Was he evil?
nah, just gay
Only if you're a kitten.
I'm not even going to dignify such an utterly retarded question with an answer.
Probably not. Just a toy that ended up breaking his deal.
How does it feel knowing that Shinji is a twink in canon?
I don't know anything about this "Kaworu" but Carl guy is a jerk
Well this thread ended before it even began.
Just like last time.
Moralistic terms don't really apply to the angels.
There is no right way to act towards Lilith or the Lilim, they are something that simply should not be there in the grand cosmic order of things. The fact that he bothers to get down to a mundane level and interact with Lilim is fascinating. His over all objective is to remove Lilith's existence, but his willingness to go and see what her children are doing and gain insight into them speaks of a level of awareness that isn't present in the other angels.
It is easy to try and impress upon him humanistic qualities, and expect him to uphold basic ethos, but that is a function of your own assumptions being placed on him.
He is an enemy of Humanity in the sense that his goal is to set of a chain of events that will destroy all lilith derived life on earth.
I don't consider him evil though. That implies a sense of malice.
So he's gay, right?
I want to say yes, because that is the joke.
But the more I think about it, it isn't really gay, even if it was sexual. He is something completely other. It isn't just that he isn't human, he isn't even derived from the same origin of life. If he was aware that his actions were sexual I don't think he prescribed any real sense of identity to being male really. It was just the body that he wore and it happened to be male.
Plus fundementally speaking his way of thought is so completely alien that he probably wasn't even aware of the implications of his actions. He wanted Shinji to like him, and through his study of humans he assumed that sexual relations were a high order form of interpersonal relations.
I could be completely wrong though. I have never seen Eva, and this is all speculation based on the things I have read on /a/.
That's a pretty damn good analysis for someone who hasn't watched the show.
We can never even mention Kaworu anymore without gay porn being thrown at us.
For having never seen the series, you have a pretty spot on interpretation of Kaworu's character. Even when he's doing inherently sexual things with Shinji, he doesn't seem to register it as such.
No. Just a tool like evveryone else.
Don't denied it anon, you love it.
Well, I'd be happy to throw hetero porn at you but there doesn't seem to any such thing for Kaworu.
I remember when I made this thread a few weeks ago.
You're never gonna get an answer, OP. Just people going, "lol gay", Kaworufags and waifu wars.
/a/ isn't capable of holding morally challenging conversations.
W-Why would you post that?
At least spoiler it
Thank you. I watched the first episode on VHS when it came out in the 90's and decided that I didn't like it. When I eventually got the internet it was such a thing that was pushed as YOU HAVE TO WATCH usually by people I didn't like online that I didn't watch out of principle. When 4chan was made I ignored the threads for a while, but the memes kept getting thrown around so I occasionally lurked threads. I haven't been in one in probably six or seven years, so this is all based off of things I read a while ago. I am surprised I remembered so much.
>Willingly chose to die instead of killing the entire human race.
Was Jesus evil?
But you did get an actual intelligent answer
It just came from the guy that never watched the series.
Contemporary kaworu discussions are filled with people bitching about their waifus and literal faggotry.
Good to see someone with a shred of respect around here.
Its not a morally challenging conversation you dimwit. Its quite obvious that Kaworu never held any evil intentions or even intended to do what he did. He was rused, you buffoon. He didn't know what was actually in the pits of Nerv and when he realized what was going on he tried to stop it but it was too late.
Someone who is evil wouldn't do that. They also wouldn't show sincere love to someone whose never experienced anything like that before because someone who is evil wouldn't have the capability of showing such emotion. No matter how you slice it, Kaworu isn't evil. There you have your answer. Now go bitch somewhere else.
No just a fictional composite of myths and legends that were appropriated from a variety of cultures and attributed to an ordinary guy.
Truly best angel.
Don't be an asshole. Your post would have been perfectly acceptable, even AGREEABLE if you hadn't resulted in ad hominem attacks.
It is a morally challenging question. Kaworu is a huge gray character in the series and largely an enigma to the viewer. There's PLENTY to debate over.
>Contemporary kaworu discussions are filled with people bitching about their waifus and literal faggotry.
It's always been like that since the 3.0 generals and unfortunately will be the same from now on.
I doubt posts like his will actually happen again with threads like these.
>I doubt posts like his will actually happen again with threads like these.
This entire thread was just an excuse to dump Kaworu porn.
Indeed, now contribute.
Well, at least you were honest about it.
I don't even like Kawoshin so no, fuck this, I'm going to sleep.
He was always siding with the lilin. Take that as you will, before falling over Shinji's dick, he obeyed Seele's orders because he thought that would be the best for the lilin because that was his sample of it. He even admits it in episode 24.
He's like Rei, a tool of the human bad guys then ditches them. None of the angels are evil either. They just want to survive.
And again, I posit that you can not ascribe moral judgements to the alien. Carl's way of thinking is so completely alien to ours that questions of right and wrong go out the window. He isn't just another form of life. His very origins are not the same as literally everything else on earth. It is such a fundamental difference in nature that can be expressed perfectly in the fact that if the origins of his life ever came into physical contact with the origins of our life the resulting reaction is literally explosive.
We are essentially two different ideas created by God that can not truly interact with each other, and understanding goes right out the window. The best possible relation that Lilim and angels can ever have is the one that Carl shared with Shinji. The thing about that is that they both, more than likely, completely misunderstood each other. Shinji probably felt a sort of quasi-romatic attachment to Carl because no one in his life had really bothered to interact with him on that level before, and I can't even begin to speculate on Carl's misconception becase his inherent nature is so foreign to mine that all I can do is assign motivations draw from my own experience to his actions.
Again, if I am wrong call me an asshole because this is all just speculation based on things I have read on 4chan of all places.
Yes, there IS plenty about his character for us to speculate on, but whether or not he's evil is not one of them.
Kaworu is the only sentient angel like that miracle of an anon said who went out of his way to interact with humanity. He's the only one who thought things through, the only one who formed opinions about what he wanted and the fact of the matter is, he didn't want the third impact to happen. What he DID want was to be reunited with his real body and he was lied to about it being in Nerv's basement. Both him and Shinji were being manipulated but Kaworu never had any malicious intent, not even when he snaps a kittens neck in the manga, because thats not in his character to be mean towards others. Yes, sometimes his actions are misguided and he doesn't always understand why they're wrong but you don't call a kid who hurts frogs evil. You say he doesn't know any better.
The point of the matter is, your question was stupid. There is plenty of stuff to discuss regarding Kaworu but you literally picked the most asinine topic at your disposal. Ask that question about Gendou, ask it about Rei. Pick any character who isn't a veritable saint and then /a/ will play your game.
In NGE, he was meant to be that typical misguided beautiful princess alien spy who is naive and is controlled by the insidious secret organization until she falls for the MC and dies in a heartbreaking way sending her beloved into despair. Only in guy wrapping.
After the End CD by Anno, even points out this is basically his role: beautiful tragic character who falls in love and joins the good guys. All Anno did was to genderswap the cliché.
He's not evil, but he can't be completely good either. He was just the guy carrying out Seele's plan.
I'm sure if it really were Adam in terminal dogma, he would have went ahead and initiated 3I. Seeing Lilith made him come to his realization in the first place.
On a side note, what the fuck's going on in this thread?
>Kaworu is the only sentient angel
Leliel, Arael and Armisael were sentient. ALL angels are, but only a few ones tried to communicate and only Kaworu has it easier because he has chosen that form.
Lieselotte from Valvrave is an example of a variant of the cliché explored recently on the for those who don't bother with old mecha.
>I don't even like Kawoshin
>I don't even like Kawoshin
My nigger. I understand the appeal, but I just can't ship it.
Kaworei OTP though.
>Was he evil?
>Still trying to force this.
Shinji will never love you're waifu, get over it.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. All the angels except Kaworu were acting on instinct to get to Lilith, they were being pulled to her like a magnet. Kaworu actually made decisions for himself though.
As an example, the accepted theory is that animals are not sentient and thats why its okay to treat cows and pigs that are raised for slaughter in such awful ways because they don't know they're being mistreated. They don't posses 'intelligence' and only act on instinct according to the people who are fine and dandy with the way the meat industry is. Well, the angels are the same. They were all operating on instinct, not any higher level of intelligence. Kaworu on the other hand was very much sentient.
It's a sad state of affairs when the guy who hasn't even seen the series has the only actual sound argument. Remember, when the other angels tried to communicate? It was shown as abstract, traumatic, and not anything that we would interpret as communication or language.
The question wasn't stupid, it's just that you're intelligent enough to understand the answer.
Shinji likes it and that's all that matters.
>this thread in a nutshell
Angels are sentient. They aren't "animals" but human beings who chose another form. They are hives and have another way to see things. They value power over science but they EXCEL at evolve themselves because of their thought processes go this direction.
Finally one with Shinji topping.
I don't even know what the hell's going on anymore.
I just want Shinji to marry Kaworu, so we can have a sitcom of "How did I meet your Mother" starring the Ikaris and the Angels.
Yuko. M pls
So ... they're exactly like animals.
And they are not human beings who chose another form. They're an entirely different race. I'll spell it out:
Adam and Lilith are essentially carriers from dying planets. They were sent out to repopulate a different world. There weren't suppose to be two carriers on a single planet because of the exact conflict we see throughout the series. The species Adam carried was more technologically prone whereas the species Lilith carried was more raw power.
This will always bother me. I know he was meant to fall in love with Shinji because lel MC, but why can't they have him interact with someone other than Shinji?
In theory, Kaworu fell in love with the Lilin race, anyone with a broken heart (all of eva characters) would suffice to show Kaworu how "beautiful" humans are. So why is Anno still forcing Kawoshin down our throats?
I don't even want him to interact with others for shipping purposes, I just want him to talk to to others more. I want him to develop himself as a character other than Shinji's exclusive item.
They aren't humans at all if I understand this correctly.
They maybe sentient, but you can't automatically ascribe humanity to something that can not be human. I know there is idea that things like monstergirls or what not are "human" because they think and feel and act similar to us.
That concept doesn't really apply to the Angels. They have awareness of self, so yes they are sentient, but everything else about them is so foreign that we can not understand it.
Maybe Carl is the little princess trope with gender subversion that anon mentioned earlier. But if we are going to treat Eva as if it is this DEEP story we need to try and analyze it without preconceived notions based on storytelling conceits.
They are not human because they never came from humans or anything humans evolved from, or could potentially evolve into.
There is Adam and there is Litith. Two different types of life that were never supposed to end up on the same planet if things had followed their creators wishes.
Shit happened and they ended up together. One "won" and it's children inherited the earth, the other "lost" and it's children didn't appear for millions of years.
Again I am not to sure about what happened to make one the loser and one the winner. I think Adam is on the moon, or part of him is I can't really remember. If some anon would remind me I would appreciate it.
Think about a pure alien waifu mecha princess. They are all loving, artistic, sweet and considerate but naive and easily manipulated. MC shows them the way.
Ground that to Eva. That's Kaworu.
Pic related and Kaworu noticing Misato when she was spying on him are all the non-Shinji interactions Kaworu's had in the anime.
He's such an important character and yet so one dimensional.
You in the VHS thread?
The point went entirely over your head. Shinji represents the purity of humanity and, indeed, he's the only character aside from Kaworu who isn't off his fucking rocker. Asuka is fucking mental, Rei has problems, Misato has problems, Gendou has problems, even Kaji and Toji have problems. Shinji is pure and thats why Kaworu fell in love with him instead of someone else. He's innocent, fragile, kind hearted and sensitive. He has all the love in the world to offer if anyone would take the time to accept him for who he is but tainted humans can't do that.
But someone like Kaworu who isn't tainted can.
They are officially described as "humans who cast aside human form." Those young Shinji, Asuka and the other Rei that Shinji, Asuka and Rei saw in their mindfuck episodes aren't them but Leliel, Arael and Armisael. They took back a human form to talk to them. If we would have seen Toji's Bardiel episode, it was likely a shota Toji.
No I was not aware of that. I am currently in eight other threads right now, so I don't think I could manage another discussion, although that does look pretty interesting.
>he's the only character aside from Kaworu who isn't off his fucking rocker.
I'm pretty sure shinji wasn't doing too good himself around episode 24.
Because the world around him was trying to taint him. Yes, he was hitting depression hard but thats because no one was capable of accepting him for who he was.
And then Carl came along.
I'll just never be able to get over Shinji's baby penis, goddamn.
I know, but the mecha princess usually interacts with more than one character.
In order to really understand and like a character, it's usually preferred to see how they carry themselves amongst others.
In Kaworu's case we only see him interacting with Shinji. That is my problem.
Then it turns out I was completely mistaken in a REALLY major part of my assumption.
For year I had understood that the children of Adam and the Children of Lilith were life forms based on two radically different ideas designed to seed barren planets with life, and that the reason that the Creators(God, aliens, whatever) made them incompatible was because if somehow these two ideas; massively superior bodies and abilities; Evolutionary growth with the chance for development of high order thought, were to somehow intermix that it would create a form of life that could rival the creators.
Turns out that was all wrong.
>Shinji represents the purity of humanity.
>The only character who isn't off his fucking rocker.
No. Shinji has problems, huge problems, maybe not as bad as Rei, Asuka, Misato or Gendo, but he's not sane either. He does not represent all of humanity.
>He's innocent, fragile
>He's kind hearted and sensitive
That is exactly the duality with Shinji. He's not sensitive. He's so into his own problems and traumas, he'd rather ignore others when they are feeling down. Remember when Misato was crying when Kaji died? Remember when Asuka was crying over her mother? He didn't do shit. And frankly I don't blame him, it's already pretty hard to deal with those two. But don't go saying he's sensitive because he's not.
He's kind hearted but he's also pretty egoistical. He wants everyone to care and understand him, but he doesn't want to help others when they suffer with their own problems.
Pick one. Just a reminder this is the same kid who jerks off to comatose girls, and kills everybody on the planet because the same girl tells him to fuck off.
Don't compare the angels to animals. They are only comparable to humans. The thing was that, if those avatars they took weren't clear, they were kids. Kids thrown into a post apocalyptic horror without their mom. Kaworu's not the only angel who is 15 or even younger, all of them are children.
If Leliel took a human shape, he would like six or six years old. It's probable the dumber angels they fought were raging toddlers equivalent. None of they can do science, but they have emotional intelligence and they proved it. Kaworu has a disposition for music and art in general.
Wait he was Gay? i did not notices.
So I am confused. I think we are either having a breakdown in communication based on language disparity, My assumptions about the nature of the Angels and Lilim was completely off, or you are fucking with me.
If you could please reread my comment and answer whether or not the Children of Adam, and the Children of Lilith are two completely different forms of life and answer it I would greatly appreciate it.
That one line, 'humans who cast aside human form', is as explicit an explanation as you're going to find in the series, I'm afraid
Well if there is that level of ambiguity then there is no reason to really discuss anything as it will all be pure speculation fanwank.
Humans and the Angels are literally the same thing... only Angels threw away their human forms; Angels have the fruit of life; humanity the fruit of knowledge.
They come from the same place. Adam and Lilith were the same type of alien from the same race.
If they were the same type of alien, from the same race, than why do their children embody fundamentally different aspects of the divine?
Idk if kaworu is gay but I know he's a fucking slow thinking retard
Like I said, Angels have the fruit of life; humanity the fruit of knowledge.
They are cursed to never be able to understand nor live together because of that fact.
Yes I get that, but why the disparity if their origins are two aliens of the same species?
As I understand it Seele's goal is to unite those two traits and elevate themselves to Godhood. If the origins of humanity are the same as angels, then there should already be the potential for that with in them.
I don't know man. The alien mumbo jumbo in Eva was always retarded and stupid.
I'm gonna guess it was just to reinforce "humanity's" (show in SEELE) wish to be able to revolve into higher beings, when they really aren't able to and shouldn't. Humanity should be as it is, anything else is uninhabitable and never should wish to become a god itself. (While humans and Angels are closely linked they cannot be together. That's why Lilith and Adam's merge is called a "Forbidden Union")
I think that point is better addressed in 3.33, with Kaworu saying how, humans can only change the world around them, but cannot evolve themselves.
Damn autocorrect. I mean, unattainable
I would be more concerned out those revolutions anon. They sound dangerous.
It was always kind of obvious that he was a bottom-twink.
Hell he doesn't even wear the pants of the relationship when he's around the girls.
In NGE, sure.
In Rebuild they make it pretty damn apparent that he wants to fuck him.
>character who jacks off to a comatose girl and ends the planet
>self-centered and puts his emotional problems over everyone else's regardless of their own situation
humans and angels are the same thing, they have the same origins. Statistically speaking, they're all the memory-wiped souls of the FAR race that we sent across space 4 billion years ago.
And the angels themselves aren't very intelligent because they've only been around for fourteen years or less. They're basically feral teens and children. A few of them are even infants.
Fanwank aside, I like to think that some of the angels were attempting to create a conversation but the process is too intense and traumatizing for humans due to their hedgehog/individual ego nature.
So Kaworu is a faggot, that's all cool.
But what about Shinji, he's also a faggot, but he jerks off to Asuka?
He's a shit character evil or good.
I don't see the point. You don't whine about Ramiel being OMG EIVL do you?