at a screen for 1~2 hours while learning a bunch of new words everyday CAN accomplish that (though I do believe that kanji should be learned separately).
>I'd wager you couldn't even hold a simple conversation with a native speaker.
I-I can ask where the toilet is, at least.
Why do you assume no one who does RtK does the rest of that? We're a vicious community that rends the best method for things by the sheer fact that we're not banned for disagreeing with some fuckwith who happens to have 100000 posts.
Vocab decks just keep the information in your head until you need it, which isn't often enough for it to stick otherwise.
Nobody uses the lower one.
You expect me to respond in French? Well fuck you.
I lived in South America all my life, so outside of school I just spoke Spanish. But still, I should be more fluent after all those years.
Well as long as you like it I guess you'll do alright. Being surrounded by frenchies will make it easier.
>(a typical exchange: Student: What does "ohayoo" mean? Teacher: It means "good morning. Student: That's not what my girlfriend said.)
Nigger, most of my vocabulary comes from anime. You only have to not be retarded to think お兄ちゃん means the same as あなた, etc.
Thanks. I'm sure I'll understand this more as I start learning Kanji.
Fat load of use your kanji is then if I can ask where the toilet is without even knowing any kanji.
You can't hold a simple conversation because you are inept at the language. You have a fragmented half-assed mastery of kanji and vocabulary because you did nothing but stare at a computer screen and learned it all piecemeal instead of in a steady stream. Your reading and retention of Japanese is forever stunted below anybody who actually bothered to learn the language properly.
Dunno about everyone else, but i do desire to visit japan one day to visit shrines and stuff, so I do need to know how to communicate.
My only worry is that I've learned at this point more than 1100 kanji and my vocabulary is (supposedly) at 1k words at the moment, so I feel like I'll end up seeing a lot of things I already know in the beginning of the course. Maybe I'll learn a lot of different things, though, since my learning methods are completely different from those in classes.
For you who just memorise without proper context. How do you differentiate between 速い and 早い?
Just use English.
>. If you're too apathetic or lazy to be able to study for several hours a day
Shit nigger, some of us have to work. We don't have hours everywhere to study for porn an cartoons.
Did you read genki or tae kim? Then you've been over everything the class will cover.
I hope you find a good tour guide, then
じ(ji) is the voiced version of し(shi)
ぢ(ji) is the voiced version of ち(chi)
If you go by kunrei-siki rules, you could call them じ(zi) and ぢ(di).
They're different letters, just sound sort of the same. When you form compound words, sometimes you need to change an unvoiced consonant to a voiced consonant (by adding the two dots).
Protip, you don't really know that many kanji and words. Regardless of what Anki tells you.
Goddamn I hated my french lessons, everybody did. We had absolutely no application for it whatsoever anyways, so what was the point?
And the grade 8 trip was always one to Montreal, which they always dangled in front of us as incentive to learn french more, but they cancelled it right at my year, fuck them.
I'm not that anon who said kanji should be learned via vocabulary. I do write them everyday and take a look at example sentences for each one of them I'm not familiar with, and I also talk with japanese speakers in a regular routine. Relying in a single method is a really bad idea, so I actually bother doing other things, but in no way anon is required to learn kanji with all those accompaniments you're listed. Also, there is no "proper way". Just that some methods are faster than others, and such methods really depend on each person.
It's the same word and the context is pretty obvious after about 3 sentences of each.
The Kanji are actually irrelevant for this. I'll rewrite it in Kana for you.
Sometimes when words are formed their syllables change sound. So Ko(こ)+Koe(こえ) = Kogoe(こごえ). The same thing might happen with a word that begins with a ち or a つ. For example, you have みぢか formed from み and ちかい, so みぢか should be written as みぢか and not みじか. In the same way you have きづく formed from き and つく so you can't write it as きずく even though the pronunciation would be the same.
Nah, I intend to be able to move without help.
I don't plan to do this for at least 5 to 7 more years anyways.
>vocab decks just keep the information in your head
No they don't. Rote memorization is a animal trick. Even parrots can recite your precious vocabulary back to you, and some birds probably can memorize words faster than you can. You aren't learning shit if you aren't getting grammatical context and aren't practicing it in your speaking and writing. A vocab list is useful for a reference sheet at best, the actual learning comes from application in reading and writing. Composing sentences and practicing speech are a hundred times more effective for remembering Japanese than staring at a screen.
Christ, yes. I haven't even put any effort towards studying Japanese and I'm pretty sure I'm about as good at it as French, despite having taken the latter all through school. And I've actually made use of the former.
We went to Montreal and the only places we interacted with people were all English. I tried speaking French to people and it just turned out awkward.
The point I'm getting at is there is no way to actually learn 100 kanji in a single day like he claims. There is no way he can retain that many kanji even in a week. He's spouting bullshit.
Please shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.
>Composing sentences and practicing speech are a hundred times more effective for remembering Japanese than staring at a screen.
For you it is, but everyone learns differently.
I've read Tae Kim, but didn't bother with Genki. Is it worth my time, or is the former guide more than enough?
Regarding words, I agree, but as for kanji it doesn't work the same way, since I've accidentally learned them in a roundabout way. I used to have a kanji damage deck, and I went to travel once and my reps accumulated so I gave up on the method, and switched for handwriting. And I must admit it works much better than starting at the screen, since it makes me fall asleep very frequently.
A similar thing happened to me with the grade 6 trip, but it wasn't related to French.
French classes were a joke too, especially the further in we got. By Grade 12, students weren't even making an effort to speak to the teacher in French, even though it was Immersion, the highest level you can get.
I consider myself better at Japanese than French and I didn't start studying it until post-Secondary. I can still listen to French, but I doubt I could read it very well at this point.
>there are people on /a/ right now who aren't learning Japanese RIGHT NOW
What with the establishment of the DJT threads, you have no decent excuse to not be doing it. It's what's going to be separating the wheat from the chaff in the time to come. You can already see it starting to happen and use of Japanese has grown on the board from what it used to be.
Nobody learns by rote memorization except autists. It is a shit tier way for normal people to learn because it associates the words and kanji with nothing except lists.
That's true. I hate people who think this and it's really stupid to just say "HEY GUYS I'VE LEARNED ALL KANJI IN 2 MONTHS BY USING RTK AND CORE 2K, AND NOW I'M READING VNs AFTER 6 MONTHS OF STUDYING!" I seriously wonder how much shit they make up to feel better about themselves.
>Ko(こ)+Koe(こえ) = Kogoe(こごえ)
Where the fuck does the ご come from?
Can you go fap so you're a little nicer? I feel like even if I agreed with the small parts that aren't opinion and vitriol, you'd just be more contrarian to make up for it.
Here's my honest opinion on the whole moon speak thing.
If you're in fact a die-hard otaku at heart who loves reading unedited versions of manga, anime, or VN, then learning moon speak is definitely something worth doing. But some people don't here don't value those as much as others.
Yeah, learning Japanese is nice but there really is no point other than to satisfy all your otaku desires. I read manga and VNs as a side hobby but not to the extension that I would want to learn the language for the sole purpose of experiencing those things fully.
That's just my opinion, now if you'll excuse me, I need to get my riot shield for all the hate I'm about to receive.
I've spent 4 hours learning japanese today, anon. Why would I be doing it at night? The earlier, the better.
>You don't do composition or oral presentations, you don't do conversation practice
The first problem with this is that you assume that anyone here even gives a shit about talking to Nips. There are probably less five people in this entire thread who are interested in Japanese for anything other than consuming Japanese products.
The second problem though is that you're yet again wasting your money for a subpar education. Oh boy, paying thousands of dollars for conversation practice where you get to talk to a bunch of weeaboos who are equally as inept as you are. If you really want to talk to Japanese people and improve your conversation skills then the best idea is to get out of that classroom as fast as you possibly can and start practicing with actual Japanese natives over skype. There are thousands of them, they love to do language exchange practicing, and it's free. They're every where. You will learn far more from that than you would have learned from the weeaboo circlejerk that is Japanese college courses. What you're doing right now is nothing more than the blind leading the blind.
>Vocabulary decks similarly will not teach you anything besides bare memorization if you do not incorporate them into daily reading
>if you do not incorporate them into daily reading
Anyone teaching themselves Japanese through programs like Anki is already spending hours on "daily reading practice" each day, but they don't call it daily reading practice because they're actually having fun and they're reading through games, manga, or VNs that they love. It might be hard for you to understand, but there are many ways to learn a language that don't involve sitting in a classroom and reading painfully generic practice stories off a worksheet.
Some people in DJT threads are fucking annoying though. It's like they think I want to learn Japanese for the poetry.
It's called 連濁 or the voicing of consonants.
G is the voiced sound of K.
It's not about unedited things, it's about reading things that will probably never be translated.
こ becomes ご. It's not that complicated. Get used to it cause that's pretty much the standard in jukugo. I'd say that half of them have some form of alteration like that. It flows easier during speech like that if you want to know why they do it.
When you make compound words, you (sometimes) voice the first consonant of the second word.
I just want you to be more cultured that your typical autistic otaku. If you can't culture yourself, then you can't be expected to be respected, or respectable, and that's unacceptable.
>The point I'm getting at is there is no way to actually learn 100 kanji in a single day like he claims.
I agree, unless you're some kind of savant.
>There is no way he can retain that many kanji even in a week.
Hey, that's 15 a day. That's doable. I did 15 a day when I had the motivation, and I'm pretty sure I still remember them.
>I was translating within two years of my first class
Just out of curiosity, how many classes have you taken on Japanese?
Why doesn't the japanese language use spaces?
Thanks for your opinion.
I've never heard of someone putting in years of work at Japanese only to say "oh wait, I don't really care as much as I thought I did". If you don't have some kind of passion inside of you, you are going to fizzle out after a point.
How long would it take me to read something like Shinsekai Yori?
I could live without learning Japanese if I only watched anime and read translated VN.
I can't live without knowing Japanese after tasting the forbidden fruit that is nukige (porn VN). Holy shit, EVERY kink is covered, multiple times. The art+voice acting+writing is SUPERB. Since learning Japanese my fap session quality has skyrocketed.
Also it's nice to watch anime raw when subs are slow, or read manga that's untranslated.
Never understood the とけ here.
You keep calling things different things so you sound right, but haven't really said anything of any value at all. It's disheartening to know that someone so skilled at moonspeak such as yourself is what natives are forced to experience.
I used to care about talking with japanese people and learning about their culture, but throughout my one year of self-studies, only my desire to read untranslated VNs is left. The worst part is that the harder works will take me many more years to read decently ;_; it's kinda disappointing... but since I've been through so much, I can't give up now.
because it takes up space
Please stop putting your foot in your mouth.
Yes those ways of learning are helpful, but everyone works better in different styles of learning.
That thread is terrible though.
I think you can't really say whether something is worth it or not until you've done it yourself and have experienced the gain. Learning Japanese will give you the opportunity to enjoy a lot of other things that you probably had no previous knowledge or interest in. You can't preemptively really say that it's not worth it until you've done it.
>Nobody learns by rote memorization except for every single person in Asia
I don't hate you anon. As you said, there's no point for me in learning Japanese other than satisfying my otaku desires. Well, I personally enjoy learning the language in itself too, it's pretty fun.
I read some news article that said people learn better at night.
To do something in advance.
Go ahead and quick now, basically.
That's the sunken cost fallacy, you know.
I'd say 5 years minimum. It's pretty high level.
First year uni classes over one summer, then another three quarters for the second year of classes. Then I spent a year NEET with 3+ hours every day reading raw nukige and watching another 2 hours of anime.
The course websites are here:
I did up to 2C.
Nukige is really fucking amazing and is worth learning Japanese in itself.
Spaces are used if it's something like a kana-only book for children.
But with kanji+kana, it's usually pretty visually clear where words end and begin. Usually.
やめておく (infinitive) > やめておけ (imperative) > やめとけ (informal)
Not exactly, because my desire to be reading them is still here. I have no reason to abandon it, because I know that people who also shared the same desire as me had to go through this long road. For me, to know that I'll be able to reach what I desire after so much hard work is more than enough to motivate me to go keep going.
How do nips understand what each other are saying?
All this sounds really confusing.
My goal in Japanese is just to be able to read the average manga.
That's a major purpose that kanji serves. Spaces would be stupid.
>That thread is terrible though.
Not him but agreed. Fucking anki-addicts terrified of just taking a course in uni. It's just a circlejerk by this point.
I don't understand your question. You can't differentiate between the sound that こ and ごare supposed to represent?
Haha fucking glorious!!!
Context. Which is a really amazing thing because I still watch shit and while understanding all the words, I wonder how the fuck anybody understands what anyone means with all their vague bullshit.
It really fucking is. For all you /a/nons worrying about strokes and characters, wait until you learn grammar itself. Oh, and particles.
I think that anon should keep their foot in their mouth.
>How do nips understand what each other are saying?
They don't, they just nod politely and never make eye contact.
Right? My dream job now is to run my own nukige localization company. JAST and MangaGamer are awful.
Same way we understand what is being said in English.
Eh, I'm relying on anki myself, though I'd take a class if there was a school that offered one...
I learn better in a school environment.
It's not that bad usually. It has a low-tide and high-tide for shitposting levels and a lot of time a lot of really good discussion happens and you'll be able to pick up on a lot and get a lot of help. Even I'll get tired of it every once in a while but when I come back I'll always find it in a acceptable condition. The English-only community seems far worse if you ask me and I hardly like to venture out into /a/ at this point because you guys just don't understand things to really enjoy them correctly, as silly as that may sound.
What are your opinions on classes as a whole, /a/? I see half of the people in this thread shitting on them, and the other half praising it. How worthy are they?
Telepathy. They are bred to be so part of the community that they automatically know what everyone else is thinking. That's also why it's nearly impossible to understand anything when they turn up the Wa; shit is like encryption on their denpa.
The retarded part is when you're reading purely Hiragana in the beginning with no spaces. A mind-blown challenge, mind you.
>not even むずかしい
Step up kouhai. No, but seriously, keep at it. It gets easier.
I appreciate the intention, I really do. But that's like shitting on people who just wanted to learn rugby because they'll never make it do the world championships or something.
Nothing will take you 5 years to read unless it's something like the original Genji Monogatari.
If you are disciplined enough to self-teach, then there's not much advantage.
>Oh, and particles.
Prepositions but at the end of the syntagm instead?
Isn't the point of learning Latin to make learning other Romantic languages much easier, since they all essentially derive from it?
Unless there are more natives than just the teacher, you're essentially paying money to be spoonfed at a snails pace and forced to listen to people who are worse than you prove how little they study.
>just taking a course in uni
Why would they want to sabotage their progress and learn at the pace of a retarded snail?
Being completely addicted to programs like anki is bad, but college is worse. College language courses, especially Japanese because the teachers are fucking terrible, are designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. You're basically in a special ed course.
It's my long term goal to be able to read a Nisio Isin novel which would, in all probability be before most of his stuff gets a translation.
How doomed am I?
Japanese grammar is several times easier than English, German or any romance language.
Well mate I'd think it very much depends on the class, right?
More like the entire grammatical structure.
I think it will pay off if you need to have learned 5 romantic languages 5 years from now. Studying the language you need is much more practical.
Not that much. You'd be in a much worse spot if you wanted to read shit like KKK and RaiL-Soft VNs.
I lived in China until I was 9 and I can't write that shit properly.
If that's the point, then it's not a very good one. Knowing one romance language will give you a good edge on learning another. Particularly if it's between Italian, Portuguese, and Spanish.
As someone who speaks two Latin languages I can tell you that this is kind of dumb. The Latin languages between them are more similar than any particular one in regards to Latin. People study Latin to study their ancestors.
I look at those threads and I am also taking a class.
The class is so slow compared to what a motivated individual can do on their own. Once I've learned something, I still have to wait around and do worksheets and skits and take a test on it instead of moving on and learning more.
The only upsides would be forced learning if motivation gets low, and having a native speaker teach the class so you can hear how to use the proper pitch accents and talk back and whatnot so you don't sound wrong or like a total robot when you speak.
I will never not hold you to a high-standard, anon.
You may not reach what I expect of you, and that's okay, so long as I saw that you tried, and tried, and tried.
I think they're a waste of money, but I never took them. Some people say they are good for motivation, but that's just basically guilting yourself into having to study since you already spent the money anyway, which is retarded.
I don't get it. Say I know enough Kanji, how should I learn vocabulary?
The problem is that you literally can not ask for anything without getting 30 replies of "read the fucking guide".
I could understand for common shit like 'how do I learn katakana?' but Jesus...
Scroll down a bit to get an idea.
It's sort of difficult just because of the wordplay, and I'd rather die than try to translate it into English, but just in terms of grammar and vocab it's not horrible. If it's you it could be done.
The challenge of Japanese isn't comprehending the grammatical structure, it's rewiring your brain to comprehend information in the way Japanese presents it, which is completely backwards to how we have used it all our lives.
I don't know about others here, but I make my own anki deck and add words I encounter in VNs/manga/LNs that I don't know. It seems to be working fairly well. Also, I learned kanji beforehand.
I feel one immersive beginner class is key, then you can study your brain out alone.
Every teacher has a different structure, but with a good foundation, textbooks are good enough
If the answer to your question is in the guide, which it probably is if people are telling you to search for the answer there, then you deserve each and every one of those replies.
No one says that in normal conversation, faggot.
>The problem is that you literally can not ask for anything without getting 30 replies of "read the fucking guide".
If we tell you it's in the guide, then it's in the guide.
Any non-super-beginner question will not be shot down like that. I understand that you might find it annoying, but the information will be there in the guide if you got that response, I promise you.
I know they get shit on but I'm taking one in Uni and it is pretty nice. The teacher is native, and the majority of the people in the class aren't the neckbeards /a/ would leave you to believe they would be (more than 75% of my class is asian).
Getting the practice how to speak/write it is also pretty nice.
It's more like wanting to learn rugby, but only one position and not paying any attention to what the other players are doing. To get the most out of what you want to do, you have to go beyond it or you're missing out on crazy lust with the hot neighbor because all you wanted to do was fap.
That's not as challenging as you're trying to make it. It's just a matter of seeing some example sentences everyday and getting used to it. Hardly what I would call difficult.
The classes at UC Irvine were superb. If you're going to community college you're already a failure.
Producing is much more difficult than producing and European language, even if Japanese grammar comes off as fairly simple because of the dissimilarity between them.
It's not difficult, but I think it's definitely one of the aspects of Japanese that takes the most time and effort. What's nice though is that it doesn't really have to be learned so much as vigorously trained.
You're making me feel dumb now, anon. Maybe I am, but I look at example sentences and read untranslated VNs (currently only simple ones like moege and nukige) yet my brain still isn't able to get used to the grammar. ;_;
Is it really useful to straight up learn 200 or so Kanji? What does it even help? As far as I can tell most vocabulary have nothing to do with the kanji they are made up of, unless I'm very mistaken. I guess, I just want to know the uses of straight up learning kanji to english word like what Heisig's has you do.
凄い! カナダ出荷できる? 御免なさい私はあまり日本語が話せない
Okay, so how badly did I fuck this up asking about shipping? At least the -できる is right, yeah?
First of all, most people here don't give a shit about producing. Second, producing is also just a matter of getting used to. The change from SVO to SOV is not so dramatic and complicated.
Too lazy and time consuming to try and learn Japanese. I am not sure if I wanted to go Japan and work at there in the first place.
>Nobody learns by rote memorization except autists
>Nobody learns by rote memorization except for every single person in Asia
I fail to see a difference.
But japanese only needs a verb in the end to have correct sentences.
It's like learning chinese in 2 months so you know a keyword and how to write 2000 or so kanji. Anything beyond that is outside of the scope of RtK and the like. Putting sound and meaning to symbols you already know is much easier, and arguably faster overall than doing the whole process for every word without it.
I just took an LN VERY early on, before I knew more than 500 Kanji even, and read it all as fast as I could not caring to understand everything that was written, just doing my best to decipher each sentence and moving on if I could understand the gist of what was happening in the story. Did wonders for me.
That is, just read and read until it feels natural.
>$30,503.97 per year to learn something that you could have taught yourself with a little dedication and access to the internet.
Jesus christ, are Americans completely out of their minds? What is wrong with you?
2000+ would pass a language proficiency test
There are far more, but they are mostly used only in Chinese and rarely see use in modern moon
I've never asked a question in that thread.
I know a couple people who know the language, so I ignore that thread and their guide.
I just find it silly that you can only actually discuss specific things without that spam.
I think I'm gonna do that shit.
I DL'd Kino no Tabi, but KnT is something I want to enjoy and thoroughly understand. I think I'll get some trash harem LN and just speedrun it.
The issue is that I often have to ask help from friends who are good at japanese. Maybe I should just stop asking for help at all and do my best to understand it.
So what would you recommend instead of Heisig's?
Oops, wanted to quote >>100698459
If by specific things you mean everything except the things that are explicitly explained in the guide, sure.
How did you figure out what the sentence was saying? Looking everything up?
If you don't put your own brain to work you'll always be stuck in some places. Reading that LN was basically a guessing job from beginning to end.
It was much cheaper when I attended, but yeah it was good. I think if you sign up for just the language courses a la carte, it's cheaper, but still about a grand or more per quarter.
The uni system in America is totally fucked.
I knew basic grammar and I had a dictionary. The rest was just imagination, some guessing and a lot of persistence.
I'd recommend either Heisig or Kanjidamage, but only if you feel inclined to write. I was trying to get across that it does very few things, but does them very well. Not everyone needs the foundation it provides, but just being able to recognize and write almost everything you come across from day one feels amazing. There's still learning actual vocab, but knowing the symbols that vaguely represent it is way easier than doing it all at once.
>The uni system in America
It's not just America. We're on the verge of the collapse of the university system pretty much worldwide, what with high-tech learning taking off and everything.
>People suggesting learning Latin in this thread
Oh please. Come back to me when you can speak some Proto-Indo-European and we'll talk.
I went to Japan for a few months for classes and while I was there bought up the first volumes of some kiddie stuff (Shin-chan, Yotsuba, Azumanga, some shonenshit). I can't fully comprehend most yet, but I get the idea and phrase patterns are becoming more obvious
That's bad, but I'd think it is understandable... but I sent something a little better to Toranoana asking about a package that got delivered to the wrong address in Japan and here's what I got.
They will respond to you more than fluently; they will respond the same way they would respond to a fellow eleven: in formal Japanese. I hope you can figure out keigo.
Person who knew a little chinese from when they were young here, if I want to get better at both should I redo chinese then go to japanese?
Why is keigo easier to read than slang shit?
Please, please for the love of god,
DO NOT TAKE JAPANESE CLASS IN COLLEGE unless you know your hiragana and katakana by heart.
When I was all full-blown weaboo and shit, I studied and practiced writing the hiragana and katakana ON MY OWN before I graduated high school. For me it took me 3 months to fully master the kana's. When I got to college i breezed through JPN elementary level and all I had to worry about was trying to fully comprehending the grammar (particles and sentence/order structure that's compared to English) and kanji (I hate them... Koreans can make do without their kanji (hanja) but Japanese will be a broken language without the 'Ji's) so I can get an A+ and impress my QT little sensei-chans (seriously, my instructors from elementary to intermediate were of almost loli physique relative to mine!)
I know right. Fucking shit like
>it took me 3 months to fully master the kana's
I hope this is copypasta because that's some retarded shit.
>it's cheaper, but still about a grand or more per quarter
With that money you could hire a Japanese person to talk to you for 4+ hours a day and correct everything you say and still have hundreds of dollars to spare.
How does the school convince anyone to waste their money on this and how do the students justify it? That's insane to spend over a thousand dollars a quarter for several years just to learn what will eventually amount to intermediate level Japanese.
Same reason why hospitals charge a hundred bucks for a box of tissues.
>I meant to say that's completely different from Englsih
Well, for me I was there anyway and it didn't add to my tuition bill. I wound up getting two degrees, too.
The classes were REALLY good. Everything about them was good, and the teachers were really dedicated.
>3 months to fully master the kana's
A whole character a day? Good luck with retention, Speedy Gonzales. Most normal people should schedule at a least a week for learning a new character.
>The classes were REALLY good.
What was so great about them?
I can't imagine. They would have to bring in a bunch of naked geisha girls every class and allowed the students to snort complementary coke off their asses while getting a handjob for it to be worth that kind of money.
> (particles and sentence/order structure that's compared to English)
I meant to say "that's totally unlike English.
My college charges the same rate for anything 12+ credits in a semester. So assuming you can handle the workload, taking a 5th, 6th, or 7th class in a semester only makes things cheaper for you, as they're essentially "free".
You can certainly learn Japanese without classes, but for many it helps to have the structured lessons and fire under your ass to come in regularly, have people to do dialogues with, etc.
No. Chinese only helps you with stroke order and radicals, really, and you get a sense for stroke order after writing them down for a week or two.
Which is why I'm asking which order is better.
Alright, I have to ask.
Is differentiating the long and short vowels complete bullshit to everyone or am I just filthy gaijin scum?
Some people do find it easier to learn kanji by writing them down though. Although that can be accomplished by learning the jouyou kanji.
Which one would you rather know?
The answer to this question is the answer to your question.
>Americans have to pay 120,000 for a four year education.
I think I would just live in the woods with a trailer and a satellite dish if I lived in the states.
You're a filthy gaijin scum. And before you ask you do have to put a vocal stop when there is a っ.
Either way works. If you know pinyin, onyomi is easier to memorize, but the reverse is true as well. Also, it depends on your reading material. Would you rather read raw manga or Chinese scans?
Well, thread's about to die. It's been fun.
Unless you studied Wu I don't think knowing Chinese will help with onyomi at all.
By Wu I mean ancient Wu.
We all learned a lot. And we learned really thoroughly. We had LOTS of speaking and listening practice every day, learned all the grammar thoroughly, basically everything about the language. We also learned a lot of Japanese culture and got lots of time outside of class to talk to the teachers if we wanted.
In my opinion it was well worth it, because it gave me a super solid foundation to build off of on my own.
I'm chinese, but I don't care about modern chinese culture. I only want to talk to my grandparents directly before they die, because they know almost no english. The chinese government no longer cares about the health of it's citizens, and they hinder their own culture because they're afraid of ideas and criticism. They do not deserve to rule, and I hate them.
>everything about the language
Welp, thanks for admitting that you have no idea what you're talking about.
This is why you shouldn't rely on classes, kids.
God you're such a fucking joke.
If you're in a hurry, learn Chinese first, although listening practice is essential because of tones. Kanji and Han Zi are fairly similar in meanings, so learning one greatly helps in learning the other.