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Weekly power levels thread
>>
And yes, Doogie should be below TTGL
>>
>>100689478
>weekly
No

Leave and take that shitty chart you made several renditions of last week with you
>>
>TTGL and SN = Demonbane
fucker please
>>
>>100689478

Troll chart with Troll edits.
>>
>Bills above Saga, DS and Nono
Ahaha.
Nope.
>>
>>100689478
>Yukari under Yuki Nagato
>Yukari under Sailor Moon
>Fiamma almost at crowleys level
>Dio under Sakuya
>Yuusha above Gil top lel
I can continue
nigga check your shit
>>
>>100689478
I'm glad Shichika is on that list, even if he is at the bottom. Katanagatari is so fucking good.
>>
>>100689478
>Ideon
>Raideen
>Daitarn 3
>/m/ intensifies
>>
>Anti-Spiral
>TTGL
>Equal to Demonbane
>Demonbane higher than Tenchi

Trolling hard.
>>
What the fuck is special tier?
>>
>>100691793
It's like the Shortbus, for special little fighters.
>>
>Gilgamesh below Arcuied
If it was Archetype: Earth I'd understand, but 30% Tsukihime era Arc? Bullshit.
>>
>>100689478
Still need to fix EGDs affinity

Magical
Divine
Weapon
Reality
>>
>>100689478
Get the fuck out.

Take this shit to /co/ or /v/. They love powerlevels.
>>
>>100692233

Arc on this list is counting her abilities from Type-Earth/Type-Moon and from Ultimate one and the Moon Debuff on top of her normal abilities
>>
>>100692233
This is referring to Earth btw. I just used the wrong pic.

Also Gunbuster be above or below Nono?
>>
>>100692444
Below, obviously. The far more advanced model is more powerful, who'd have thunk?
>>
>>100692170
This is staggeringly unhelpful
>>
>>100692680
It's characters that are situationally powerful, or able to take down much more powerful opponents despite being very weak.
>>
>>100692680
It's for mentally diverse fighters. I'm not sure how else to explain it to you without being politically incorrect.
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http://www41.atwiki.jp/goronka/pages/11.html
http://www38.atwiki.jp/saikyouhero/pages/11.html
>>
>>100692680
Fighters who need Special Education. Come on, now.
>>
>>100692783
Japs power charts are garbage, and a reflection of opinion and popularity
>>
>>100692783

The best those charts can do is separate characters into power level tiers, the power levels of those tiers is complete bullshit however.
>>
>>100692874
>Japs power charts are garbage
Actually, there was a lot of heated debate and rigorous feats analysis for them. I remember Madokami causing a huge shitstorm that year.
>>
>>100692775
Okay this makes sense
>>100692778
>>100692835
This doesn't, why do they get their own category? Their mental capacity shouldn't affect how big a crater results when they hit something.
>>
What does "special" tier mean? I believe it means they can't categorized, but things like Shiki have clearly defined limits. For example, she can't go above multiversal because she is connected to the Root, which means that anything with order above it trumps her. Additionally, her feats are limited by her human body, so she loses in plenty of straight up fights. I'd say she should be placed around Arc at best.
>>
>>100693140

She is Weaker than Arc according to Nasu. 3rd strongest non-servant character
>>
>>100693140
Void Shiki is Supposedly around saber level power, but Nasu said that and Nasu is a proven liar who can't keep his own canon straight, so take that with a grain of salt
>>
>>100689478
>Akira

lolwhut?
>>
Why is Arceus so low every time? He's fucking god
>>
>>100693236
>>100693306
I know enough about Ryougi thank you. I'm asking why she is in special tier when her limits are well defined. Her human body prevents her from being too far up the chart and her connection to the Root means she can't touch beings like EGB.

At least Shiki still has some mystique to him.
>>
>>100693364
AW SHIT

I just noticed that
>>
>>100693401
Universal/Multiversal creation/destruction is easy for the top tiers on that chart.

Being "God" doesn't mean much.
>>
>>100693401

Of only one universe and his control is limited to controlling only other Pokemon

>>100693430

Because people who don't know shit about her talk like they do saying she can kill anything, despite it being stated that she has defined limits
>>
>>100693430
Well I'm still not 100% sure what special means, so I can't help you there. But if it means what you think it means, then alot of those characters shouldn't be there.
>>
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>>100693594
I just remember looking at this chart last year and there were MUCH fewer characters there, with a lot of them showing up in the main chart. I'm completely baffled at how much of a mess this has become.

Oh well, leave it to /a/ to powerlevels.
>>
>>100693692

We should honestly just remove the lesser known characters and clean it up after doing so
>>
>>100693739
Well then you have to figure out who stays and who goes. I don't recognize a fair number of those people/robots/whatevers, but I just got back into anime after losing interest for the better part of a decade. How do you decide whether a show and it's characters are obscure and should be removed, or just something you haven't seen?
>>
>>100694024
This makes a pretty good point.

Demonbane is actually a fairly obscure character. If we removed him because he isn't popular then you are knocking the only character that comes close to Tenchi in power off the charts.
>>
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Anyone remember Ueki? i feel like he should be added to this list.

Somewhere between saber and jack rakan?
>>
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>>100694024

This could be a good start.
>>
What happened to the three tier three chart system you were working on Chartfag?
>>
Where's the Flash?
>>
>>100694497
Othinus is now Universal though.
>>
>>100694497
>>100689478
How did that get so out of control in less than a week?
>>
>>100694611
OP's is a troll one.
>>
>>100694214
Demonbane is pretty fucking popular, nigger.
>>
>>100694611
People going
>i want "this character" and "this character" in there.
>>
>>100694657
On 4chan
>>
>>100694497
How is Yukari so high on that when she isn't even the strongest being in her own series?
>>
>>100694497
>Bills that high
Pffft.
>>
>>100694497

>Removing all of that Character after what /a/ users mostly agree that it should be there for a lot of hours work to put in there

really?, that's not a good move anon, just make more of the three tier three chart system you were working on, Chartfag
>>
>>100694497
>One week
>Over 30 characters added

Oh /a/, this is why I can't take you seriously.
>>
>>100694591
Yes, she should be higher
Although Demonbane and Tenchi can buttfuck multiple universes and realities at the same time
>>
>>100694842
True, she's not as high as them. She did a shitload, but she did them one at a time instead of all at once.
>>
>>100694759
>>100694787
>>100694830
>>100694831

You know that I'm not the Chartfag nor am i doing edits right? Chartfag has a trip now and he isn't doing anymore edits for a few weeks, this was just a random troll thread somebody started and people kept bumping for some reason.
>>
>>100694759
Canoncally she could turn her self to demonbane if she wanted to
>>
>>100694992
But she doesn't want to cause she likes toying with her opponents and is never serious
>>
>>100694992
Then her concious would be superceeded by Demonbane and she would become an avatar of JUSTICE

>>100694988
So, it was just the excuse we need for a PL thread.
>>
>>100694992
No she can't. Her placement is utter bullshit and whoever made the chartfag put her up that high is pure fanwanking.
>>
>>100695355
I can only think of 3 others that can equal Yukari and 2 that can pass her
>>
>>100695440
>>
>>100694988

>not the real Chartfag
>Confirmed for Trollposting

So Why the hell did we ranting on this thread then?
>>
>>100695517
You got one of the 2
>>
>>100695571
Is the other Eiki
>>
>>100695440
She's not even close to omnipotent nor is her scale close to universal. She has limits as with gapping to the moon. Get over it,
>>
>>100695570

That's the question i want to ask, Why are people bumping this damn thread when no changes are going to be made. so there is no point of discussion here
>>
>>100695783
To sharpen our arguments so when Chartfag does return we will have legit comments.
>>
>>100694497
>Arceus above STTGL
>Sakura above anti-spiral
I am pretty sure Arceus can't a universe
>>
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>>100695707
>>100695670
>>100695571
>>100695517
>>100695440
>>100695355
>>100695079
>>100695064
>>100694992
Guys Boarders they solve everything
>>
>>100695879
Arceus created the pkmn universe
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>>100695890

So...it's Touhou Thread now ?
>>
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>>100689478
>ilias and sailor moon above arceus
Just no.
>>
Why is Giorno always so low? His power is the most ridiculously broken thing ever invented.
>>
>>100696055
Sailor Moon was OP as fuck by the end of the series.
>>
>>100695879
Arceus literally created the entire pokemon universe, like he personally made the concepts of space and time and matter.
>>
Why isn't sakura and rin near the top?
They both have access to sorcerery - rin can gain energy from an infinite amount of parallel universes, while sakura has access to the beginning-of-creation-void-singularity-thing.
To do this properly - someone would have to make an offense/defense chart. A lot of characters can one-shot anyone with low defenses. Anyone who can't survive a nuke can be beat by homura - yet she's at the bottom.
>>
>>100696276
Because the top is is filled with multiversal reality warpering gods
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>>100696221
And yet he gets fucked up by pokeballs.
>>
>>100696276
As in TM Sakura and Rin?

Pffftaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahhahha
>>
>>100696413
>lvl 80

Which is why he isn't higher on the list
>>
>>100695956
>>100696221
Yet Mewtwo with a rock is stronger than him.
Some god.
>>
>>100696276

BB and Heavens hole is more likely to be here than Any form of past Sakura and LolRin
>>
>>100693014
Must be bad for them to swallow so much crow after realizing that Madokami cannot actually DO shit, nor does she have any kind of raw power measurement outside of Ultimate Gretchen, which she immediately killed as part of the casualty effect surrounding her wish.

Meanwhile
>OP's troll rearrangements

kek

>Uminekos on this chart at all instead of being in the Special Tier

Meta powers, they cannot directly effect the human world. Tools of the author != Cosmic beings of omnipotence/omniscience.
>>
>>100695890
Reimu and Yukari are overrated. A lot of their powers are vague and most of the bullshit posted about them (ie. that Yukari infodump) as just speculah.
>>
>>100695783
So you're saying we should report you for shitposting intentionally?
>>
>>100693692
Two or three trolls have flooded the list in the last month. That's all there really is to it.
>>
>Saber only barely above Shichika
I mean I like him and all, but he shouldn't even be on the list.
>>
Ya'll niggas need Sakura
>>
>>100696632

Considering i didn't start the thread? no you shouldn't
>>
>>100696574
>Must be bad for them to swallow so much crow after realizing that Madokami cannot actually DO shit,
Is that why she's near the top, just a smidgen below the highest tier?
>>
>>100696476
Sakura can also stop time, Homufriend.
>>
>>100694497
>STTGL equaling Anti-Spiral

No.
>>
>>100696822
So can a lot of people on that list.
>>
>>100696574

Poor anon, You bassically prove that Madokami indeed CAN DO SHIT, Ultimate Gretchen is almost Universe level threat and she just destroy it with a single move. Good job anon.
>>
>>100696790
It means they're morons for doing that. Ultimate Madoka HOLDS no power. She's a force of casualty; a new and extra universal rule over existence. She can only act in a manner that enforces that rule. This is the only reason that Homura and QB are able to entrap her, after all.

Homucifer has more real, effective power. As in, outright demonstrates being able to warp the new, rewritten reality at will, even if her grip is also demonstrated to be not as iron-clad as it should be.

In short, Elevens are morons with a moe boner. At least with Cardcaptor Sakura, they have a leg to stand on with the outrageous power claims.
>>
>>100696895
Homura should be higher, definitely but she doesn't have nearly the amount of power that Sakura has.

I'm pretty sure everyone who wants her lower on the chart hasn't actually watched/read CCS and just doesn't like that some old cute character they've only ever seen in lolicon hentai is ranked higher than their favorite. She she honestly be higher, at least above STTGL.
>>
>>100696632

>Didn't read the conversation
>>
>>100696822
And EGD can travel time. Manipulate the flow of time bakcwards and forwards at any speed it wants. Cause time to ripple etc etc
>>
>Ben 10 not even on the list
The fuck?
>>
>>100697006
I was talking about TM Sakura, not CCS Sakura
>>
>>100697073
>Ben 10
>Anime
>>
Why are people still posting and bumping this thread?
>>
>>100697275
Because /a/ likes to argue pointlessly, how have you not noticed this?
>>
>>100696987
>What is casualty

It doesn't matter the level of power the target has if the person that is poised to destroy it launches an attack defined as "will succeed no matter how absurd", or "will succeed because of x".

In this case, it's the later. Because of her wish to "Erase all witches before their moment of birth", she has all the tools needed to do JUST THAT ACTION...and nothing further. Not hang out with Homura 24/7, not squish planets between her fingertips, not rewrite history so that every fifth person has a tomato for a head and a slug for a butt.

Witch on the small volcano island? Erased.
Witch about to be born during a burning? Erased.
Witch destroying Mitakihara with the force of a Class 5 Tyhpoon? Erased.

Hulking amount of despair that was threatening to destroy the entire universe in one instant? Erased.

She can erase witches, she can bring the souls pulled from the now-nonexistent Soul Gems into her own godforce in order to continue it's job.

But she can't even Homuhop.
>>
>>100697190
So? Pokemon is the same shit, why is arceus on there but Ben 10 isn't? He would at least be higher than some of the bottom ones
>>
>>100697394
>Thinking Pokemon isn't anime
>>
>Pegasus Kouga and Gemini Saga both stronger than Son Goku and Third Impact Rei Ayanami

>Alita and Kenshiro stronger than Nanoha and Father

what is this shit?
>>
>>100697394
I'm going to give you them benefit of the doubt and assume you are an idiot rather than a troll so listen close.
Pokemon = Japanese animation = anime
Ben 10 = western animation = not an anime
>>
>>100694497
>Removing Nabeshin
Every. Fucking. Time.
Cut that shit out. He's the only one who legitimately belongs in the Special box.
>>
>>100696998

Madoka is indeed can't interact with mortal world in her madokami form but she can use all the witch she Purify to yuri Valhalla(like Sayaka and Nagisa) to do that Job like some of Higher level Omnipotent in this list, Homura can actually do Shit with mortal world now in her Akuma Form and also have her familiar similar of madoka controlling witch(it was hinted that She's not more powerfull than Madokami was since Madokami CAN and WILL escaped from her barrier if she didn't take control of madoka inside the barrier)

>>100697372

That's why Both are in the Special Tier
>>
>>100697529
>>100697434
http://myanimelist.net/anime/306/Ben_10
Fucking idiots
>>
>>100697650
>MAL
>>
>>100697638

This...Also all the Witch madokami was Purify is also Stronger than their original Counterpart now(As Seen with how much Sayaka grow stronger in the Movie), Heck...Sayaka and Nagisa is Counter Guardian and persona user now.
>>
>>100691498
>Tenchi higher than Demonbane

You a stupid.
>>
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On that list, how many people are physically stronger than SSJG Goku and Bills?

As in, people who can strike harder than the both of them, without the use of some absurdly broken power or something, relying purely on hand to hand skill?
>>
>>100700415
Purely on striking power EGD is measured as infinite. He has demonstrated the ability to punch so hard that he has shattered the structure of an entiire universe he was in at the time and caused it to merge with another.
>>
>>100693401
God means shit in anime.

And now there's Xerneas and Yveltal who can completely wreck him making him even more shit.
>>
>>100695956
>>100696221
That is only the fucking Sinnoh Creation myth.

It is also a fucking alien horse stuck in a carriage wheel.
>>
>>100701230
>without the use of some absurdly broken power or something, relying purely on hand to hand skill.

Exactly how does EGD fit that criteria? He's not a physical fighter, he's a god mech.

I'm asking who's actually physically stronger than SSJG Goku and Bills in a hand to hand fight, with no broken abilities involved?

Just pure hand to hand skill?
>>
>>100700415
Saga (as well as pretty much everyone else Gold Saint level or above in Saint Seiya), TTGL, Grand Zamboa, Getter Emperor, Nono, probably a bunch of others.
Bills and Goku aren't even physically the strongest in Toriyama's works, that goes to Arale. She should really be on there, come to think of it.
>>
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>>100701566
Because EGD isn't just a mecha. It is mechanical systems are powered by the Cor Leonis which in turn draws it's energy from the entire energy output of the suns of an infinite number of parallel universes. It is able to channel that power into it's systems where it is altered by magical formulas that are inscribed over the entirety of it's inside and outsides. Every single part of Demonbane is covered in sigils, circles, symbols, and runes, that function to reinforce it's body and machinery to an insane degree.

Here is a breakdown of it's specs. I can elaborate on anything in particular you want to know about and give demonstrable examples that were used to calculate it's specs.
>>
>>100701566
>without the use of some absurdly broken power or something, relying purely on hand to hand skill.
That's a very arbitrary factor. Even DB characters need ki to power most of their abilities, without it they'd be no more impressive than Mr Satan.
>>
>>100701679
Everyone in Saint Seiya uses some kind of powerful ability, TTGL is a giant mech than can hurl galaxies, and everyone else you mentioned likely falls under that same type of category.

I'm talking straight up martial arts without the use of broken abilities.

As for Arale, that looks more like a gag character, akin to looney toons or something. Toonforce itself is an ability that rivals high tier reality warpers.

He's western, but Bugs Bunny would be at the top of that list alongside Demonbane.
>>
>>100701874
They only use ki to strengthen themselves, they don't produce any kind of hax or broken abilities the vast majority of the time.

They rely on martial arts to get the job done. I'm asking who on that list could best them at their own game. There's plenty of magic users, godly robots, nigh-omni's, reality warpers, and the like.

But there aren't many hand to hand fighters on that list that are on the level of SSJG Goku and Bills. Kenshiro, Shichika, and the like are what I'm talking about.

Martial artists who rely on their hand to hand skills.
>>
>>100701876
See: >>100701874. Your point doesn't make any sense, anyone with some kind of superhuman strength will have some kind of contrived reason for it. What you're asking for is essentially a character who is strong 'just because'. There are only so many characters like that, and none of them come close to DB level power. Saitama is about the only one I can think of, off the top of my head.
>>
>>100702125
See
>>100702074
Saitama falls under that category, he's a martial artist who relies on hand to hand skills. He's strong, I'd say strong enough to hang with Saiyan/Namek Saga characters.

Not quite Frieza level, but strong.
>>
>>100702074
Before Demonbane got Cthulga and Ithaqua he just punched shit to death. Even after he got them He fought his final battle against Master Therion mostly hand to hand. Demonbane can scrap
>>
>>100701876
>Toonforce itself is an ability that rivals high tier reality warpers

How about a superdimensional (past, present, future all at once) reality warper fusion that wields the power of absolute creation and destruction?

I'd like to see SSG Goku and 1M Superman teamed up even stand a microscopic chance against that let alone fucking toons.
>>
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>>100702074
>They only use ki to strengthen themselves, they don't produce any kind of hax or broken abilities the vast majority of the time.
Well actually most DB characters have some powers that aren't raw force, even Goku can sense others with ki, teleport, etc.
Anyway, Saint Seiya characters have skill and strength on top of everything else, so that still stands. If ki to boost power is fine, cosmo to do the same should be fine too. Likewise with Arale, the toonforce is only being applied to her immense strength. Nono is fine too, she's just a really strong gynoid, much like Arale.

While we're on it, I'll throw out Kanata as well. She's a gifted boxer and her only power is simply to be super strong and hard to kill. Plus she can smash planets with punches.
>>
>>100702226
Demonbane is not a martial artist, nor does he rely purely on hand to hand combat.

He's a god mech who's can pretty much do anything he wants.

SSJG Goku and Bills are still likely the strongest hand to hand martial artists on that list.

>>100702304
Neither SSJG Goku or any version of Superman would win against what you just laid out, and I'm not claiming that.

What I'm claiming is that SSJG Goku and Bills are likely the strongest hand to hand martial artists on that list.

>>100702388
Saint Seiya characters aren't martial artists, they're ability users who engage in JJBA type battles with very specific powers and abilities.

And Arale is likely stronger than anyone in DBZ, but she's a toonforcer. Toonforce is as broken a power as reality warping.

As for Kanata, tell me more about her? She sounds like the type of character I'm talking about.
>>
>>100701860
Why is it so fucking perfect?

>Demonbane will never glance in your direction acknowledging your existence
>>
>>100702572
>You will never cuddle with a deredere loli book waifu

>>100702557
Nigger you know absolutely nothing about Demonbane. Just because it has HAX OP and can do anything it want's doesn't mean Daijuji isn't stupid enough to not go running in kicking and swinging to EVERY fight he starts.
>>
reborns gundam is way too close to turn-A. And I would at least think EVA-01 would sit higher than reborns.
>>
I don't think Homura needs to be at the bottom. Anyone that can't take a dozen bullets and live is below her.
>>
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>>100702557
>pretty much
Now I know you are trolling.
>>
>>100702698
You're missing the point. EGD is a mech that was created to pretty much be able to do anything it wants.

It's not a martial artist like Saitama, Kenshiro, Shichika, Goku, or Bills.

He's a god mech, but not the strongest martial artist.
>>
>>100702766

Reborn Gundam Isn't Even The Strongest gundam in That Universe, Throw it Out of the list and give us Quanta instead in its place!
>>
Also can't you catch Arceus? I don't watch pokemon anymore so I won't question its strength but any reality warper capable of creating a masterball should be above it.
>>
Its funny how the chart doesnt even explain anything, nothing on the "chart" is labelled. Are stronger characters higher or to the right or both?
>>
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Jesus Christ what a shit chart.
>>
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>>100702557
>As for Kanata, tell me more about her? She sounds like the type of character I'm talking about.
There's not much to tell. She's a Nasuverse character whose power lies in the strength and toughness of her body. In DDD, there are a whole bunch of characters with ridiculous powers, but she ends up wiping them all out with brute force. There was even one guy who trapped her in his own personal universe, but she escaped by pretty much jumping from planet to planet and blowing everything up with punches. She doesn't have hax offensive powers, but she can raise her power so that she can physically defeat certain enemies, plus her durability and regeneration makes her really hard to kill, since she can gain resistance to attacks that have been used on her before.
Oh, and she boxes, and is insane. Most of the time she's kept in a special containment facility along with all the other superpowered weirdos, but one day she just goes on a rampage and beats everyone. That's all the story has so far, hopefully Nasu will write more soon.
>>
How are Umineko characters on there? There powers aren't even real in the context of their own universe
>>
>>100702861
I think you're being difficult, but I can play that game too.
Medaka is the strongest martial artist because her power is to take the skills of other and use them better than the person who she took the skill from. ANY skill she sees she copies at 120%. She now is able to defeat Bills in martial arts because she is now better than Bills in martial arts.
>>
>>100703032
Well, she sounds like the type of fighter I'm talking about. So, her punches are strong enough to shatter planets? Yeah, that's DBZ alright.

However, I think she stops at Frieza. And here's why:

Frieza enslaved an entire race of beings who could casually nuke mountains, islands, cities, moons, continents, life-wipe planets, with even a few like Vegeta who could outright bust planet. All of them combined wouldn't even be able to ticke Frieza.

He ended up wiping out the entire race along with nuking the planet, which was 10x the gravity of Earth, so likely larger or denser.

His powerlevel when he did all of this was 500,000, his first form. His final forms power level is 120,000,000. That means he did all of the above using literally less than 1% of his true power.

Kanata might be able to take Frieza in his first Form, but I think things will get hectic once he hits his 2nd or 3rd form.

Final Form is out of the question.

>>100703286
Medaka wouldn't even make it to Namek.
>>
>>100703286
>copying an ability is the same as having the strength to utilize it
She's a Mary-Sue but she can't copy something that kills her the first time.
>>
>>100703524
Do you want to know who the best martial artist is or who the most powerful is? They are different questions.
Frieza was a shit marital artist who was incredibly powerful.
>>
>>100703729
His punches, kicks, grabs, etc. were on par with skilled martial artists like Vegeta and Goku. He was just as skilled in hand to hand combat as they were, but more powerful and faster.

The entire premise of DBZ is martial arts. They even have the Tenkaichi Budokai for crying out loud. Aliens, robots, demons, etc. are all master martial artists.
>>
>>100703886
His punches and kicks were on par with Goku and Vegeta when his Power level was higher than theirs. His shit got wrecked once Goku went super sayain.
>>
>>100704010
Regardless, everyone still uses combinations of kicks, punches, ki blasts, etc. as part of their martial art. Having a higher powerlevel simply means your style becomes all the more powerful.
>>
>>100703022
>GER at the same level as Made in Heaven
Come on nigga

Come on.
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>>100703524
I think you're underestimating Kanata a little bit. She punches out planets (well, actually it got to the point where she was destroying multiple planets and possibly stars by smashing through them with individual jumps), but killing her is a lot harder. She becomes immune to things that can kill her, plus her ability to raise her power is relative to her opponent. She managed to identify the planets in that universe as 'enemies' and as such became strong enough to destroy them; so basically, she's at least as strong as her enemies make her. She could also regenerate in a second from being totally incinerated in the heart of a giant star. So she's kind of like Cell, only a cute girl with massive tits.
>>
Why do I feel like the Demonbanefags are the only ones bothering to put in the effort to justify their characters ranking. I want to see more images like >>100701860 from other characters to explain why they HAX OP Snowflakes is objectively better than any other one.
>>
>>100704300
See, you've greatly misled me. I thought Kanata was a girl who trained or mastered inner ki and developed a martial art style that gave her the physical force needed to literally punch out planets, or strike their pressure points or something.

But from what you just typed out, she's not really a martial artist, she's just another ability user with a broken power. Saitama doesn't use some crazy ability to "identify" his targets as enemies, he simply punches them out. Kenshiro strikes a pressure point and you're dead. Shichika styles all over you with his bladeless martial art style, and Goku, Bills, Frieza all harness their inner ki to make their martial arts more powerful.

Kananat's just another typical ability user who can cheese the hell out of you. I feel a bit let down.

We really need more female martial artists who are beastly powerhouses.
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>>100704665
Well, she does train her fighting style, but her power is innate. Though honestly it's not any cheaper than the likes of Frieza or Cell, who did nothing to earn their powers.
What's most impressive about her is her determination, more than anything else. She was trapped inside the fake universe for the equivalent of thousands of years and spent much of it wearing herself out trying to break free. She didn't really magically suddenly start smashing planets without a care in the world, she had to individually put effort into smashing every single one, each one proving tougher than the last (Nasu actually goes into weird detail over all the silly things she tries, like using momentum and gravity to Inazuma Kick a planet by running half the circumference of the planet and jumping to complete the circle). Plus there's the whole problem of jumping from planet to planet, since she can't fly, having to acheive escape velocity and accurately time the jump so she doesn't end up missing and winding up speeding endlessly through space, or getting trapped in the gravity of a black hole or a giant star (the latter of which does happen, incidentally. She ends up mutating horribly as a result of building resistance to it, but she still eventually manages to escape it). And then eventually she perfects her technique to the point where she can take out entire star systems with one perfectly timed jump. It's pretty fucking rad, in it's own right.
Sorry if it's not the exact thing you were looking for, but don't go away thinking she's just another one of those can-do-anything-instantly mary sues, because she's not. Hard work and guts is what she's about.
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What's Father from? He looks pretty cool.
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>>100706019
FMA, dude.
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>>100700415
ttgl it punches so hard it literally breaks the reality theyre in, and thats one of its weakest forms
>>
>>100706119
I haven't watched it yet because my friends love it. While I really like my friends, they usually have pleb tastes.

Maybe I'll give it a shot, though.
>>
>>100706164
I tried using the same reasoning with Demonbane and he said Mecha don't count.
>>
>>100706261
It's pretty good. Anon doesn't really discuss it because it's mainstream. Now hold on for a second, I know what you are going to say.
>Anon does talk about mainstream stuff all the time.
Yes it does, when it is talking shit about it. Anon likes FMA and can't reconcile that with it's elitest hate for all things popular. So he ignores it.
>>
any list that doesnt have STTGL and Antispiral at the very top/equal first or just below demonbane simply doesnt understand how STTGL/antispiral works, nor the feats they have shown
>>
>>100706481
it doesnt matter if youre independent of space/time or you can supposedly block any and all attacks or nullify any action.
that shit specifically doesnt work on STTGL to summarize its OPness, its power is essentially fuck what youre capable of, ive just exceeded, and destroyed it

you need some omnishitfuckery tier bullshit like demonbane to top it.
>>
>>100706481
Demonbane fag here. And while I understand just how powerful STTGL and AS are there are I believe that Tenchi is above them, since he is pretty much Demonbanes equal in terms of pure fucktardedness, he just lacks the toys, specific spells, and is limited by the fact his fiction only consists of thirteen universes.

Why don't you make a list of specific feats that STTGL and all it's derivatives have preformed, surmise what the absolute limits of those powers are, refine the list into a distinct things it is capable of doing and post them. I will make a composite image of what they are like >>100701860 and you can use that as evidence that you believe STTGL should be higher in the rankings the next time Chartfag shows up?
>>
>>100706754
will do.
>>
>>100706895
Well you don't have to go it alone, I'll help you. That image was the result of two solid thread of me and about 8 other Demonbane fags arguing with each other over exactly how to define what it is capable of. Plus it wouldn't hurt if you used the format we standardized in that image. It will help define exactly how we rank characters in the future.
>>
>>100689478
But that isn't a picture of Akira and Akira is significantly more powerful than Tetsuo
>>
>>100706895
Feats of TTGL and derivatives (gurren lagann, arc gurren lagann, super galaxy gurren lagann, tengen toppa gurren lagann, super tengen toppa gurren lagann. theyre all in 1 form by the end of the second movie, hence all their abilities are collective)

Regular gurren lagann
In low form can travel to the centre of the moon in around 15 seconds. high hypersonic speeds, mach 25+
by the end of lagann hen it travelled the distance of 1 STTGL body length (drill included) which was 528 billion lightyears, in 36 seconds.
ive done the math before, but ill paraphrase, several trillion times the speed of light.

its lower forms of strenght need not be mentioned, see pic related for its strongest feat. that drill was traveling at trillions of times the speed of light and had a mass the size of the universe.

cont
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>>100707128
Arc gurren lagann.
the size of a city, its speed was never clearly demonstarted, but it travels between the upper atmosphere of the earth and the moon pretty quickly, so its atleast at high hypersonic, on the same level as regular GL.

strongest feat, see pic related, punched an antispiral construct so hard it literally broke reality.
>>
>>100707128
Well lets do this all as one thing, and assume that anything a lesser Gurren Lagann can do STTGL can do to keep things simple.

So it should be roughly
Range: Universal
Speed: Massively FTL+; much faster than TTGL, which is over 100 Trillion times the speed of light

That seems to sum it up pretty simply.
>>
>>100707310
Forgot to mention this but it seems about right.

Destructive Capacity: Universe level+
>>
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>>100707247
Super galaxy gurren lagann
this is where shit starts to really get broken.
the size of the moon, has the ability to teleport between dimensions instantaneously (as demonstrated when the warp to the 11th dimension to fight the antispiral)

Some of its attacks include absolute probability manipulation. in weaponized form. they make probability altering missiles to damage literally impenetrable shields.
the truly retarded attack it has though is its temporal laser spam attack (see pic related). used to attack an enemy drifting in and out of their reality.
it basically goes like this.
everything in the past, present and future regardless of temporality or location gets hit.

essentially a FUCK EVERYTHING attack.
>>
>Dat TTGL/Anti-Spiralfag

Facepalm.jpg
>>
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>>100707466
Tengen toppa gurren lagann.
has the abilities of all previous incarnations.
10 million lightyears tall. billions of times FTL. can create galaxy sized railguns accurate to the planetary level. absolute total probability manipulation. can tank a literal big bang. see pic related. the sparks flying off were galaxies. its drill attacks are mid universe level attacks. capable of wiping out vast portions of a universe every swing.

also regarding TTGL and STTGL. most people seem to forget 2 things.
1) the gravity of either mech will instantaneously kill you on its own unless you can take galaxy-universe+ levels of pressure.
2) since these mechs are both laughably faster than light, and and all attacks are effectively invisible, as they exceed their own light given off.
you wouldnt even see that youve been hit till several million years later.
>>
Someone should add the anime/manga the characters come from.
>>
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>>100707665
Super tengen toppa gurren lagann

utterly broken.
528 billion lightyears tall. its giga drill collided with another equal one and destroyed the universe they were in. see the first panel of >>100707128


trillions upon trillions to the power of billions of times faster than light, has all the previous incarnations abilities. it also cannot be beaten. as demonstrated by the antispiral. an even more powerful mech was created, but the nature of STTGL is breaking any and all limits. it beat a mech literally created to be more powerful than itself created by (for all intents and purposes) god.

most people go on about how the antisprial beat STTGL. neither won. at first it was a stalemate. then regular gurren lagann finished the job. you can even see STTGL looking on in a few shots as simon charges the antispiral in the final battle.
pic related. side effects to its attacks create new universes.
>>
>>100707466
Okay so lets see How would you classify STTGL? Some sort of energy being? I was thinking
Classification: Manifestation of Spiral Energy
Sounds about right, but this is your argument you are building so you decide.

Probability Missiles (manipulate probability to ensure the enemy's defenses fail to block them)

I don't remember exactly these Temporal laser spam attacks. What episode/movie are they in?

>>100707665
Is this railgun you are talking about the one Yoko manifests? Also I don't remember there being absolute probability manipulation. You need to be able to provide a reference to everyone of these feats. The image just works as a shorthand for people who aren't familiar, but they should be able to search the archive for anything they don't believe and find this discussion with references so that they can be convinced.

The big bang tank was Lord Genone's attack, but since he functions as crew of the TTGL it counts under it's feats so

Lazengann Overload: Lazengann emerges from the TTGL's torso to intercept an incoming attack. If the attack is too strong, Lazengann would disintegrate completely. Yet, it wouldn't end there. Following that LordGenome is reduced to quantums which invades the energies of the opponent's attacks and transform it into a titanic drill. Next, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann consumes that drill thus increasing its power considerably. This trick appeared to work against Grand Zamboa's Infinity Big Bang Storm that was claimed to possess the power of the entire universe's creation. Absorbing that power enabled the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann to match the Anti-Spiral on almost equal footing.

That sound about right?

Also Gravity of supermassive and speed of super massive objects are presumed so there should be no need to list them as they are not notable just functions of it's size.
>>
>>100707619
It's funny how hard he keeps trying to push for STTGL being above EGD.
>>
>>100707938
Well that is why we are doing this. If we can some up with an exact undeniable list of feats that are referable than he is right.

But using hyperbole that is obviously not factual like
>trillions upon trillions to the power of billions of times faster than light
Doesn't help his case. I think that
Massively FTL+; much faster than TTGL, which is over 100 Trillion times the speed of light
Is more accurate and provable.
>>
>>100707900
>temporal laser spam
in lagann hen, as they face those giant 'face' ships the antispiral sends. same scenario in the anime. episode 25 i believe

>railgun. yes. i didnt bother mentioning all the other weapons they created in both the movie and series when different pilots temporarily took control (viral made swords, attenborough made TTGL sized probability alteration missiles)

>big bang tank
TTGL tanked it, lordgenome then converted it into energy. classify that as you will.

ill find a screen for probability manipulation in my next post.

>>100707938
did you even read my fist post? i specifically stated twice, that any list that has STTGL as anything but below EGD is stupid. i know EGD is stronger. actually READ >>100706612
>you need some omnishitfuckery tier bullshit like demonbane to top it.
>>100706481
>equal first or just below demonbane simply doesnt understand how STTGL/antispiral works
and yeah, STTGL is energy being.
>>
>>100708037
you can prove the exact speed. We know STTGL is stated to be 528 billion lightyears tall with its drill (source: the official lagann henn movie guidebook)

the fastest we see STTGL move is its giga drill break. knowing its length (528 billion lightyears) and multiplying it by the approximate amount of body lenghts it was moving a second gives you an accurate lower bound.
>>
>>100707938
Why are you talking to yourself?
I'm seeing actual feats being posted and discussed.
Are you just upset it's not your favorite character?
>>
How can a reality warper be stronger then a reality warper?
>>
>>100708037
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJOoMI8j4w

5:43 for STTGL speed estimate

between 10s and hundreds of body lengths a second. 10s as an accurate lower bounds.

528 billion x 10= 528 trillion lightyears per second, times by 3600 for lightyears per hour= around 1900800 trillion lightyears per hour.

thats lower bounds.
>>
>>100708200
Yes, and using that a rough guesstimate on STTGL speed would put it at well over 100 Trillion times the speed of light, but once you add that exponent on there it becomes completely unrealistic. Adding and exponent of a billion isn't just like adding 12 zeros on to the end of it. I really don't want to do the complete breakdown of the math because it is almost 0400 and my head is sluggish. We can assume it is over 100 trillion since that is about the speed of TTGL but under 10000 trillion times the speed of light because relativistic speeds don't increase that much when you base movement is the same but your mass has grown to...how much larger would you estimate STTGL is than TGGL?
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>>100708458
5280 times bigger mathemiatically if we go by the TTGL= 10 million lightyears tall, STTGL being 528 billion lightyears tall.

see pic related and >>100708455
from the guidebook
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>>100708455
Well that negates my last comment but is still well below the billion exponent you used.

But this is good. We are accurately defining what it is and providing references to it.
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>>100708555
1900800 trillion lightyears per hour is well above a billion
>>
for that probability alteration thing
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>>100708593
Anon you said
>trillions upon trillions to the power of billions of times faster than light
Lets take a hypothetical 100 trillion
100,000,000,000,000
If your exponent is billion that would be
Well fuck that gave my calculator an invalid input. It is too fucking large to be displayed.
100,000,000,000,000^1,000,000,000
is not
10,000,000,000,000,000
>>
>>100708801
that figure i gave was absolute lower bounds.
if we assumed 100s of body lengths a second, that number grows significantly
>>
>>100708859
I don't think you are getting what I am saying here. I have no problem with STTGL having a high as fuck speed that you can prove. 1900800 sounds fine. The point I am saying is that I don't think you understand how exponents work. Saying something is to the power of a billion isn't saying you are multiplying it by a billion. It is saying you are multiplying it by it's self a billion times.
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>>100708976
Meh, Kenshiro lives and breaths the rules of cool, but he should not be that high.

When will Chartfag come back?
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>>100708976
Seriously.
Who's the monstergirl and why is she so high?
>>
>>100709067
Which one?
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>>100709095
The smug angel one next to Arceus.
>>
>>100709134
Oh shit that took me a minute to find. That is the Goddess Ilias from Monmusu. She is the emobiment of Divine energy. She is powerful, but that ranking seems a bit high since she got tanked by a half angel shota .
>>
Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

Classification: Manifestation of Spiral Energy

Powers and Abilities: Super strength, speed, durability, can generate and project spiral energy, can also generate weapons (such as drills)

Weaknesses: If the pilots are killed, it ceases to exist

Destructive Capacity: Universe level+

Range: Universal

Speed: Massively FTL+; 1900800 trillion times the speed of light

Durability: Universe level+

Lifting Strength: Galactic Class+

Striking Strength: Galactic Class+

Stamina: Tied to the willpower of the pilots, so incredibly high

Standard Equipment: Has Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann in its head, and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann has all the previous forms of Gurren Lagann

Intelligence: However intelligent the pilots are

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

- Giga Drill Breaker: Creates a spiral drill bigger than itself and uses it like Gurren Lagann might.


How does this look? I cobbled it together. These are exclusively what STTGL has been shown to do. It is very impressive, but it isn't reality warping, which is where it's weakness in the charts lies. Although it is much larger and more powerful than TTGL, it's demonstrates less flexibility than TTGL which I will finsh up here in a few minutes, and from what I am looking at it seems to me that TTGL might be higher ranked than it on the charts. If you notice anything wrong, tell me and I will fix it.
>>
>>100709424
Real quick

For TTGL Notable Attacks/Techniques I am going to need you to come up with a list and description of each.

I remember from the movies that each Gunman that TTGL grew during the antispiral battle had a name, so if you could give me that and your description of it's primary attack that would be great.
>>
I like how there is an entire thread about some troll edit
>>
>>100709589
It wasn't about the troll edit. It was an excuse we needed to do some actual work. Chartfag is away for a few weeks, so this gives us a chance to work on our justifications for why a particular character should be placed somewhere.
>>
>Lina in Special Tier
That's a cop-out and you guys know it.
>>
>>100709801
Not really. She can take down universe-class monsters, but she's a glass canon. Anyone who can take out a normal human before she can start casting would waste her. There isn't really anywhere else for her to go but special.
>>
>>100709898
I'd assume you can't just stab her with a knife and kill her while she's possessed by the Lord of Nightmares.
>>
>>100709938
It works on the principle that she's not already possessed by LoN, she'd have to invoke her first. LoN is already near the top of the chart anyway.
>>
>>100708289
How am I talking to myself? I'm just saying STGGL has already been discussed since last year and it's position is good where is it. I don't see the point of you dumping all this.
>>
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann

Classification: Super Robo, Cosmic Super Spiral Gunmen

Powered By: Tengen Toppa Spiral Engine (that is run by the willpower of its pilots)

Destructive Capacity: Multi galaxy level+, possibly universe level after absorbing the Infinity Big Bang Storm

Range: Mecha melee range, up to a few astronomical units via ranged attacks

Performance: Massively FTL (hundreds of trillions times faster than the speed of light, albeit its off-set somewhat by the mecha's huge size)

Terrain: Space

Durability: Multi galaxy level+, possibly universe level energy absorption by sacrificing the Lazengann Overlord

Lifting Strength: Galactic Class (being the size of a galaxy tends to does it for you)

Striking Strength: Galactic Class+ (can throw galaxies, can match the Grand Zamboa with its punches)

Notable Features: Super strength, speed, durability, agility, spiral energy manipulation, spiral field, energy blasts, energy absorption, matter/energy manipulation and conversion, able to manifest any weapon the pilots want, can assimilate other machinery on contact, teleportation, able to break through dimensions and space-time, can detect dimensional and temporal warps, can attack both through the near past and near future, some resistance against mindfuck and illusions, probability manipulation (can convert even 0% to 100%), reality warping (in spiral space the recognition turns into reality), has the super-powered versions of TTGL's precursors that can emerge one-after another after the machine is destroyed

Needed Prerequisite for Use: Excessive amounts of Spiral Energy to both manifest and control the machine

Weaponry:

Drill Arms(once destroyed these drills could be recreated almost instantly)
Katana
Sniper Rifle
Space-time Anchor
Probability Missiles (manipulate probability to ensure the enemy's defenses fail to block them)
>>
>>100710026
Forget what I said. I completely missed LoN being on there. I was even looking for her. I guess I'm just blind or something.
>>
>>100710038
Because now I can finish making my images, and the next time TTGLfag tries to jockey for a higher position I can shut him down by posting them and explaining exactly why he is wrong using his own words. It's a troll thread, but something is coming out of it that we can use in a legit Chartfag thread.
>>
>>100696998

Yeah, no.

Madoka became a true God after the wish. She blew up the universe at the end of time.

She's was just acting like the non-interacting guardian of the world. Out of her free choice. She abandoned the happiness as a normal human for that. That's it.

Homura became a reality warping god capable of reshaping the entire universe after stealing just a part of her power.
>>
Does anyone else want me to make and format a power listing for them like Demonbane and now S/TTGL have? It will save a lot of time in the future when we have these discussions if we have ready made images.
>>
>>100710070

And this is the only named attacks I have seen from TTGL so I guess I will add them to the list.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

My Wife Is the Best in the Universe Swing: TTGL grabs the target with the Space-time Hook then proceeds to spin it overhead a several times before dropping it with a powerful crash. This was a special attack performed by Dayakka Littner in honor to his wife, Kiyoh.

Lazengann Overload: Lazengann emerges from the TTGL's torso to intercept an incoming attack. If the attack is too strong, Lazengann would disintegrate completely. Yet, it wouldn't end there. Following that LordGenome is reduced to quantums which invades the energies of the opponent's attacks and transform it into a titanic drill. Next, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann consumes that drill thus increasing its power considerably. This trick appeared to work against Grand Zamboa's Infinity Big Bang Storm that was claimed to possess the power of the entire universe's creation. Absorbing that power enabled the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann to match the Anti-Spiral on almost equal footing.

Giga Drill Breaker: Basically the same as the Gurren Lagann's variation, but incomprehensibly bigger and more powerful.Creates a huge drill over the mech and rams the opponent with it.
>>
>>100707128

This is fucking nothing.

Nozomu can destroy 4 universes with a basic swing of his sword. Not just explode them, completely erase them out of existence with not a single atom left.

Narukana can destroy the multiverse by just being there. Like, it's not getting destroyed only because she's holding back her power.

And they are both weak shit compared to the likes of Myuughi. To the point they would die and be completely erased from existence like if they never existed if they just thought about attacking her.

Euphoria and Aselia with awakened Cosmic Balancers should be even more powerful than Myuughi.
>>
>>100710385
Well like I offered with the TGGLfag before he realized that his mecha just wasn't that impressive and left, do you want me to help make a listing of it's abilities?

I am not familiar with Nozomu, but I can format it and make the images. All I would need you to do is fanwank to your hearts content and give me a list of demonstrable, abilities feats, and stats.
>>
>>100709571
sorry about the wait.
let me get the info
>>
>>100710511
why are you deleting all your posts?
>>
>>100710568
Probably got banned
>>
>>100710511
Oh talk some more shit, you directly copy pasted that off http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Mecha+Profile+-+Super+Tengen+Toppa+Gurren+Lagann

you didnt include anything i posted you idiot
>>
>>100708976

>Tenchi the highest

Just stop. He's the God and creator of just 12 universes. That are actually just one universe with 12 dimensions.

Lambda and Bern created and destroyed thousands of universes in their fight.
>>
>>100710511
>>100710288
>>100710111

>copy pasting off outskirtsbattledome.

its like you completely ignored everything posted. you didnt even edit the copy pasta at all
>>
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Power Level fags getting pissed off they wasted their time in an obvious troll thread, even after OP told them it was a troll thread and he was going to keep fucking with them.

Delicious.
>>
>>100710609
Tenchi's placement is correct there. And you clearly didn't watch the OVA. Tenchi didn't create the multiverse, the Chousins did that. But he's beyond the Chousins who ultimately found are shown to be nigh omnipotent/omnipresence/omniscience instead of fully omnipotent/omnipresence/omniscience. Tenchi's powers extends beyond the multiverse shell and reaches hyperdimension, which exists outside it and beyond all time and space. Since Tenchi is truly omnipotent, he has no limits.
>>
>>100710157
All I know is that she's not the top of the Japanese power level rankings. They're pretty accurate as long as they aren't talking about /co/ stuff.
>>
>>100710752
It is my understanding that there is an implied paradox similar to what Demonbane has for it's creation story.

Tenchi Created the multiverse so that the multiverse could create him sort of thing.

Honest to go the only difference I have seen in their HAX is that Demonbane is Lawful retarded with JUSTICE, and Tenchi is Lawful Neutral with naivete.
>>
>>100710609
The Witches can only influence the meta world. Furthermore, there is never confirmation that what happened in Seacats is even real since r07 left it ambiguous on purpose.
>>
>>100710752

He's an omnipotent within his tiny setting.

Why the hell should he be above omnipotents from 1000 times more impressive settings?

If anything he should be on the same level. Definitely not higher.
>>
>>100710752
>to be nigh omnipotent/omnipresence/omniscience
I can't take any character or work seriously when they do this. It never makes any sense, and Tenchi is not an exception.
>>
>>100710829

Wrong. They can influence real world fine. Real world is lower than Sea of Fragments. They play around with the Sea of Fragments.

Lambda was granting wishes for fun because she was bored.
>>
>>100710851
That is the thing. As I understand it the thirteen dimensions of the Tenchiverse are a sort of Klein Bottle effect, and that once Tenchi transcends he is able to shatter it, and expand infinitely.
>>
>>100697650
http://myanimelist.net/anime/306/Fagmaster
>>
>>100710907
Once again, it is not confirmed that they are real and that the events actually happened that way, even on Prime. It's silly to put Witches above Tenchi.
>>
>>100710825
Don't think that's the case. The Chousin wanted to prove an existence who's superior to them, and they found that existence after infinite time experimenting. Think of it as a system under a supposed all-powerful God and whatnot. Countless time and space distortions may create a possibility of a bug/anomaly that might surpass the system. That's what they did basically.

>>100710851
Wrong. He is shown to be beyond the shell. The Chousins are master of the shell, not Tenchi. Tenchi is truly infinite and all-powerful. There's no suggestion that he can make his own multiverse that's infinite.
>>
>>100710940

This is still nothing compared to settings like Eternity Sword.

Like Narukana and her Null that is the counter to mana and forces of creation. To the point her existence can destroy the multiverse in an instant if she just lets her power loose.

Not some tiny multiverse with 12 universes, a multiverse with infinite billions of them.
>>
>>100710994

That's still not explaining why he's above omnipotents from settings infinitely larger than his.
>>
>>100710968

They were already real back in Higurashi.

The next WtC will also have Voyagers.
>>
>>100710994
Which leads us back to the question of who created the Chousin. Tenchi once he transcends exists in a nonstate outside of creation while being the complete master of it. Time ceases to be a function in a way we understand it and he would perceive all time space and dimensions at once. Even the ones that do not exist would be visible to him because simply by looking for something that didn't exist it would exist. If he is in this state he would notice what existed before anything existed and in turn create it. This is a pretty basic Argument for Eternity, and fundamental to understanding Demonbane. If Tenchi exists at the same level or higher than Demonbane he should be able to do this unless it is explicitly stated otherwise.

I mean I could be completely wrong here and misunderstand the basic nature of God Tenchi, it was my understanding that he was at least that powerful.
>>
Just to clarify for some people, the general hierarchy is thus:

Omniverse
Hyperverse
Xenoverse
Metaverse
Multiverse
Universe

The two big ones you need to know are Multiverse and Omniverse. Multiverse is what we're talking about with multiple universes with an defined number. Omniverse encompasses all multiverses in its definition.

There are technically higher verses as well, but they aren't used often in fiction.
>>
>>100711038
>>100711086
Stop wanking ESS. As a fan of that series, what you're doing is seriously obnoxious and only creates backlash.

Naruaka can destroy a universe that contains a container of universes, not a multiverse. Big difference here. And just because she can doesn't mean she's omnipotent or close to it. The way she would destroy one of the Cosmic Balancer's universe is only due to her nature and how it affects mana.

Only the Singular Shinken is tie with Tenchi, on the assumption that it is omnipotent.

Tenchi is omnipotent. He Is all-powerful thus there shouldn't be anything he can't do. He could easily destroy the Time Tree and the universe that it resides in, it's within his power.
>>
>>100711262
Tenchi is Xenoverse at best, we haven't see feats proving otherwise.
>>
>>100711262

Yeah, no. That's just Tenchi fanwank.

Choushins are only suspecting he's the true omnipotent and what he can do. We never see any feats backing it up. And his entire multiverse is just a drop of water in the ocean compared to many series out there.

And it's true Null Eternals are not real omnipotents, but the are the ultimate destroyers.
>>
>>100711212
>Hyperverse
>Xenoverse
>Metaverse
And what retarded fictions even use this level of nonsense? I've never heard of this outside of Suggsverse-type shit.
>>
>>100711433
It's not really fiction, just a branch of physics study.

I believe Marvel delves into it though.
>>
>>100711396
How would they stack up against the EGD?

Provided it is aware of them. I add that caveat because when something is canon God breaking broken it can kill something provided it has mean time and surprise. It's that who batman/superman thing /co/ is always babbling about.
>>
>>100711449
Metaverse is dealt with in a lot of cyberpunk fiction.
>>
>infinity plus one is greater than infinity!
Guys. Really.
>>
>>100711433
Is that you Chartfag?

>Placing Kenshiro higher than Mr. Satan

Nope, just another troll
>>
>>100711449
So physicists are mucking about with theoretical levels of universes built like fucking matryoshka dolls? At what point do they decide to give up making new names and levels for these things?
>>
>>100711579
...Why on Earth would Kenshiro be below Mr Satan? He can turn intangible and disintegrate people by moving through them.
>>
>>100711623
Well Metaverse exists in a form today. It is pretty much a baby, but as technology improves it theoretically holds to potential to become another state of existence.

>>100711665
Kenshiro is tough alright, but Mr. Satan is the Strongest Man in the World™
>>
>>100711281
What he can't do is not shown or stated. By his nature, it'd be a paradox to say he can't do something he wanted. It's best to just leave it at that.

>>100711396
They proved it with their experiments. To be greater than them can only mean that the existence that is Kami Tenchi is truly omnipotent compared to them who are nigh omnipotent. Being above and omnipotent to the Chousin is adequate feats enough. He can do everything they can and more. And since he has no limits and his powers goes beyond the multiverse shell and is at the level of hyperdimension.

Size is irrelevant to an omnipotent. How can you not get that?

Thus Narukana and other rank 1 wielders are far below Demonbane, who's one step below Tenchi.
>>
>>100711761
You ignored my question Tenchifag.
>>100711180
>>
>>100711732
>Well Metaverse exists in a form today. It is pretty much a baby, but as technology improves it theoretically holds to potential to become another state of existence.
I don't follow. Are we talking about a concept of multiple multiverses, or something else? If it's the former, how the hell have they proven it?
>>
>>100711810
I think it was silly of anon to order Metaverse in with the others as a sort of power ranking, because it doesn't work like that. It would be in the special rank.

The Metaverse is a collective virtual shared space, created by the convergence of virtually enhanced physical reality and physically persistent virtual space, including the sum of all virtual worlds, augmented reality, and the internet.

It is a 'verse in that it could potentially be infinite and discrete from our reality once technology reaches a certain theorized point.
>>
Honestly the biggest problem with this list is that many of the "powerlevels" aren't the levels of the individuals but of the special powers they have. IE Many of then can't take a punch but have some super mega death cannon move. This list makes sense if called "maximum damage output" but not "powerlevel"

After all some people (say Goku) can take a hit, dodge attacks, ect. while others can't and that's not really accounted for. If another regular person could use the same power to the same degree then it's not that person's powerlevel at all.
>>
>>100711894
Wow. That's some Lain shit right there. It's a bit too much for me, but that at least seems a bit more pertinent than universes within multiverses within whatever else ad infinitum. Thanks for explaining.
>>
>>100711901
For the most part I agree with your statement. At least right up until we get to the top tiers. They are reality warpers who can pretty much do as they please and ignore what they don't. Nobody really argues about much else other than exactly why one omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent creator god is better than the other, exept people who really want their favorite character to be recognized as being equal or greater than the most bullshit hax characters. That is usually where those glass cannons you are talking about show up show up.
>>
>>100711901
Characters with particularly disparate power output vs durability should go in the Special tier, that's part of the reason it's there. Hence Shiki and Lina are in there.
>>
>>100712011
See it is just in it's infancy right now, but the theory goes that at a certain stage of technological development, god knows how impossibly far away it is, it will no longer be limited to physical storage, and exist as a form of energy that transcends our physics and universe becoming it's own unique existence with discrete rules and logic divorced from ours.

Think of it as a potential man made heaven or hell where all consciousness that is uploaded to it will become it's own god. That is a really simplistic way of looking at it since it is just a theory and we don't even know how it will one day actualize, or if "life" within a metaverse could even be called life as we know it.
>>
>>100689478
this is shit and whoever made this should kill themselves, holy fuck thats wrong.
>>
>>100712033
>>100712116
Well some of them have active protection and others are true glass cannons. If being stalked by say True Assassin would be a bad match-up then that should be reflected since True Assassin isn't strong enough to be on top of the chart.

If it's just their Super MAGIC HAX that puts them up high them put the power not the person. More so when many of the strong characters aren't really that good in a fight.
>>
>>100712175
It's a troll thread obviously.

We discuss metaphysics and scientific development now.
>>
>>100712194
Again I agree with you, but then you get characters like EGD and Tenchi where their super magic hax is their nature. That is what most of the top tier character are, completely broken. I do agree that the chart is very simplistic and we could do with a more involved system to accurately gauge and measure the strength of characters. Chartfag has done some to try and improve it, dividing the chart into three tiers, but since no one else has come up with a better system this is what we have.
>>
>>100711807
For such a small wall of text, your post didn't register in my vision at all. Demonbane is not omnipotent, but its powers is close enough to make it seem that way given its powers and scale that it operates on. Its nature is impossible yet possible, and have and forever will always be. It's beyond time, space, causality, and exists anywhere. Still not omnipotent.

But to your write up, we don't know and probably won't for certain. What we can say is that the Chousins came into existence or rather, have always existed. Or maybe Kami Tenchi did create them for reasons unknown to us. Hyperdimension is home to the Chousins, yet they can't see or know about Kami Tenchi. We could surmise he lives in a dimension above even hyperdimension, therefore can perceive past, present, and future and besides being all-powerful, can be everywhere and know everything like the Chousins do, ablet on a truly omni scale.

You know Al Azif is top tier in my waifu harem, but that doesn't mean I would favor Demonbane in this matter. Tenchi being above Demonbane is simply appropriate. That's all.
>>
>>100712329
How about just have a Max/Min or defense/offense level and the average is where they sit. Or just put the special power and not the user. SS4 Goku is not Goku since he can't maintain that state forever So put SS4 Goku not just Goku.
>>
>>
>>100712443
Well everyone on the chart is marked based on their maximum level of performance, it's assumed they'd be going all out. Consequences to any theoretical fight isn't really important, so long as they can win, or at least perform in that manner, however temporary it may be.
>>
>>100712441
Well this all ties back in with an argument I am crafting about what true omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence are. But the core of my argument is regarding whether or not it is canon that Tenchi is truly OOO, and if he is how his perception(and I am just using that word as a placeholder since my argument involves a concept I had to invent and if I use it here I will have to describe it) of not just probability, but impossibility would cause everything to distort.

I would beg to differ on the nature of EGD but that is part of my argument I have been working on for about two weeks now and haven't yet finished crafting. It will probably be several text limit tl;drs and heavily influenced by my own mental illness and my time in seminary.
>>
>>100712654
Since this chart shouldn't cater to g/mary-sue all powerful never losing type (They'd all go in special) it should be reflected how many of them aren't 100% always on super hax. I'm not saying all the strong guys are really weak, but many of them don't reflect the person just the power. Just like the Mecha are listed and not the pilots who bring out the best of the mecha.
>>
GioGio should be higher. Pretty sure he's stronger than Yuki Nagato.
>>
>>100712443
Then you have cases where a character is completely destroyed physically, but still exists because their nature isn't really tied to reality and they just aren't hurt. How would you factor in a character who is able to be destroyed but can't be?

>>100712828
So the characters that could actually be described as being the most powerful shouldn't be allowed on the list because being that powerful makes them special?
>>
>>100712828
I think it is a given that Mecha are considered a set. Like a weapon user is always considered to have their weapon, and magic user always has what they use to channel their magic, etc. Otherwise you are purposefully gimping characters so that something that is less powerful can win.
>>
>>100712951
The whole mecha issue strikes me as just a technicality. You could say Turn A Gundam, or have Loran on the chart with (Piloting Turn A) marked down, it really doesn't make any difference. So long as it's easily identifiable, then it doesn't matter.
>>
>>100712891
NO, not at all. I'm just saying if a character's power is defense then this list doesn't show it. And if a character is well rounded then this list doesn't show it. But if a character can use MEGA DEATH BEAM then they get the top slot. The chart doesn't reflect weaknesses well is all. I'm not talking about Kyroptonite weaknesses just if they don't have a way (whatever that way is) of defending natural human squishyness then they are weaker than one without. Don't knock down a SUPER MEGA KICK but don't ignore resistance to it either.

>>100712951
Since many magic users (magic girls mainly) are only strong when transformed or after summoning the gods or whatever it's about the same as a mecha being strong but the pilot not. At least to me.
>>
>>100713123
Well again that is where some weird shit happens at the top of the chart. EGD doesn't actually need Daijuji and Al. It can operate without them, and under certain circumstances do better, and in other circumstances do worse.

Honestly there needs to be a separate chart for Gods. I know there is a disperety even among deities, but that level of fuckery and having to cater to it throws the entire rest of the system out of whack. Even if it is a relatively minor God like Illias it still manages to do shit that require the rules to be broadened.
>>
>>100713239
>Honestly there needs to be a separate chart for Gods.
Well the weight division charts are going to do that, actually. It's supposed to be:

-Lightweight: street to planet level
-Middleweight: Planet to universe level
-Heavyweight: Universe and up

So Heavyweight will deal with gods seperately anyway. Assuming it gets made, anyway.
>>
>>100713238
I am trying to figure out which of the top slots you are talking about that is BEAMSPAM MCDOUCHEBAG and doesn't have a broken defensive ability too. I guess LoN could be considered one if you think of it in terms that it can be stopped pretty easily if someone cuts Lina's throat while she is asleep. But this isn't really an accurate metaphor since they are listed separately.

Sorry I am making no sense, I have been up for two days now and my brainmeat is set to rot.

>>100713476
There are characters that could be considered Gods that are not universal in scale but could potentially break the bracket they are in. Illias, Maduka, the Moon 2hou.
>>
>>100713563
Well the ones who are broken but not universal should probably just be in the special bracket anyway. Or not at all, as the case may be, depending on how vague their powers are.
>>
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Something about that chart always bothered me, so I made a small edit.
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>>100713966
>Alucard
2/10 you got me to post acknowledging your attempt to troll.
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>>100714046
>troll
You clearly have zero fucking idea how broken omnipresence is.
>>
>>100714097
I do, I am a demonbanefag. That said at that level he is surrounded by reality warpers who are capable of negating his existence. not just removing him from reality, but making it so Alucards father was never born, and his mother was a greek.
>>
>>100713966
Anti-Spiral and Gurren Lagann should top the chart, with Anti-Spiral a bit higher.

And please add Neo Granzon and Cybuster somewhere there.
>>
>>100713563
All the God Teir are the same to me, I don't have much problem there. It's mainly mid-teirs, the Sakura's and the Eulciwood's.

If I could post a metaphor, Everyone always says the FLASH is super broken but every story he's in has him taking a punch. So if I wanted to say he's as strong as Superman I would be saying he can take a Superman Super punch too. He can't. Since many of the Mid-teirs are the same and can't dodge everything they ask yourself if they could survive an exchange of blows from the person next to them. Some can but others can't.
>>
>>100714189
>Mechafag
>Knows nothing about mecha
>>
>>100714158
And that's why Demonbane is slightly higher. The only thing that is more powerful than Alucard with omnipresence is Demonbane because he's the only one who can fuck with Alucard.
But I say this only because it's not made clear if Alucard is not bound by time, though the definition of omnipresence says he shouldn't be.

>>100714189
No, fuck you, they deserve their spots, and I'm not gonna do anything else with this list unless I completely remake it.
>>
>>100714251
The point is that Tenchi can do similar things as Demonbane, and so can several other of the top tiers.

There are lower tiered characters that can destroy the entire universe and everything in it except themselves and find a new place to live.

Alucard is very limited compared to the monsters that are at the top.
>>
>>100714365
>Alucard is very limited compared to the monsters that are at the top.

He literally has the same power that makes Demonbane bullshit, though at a slightly lower level no inter-dimensional that we know of.

Explain to me how anything else on that list save other omnipresents.
>>
The list is complete shit. None can tell the difference of their strength when the power gap is fucking narrowly apart from each other.

>Hurr Durr Demonbane infinitely stronger than Alucard
>Puts Alucard on a barely-noticable gap of 1 fucking micrometer.
>>
>>100711433
Most, if not all, cosmic universes are just universe, multiverse, megaverse, omniverse. Xenoverse and hyperverse really don't mean shit and nobody uses them.
>>
>>100714460
Void Shiki
Saitama
Lain
>>
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>>100714511
Here.

>>100714540
Not even close. None of them can affect things on an instantaneous universal scale.
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>>100714614
I miss read you question. I thought you were asking for character that were not omnipresent that could defeat Alucard.
>>
>>100689478
move up hao for fucks sake, he's omnipotent
>>
>>100714614
That still has Tenchi down at that level when he should be at/above/or below EGD.
>>
>>100714750
He should definitely be below.
>>
Why are people putting Alucard so high? He has no offensive power to go with his omnipresence.

I mean, he get the power from that shota, if the shota was so strong then why did he need to get eaten to zero out Alucard?

Whatever.
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>Getter ≥ TTGL

my sides just blew up
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>>100711433
Is Zelretch really weaker than Arc? Is it because he's gotten weaker with age? He did pull off an upset victory against the Crimson Moon and all.
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>>100714848
>Size=Power
Nope

>>100714780
I am not Tenchifag so I am not going to make his arguement for him, just going to say that anything EGD can do KamiTenchi can do. They just do it different ways.
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>>100714848
You were saying?
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>>100714901
>I am not Tenchifag so I am not going to make his arguement for him, just going to say that anything EGD can do KamiTenchi can do. They just do it different ways.

Except the size and scale of their domain, and all that they effect are entirely different.
>>
>>100714952
I had this discussion with Tenchifag above, and he presented some very compelling arguments about that very subject. You should go read them
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>>100714614
Hao is omnipotent, he can do anything instantaneously. The great spirit is supposed to represent god
>>
>>100715039
I don't even know who Hao is, but if he's omnipotent there's no point even putting him on the list.
>>
There has got to be a better way to rank these characters than this fucking mess of a chart, like seriously somebody should actually organize this because the way it is is completely autistic right now.
>>
>>100715065
Tenchi is also omnipotent.
>>
>>100714883
>Is it because he's gotten weaker with age?
Yes, pretty much.
>He did pull off an upset victory against the Crimson Moon and all.
Which took everything he had and it was still an underdog battle. I'm not really sure if he should be on there, considering how little we know about him, but it's fine as is.
>>
>>100715071
I was considering it, but I realized I would never bother finishing.

>>100715116
Since when?
>>
>>100715071
Well that isn't the chart, that is anon trying to move characters around on an old out of date image that countless other anons have already fucked with to put his special snowflake higher.

Even with Chartfags official three charts it is still a mess.
>>
>>100715150
since always
>>
>>100715150
Since he became KamiTenchi.
>>
>>100711433
Shouldn't Gil be a weapon user instead of soul power?

Saber might also fit better as a half weapon user. Shirou might be better off as a reality warper, rather than under the special category.
>>
>>100715001
You mean this whole string of arguments, right?
>>100711180
>>
>>100715142
Well, even with the little we do know from Rin's show in HF does give him a pretty good standing. Throw in his position as "Wizard Marshall", meaning he's mastered magecraft and he should be a pretty strong fuck.

I wonder if he'd be stronger if he indulged in his bloodlust.
>>
>>100715211
Yes there was an on and off exchange for a while.

>>100715193
There are a lot of mistakes with affinity classifications.
>>
>>100715169
>>100715179
Not according to any wiki, so fuck yourselves. The most we get is "he might be that powerful" which is fucking stupid.

Work with what you have, not with what you might have, or what might happen in the future. That's what so god damned stupid about these lists is "well there's theories that say..". From the looks of it, nigga is barely around Goku and Bills.
>>
>>100715311
Okay the Chousin are explicitly stated to be nighOOO Gods, and they acknowledge that KamiTenchi is above them in power. Beings whose power can not be measured saying something is more powerful than them is a pretty good indicator that he is more powerful than Goku or Bills.
>>
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>>100689478
Here I thought /a/ knew shit about Chinese cartoons.

>TTGL on the same level as Demonbane

TTGL isn't even the size of a universe, Demonbane destroys universes by simply existing because it grows faster than the universe can.

You seriously think TTGL is even an ant compared to Elder God Demonbane?

You got fucking Sakura Kinomoto way too high, she's not beating people who are FTL Star busters, let alone people with universal defenses and attacks.

Jesus Christ what the fuck are you serious why is Bills higher than Nonon and Battler/Beatrice. Whoever made this needs to kill themselves, NOW.
>>
>>100715311
>Goku, Bills
Since when could DBZ characters go back in time to pick up chicks and ensure that they would get killed in the future so they could come back and pick up said chick and then resurrect to make out with a divine entity?
>>
>>100715065
that just puts him near the top.
Fuck this chart has gone downhill recently
>>
>>100714614
>Alucard that high

Uh why?
Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you people?
Are you massive fanboys or just this fucking ignorant/
>>
>>100715407
It isn't the official chartfag chart. It is an anon attemping to push his snowflake to the top.

Chartfag uses a trip and maintains three separate charts.
>>
>>100715039
This guy is lying by the way.
Trust me, I also read Shaman King.
Hao has minor reality wrapping INSIDE the great spirit, not outside. He's FARRRRRR from omnipotent
>>
>>100715507
He IS inside the great spirit you retard, and it's not "minor reality warp" at all, it's the ability to do anything you desire
>>
>>100715507
Which is why chartfag doesn't adjust anything unless the anons that present their arguments in a clear well defined manner with evidence to back their claims.
>>
>>100715558
He can only affect shit in the spirit.
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>>100714614
Sakuya above Kiss-shot.
Err, what?
>>
>>100715598
The entire fucking premise of the show is that you can act out your will on the world if you become the shaman king. hao became the shaman king, and the analogy to god is made many times throughout the manga
>>
>>100715668
I'm seeing lots of talk, no scans though.
>>
>>100715668
Where is your evidence? You want to know why the top tier are up their? Because the proof was submited, verified, and rankings were adjusted. Doesn't change anything if you do post in this thread as it is a troll thread and Chartfag isn't even here.
>>
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>>100715791
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>>100715901
Continue
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>>100715901
I hope you have more than a character statement.
>>
>Not atleast having Netero listed
>>
>>100715951
>>100715932
What exactly do you want? An image of him doing EVERYTHING? Everything till that point stated that shaman king can do anything, two people are defeated just by looking at him from the very beginning, and the patch leader goes batshit insane. I don't know how I can prove he's omnipotent as that's not possible to illustrate.
>>
>>100716043
Just post some of the best shit he can do.
He has to have some sort of feats right? It's not all talk?
>>
>>100716077
why the fuck would that be relevant? why'd he destroy a galaxy to defeat the small fries he's fighting?
>>
>>100716043
Post pages that provide a frame of reference. Explain the significance of his actions with verifiable feats. Shit I could post a page from Ichi the Killer with Kakihara saying he is god, that doesn't mean he would rank above Mr. Satan.

Demonbane didn't get to be top dog because some anons claimed that a shitty character from what was then an obscure eroge didn't bring their /a/ game. His legend was built with evidence of his greatness.

I bet your Shaman King doesn't even fuck lolis.
>>
>>100716177
Unlike TTGL, hao doesn't have much of an opposition. the minute he becomes shaman king, his opponents simply fall over defeated, the hero is killed and brought into his soul, and they talk things over.
Pic related, that's all the strongest individuals in the series just falling over simultaneously.
This isn't the same as someone calling themselves a god, the premise of the show, all characters, and very strongly implied by everything all suggest he's omnipotent
>>
>>100711433
>Rance
I don't recall him being that much more powerful than a regular human
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>>100716103
So..he has no feats? You just went off a character statement?
>>
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>>100716363
He has the feat that he instakills the entire cast of heroes?
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>>100716297
Okay the thing is there are multiple characters that are on the chart that are considered Gods. Some of them are even pretty weak, but the fact is that they have demonstrated exactly why they have that position. Without any gauge to measure something how can you say it is powerful or not?
>>
>>100716386
So the extent of his power is a crater and that some characters who you have provided no frame of reference for claim he is too powerful?
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>>100716452
No, that's not the extend of his power, that's the power he needed.
That's what I'm saying, how am I to illustrate that he is omnipotent unless someone puts an omnipotent enemy against him?
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>>100716386
Mako created a crater too, doesn't make her omnipotent
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>>100716510
Just show what he can do, if he hasn't shown anything that says he's omnipotent, then he isn't.

It's as simple as that
>>
>>100716510
thatsthepoint.jpg
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>>100716568
That's a fucking retarded point.
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>>100716568
kami tenchi never does anything to imply he's that powerful either
>>
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>>100716618
>MUH SNOWFLAKE STRONK
prove it
>HE SAYS HE STRONK
prove it
>AH CAN'T PROVE IT WHY WOULD HE USE HIS POWERS
that's the point
>AH MAD
>>
Hao's positions on the charts is based on his most impressive showing, which was a supernova, IIRC.
Omnipotence always has been and always will be a terrible argument, and should never be made in these threads.
>>
>>100715507
Uh, no, Hao is actually exclusively defeatable inside the great spirit, since other shamans can act on the power in there.
>>
>>100716644
Other than be acknowledged by three omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Goddess as being more powerful than them.

If you want the characters you posted claiming him to be God you should give some frame of reference. Have they demonstrated top tier power and acknowledge him as being stronger?
>>
>>100716530
I honestly wouldn't be suprised if all the characters gained near omnipotent powers near the end, this show seems like it's going the way of TTGL where everything is just going to escalate a fuckton.
>>
>>100716766
Well Mako has demonstrated toonpower already, so it is conceivable that give enough challenge she could asspull her way into a special ranking.
>>
>>100716731
>Other than be acknowledged by three omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Goddess as being more powerful than them.
Well, not omnipotent, as it turned out. Nonetheless, they were demonstrably powerful that if they even moved slightly they could shatter the entire universe Tenchi and Z were in, and probably some other things I'm forgetting as well. Plus a bunch of author statements.
>>
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This is the last one I have like from a month ago, last week they were really fucking that shit up with mystic power/physical power and some shit, tiers, the lightweight idea was good tho.
>>
>>100716867
Yeah I haven't seen Keeper of the Charts in a few weeks. but last I saw he was using three. Any single chart that is posted is outdated as fuck, and more than likely mangled to hell and back by anons.
>>
>>100716867
This one is still pretty bad.

Archangel gaberial can move any object within the galaxy (Including stars/moons/etc) so there is no way Arcueid is above her since she's just one planet.

Fiamma is above Arcuied even more so, and above AA Gabriel.
>>
>>100716867
I never noticed Winfield was above Kenshiro, is that new?

Winfield is fast as fuck, and an amazing fighter, but he can get hit, and the moment Kenshiro connects it is over.
>>
Does that one delusional GERfag still post in these threads? That guy was a riot.
>>
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>>100716936
>>100716948
>>100716977

shit shit shit shit, posted the wrong one, that's the lightweight one some anons were doing a couple of days ago.

Here's the one I was talking about. It's obviously not perfect tho.
>>
>>100716867
I was going to say
>Alita above Vash
But then I realized that Angel Vash is a separate ranking.
>>
>>100717050
Lain should be in the special category.
>>
>>100717050
Sailor Moon is too high.
Sakura Kinomotro is WAY too high, god damn.
Honestly I don't think GER could beat TTGL/Antispirtal sort of people, but that's actually debatable at least.

Battler/Beatrice should be much higher.


Hmmm but yeah I think this may be the best one I've seen in the thread, not perfect though, far from it.

Oh also Aurelous Izzard should be much lower, much much lower.
>>
Uhhh these desperate TTGL fanboys.

Listen up and listen good. TTGL is not the strongest character he acts a gate keeper for the top of the charts.

Basically in order to kill him you have to be a reality bender/time traveler/capable of destroying the universe with a single attack AND be able to travel many times faster than the speed of light (or freeze time)
AND have the immortality or natural toughness to survive his gravity/heat field

If you are missing even one of those steps you cant fight TTGL
If you arnt immortal or indestructible his gravity/heat field kills you before the fight even starts
If you arnt faster than light or a time stopper he will punch you out of existence
If you arn't a reality bender/universe destroyer/time traveler you cant damage him
>>
>>100717176
It's the a chartfag original with a little bit of tampering. No where near as fucked up as the others posted in this thread, but good enough for now.
>>
>>100717050
Shouldn't the Touhou timestop maid be lower? I mean, Arc for example won't go down no matter how many knives she throws and while I haven't watched Slayers, I've come to understand that you need to kill Xellos in two or three separate dimensions to harm him.
>>
>>100717336
>I haven't watched Slayers
Anon, what the fuck are you doing with your life?

At least tell me it is in your backlog.
>>
>>100717050
Why isn't Touma on that chart? He managed to beat vento, so he should be ranked higher than her.
>>
>>100717432
Go pls
>>
>>100717403
Watched like 6 episodes of the first series and just kind off... never continued.

>>100717432
You blind, nigga? Top right.
>>
>>100717481
I guess it is kind of hard to get into that style of humor if you didn't grow up with it.

>>100717432
He's there
>>
Why is Arceus so high anyway? Didn't he get beaten up by a meteor shower?
>>
>>100717620
Reality warper, power of creation, God of it's universe. It is too high in my opinion, it should never have been raised above the TTGL barrier.

Durability, and attack power too low.
>>
>>100717740
and statistically the equivalent of like, 3 other random high-level pokemans
>>
>>100717773
I don't into Pokemon all I know is the anime so I am going to have to take your word for that.
>>
>>100716320

In Rance universe, levels are real things that you have. Everything has a level cap that varies. I think for normal humans, the level cap is 15. For higher beings, it can be in the thousands.

Rance doesn't have a level cap, and in some games, you can actually level up Rance infinitely until you get an insane level.

He also has a rank in Swordsmanship at 2, which makes him a legendary swordsman. If you have a rank of 3 in something, that makes you as close to being a "god" of that practice as possible.

There is only one other person in the Rance universe that can beat Rance in sheer power with the sword, and that is if Rance is being his usual lazy self and doesn't grind to level a billion.

Rance has fought demons, gods, and angels. Just about the only thing he can't defeat is the creator of the Rance universe, basically, who said Rance's most powerful attack felt like nothing more than a bug bite to him.

Also, Rance is currently inflicted with a curse so that whoever he has sex with, increases their level cap.

His children also don't have a level cap, so his one son and daughter can level infinitely as well.
>>
>>100718673
>Just about the only thing he can't defeat is the creator of the Rance universe, basically, who said Rance's most powerful attack felt like nothing more than a bug bite to him.
>him
I thought Alice, i.e. the eponymous Alicesoft, was the creator of the Rance universe.
>>
>>100718857

I suppose what I meant is the giant whale creature the created the world the Rance games take place on.
>>
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>>100718673
I don't even like Rance, and Reset makes me smile.
>>
>>100718673
Games with stats are automatically at the top of the chart due to cheat engine
>>
>>100689478
>Still no Non-Fiction for Kumagawa
Why is this never fixed?
>>
>>100720341
Because that isn't the actual chart. You are in a troll thread.
>>
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>>100718857
Alice-chan is the narrator or the reader.
Something like that. She never appear in the actual stories.
>>
>>100716320
>>100718673
>>100718909
>>100719102
>>100719328
>>100720567
So I heard there is muscle wizard. Hypothetically speaking if one didn't know what words to use to search for English translations of the Rance series what would one need to google for?
>>
>>100720671
Ludo-never-deliver.com
>>
>>100705349
I'll concede that she'd wreck DBZ, but only because her ability in and of itself is so powerful. She isn't a martial artist who relies purely on hand to hand skill, she's just got an incredible power that she can exploit.

And the huge difference between her and Frieza, Cell is that the both of them don't rely on broken powers to to win their fights. When they punch you, it's entirely the force of their own strength amped by their ki. Not some ability that identifies their targets or something. If they both blow up a planet, it's not due to an ability, but entirely do to the concussive force of their ki blasts.

Neither Cell nor Frieza are ability users, they're martial artists who disable their opponents with pure hand to hand skill.
>>
>>100721575
>DBZfag trying to say it's villians don't beam spam

TOP KEK
>>
>>100721629
>implying ki blasts aren't also a part of martial arts

The very use of ki in and of itself is a martial art. And practicing martial arts regularly greatly improves ones ability to harness their inner ki. Using ki is all about practice and learning to manipulate it, not about exploiting some overpowered ability.

"Beam spam" isn't an ability, it's just another martial art.
>>
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>>100721759
>MUH MAGIC BEAMS AREN'T MAGIC CAUSE THEY TRAIN THEM
Tell me more
>>
>>100721858
No, it's not magic at all, it's ki manipulation, which is a martial art. Ki isn't magical, it's entirely natural and literally exists in all of nature.

You have to be incredibly skilled just to be able to manipulate it enough to fly, let alone fire off blasts.

Next you're going to tell me Ryu's Hadoken is magic, and not just another form of martial arts he practices.
>>
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>>100721759
>"Beam spam" isn't an ability, it's just another martial art.
Are you rusing me anon?
>>
>>100721947
>ITS NATURAL TO BE ABLE TO FLY AND BEAMSPAM YOU SEE THERE ARE THESE THINGS CALLED MIDICHLORIANS
Continue this is highly amusing
>>
>>100721947
>Ki isn't magical, it's entirely natural and literally exists in all of nature.
So is mana. You just have to be incredibly talented if you're going to make fireballs out of it.
>>
I am saving every word of this to use as copy pasta. This is absolutely brilliant.
>>
Saiyajins aren't even human and they DO have a bullshit abillity to powerup when they're in trouble so it's a completely pointless discussion even if Ki wasn't somehow essentially the same as magic.
>>
How the fuck is Gemini Saga lower than Bills, Dark Shneider or Arceus?
>>
>>100717050
You should add Momoyo next to Goku (or a little lower) since she is pretty much broken and still has undeveloped shit.
>>
>>100722064
>>100722098
From Kanzenshuu

>Chapter: 153, P11.3
Piccolo: “Oh, so you can use Bukujutsu, huh? You seem a little confident in your ability. But your half-assed dabbling in the martial arts will cost you your life.”

>Chapter: 237 (DBZ 43), P1.3/P3.6
Context: giving Kuririn the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Genki-Dama. Yes, ki that I gathered bit by bit from all over the Earth. About half of it got away, but I think there’s enough to beat him as he is now. [ ] Do it, Kuririn! Gohan couldn’t control such power.”

>2. Bukujutsu [#BO1#TPR]
Chapter: 428 (DBZ 234), P1.1
Gohan (to Videl and Goten): “Well then, I’ll be teaching you two Bukujutsu, or in other words how to fly. This is just a matter of ki control, so it’s not very difficult. Well, if you’re thinking of flying at fast speeds, then that can be pretty tough.”

>Chapter: 428 (DBZ 234), P4.8, P5.1-2
Context: as Videl learns to control ki
Gohan: “That’s it, that’s it! That’s what ki is. I figured you’d catch on pretty fast Videl, since you practice martial arts.”
Videl: “Hah! Hey, can I fly yet?!”
Gohan: “Eh? That’s still no use. You’ve got to become able to freely control your ki.”


Ki is natural and exists in all of nature. Harnessing ki requires great effort and is made easier if one practices martial arts. Flying in DBZ is a martial art, Bukujutsu. So yes, beam spam and flying are both martial arts, using natural energy.

There's nothing magical or hax about it, nor is it an ability. It's training and focus.
>>
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>>100722624
You are beyond redemption
>>
>>100722624
>MUH NOT MAGIC IS EVERYWHERE AROUND ME AND I NOT MAGICALLY CHANNEL IT IN ORDER TO FLY, FIRE BLASTS, OF ENERGY AND TELEPORT
Fascinating
>>
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>>100722624
>Spiral Power is natural and exists in all of nature. Harnessing Spiral Power requires great effort and is made easier if one pilots a Ganmen. [...] So yes, Giga Drill Breaker and Lagann Impact are both martial arts, using natural energy.
>>
>Implying The Flash wouldn't kill them all
>>
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>>100722624
Do you seriously believe that martial artists can fly and shoot fire balls?
>>
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>>100722624
>The Other is natural and exists in all of nature. Harnessing The Other requires great effort and is made easier if one utilizes a grimoire. [...] So yes, the Mirror of Nitocris and Elder Sign are both martial arts, using natural energy.
>>
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>>100722624
>Contradictions are natural and exist in all of nature. Harnessing contradictions requires great effort and is made easier if one is a Lawyer. [...] So yes, Objection! and Hold it! are both martial arts, using natural energy.
>>
>>100722774
Where in TTGL does it mention anything about using martial arts, or pulling Spiral Power via training and focus?

Because that's what happens in DBZ, you don't suddenly gain power from some godly robot, you train your powerlevel, like a typical martial artist does.

Please anon, don't start calling anything in TTGL martial arts when that's not once hinted or implied.

>>100722827
If that's what the series itself calls it, yes. And again, Ryu isn't using magic when he shoots a Hadoken, he's harnessing his inner ki through training and martial arts.

>>100722915
Feel free to show me whatever series you're talking about that uses mana, magic and makes it clear that the use of such requires mana/magic control and is made easier by martial arts.

Magicians aren't martial artists, they're magic users who summon the arcane arts and all that good shit. Goku and co. train their bodies and minds to harness their inner ki, using it as part of their martial art.

They aren't magicians, they're martial artists.
>>
>Prana is natural and exists in all of nature. Harnessing prana requires great effort and is made easier if one practices magecraft.

Also, Nen.
>>
>>100723079
So it's martial arts as long as it's called that?
Huh, guess I'm a black belt then.
>>
>>100723079
>Feel free to show me whatever series you're talking about that uses mana, magic and makes it clear that the use of such requires mana/magic control and is made easier by martial arts.
Literally right there in the post you were referencing
>>
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>>100723079
>you don't suddenly gain power
>DBZ
>>
>>100723088
Nen is akin to ki, as made apparent in HxH and many other series like it. Increasing Nen is done by training and focus, and is almost always used as part of ones martial arts.

>>100723157
If that's what the series consistently calls it and is based upon, yes.

>>100723175
It's not magic, it's ki. My post didn't say they use magic or mana, but ki.

Read the post again and point out where it says anything about magic or mana.
>>
This turned out way better than I was expecting.
>>
>>100689478
I don't see Yuki nagato in that image - she should be near-god tier, since she created a whole universe to appease someone that wanted a "normal" life.
>>
>>100723278
Again, do you seriously believe that martial artists can teleport and read minds?
>>
>>100723410
That's pretty small time though.
>>
>>100723436
If that's what's in the source material. From what I just posted from the manga, the answer is a resounding yes.

It's fine if you don't like it, but that doesn't change what's firmly established in the canon.
>>
>>100723599
Right. It essentially magic by another name then.
>>
>>100723706
No, it's ki, not magic. Quote the post where it says "magic" or "mana" and you'll have a point.
>>
What we really need is someone to objectively go in, and make three charts for this: Power (special), Power (phisical) and Power (overall).

The reason for this is because the power outputted by things like Gurren Lagann is via Simon and Spiral power - it is just a conduit/vessel for Simon's power, so it would be a special.

Nabeshin is a special, because he is a director and therefore, can change the universe to his will.

Takamachi Nanoha is a very powerful mage, so she would go under power (overall), and probably be lower-tier to someone like Lina inverse, but higher than, say, Caster.

Lina inverse would be on both the special and the overall power rankings, because of her being a conduit for the Lord of Nightmares.

This is my observation, and I think it would make things a lot more sensible and "realistic" for how things should be ranked.
>>
>>100723846
Then do it. No one is stopping you
>>
>4 charcters from Medaka Box in the special tier
For what reason are Medaka Box characters so broken?
>>
>>100723967
Mostly because everyone is broken after the first couple chapters.
And popularity.
>>
>>100723925
Don't have the time right now, else I would. I was just being a casual and thought the thread interesting, and thought I would add in something to help keep the thought process going.
>>
>>100723278
Nen is fucking magic. It does whatever Togashi wants it to. It can conjure up guns, swords, and little fairies that follow you everywhere and are indestructible. You can also create a wormhole in a table to punch neglectful fathers from a distance.

Magic requires training and focus just like ki, and is often completely natural, so saying ki isn't magic because ki requires those things is stupid.
>>
>>100723988
But Medaka can master anything to 110% just by listening to the ability's description, Iihiko is like a level 7 Touma, since he can nullify any magic or special power, Kumagawa can make anything nothing and Ajimu is Ajimu.

And Devil Cool Zenkichi isn't even there.
>>
>>100724093
If Medaka reads about Demonbane's power, does Demonbane become Medaka?
>>
>>100721947
This is actually true, my old karate teacher could do a small kamehameha and levitate
>>
>>100723967
More like,
>One Punch Man in the Special tier
Why even bother with some shitty flavour-of-the-month joke character like that, anyway?

Then again, this whole chart is fundamentally ridiculous, so whatever.
>>
>>100724068
Nen isn't magic, it's Nen. Togashi doesn't call it magic, nor does he say you need to summon it from the cosmos or a ritual or something. He says everyone has energy in their bodies, but that only those who are truly skilled can harness it through intense training and focus, very much like DBZ.

Magic is magic, Ki/Nen are Ki/Nen. Both ki and Nen are generally used by martial artists as an enchantment/extension of their style, magic is generally used by magicians.

Martial artists =/= Magicians.

And don't bring up Hisoka as a magician. He calls himself that but he trains and everything the exact same way as everyone else does to harness Nen. He doesn't draw circles on the ground and do chants or something.

>>100724163
Your martial arts teacher is a fictional manga character?
>>
>>100724264
>MUH MAGIC ISN'T MAGIC IT'S SPECIAL
>>
>>100724264
no, kamehameha literally exist in reality and all of nature. baka gaijin
>>
>>100723967
They actually aren't. They appear to be, but Medaka Box's laws are so fucking screwed up.

Aijimu - Pretty much God because she has so many skills.

Kumagawa - Erases things from existence, even things like damage or his very own death.

Iihiko - Pops up and kills the supposed God of the series with a rubber band merely because "since when were you under the impression Skills work on me?". Literally what? Also, his damage is irreversible. Kuma couldn't erase it.

Medaka Box shouldn't even be on this list. It's too ridiculous to even try.
>>
Anyone have the Type-Moon chart? Been looking for that for a while now.
>>
>>100724305
Neither Togashi, Toriyama, or any other Mangaka that uses Ki/Nen refer to it as magic, they refer to it as Ki/Nen.

If it were magic, they'd call it magic.

But hey don't, because it isn't magic.
>>
>>100724326
The thing is that since that exists as a manga it is an idea, and if it is an idea there is a universe that impossibly works under those exact laws. If that universe exists Demonbane is also in that universe.

If Demonbane is on the list anything can be.
>>
>>100724326
Discussion about medaka box always amuses me since I dropped it before it became a combat manga, and this shit sounds ridiculous based on the original premise
>>
>>100724264
>He says everyone has energy in their bodies, but that only those who are truly skilled can harness it through intense training and focus, very much like DBZ.

You can say that exact statement about Fate/stay night. A popular franchise about magic and magical beings.
>>
>>100724415
Would a turd by any other name smell like shit?

>>100724450
I dropped it when God got killed with a rubberband. After all the bullshit I put up with in the last story arc I just NOPEd and deleted my folder.
>>
>>100694497
>Vash the Stampede over Gilgamesh
>>
>>100724506
I should have dropped it after the Minus arc.
>>
>>100724529
Angel Vash is a planet killer
>>
>>100724501
Type-Moon don't refer to energy in Fate/Stay night as Ki/Nen, nor do they claim using magic is a martial art, or call their fighters martial artists.

>>100724506
In this case, the turd's been established as a turd, just like Ki/Nen have been established as Ki/Nen.

You're the one who's claiming that the turd is actually piss, even though it's clearly a turd.
>>
>>100689478
>the bottom half is full of people with absolute hacks as powers
>implying half of the people in the bottom half are weaker than the top half

This isn't in any order, right? There's no rule for the higher you go, the stronger they are, right?

Because otherwise, this is entirely bullshit.
>>
>>100724687
>MUH KI

>>100724699
Higher is stronger, but that isn't the real chart.
>>
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>>100723757
Point to how Ki is any different from any magical energies in other works
Protip: You can't.
>>
>>100724829
The very fact that Ki isn't called magic, and that it tends to be used exclusively by those who practice martial arts in fiction, rather than magicians.
>>
>>100724829
But you can train Ki you can't train magic. Try trolling hard anon.
>>
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>>100724264
So it's like Ripple, right?
Which is also essentially magic.
>>
>>100724905
>you can't train magic
Get a load of this faggot.
>>
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>>100724905
>>
>>100724925
Ripple isn't Ki, it's a Ripple. Last I checked nobody in JJBA is a martial artist, just ability users.

>>100724996
Magic tends to be used by magicians, and not martial artists.
>>
>>100724996
You can't it's a fact. Goku had to tain his Ki to the point where he would be able to reach Super Saijin by thinking hard. Some wizard is able to cast magic just because they want to. To completely different things.
>>
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>>100725076
>It's not magic since it's called something else!
>>
>>100725107
Right, and Goten could do Super Saiyajin without any training.
So I guess that's magic too or what?
>>
>>100724687
Prana (magical energy) is life force.

Mana is the life force of the planet. Od is your very own life force.
>>
>>100725153
Correct anon. If the creator wanted it to be magic, he'd call it magic.

But he didn't, he called it Ki and made it the primary source of power for a bunch of martial artists, not magicians.

>>100725218
Cool, but it isn't Ki, nor is it used by martial artists. It's magical energy used by magicians.

Martial artists are martial artists, magicians are magicians.
>>
>>100725208
No that is the result of being a Saijin. They are naturally able to use Ki better then anyone else because they are more naturally gifted. But that doesn't mean that doesn't make them true martial artists. Being gifted doesn't mean anything if you don't train and no how to use that power.

That is why Goku is the best character ever.
>>
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>>100724687
>or call their fighters martial artists.
At least read the damn thing before you spout shit.
>>
>>100725107
>Some wizard is able to cast magic just because they want to.


Stop that. Mages must train themselves to use magic.
>>
Sakura >> Goku


LEL
>>
>>100725302
Right, and magicians are naturally able to use Mana better then anyone else because they are more naturally gifted.

It's all semantics. Both Ki and Magic are used to explain why characters can do supernatural things. It's the same thing with different flavor.
>>
>>100725341
If they had to train it wouldn't be magic. Seriously all you trolls and haters can just quit already. We have estabished that Goku is the most powerful, but you keep saying he isn't because your only argument is that he isn't the most powerful because he uses Ki instead of cheating and using magic.
>>
>>100708455
Fucking this.
People seem to think their reality warpers za warudo bullshit would work. What'd happen most of the time would be STTGL's opponent getting wrecked before he understood the fight began.
>>
>>100725295
You said ki is natural energy and exists in all of nature. Prana is exactly that. Harnessing it requires training. There is no difference.
>>
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Naruto is a better martial artist than Goku and Chakra = Ki = Nen.
>>
>>100725419
No Ki is something you train inside your body and occurs in nature. Prana is just magic.
>>
>>100689478
please don't post the jpg version
>>
>>100725413
But DIO isn't even powerful on that chart anon.
Compare TTGL to a reality warper if you want a real comparison.
TTGL loses you faggot
>>
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>>100725401
>>We have estabished that Goku is the most powerful
>>
>>100725307
Ok, then prove me wrong. Fate/Stay nigh is a bunch of martial artists and not magic/special ability users? Pretty sure it was the other way around.

>>100725419
Well, that doesn't really change my point, which is that Ki is used by martial artists who rely on hand to hand combat. Prana sounds like it's used by a bunch of magicians or special ability users.

Unless like what >>100725307 is saying, they're actually martial artists using hand to hand combat?
>>
>>100725467
>Naruto is a better martial artist than Goku
He doesn't use martial arts. his fighting style ultimately boils down to 'I'll knock you out with one good punch/attack'.
>>
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>>100725471
>No Ki is something you train inside your body and occurs in nature
Prana is is exactly the same.
>>
>>100725495
Do reality warpers have smaller reaction time than Flash ? They will need it.
>>
>>100725591
No Prana is magic and Ki isn't otherwise they would call Ki magic.
>>
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>>100725559
>Prana sounds like it's used by a bunch of magicians or special ability users
Aaaaand it's revealed that he's basing shit on assumptions, ladies and gentlemen!
What an evening!
>>
>>100725582
It all boils down to this

Goku dies
fanboys cry

Naruto is still kicking ass
>>
>>100725495
Every chart posted here is fucked up. Everyone with reality bending or space time altering powers should be at least at the midway point.

No amount of strength, magical, physical, etc can beat anyone with a reality bending/space-time manipulation ability. It's absurd.
>>
>>100725623
Don't compare YOUR own vision of time to a person who can bend time.
Study some metaphysics or Einstein's theorems and you'll get my point. We see time this way because humans sense it according to their lifespan.
It's amazing if you think about it.
>>
>>100725643
He's baiting so hard.
>>
>>100725678
Not him, but flash can travel through time and has ripped through reality before.
>>
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>>100725688
a master baiter
>>
>>100725643
Is my assumption valid, or incorrect? Are they all a bunch of martial artists styling all over each other with kicks/punches/counters/grabs/energy blasts, or just magicians/special ability users?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
>>
Saged, just stop before it gets out of hand.
>>
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>>100725688
Stating a fact
>Baiting

4chan logic
>>
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>>100725652
I-I'm not talking about who wins at all!
No wonder you don't even have a girlfriend, you don't pay attention at all. BAKA BAKA!!
>>
Is Negi Springfield in there?
>>
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>Ki isn't magic
Holy shit I just got here. What else did I miss?
>>
>>100725678
Distorted time and these kind of things are interesting, but what can you do against an enemy who travels 10^30 kilometers per sec ? You get drilled within 10^-30 sec, before you even understood what's happening.
>>
>>100725720
Ripping through reality=/=understanding the flow of time.
Just because you are really fast doesn't mean you can think that way too.
Now picture someone who has studied and learnt about time and abuse it to bend it.
His own perception of time would be the principle of the universe, and make 1 second a whole 100 years or backwards.
It just works m8
>>
>>100724434
>>100724136
>>
>>100725806
Ki is ki, magic is magic.
>>
>>100725733
Come one anon, you can do better than that.
>>
>>100725076
>Last I checked nobody in JJBA is a martial artist, just ability users
>implying loggins ,messina, straits, tompeti etc arent martial artists
>>
>>100725724
Read it yourself you faggot and then come back instead of making assumptions.
>>
>>100725820
>Just because you are really fast doesn't mean you can think that way too
But the Flash CAN think that way. One of the flashes actually died because he couldn't do that and couldn't go as fast as he wanted because his brain couldn't keep up.
>>
>>100725891
He's right

why so butthurt?
>>
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>>100689478
I hope you all are old enough to remember how this went the first few times around.
>>
>>100725467
>Naruto
>martial arts
>>
>>100725844
Martial arts are Martial arts, Ki is Ki.
If it was the same it wouldn't be called Ki.
>>
>>100725939
3/10
>>
UR NOT SUPER SAND
>>
>>100725895
But can he go slower than a human person's time perception?
>>
>>100725862
Don't even try.
It's obvious that he doesn't know shit about anything.
>>
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>>100725917
You're not even trying anymore.
>>
>>100725974
He's straight up trolling.
>>
>>100725939
Read >>100722624
>2. Bukujutsu [#BO1#TPR]
Chapter: 428 (DBZ 234), P1.1
Gohan (to Videl and Goten): “Well then, I’ll be teaching you two Bukujutsu, or in other words how to fly. This is just a matter of ki control, so it’s not very difficult. Well, if you’re thinking of flying at fast speeds, then that can be pretty tough.”


>Chapter: 428 (DBZ 234), P4.8, P5.1-2
Context: as Videl learns to control ki
Gohan: “That’s it, that’s it! That’s what ki is. I figured you’d catch on pretty fast Videl, since you practice martial arts.”
Videl: “Hah! Hey, can I fly yet?!”
Gohan: “Eh? That’s still no use. You’ve got to become able to freely control your ki.”

Flying is a martial art in DBZ, which is centered around ki control, which is made even easier if you practice martial arts.

Frankly, this discussion has been over for a while now, anons are just bored I guess.
>>
>>100726041
If Ki (Qi) is a martial art in DBZ, magic can be a martial art in fucking any other thing?
That's your what everything you ever typed is based around.
Solely "What I think is true and DBZ is 100% true".
But that's not truth at all.
>>
>>100725966
czech em
>>
>>100726092
this
>>
>>100726041
>Magic is a martial art in FSN which is centered around prana control, which is made even easier if you practice martial arts.
>>
>>100726092
Don't bother. He's either clinically retarded or trolling.
His entire argument is based on a wording.
>>
>>100710806
>Japanese power level rankings
I'd like to see this.

Also, why are Madoka and Akuma Homura in Special Tier? Why are people like the Shiki's and Touma? Why does special tier even exist?how is Madokami's reality warping unable to be ranked when Lambadelta and Featherine are? What makes them special? I mean, Shiki vaguely makes sense, since, in theory, she'd be able to kill any of the people on the list, but she's still just human. Void Shiki is a bit more confusing, but she's still a reality warper.
>>
>>100726092
I haven't been given a series using magic that calls it martial arts though, so there's no argument to be had.

And Ki/Nen/Chakra are very similar to one another, in that they tend not to be used by magicians or ability users, but martial artists/people who strongly rely on hand to hand combat.

>>100726181
Is prana control referred to as a martial in FSN by Type-Moon, or at least shown being used by people who rely primarily on hand to hand combat? If not, there's nothing left to say on the matter.

>>100726213
Trolling really shouldn't be this easy in that case.
>>
>>100726285
Why haven't you read it yet if you're discussing it?
>>
>>100726285
But it's not a martial art outside of dbz son.
>>
>>100726285
Martial arts include armed combat.

So much for your knowledge on martial arts.

>>100726285
>Trolling really shouldn't be this easy in that case.

You must be new here.
>>
>>100726395
>Hurr but Toriyama called it that so it must be true!
>>
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Holy shit can the retards stop replying to the other retards and the trolls and let this thread die?
>>
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>>100689478

I'll never understand why people think Yuki Nagato is so powerful. She has no real power. Anything that she has ever done was just merely leaching power off of an unconscious God and nothing more.
>>
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>>100726285
Jesus this kid can spout shit.
>>
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>>100726500
But I want to see how far he'll go to defend his shitty delusion?
>>
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>this thread
>>
>>100726374
Why not answer the question about the series like I have about DBZ? Most people here likely didn't even know that flying and ki control were a martial art until I posted from Kanzenshuu.

>>100726420
Whatever, point is, magicians almost never use Ki, Nen, Chakra, but magic or something else. People who use Ki, Nen, Chakra tend are almost always hand to hand fighters, who may occasionally use a weapon as well.
>>
>>100726655
They are not martial arts outside of dbz.
Son.
>>
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>No Powerman

Shit list
>>
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>>100726655
>Qi is frequently translated as "natural energy", "life force", or "energy flow".
>>
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>>100726655
>Most people here likely didn't even know that flying and ki control were a martial art until I posted from Kanzenshuu
Yeah teach us some more of your ways o great anon. Enlighten the path.
>>
>>100726655
If a magician used nen/chakra/ki he wouldn't be a magician but a martial artist. Please keep to your story shitposter-kun. I believe in the you that believes he can kill power level threads.
>>
>>100726655
>magicians almost never use Ki
So now it changed to "almost never". It seems like he's slowly learning something.
>>
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>>100726801
>kill power level threads
>>
>>100726772
Oh noes what have you done anon.
>Concepts similar to qi can be found in many cultures, for example, prana and cit in Hindu religion, mana in Hawaiian culture, lüng in Tibetan Buddhism, ruah in Hebrew culture, and Vital energy in Western philosophy
>>
>>100726693
Rather, DBZ characters are simply extremely powerful martial artists. They can do certain things that many other martial artists can't, just means they're that much stronger.

Unless you're going to claim that just because Kenshiro can explode people with pressure point attacks, yet somebody from Shamo or History's Strongest Disciple can't, it invalidates Kenshiro's style as a martial art?

>>100726801
What?
>>
>>100726924
Wait. Keep this DBZ related anon. We use YOUR logic here, remember?
Ki isn't a martial art, neither is flying.
>>
>>100725775
Whoa, man, you don't have to be mean.
>>
Magic>Ki
Prove me wrong shitposter-kun

Seriously I would fucking love to see the bulkshit you can come up with. These jumps of reasoning are making my brain tingle.
>>
>>100726924
>They can do certain things that many other martial artists can't
Sooo, like magic right?
>>
>>100727004
Ki control is a martial art in DBZ, along with flying.
Blowing people up with pressure points is a martial art in HNK.

Just because martial artists in another series can't do something the above can do doesn't invalidate said style as martial art.
>>
>>100727129
Don't get out of DBZ world anon.
Implying you are right, which you aren't, you are just claiming that an art can be solely based on the exponentiality of possibilities. Which would mean that EVERYTHING IN LIFE is a martial art, according to dbz.
That's not how it works son.
>>
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>>100727129
Yeah guys try to listen to what he's saying.
Tea Ceremonies are a martial art in Ranma too and he uses Ki too!
>>
Shitposter-kun what does the great Toriyama say about Dragon Balls? Are the magic or do they run off of Ki?
>>
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>>100726924
>Martial artists in real life can't fly and shoot energy blasts because they're weaker
>>
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So if Flying is a martial art in DBZ are the planes and birds then also martial artists?
>>
>>100727349
No because you need to use Ki to be a martial artist.
>>
>>100727384
So regular people doing Karate aren't martial artists since they can't harness their inner power?
>>
This thread is such a fantastic train wreck of not giving a fuck that I had to bring it with me when I left home.

10/10 thread of the year.
>>
>>100727429
No they are true martial artists, but their power levels are so low they can't even shoot fireballs or fly.
>>
>>100727512
Alright so why aren't birds and planes martial artists since they CAN fly?
>>
>>100727577
They can't shoot fireballs.
>>
>>100727577
Because they didn't train their Ki to learn to fly, they were born that way so it is magic.
>>
>>100727639
Wait but Videl could fly before shooting fireballs.
Isn't she a bird then?
>>
>>100727658
What if Goku flies in a plane?
>>
>>100727743
Goku can't drive anon.
Get your shit together.
>>
>>100727739
Obviously she is a transcendent bird magician of the highest order.
>>
>>100727781
How much Ki do you need to train in order to get a learner a permit?
>>
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It has been a pleasure gentlemen.
No. Fuck you and this thread.
>>
>>100726735
>pins the undertake at mania
Nope
>>
>>100727231
You're making this needlessly complicated anon. In DBZ they can do certain things with their martial arts that that other martial artists in other series can't, and vice versa.

Doesn't suddenly invalidate said styles as a martial art.

>>100727330
That, and they're not fictional manga characters.

>>100727349
If birds in DBZ or planes were able to freely harness and control their ki, yes. However, they can't.
>>
>>100728065
But you said that Ki exists freely in nature, so birds should have access to it too.
You're contradicting yourself.
>>
>>100728065
But Ki is in all living things. Wouldn't birds use Ki to move and fly even if it is at an extremely low level?
>>
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>>100721575
I find your interpretation of broken powers somewhat arbitrary. When Kanata fights, she uses her boxing techniques to win, but she's also superstrong naturally. DB characters don't just use technique and training to win, they all have broken innate powers. Saiyans naturally grow exponentially stronger every time they're severly hurt, and special saiyans have the potential to unlock more powerful forms. Freiza was born with innate super amounts of power and the ability to increase it with different forms. Cell has all of the above and can regenerate from almost nothing. Buu has most of the same and can turn his enemies into candy as well as absorb them to add to his own powers.
The humans of Dragonball are the only exception, the only ones who actually train to boost their power and technique to keep up with their enemies, and the fact that they can't keep up with the above broken powers shows woefully.

I really can't agree with your opinion on the matter, but never mind.
>>
yo man fuck this noise im out
>>
>>100728175
Anon don't try.
He's talking about birds right now.
>>
>>100728239
I know. I just wanted to clarify that I can't agree with his interpretation of the issue. The thread is almost dead anyway, it hardly matters now.
>>
>>100728152
I was speaking about DBZ, anon.

I'm sorry for being unclear, I just assumed that because we're in a powerlevels thread talking about fictional characters, the assumption would then be that I'm also speaking purely fiction, and not real life.

>>100728156
Birds don't harness their inner ki to boost their flight, they simply use their wings and the wind. The ability to control ki is a martial art. Just because you have ki doesn't mean you can control it unless you train yourself.
>>
>>100728152
Well yes technically they use Ki to fly so birds are martial artists. Planes on the otherhand use innate invisible magic to fly, so pilots are magicians.
>>
>>100728290
Does Buu use magic or ki?
>>
>>100728290
What if a birdman becomes a pilot?
>>
>>100728336
Ki to fight magic to make candy.
>>
It's almost as if none of you were in those chartfag threads oh wait
>>
>>100728283
>Birds don't harness their inner ki to boost their flight
How do you know? I don't think that was ever stated?
>>
>>100728358
Can he harness Ki?
>>
>>100728383
its almost like you need to shut the fuck up nigger
nice dubs check mine
>>
>>100728373
Wait, so does Vegeto use Ki when he turned into candy?
Does that mean that candy are martial artists too?
>>
>>100728175
Her power to destroy planets and stars doesn't seem to be an actual martial art, or part of her own physical power, but purely an ability. You said she's able to see planets and stars are "enemies" and destroy them? That sounds like some kind of hax, rather than "she's so strong she can literally destroy stars and planets with her raw energy and strength."

Like, when Hulk breaks apart a continent or large asteroid, he isn't seeing either of them as "an enemy," he's literally destroying them with his own strength. Likewise, when Frieza is nuking a planet, it's not an ability, it's the power of his own ki force shot out of his hand.

That's why I feel hugely let down, I thought Kanata was that strong a martial artist/hand to hand fighter .
Sadly, she's just another ability user.
>>
>Ryner Lute on the list at all
>Ryner Eris Reed nowhere to be seen
>>
>>100728571
You may want to look up "ability" in the dictionary.
>>
>>100728571
Hulk is so small that his matter shouldn't be able to create the force to break planets, so he must be able to harness Ki too.
>>
>>100728631
Clearly martial arts isn't an ability anon. It's Ki.
>>
>>100728687
Is training an ability or Ki?
>>
>>100728741
It's clearly magic.
>>
>>100728741
It's Ki because a martial artist does it.
>>
>>100728417
Because even though all living things have ki, you have to train in order to freely harness said ki. Otherwise, it just sits inside of your body.

>>100728336
Buu is a magical being, so his candy ray is likely magic. However, his blasts and punches/kicks/etc. are all ki related.

>>100728485
Yes, Vegito is using ki as a candyball. He was so powerful that Buuhans magic failed to fully effect him.
>>
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>>100728571
Well I can't really find much sympathy or legitimacy in your concern, I'm afraid. I know you don't think they amount to the same thing, but they do. The Hulk grows stronger when angry, Kanata grows stronger in the presence of a powerful foe, the difference is superficial at best. They are both destroying things with their own strength, they just have different methods. I'm sorry you don't see it that way.
Also, the Hulk isn't even a martial artist, conventionally speaking, so I'm not sure why you raise the issue.
>>
>>100728810
So candy has Ki?
Interesting.
>>
>>100728810
>candy ray
It's been so fucking long that I can't remember this.
Is this really an actual thing?
>>
>>100728810
So you said if you used magic you aren't a martial artist, and you also said if you use ki you are a martial artist.

WHO WAS BUU?
>>
>>100728912
Yeah, he harnesses Ki to turn people into chocolate.
>>
This shit's still up? Hilarious

>>100716867
>Tachibana Hibiki
>Any Symphogear for that matter
>Anywhere near the level of "planetary"

Nigga what are you smoking. Her best feat is a unison attack that destroyed a small fraction of the moon. Not even 1/8th of the moon. The villain, whom they couldn't even outmuscle? Pulled that fraction out on her own. With her own strength, augmented by the Symphogear she was wearing.

And it KILLED her.

Hibiki can't even fuck with Metallia, let alone any other big hitters far as Mahou Shoujo's concerned. Her placement is the biggest joke. And I actually adore her character.

Be truthful next time. Cutey Honey is capable of far better feats of power and ability
>>
>>100728631
>>100728812
Kanata uses hax, Hulk uses physical strength, like Frieza and all the other DBZ characters.

Which is why I asked, who on that list is actually a stronger martial artists/hand to hand fighter that don't rely on hax or some other kind of broken ability to carry them. And it's looking more and more like SSJG Goku and Bills really might just be the most powerful in that category.

Saitama, Kenshiro, and Shichika don't really come close.

>>100728646
Well, whether he does or doesn't, he certainly isn't using some special ability to do so, just his own strength.

>>100728957
Buu's candy ray is likely magic, but everything else he does makes him a martial artist, including his skill in ki control.
>>
>>100728993
Is it Ki? I'm actually not sure, I'd like to think it's magic, since he's a magical being.
>>
>>100729185
Martial arts is an ability too y'know.
How is it different from any of the other examples? And Frieza was born with the power to wreck planets, how isn't that hax?
>>
>>100729235
He was created by a magician, but that doesn't mean he can do it himself.
He's a pure fighter, beyond his weird physiology.
>>
>>100729185
See >>100728631
>>
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>>100729185
Er, no. Kanata uses physical strength, her innate power augments it. Just like the Hulk's strength is augmented the more angry he gets, and DB characters use ki and transformations/power raising abilities to augment theirs. It's all the same thing.
>don't rely on hax or some other kind of broken ability to carry them
Well it's hardly reasonable when even Dragonball characters don't qualify, I already listed all the bullshit hax they have (including Goku, mind), so I'm not sure what your argument is now. I can only assume you've been trolling all along. If so, good job, you got me sufficiently annoyed.
>>
>>100729529
Anon you're the hero this thread needs but doesn't deserve.
>>
>>100729318
Martial arts isn't hax, i.e all the stuff that happens in JJBA and series like it. Everything martial artists do they do with either their own physical strikes, or inner energy they gain control of through training.

If you destroy a planet because you're just that physically strong, that isn't hax. If you have some kind of special power that sets some kind of rule towards the target or something, that's hax.

Kanata see's a planet as an enemy with some kind of special rule or something and can destroy them. Frieza charges up some of his inner ki, points a finger, and the planet is gone.

>>100729529
Anon, you're the one (or someone else) who mentioned something about "seeing the planets/stars as enemies," which doesn't' at all sound like physical strength, but entirely hax. Had you simply said "she's so goddamned strong she can punch out planets" and left it at that, I'd be impressed.

But then you added all that extra stuff that screams broken ass ability. I'm not arguing she loses to DBZ or anything, just that she doesn't qualify as a marital artist/hand to hand fighter the way Saitama, Kenshiro, Shichika, SSJG Goku, or Bills do.

She's a special ability user who uses her punches to apply her said special ability.
>>
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>>100729746
You actually needs to have sufficient control of your inner energies in JJBA to use any abilities too, including stands.
But keep trying.
>>
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>>100729746
>"seeing the planets/stars as enemies,"
This may be part of the problem, but I might as well mention: her ability can be simply summed up as 'having a strong body' Her power increases exponentially regardless, but she can increase her strength to match opponents when she needs to. Because the guy considered everything in his universe to be extentions of himself, and entities in their own right, she could increase her strength faster to destroy his universe and escape.
I'm not sure if that clears anything up, but she is naturally very strong, she can just increase it like the Hulk, or Saiyans.

I'm not sure if there's anything left to tell you, but she is a martial artist who's power lies in strength more than anything else.
>>
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>>100727004
Wait, that's what this is about? How stupid are all of you?

Martial arts in the fantastic interpretation involves displays of a trained body, mind, and spirit for the betterment of that person. Try to remember in real life, at the core, martial arts is a way of life and a path to seek enlightenment and higher being (and in other cases it was a way for chinks with pitchforks to fight off trained soldiers).

Back to the fantastic. The anon is right. Ki/life energy manipulation is part and parcel of fantasy martial arts. Everything done through this manipulation is also a part of the art. I'm sure someone's posted something from Ranma 1/2 by now.

Contrast with magicians, who are researching to discover mysteries half the time, and merely looking to amass power the other half. The philosophy is different, the energy utilized is usually FAR more varied (where ki can be colored with intent/malevolence/benevolence, mana can be colorless, divine, spiritual, demonic, natural, and a host of other properties). By and large it's training of the mind that allows someone to cast spells, the method varying from canon to canon.

In Type-Moon's verse, martial arts and being a magi are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS. Typically martial arts will be used to complement the development of a magi, but not the other way around (Rin, Kirei, Bazette, Ciel). Everything in TM's regard of the two professions is different, even the energy they draw upon.

Otherwise, Kuzuki' & his cult and all of the families of the Demon Hunter Association would be some beastly fucking magi. But they're not. Ki is ki, chi is chi, mana is outside magic generated by the planet and its contents, odic force (Od/Maryoku) is magic generated inside living beings, and Prana is that same force given directive and intent outside the body (in short, magecraft).

tl;dr a lot of you need to lrn2dbz and DEFINITELY lrn2nasu.
>>
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>>100730318
Exactly the point. It's pure flavor.
Both do the same shit with different explanations.
>>
>>100730261
She's a demon, not a martial artist. Her existence distorted as such somewhere along its way. What she does isn't martial arts as much as direct manipulation of nature due to her OWN change in nature.

And Shiki can still kill her, like he can everything that plays a role in DDD. You guys like to tip that scale way too much.
>>
>>100730516
And Goku's and alien.
What's your point?
>>
>>100730516
You shouldn't go around parroting unfounded rumors, son.
Like Nasu will get around to continuing DDD to prove it either way.



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