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How does /a/ feel about Fate/Zero?
>>
>>100635488
Pretty good. 2011 was a good year
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>>100635677
What the fuck are you talking about Fate/Zero wasn't 3 years ag-

>Aired: Oct 2, 2011 to Dec 25, 2011
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One hell of a ride.
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>>100635795
Always throws me off too. Like fuck me this feels recent.
>>
>>100635795
You think that's bad? Geass was eight years ago. Not that you were here for that.
>>
>>100636031
Holy
Shit
>>
F/SN: a bunch of high schoolers fight for the grail and end up liking each otherIncluding Gary Sue if you went Fate

F/Z: Highly trained mages fate to the death and hate each other

Wat
>>
>>100636031
Noooo!
Sthap!
>>
>>100636031
>when I still had dreams
>>
>>100636220
F/SN: Godawful shit written by a hack for the sole purpose of pleasuring otaku penis

F/Z: Actually decent work written by multiple people who actually learned how to go beyond simply writing porn.
>>
I expected for more fighting tho rather than so much talking
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>>100636220
>>100636357
>>
>>100636391
But anon how will you care about the characters?
>>
>>100636357
But F/SN's h-scenes only take up like 0.2% of the novel and they suck.
>>
>>100635795
WOW we definitely do NOT need these kind of cuss inflammatory cuss words here, reported!
>>
Fate/Zero? Pfff, in terms of anime it's probably one of my favorites.
>>
>>100636461
Nobody has ever said F/SN is good on any level.
>>
Pretty good, straightforward adaptation. Also read the VN.
>>
>>100636490
FSN is pretty good on all levels.
>>
>>100636490
I think it's pretty good on several levels.
>>
>people who think Fate/Zero is the greatest thing ever because it had more grimderp than Fate/Stay in the Kitchen.
nope nope nope nope
It's still chuuni shit
>>
>>100636603
Fite me

F/SN was written as just another magical high school anime. As if the Grail would select a bunch of kiddies to be worthy of fighting for it. With that joke cast, Kirei was the only one who really deserved it
>>
>>100636714
It's chuuni shit, but goddamn is it well done.
>>
>>100636031
I was.
I boycotted it.
I still haven't watched it
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>>100636603
According to you, FSN has "pretty good" art.
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>>100636747
I feel bad for all the fun you missed out on. At least you watched Valvrave, right?
>>
>>100635488
fuckin aces
>>
>>100636714
The grimderp was pretty much the same, it had less romance.
>>
>>100636730
But it has always selected kids. Just look at Waver.

>>100636749
But it does. That image perfectly portrays Shirou's emotions from when he first gazed upon Saber.
>>
>>100636805
I didn't really miss out on the fun since I followed the threads while trolling.

I dropped Valvrave because it was boring shit.
>>
>>100636858
But Waver was fucking awesome. The Grail digs fucking awesome
>>
Marathoned it a few weeks ago. Hot damn. That technical animation. And lots of lovable and love-to-hatable characters.
>>
>>100636919
Hence why it selected all the other children. What's not awesome about a worm slut, an all star high jump athlete, a tsundere, and a grail when compared to another tsundere?
>>
>>100636730
>As if the Grail would select a bunch of kiddies to be worthy of fighting for it.
The "kiddies" pretty much selected themselves, man.
>high class magus, representing the Tohsaka family so guaranteed a spot anyway
>living incarnation of the grail, she train from child, representing the Einzbern family so guaranteed a spot anyway
>some kind of eldritch abomination, representing the Matou family so guaranteed a spot anyway

Only Shirou's selection was accidental, except it wasn't because he had Avalon and such.
>>
>>100636644

Yeah, great concept, world building and in the VN, fight scenes.
>>
>>100637190
Yeah, it's a pretty good shounen all around.
>>
>>100637232
>Shounen
Isn't FSN an eroge? Why would it be shounen?
>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEWzge4fwQ4
this right here was fucking glorious
>>
>>100637323

Splitting hairs here, he means in 'spirit' or whatever.

It's still fun.
>>
>>100637323
Because shounen is a genre, not an age demographic.
>>
>>100637323
It's a shounen with sex scenes and more grimdark.
>>
>>100636357
Its like you've never played F/SN. Its just as good as Fate/Zero, just different.
>>
>>100637232
Shounen is a demographic, not a genre.
>>
>>100635488
Something strong drew me back to this to the point of re-downloading it. Something about when Kiritsugu was talking about the fallacies of the honor system used in war just resonates within me.
>>
>>100636714
>chuuni shit
Its fucking anime.
>>
Kotomine Kirei is the most fleshed out villain in all of anime. Yes or no?
>>
So what?

Saber would be a little bitch and destroy 300 lives to save 200?
>>
>>100637556

Dunno about 'most' but he's definitely one of my favourite villains in all of anime and the best character from the actual series.
>>
>>100635924
Goddamit don't make me want to rewatch it again.
>>
>>100635488
Fate/Zero is a fantastic anime anon, as a friend said before, it's really well written.
Hope Type moon make another decent shot in fate series
>>
>>100637556
No. Boils down to a typical psychopath

>muh pleasure
>>
>>100637395
It's pretty obvious he hasn't played it and is basing his opinion on the shit anime.
>>
>>100637461
You think that's deep? Try Ryuunosuke's monologue about how God created the world because he gets a kick out of seeing people suffer or something and how they're all just actors in his play.
His god is Urobutcher
>>
>>100637630
He would be, if not for the fact that he hates it. He has a conscience.
>>
>>100637630

Not exactly, unlike most Psychopaths, Kirei KNOWS the difference between right and wrong, he just doesn't understand why he can't be happy doing good and not bad.

Also, he's justified in asking God why someone like him was even born to begin with, which is why I liked that he wished to protect Angra Maynu from being aborted, it's interesting.
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>>100636357
>>
>>100637630
That's what so great about him though. He doesn't have a complex back story to justify his evil deeds, he just gets off on suffering.
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>>100637715

>that feel when both Caster and Ryuunosuke die happy and Kariya dies slowly and painfully
>>
>>100637859
>most fleshed-out villain
>he just gets off on suffering
I'm sure there are dozens of Disney villains who have that level of depth.
>>
>>100637715
Wasn't deep at all. Just another basic monologue that was shallow. You just described it it those few words. It was just another analogy. I think he took that from Shakespeare too, but not sure. We've heard stuff like that a million times. It wasn't new to me. I actually had a hard time trying to remember what you were talking about
>>
>>100637859
Are we talking about the same character? The guy who did everything he could to just find happiness in good deeds, and could have been considered a saint, only to have everything seem worthless? That Kotomine definitely has a complex backstory.
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>>100637853
that's absolute true, however, F/SN has an interesting story though
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>>100637630

Actually, he isn't a sociopath. That's one of the things that makes him such a well written villain. He is just so sadistic that the only way he can feel any joy is through his sadism, but at the same time he is aware that what he is doing is evil and wishes more than anything else that he could change.

He is a villain that can be sympathized with. Just like pic related.
>>
>>100638067
This is the part of the thread where we discuss how Shiki is the best type-moon girl.
>>
>>100637963
The difference is that it wasn't the whining from some angsty antihero cursing God, it was a mentally deviant character who grasped the truth of his existence and jubilated from it.
>>
>>100637949

Disney Villains don't know they're villains, Kirei does. He knows he's morally wrong but he's like 'Fuck it, I didn't ask to be born this way, time to pursue my own happiness for once'.
>>
99.5%
F/HA
>>
>>100638181
If that .5% is H-scenes then he can fucking skip them for all I care.
>>
I just finished it a few minutes ago, and FSN this past weekend.

I enjoyed them both, Zero Rider is 10/10 bro for life.
>>
>>100635488
i just marathoned it today.

overall pretty good, kiritsugu is a fucking idiot of the highest caliber, I am surprised nobody tried talking some sense into him. Then again everyone who knew him was just as fucked up, ignorant, or too afraid because they would be fucking killed.


Also, the king of conquerors is a fucking boss, tohsaka's dad is a fucking retard dick, tohsaka's mom is a fucking retard bitch, souken should be fucking ripped to shreds for the rest of eternity, kariya should have fucking tried something else rather than being a puppet, waver needed more development.

anything else i missed?

oh yeah, kotomine is just a dick in zero and not the fucking beast he was in UBW or Heaven's Feel
>>
>the entire Heaven's Feel ceremony is fucked up because the Grail fucked up and thought Avenger was a human

Get your shit together you fucking cup.

Also Kiritsugu not calmly explaining to Saber at the end why the Grail had to be destroyed always bothered me a bit. One second of explanation would have been fine, but he just decided to spam his Command Seal and make a panicking, furious Saber destroy what she's been longing for so much.

Lancelot = best Berserker.
>>
>>100638136
Yes, absolutely true that it wasn't one of those typical God cursing people. The character was certainly largely unique but, as was Caster but I just didn't find a deeper or more important message in that monologue than what was at the surface.
>>
>>100635488
he just wanted to be an ally of justice ;_;
>>
>>100638280
>but he just decided to spam his Command Seal and make a panicking, furious Saber destroy what she's been longing for so much.

That's why it was so hilarious.
YAMEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>
>>100638234
>oh yeah, kotomine is just a dick in zero and not the fucking beast he was in UBW or Heaven's Feel

What? I call bullshit, did you see how he was winning against Kiritsugu despite Kiritsugu being able to regenerate and slow down time?

Kiritsugu fucked up Kirei's arm (well Kirei did that to himself kinda') so he couldn't use it, then tried to slice Kirei up and still couldn't kill him.

Kiritsugu only won thanks to pure luck.
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>>100638280
What does Kiritsugu care about the feelings of some bitch who died 2000 years ago?
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>>100638280
>for the power of my command seal i order my dog ....
>>
>>100637715
I really liked the part where he teaches Kirei the concept of pleasure - you contemplated killing your master for a second, thus experiencing pleasure at the mere thought of it
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>>100638393
>2000 years ago
>>
Why didn't Tohsaka just walk behind Kotomine?
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>>100638470
Alright, 1500 or something.
>>
Gilgamesh was nice here. When he spared wavers life.
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>>100638433

I thought it was disturbing when they watched Kariya strangle Aoi half to death, like it was a fun show for them or something.
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>>100637354
I cried manly tears
>>
They stepped up the animation quality quite a bitch.
That was nice.
>>
>>100638366
I meant that his drive for the grail was weird, the intensity of the fight between him and kiritsugu was much less than his fight with shirou, probably because i am comparing the anime with the visual novel. (I only watched Fate/zero)

also i probably fucked up what i was saying, Kotomine is a fucking monster in the fight, i just wanted it to go on longer
>>
>>100638488
> Why didn't Assassin take Ryuudou Temple wherever he wanted to go?
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>>100638595
Fucking Ufotable man, after F/Z and Kara no Kyoukai, they have all my love.

Also I want to marry Yuki Kajiura and have her compose the theme of my life.
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>>100637965
>>100637859
He killed his own wife, how's that for a complex backstory
>>
Ryougi Shiki is a villain?
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>>100638691
He didn't kill her. He just wanted to.
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>>100638691
No he didn't you chinese nigger.
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>>100638556
It was pretty entertaining though.
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>>100638691

She killed herself, he was more sad that she stole the opportunity to do so himself than he was over the fact of her death itself.
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>>100635795
To be fair, it is more like "a bit over 2 years ago."
>>
>>100638556
in the end all was keikaku doori
that scene was awesome as well, but a bit typical for Gen writing
I love his writing though so it's all right
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>>100638737
>>100638740
>>100638818
Oh right my bad I remembered wrong
he has a cute daughter though
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I don't understand the point of the maneuver Kirei uses when he makes the bullet go through his entire forearm.
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>>100638896
Indeed. Caren is olev.
>>
Listening to the
Kajiura Yuki - the beginning of the end
now
the OST is so good
>>
fuck this was 2 years ago?

I really enjoyed fate/zero. 100x more than FSN, probably because it's so much darker.

this fucking scene right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xge81PURUDI
>>
>>100638902
He couldn't dodge the bullet, his frock was only able to protect against small arms fire. So he chopped it and changed its path.
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>>100638955
I want her to exorcise my demons, if you know what I mean.
>>
The scene where Kiritsugu blows up entire hotel instead of dealing with all the magical traps

Now that's an unconventional warfare
>>
>>100639054

But surely if he has time to recognize the bullets trajectory and move his arm in place from where it was, he could just lean to the side much much faster?

Also, why was Kiritsugu unable to stab Kirei? Is it really that Kirei is just that boss?

It seems like Kiritsugu was using obviously telegraphed knife swipes, just seems unlike him.
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>>100639072
I wonder if she learned the same techniques Ciel used.
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>>100638955
Caren is deliciously lewd.
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F/SN Caster is the underrated qt.314 of the series.
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>>100639272
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>>100639276
Suppressing demons with her butthole? I sure hope so.
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>>100639276

Would Ciel be really disappointed in Kirei if she saw his true self?

I'm assuming she respects his abilities and work in the Church, like herself, even though I think she outranks him by far.
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>>100635488
My Favorite
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>>100639272
He used a command spell to just shoot his arm across. It was too fast for his full body.

As for the knife, its actually a lot more badass than the anime showed off. Kirei was blind in his left eye because of the blood, so Kiritsugu was in his blind spot. Since he couldn't see, he used the sound of the air to deflect each strike.
>>
>>100639399
>He used a command spell to just shoot his arm across.

Is this something the Anime neglected to show or did I miss it?

Kirei by all rights deserved to win that fight that fight, I can't believe Kiritsugu had his chance when Kirei was walking away thinking he'd won after the heart punch and Kiritsugu missed with an automatic pistol.
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>>100639544
>>
>>100639544
You see the Command Spell burn away before he swings the arm around.
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>>100639544
He didn't miss.
>>
>>100639544
If you ask someone who has read the LNs about the anime, you pretty much get two responses. One is that they phoned in the Kirei/Kerry fight, and two is that they didn't show Tokiomi's motivations correctly.

(But there was a bit about how he was burning through command spells like water and thus getting around some of Kiritsigu's cooler tricks)
>>
>>100639686
Haven't read the books, but didn't they mess up Berserker somewhat, especially his fight with Saber?
>>
>>100639628

So was Kirei wrong when he believed demolishing the head would work? iirc from what F/SN says about Avalon, Kiritsugu's brain has nothing to do with it.

So Kirei had literally no chance to win, it's a testament to his skill that he still beat the shit out of Kiritsugu like he did.

And I want to see how Kiritsugu was planning to escape the final rushdown Kirei had in store, with the Black Keys thrown to either side.
>>
>>100639636

Well I'll be damned, I'm impressed.

>>100639668

He intended to only graze Kirei's head?
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>>100639808
Destroying the head probably would have killed him actually. Avalon can't save you if you're dead by the time it activates. Kiritsugu wasn't dead yet before the heart regenerated.

>>100639870
He shot him a lot, most of them bounced off the coat though.
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The new anime better not mess it up.
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>>100639915
Kotomine looks so happy there. It almost makes me sad how happy he looks.
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>>100639909
>He shot him a lot, most of them bounced off the coat though.

Ah, I see, you're saying he didn't miss Kirei's head because he wasn't aiming for it?

In retrospect, that really was Kiritsugu's best hope of putting Kirei down.
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>>100639870
Kotomine protected his head, that doesn't mean he missed.
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>>100639915
KOTOMINEE KIREEEI
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>>100640021

I mean when Kirei is walking away, he isn't on guard there because he thinks he's won.
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>>100640101
He heard Kiritsugu and turned around.
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>>100640101
To be fair, Kiritsugu was laying on his side, after having his heart crushed. I don't know many people who could shoot properly in either of those situations, much less both of them.
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>>100639915
Which route/ending do you want, even though you know deep inside it won't happen?

For me, it's motherfucking ending 30 Superhero. Sparks Liner High eat your heart out.
>>
>>100639967
He was probably the happiest he ever was there.
>>
>>100635488
Great series. The dialog between kirei and Gilgamesh actually has a quite a lot of meaning after rewatching the series again.
>>
>>100640155

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSgXOZKSt20

I just watched it again, Kiritsugu seems to graze Kirei's head, which shocks him a little then he blocks the rest of the gunfire.

I'm sure it's the Anime at fault here, but Kirei still missed his best chance at that moment imo.
>>
>>100640296
Mind of Steel is shit. I don't like HF because it has Shirou abandoning his promise with Kiritsugu, but abandoning that childlike dream of wanting to save everyone is even worse.
>>
Hope they don't fuck up Saber Alter and the fight where Saber teams up with Rider.
>>
Can't wait for Jan 30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeGg0uXILcs
>>
>>100640404
Blame bullet spread.
>>
Is there a better foil for each other in anime then Kirei and Kiritsugu?

I love how Kirei tells Shirou in F/SN that Kiritsugu did horrible shit the same as him (if not worse as far as the 4th HGW is concerned) but no one ever got on his case about it because they're all hypocrites.
>>
>>100637556
>Start having these weird feelings about murder n' shit
>Go to da church to see pops n' shit so I can confess my sins and shoot the shit
>He dead
>Start to feel the sads a little that it wasn't me dat kill him
>Feel even worse

Kotomine had a hard life
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>>100640702
Yes, Kirei and Shirou.
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>>100640766
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>>100637395
This. He probably watched the anime
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>>100640744

The followup scene where Tokiomi is fucking outraged and is swearing to Kirei that they'll get the bastard who did it, only for the camera to cut to Kirei who has a complete deadpan expression.

>>100640702

Also, how Kiritsugu was able to feel happiness doing good things but chose not to.
>>
>>100640850
It's actually amazing how skillfully the anime removes just enough of the crucial backstory from the anime that after watching it you think "Wow, I guess I can see how people might like the concept, but it really has too many unsolvable problems to be good. Mediocre at best."
>>
>>100640543

Heaven's Feel is supposed to represent adult hood, so it is only natural that Shirou would outright abandon his childhood fantasies.
>>
>>100641053
Is that why Sakura is so terrible?
>>
>>100641053

But is his epiphany that just because it's impossible to achieve mean it's still worth fighting for in UBW somehow become invalid?
>>
>>100641014
That's pretty much what a friend of mine said after he watched it. Of course I told him about his mistakes and made him play the VN.
>>
>>100641154
Of course not.
>>
>>100641053
heaven's feel and ubw completely outshine the fucking fate route almost to the point that it makes me feel like fate is a useless silly route.


shirou actually gets shit done in ubw and heaven's feel. And for that matter in ubw and heaven's feel he manages to surpass kiritsugu in every single freaking way, I'd be proud of the fucker.
>>
>>100641154
No, it's just retarded HFfags who think that HF's answer is the only one for Shirou despite Nasu intending that the point of the VN is that Shirou has multiple paths in life to choose from.
>>
>>100641208

Maybe the thing we should take from it is 'Make your choice, just take responsibility for them and don't regret them'.
>>
>>100641244
>>100641258
Yeah, the point of Fate/Stay Night is "Don't regret the path you choose."
>>
>>100638280

Because he just sees her as a tool
>>
>>100641053
You misunderstood, in HF he keeps his first ideal "saving is beautiful" that he got from being saved but let go of Kiritsugu's "Save everyone" dream.
>>
>>100641326

What about the Fate route, he doesn't have any grand ideology in that?

I guess the choice to be accepted is Saber's choice to remove the Stone?
>>
>>100641154
I much prefer UBW because of this. That sort of anti-nihilism just makes me moist.
>>
>>100636031
jesus fuck you for this

what am i doing with my life
>>
>>100641418
His goal is to find Saber again. He pursues her relentlessly and they're reunited in Avalon.
>>
>>100641418
Fate's ideology was mainly
>Don't regret your past and walk forward on your own two feet

It had less emphasize on the hardcore ideologies that UBW or HF presented, which was why Shirou was able to ultimately end up breaking free of the reincarnation cycle, hang on to his soul, give God the middlefinger, then head to Avalon to be with his waifu.
>>
>>100641154

Each route represents a different stage of development.

Fate is childhood, since Emiya gets to play superhero and he gets a cool hero (Saber) running around following him. His fantasies go unquestioned because he is a child. You don't question why a child dreams of becoming a superhero.

UBW represents that awkward stage as a teenager where you struggle to discover your own individual identity, represented by Archer (Adult) and Shirou (Child) fighting one another. He wants to be an adult, so he rationalizes his childish characteristics to appears more mature.

Heaven's Feel is Shirou finally becoming an adult, symbolized by him taking Archer's arm, and accepting that his dream of becoming a superhero were merely a fantasy. He has accept the responsibility of being an adult.

What happens in one route has no barrings on the other, as they represent three completely different things.

Fate/Stay Night is a really long coming of age story.
>>
>>100641437

I wouldn't say realism is nihilism, anon. If you accept reality, like the fact that you will never marry your Waifu, you can actually start dating girls who may actually like you.

All I'm saying is, realism might make you lose the 'magic' in life but it's not inherently depressing.
>>
>>100641418
In Fate he's completely deadset on his ideal. It's different from UBW in that he doesn't care and he won't even try to explain to anyone else his ideal.

He shared it with Saber and that was enough to confirm that it's worth chasing after. Compare his mudbath in Fate to the last dead end in UBW where he's swallowed by the mud.
>>
I r8 it F8/0
>>
>>100641543
UBW is positive realism, that's Rin's ideology after all. Don't just try and call HF realism when it's more cynicism.
>>
>>100641326
I'd say it's more like
>Make sure you are mentally prepared to carry out the path that you choose

Kiritsugu deluded himself into thinking he was saving the world and the years of lying to himself strained his psych, resulting in him utterly breaking once he realized his magical solution in the Grail wasn't so magical.
Archer acknowledges in both UC and CCC that even though his job is shit and goes against everything he stands for, the world needs CGs like him or humanity would die.
The Taiga Dojo stresses that while HF is the 'mature' end of Shirou's story, that none of the routes are wrong in any way.

Basically, don't become a superhero unless you can handle the stress.
>>
>>100641479
That only really makes sense with Last Episode, though, and (correct me if I'm wrong) that was only added in Realta Nua, so it doesn't really make sense as something you're supposed to see in the Fate route. (Obviously the foundation is there for it, of course, but it's not as if Fate is incomplete without it.)
>>
So, why is the only consistently good class Archer?
>>
>>100641520
That is one way to look at it, but I disagree with your assertion that Fate/UBW are early stages of growth. LE shows that Shirou comes to understand his decision and it was him deciding to follow through despite the suffering that he finally got his reward in Avalon.
In UBW, Shirou already finds his identity by the end and if anything, he is even more mature than Archer, whom had to admit that he had lost his way as an 'adult'.
For HF, he never dropped his dream of becoming a superhero. A lot of HF/Sakurafags seem to think that he drops the world for her, but all he does is reprioritize himself - he'll still do everything in his power to save the people around him. The only difference is that he puts Sakura first and won't go out looking for trouble.
>>
>>100641596

I know they say Kiritsugu was 'poisoned/corrupted' by the Grail, but doesn't Shirou feel he died of a broken heart more than anything?
>>
>>100641662
It's all about that Independent Action.
>>
So generally, if you get a Beserker, you'rep retty screwed right? Your servant will rape stomp some choice Servants here and there, but a mad dog will never bring you victory?

I think Assassin is a better roll than Beserker, if used properly.
>>
>>100641662
Because they're the only ranged class so they can just zone everyone else, obviously
>>
>>100641662

Because we've only seen two and they were both bad asses.
>>
>>100641784

Only class where an Assassin might want to kill before the Master.
>>
>>100639130
He didn't go through the traps because Archibald (spelling?) would expect that. Kiritsugu uses means that mages aren't supposed to expect, that is, using weapons that aren't magic.
>>
UBW is pretty much what Nietzsche was trying to sell in terms of ideology.

"God is dead", "there is no bigger picture", no "greater good" no end goal that once you reach you can stop. Every action has to be worth it on its own. "If nothing that we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."

Fate is the bigger picture, the Unreachable Utopia route where upon reaching it he can stop and rest.
>>
>>100641854

In F/E, Robin Hood was pretty cool, hampered by a 'muh honor' faggot master more than anything.
>>
Avenger best class, other classes pls go.
>>
>>100641811
Yup. Berserker may be a bit stronger than normal, but it wrecks the master, and if the master is strong enough to take that they'd probably be better off not having their servant as Berserker anyway. Plus, for strategy and tactics you're on your own.

By contrast, look at what a well used Assassin can do in HF.
>>
>>100641961
Didn't Avenger just kinda suck and die?
>>
>>100641896
UBW was cool because it painted Shirou as a total Übermensch. He was someone who had complete faith in himself, lived according to his own ideals, not weighed down or swayed by the morality of others, and surpassed normal human morality and ethics. This was actually quite a startling contrast to HF and even Fate Shirou.
>>
One thing about F/Z that bothered me was how often Kiritsugu used his time accel.

Aren't reality marbles supposed to use up a huge amount of mana?
>>
>>100635488
It had C level animation.
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>>100642102
His wife was kind of an unlimited prana sink though, and I'm sure that helped some. Where do you think Saber got her insane pool at the start of F/SN from?
>>
>>100642102
Its not a real reality marble, just a fake one confined to his body. Its like a reality marble, but its more like a bounded field.
>>
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>>100641520
Nah.
>>
>>100642102
I think it was explained that reality marbles that are used from the inside don't consume as much mana but even then I felt it wasn't much of a consequence to using it that much.
>>
>>100642065
Well, yeah... in THIS war!
>>
>>100642031

I'm sure a better master could have took Lancelot to the top in the 3th HGW, it helped that he was a good counter to Gates of Babylon, hopefully Gil wouldn't use Ea on Lancelot out of pride as that's obviously a problem.
>>
>>100642168
Them plot holes man.
>>
>>100641724
I'd say the opposite. He died because he was finally able to get some peace after Shirou promised to become a superhero and not fail
>>
>>100642102
It's not a Reality Marble, just something that imitates them. Also, Reality Marbles cost a fuck tonne less if they used within the caster's body, which is what Kerry does too.
>>
>>100642374
Ea is always a problem. How many of the F/SN or F/Z servants have any sort of counter to that?
>>
>>100642065
What the fuck were the Einzberns thinking?
>>
>>100642072
This is why Shirou is the first moralfag I ever began to like. I'd hated his guts in the anime, but the VN really made me like him.
>>
>>100642310

I thought that it rekt his heart with each use and with greater pain the stronger the...accel?

Avalon regening his heart is the only thing that enabled him to use Time Alter as much as he did wasn't it?
>>
>>100636031

I've been here way to long.... fuck life /a/
>>
>>100642291
>I know I am becoming an adult, but I can still chase my childhood
>Implying you didn't just prove my point

It's not a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with UBW representing adolescents. That is probably the best period of time for a route to represent, as it is the most opportunity for conflict and makes it far interesting than Childhood and Adulthood.

Heaven's Feel being Adulthood doesn't make it the best, either.

All three together is the best.
>>
>>100642403

Do you think he'd deem Lancelot worthy of it at even low power? Even lower than his F/SN level of power?

I'm banking on the utter contempt he had for Lancelot and the 'shame' of having to resort to even pulling EA out against a rabid dog being Lancelot's saving grace.

Though I dunno what Gil' would do otherwise to Lancelot with Arondight pulled out, if he doesn't use Ea he's only got the Chains of Enkidu.
>>
>>100642486
>>I know I am becoming an adult, but I can still chase my childhood
>"because I became an adult."
No.
>>
>>100642403
Saber can counter it with Avalon, provided she has it. Servants with Reality Marbles like 4th Rider and EMIYA can probably take one hit from it, and maybe even keep Gil from using it. 5th Berserker might not die from it, but given what Excalibur did to him I don't even know. A well used Assassin of any time would probably be able to get around it.

Beyond that, it gets pretty dicey. I'd give about even odds for 5th Caster to be able to pull some Age of Gods spell out of her ass to counter it, but that doesn't really matter because she's weak against getting shish-kabobed anyway.
>>
>>100642560
He could still shoot stuff at him, Lancelot can't catch everything.
>>
>>100642560
I doubt Lancelot would require Ea, we never got to see Gil go past 16 blades after all.
>>
>>100642594
This. The light novel explicitly states that if Gilgamesh had used his 3rd barrage at the docks, Lancelot would have been killed instantly.
>>
>>100642594

He was doing pretty great, admittedly we never got to see him try when Gil got mega butt blasted, Tokiomi's such a cock tease.
>>
>>100642486
Once again, I disagree with your assessment. You can look at it that way, but I feel limiting yourself to the
>Child > Teenager > Adult
paradigm causes you to miss out on a lot of details. For example, UBW's Shirou knew the limitations of his self, but still chose to fight for his own dreams and ideals in the world and presumably, make it work. I mean he even had his 'adult' self beat the shit out of him like you said and he learned how the world works. I'd argue that that is a very adult way of thinking, to know the limitations imposed upon you by the world, but still walking your own path. It's what a lot of successful people do in the world and like >>100641896 says, it is definitely not something a child or even teenager could come to as a resolution.

I would make a similar case for Fate as well, taking into account LE.
>>
>>100642596
RM's can't match Ea at all, Shirou only survived because he knew and was already right up in Gil's face.

Also Caster could throw all the prana she has stored up at Ea and it still wouldn't save her.
>>
>>100642657

Funny how Lancelot made Gilgamesh so mad, it's like, earning God's wrath is better than his indifference so in one way, Gil at least though Beserker was more worthy than a mongrel like Lancer.
>>
>>100642404
The Einzberns seem to operate entirely on the basis of "Pick the absolute dumbest idea possible, then hope that your master is the protagonist so that it turns out well."

>Hey guys, I've got a great idea. What if we enter the Grail as our master!
>>
>>100642560
I doubt he'd ever consider using Ea. The narration implies that Lancelot would not be ready for 32 or 64 volleys of GoB.
>>
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>>100642747
>>
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>Be a massively overpowered faggot, almost a god.
>Lose to Saber.
>Lose to a teenage japanase boy.
>Get one shot by wormslut.
Is Gil the biggest jobber in anime history?
>>
>>100642747
>Pick the absolute dumbest idea possible
Not really. Third war was a screw up for all parties. Fourth war they played it pretty smart by using the Kiritsugu deception and let's be honest, they ALMOST won. They made that mistake in the Fifth war because they got betrayed by both servant and master previously.
>>
>>100642404

Didn't Zouken outright admit he doesn't even think Kariya will win the 4th HGW, he just wants to see him suffer a LOT in trying to do so.

Which was so fucking evil even Kirei was like "...Whoa, old man that's pretty fucked up".
>>
>>100642797
Nah. He did manage to beat a Goddess/Devil that would put even Arc to shame in F/CCC.
>>
>>100642718
Rider survived after Gil used Ea inside his RM. Maybe it was only at half-power, but team Rider still took a hit from Ea and wasn't instantly eliminated.

For Caster though, the idea isn't that she would match it in power, but that she might be able to do something akin to an instantaneous teleport away, or a binding to prevent Gil from activating it, etc. etc.
>>
How are the novels?
>>
>>100642797
To be fair, Sakura ambushed him and she was the Holy Grail. That's understandable.
>>
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>>100642797
you forgot
>lost to little girl
>>
>>100642797

Lancer is, his Gay Bulge itself was jobbed minutes after being revealed.
>>
>>100642486
>Implying you didn't just prove my point

What point? It's DISPROVING your point with the whole
>I know that real life sucks because I became an adult
>>
>>100642886
I thought Bazette killed him? The thing Ilya killed after was barely Gil (though really neither was the first I guess)
>>
>>100642865
Gil aimed to destroy the RM, not Rider.

>Caster
Fanwank with no basis in anything, don't even bring that up.
>>
>>100642865
You mean Gil just used Ea to shatter his armies and left him alive so he could gloat.

Otherwise we have to include Archer/Shirou because of Rho Aias.
>>
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>>100642899
>Lance that warps time to cause instant death
>Never actually kills anybody
>>
>>100642865
Gil has anti-magic shields from an age before hers.
>>
>>100642185
So you're saying Saber was drawing her mana from Irisviel? I thought only Kayneth was gaming the system by having his wife provide the mana. And Saber was actually weaker than when Rin was master.
>>
>>100642797
Also his only strengths is been a faggot who sends weapons flying at people well that and the sword of rupture
>>
>>100642813
Fourth war I'll give you. They did the best they could.

Third war I still think was dumb as a bag of rocks. They came up with the foundations of the War, they had to have a vague idea of what would happen if Avenger entered the grail, being what he was. They were banking everything on him being undefeatable, and given that the first two wars hadn't ended, they should really have planned to not fuck up the entire ritual if they weren't completely right.
>>
>>100642984
Bazett got raped.

Not in the way should would have preferred, either.
>>
>>100643013
>they had to have a vague idea of what would happen
The point of the third war is that none of the families knew who the fuck Avenger really was or that he could even corrupt shit. The whole shtick behind the Grail Wars is that everything is a huge undefined mess of theoreticals.
>>
>>100642984
Well to be fair, he was operating on Kirei's stupid orders to go around fighting all the Servants and retreating most of the time.
>>
Caster's greatest moment wasn't even in Fate/Stay Night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA9tZXR9mWA

>"She's so tiny and strong and hungry!"
>>
>Feel empty all your life
>Find out you enjoy other's people suffering
>Wish you could have normal happiness like others
>Join the church and become an Executor
>Fun is a sin because my definition of fun is other's suffering
>Grail chooses you for the Heaven's Feel
>A demigod that's able to read you like a book leads you on the path of manjew
It can't be helped
>>
>>100642404
They thought that they were summoning the embodiment of all evil, which certainly sounds strong. They got some kid that was tattooed and run out of town to die in the desert.
>>
>>100643006
Nah, he's good in melee if he puts his heart into it like in Fate. Multiple NP's with unique effects that the enemy won't be able to guess is really effective.

Though Shirou can counter it since "Oh, that's an +3 Ice sword and that's a prana stealing sickle!".
>>
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>>100643072
That was only for the first fight; rematches he could go full force for.

But he still never did and ended up jobbing throughout all of F/SN. Even in CCC he gets his shit beat by a guido and a fox.
>>
>>100642984
Lancer should have trashed everyone but Gilgamesh and Berserker. Berserker himself should have easily killed everyone but Gilgamesh. But I guess for story reasons they had the main character kill everyone one at a time. Zero does it right by having the fights focus around everyone's motivations instead of just Shirou's.
>>
>>100642432
It wrecked everything, even using Double Accel without Avalon had the risk of becoming handicapped
>>
>>100642700

The problem with literature is that there is no wrong assessment. Both of us can be correct because there are an infinite amount of ways in which you can address the themes being presented to us in the material.

UBW can represent inner conflict and his battle to find his true identity. The fact that he understands his limitations but still wants to follow his childhood dreams shows that his conflict has not ended. There is no "presumably make it work" Shirou knows full well that it can't. He chooses to go after it because he is not ready to let it go. Reluctance to let go is not the trait of a rational adult. And that is okay. Being irrational and chasing after dreams got us the airplane. This is not a bad thing, and makes Shirou more admirable.

Him "letting go" in HF completes the transformations. When you strip everything down to the bare bones, Shirou is characterized by his ideal of what a superhero is, and it goes through three very prominent stages of development.

The fact we are even having this discussion goes to show how amazing Fate/Stay Night is.
>>
>>100643166
There were plenty of fights occurring behind the scenes, but since it'sthrough Shirou's PoV you don't seem them.
>>
>>100642984
E rank luck.
>>
If Lancer activates Gae Bolg in range of a Master, then gets swatted away after the words by that master's servant...how does the Master die?

The spear lunge is said to only be a formality as the heart has been pierced already, before Lancer gets swatted away, but I presume Lancer still needs to resolve the effect of the heart being pierced being the reason he stabbed the heart?
>>
>>100642943
>>100642949
>>100642986
I think you might be missing what I'm saying - aside from Saber (and to a tiny degree Rho Aias), you can't stand in front of Ea and shrug off the damage. The way to survive Gil attempting to kill you with Ea is to not be there, whether by having the attack go off inside a reality marble that you control, chopping off his arm before he can pull it out, or otherwise being faster to get out of range than Gilgamesh can fire.
>>
>>100643224
>The problem with literature is that there is no wrong assessment.
The problem with your post is that you seem to insist there's only one way to look at it. I'm simply pointing out that you're strict adherence to that particular analysis leaves out a lot of views and analyses.

Also, Shirou never "let's go" of anything in HF. I already made it clear he just switches his priorities around; he's still the broken guy that can't feel happiness for himself in all three routes.
>Sakura, I will become your SUPERHERO
>>
>>100643291
By the moment of the activation, the heart has been pierced.

See Lancer vs. Bazett. She performs her perfect counter that should stop him in his tracks, Gae Bold doesn't give a fuck and kills her anyhow.
>>
>>100643081
Everybody's greatest moment was in Carnival Phantasm. (As will be the greatest moments of the Zero cast once we get a new season)
>>
This was touched upon in another thread but someone tell me why Nasu's sex scenes are bad again? What constitutes a 'good' sex scene?

If I got aroused, then they were good, right?
>>
>>100643307
Reality Marbles don't give any protection against Ea. They get shredded completely by it and if the rm user is being targeted then he'll die.
>>
>>100643224
I forgot to add one more thing:
>There is no "presumably make it work" Shirou knows full well that it can't.

He knows full well that he can make it work, just not to Kiritsugu's standards. It seems like you misunderstood UBW. Shirou's 'ideal' was not to save the world, but rather, to see the people around him smiling. He can make this work quite easily, as HF shows.

Also, your entire thing about
>If you don't let go of your childhood dreams you are not a rational adult
Is retarded. A lot of successful people got to where they are by dogged persistence in a world that was out to get them. You've never read of shaggy dog stories where someone had a dream but no money, capital, stock, or even the basic necessities of life and clawed their way up to becoming a shark or CEO? Come on dude.

Like I said, your viewpoint is too narrow.
>>
>>100643394
Seafood
>>
>>100643074
I still stand by the summoning of Avenger being a complete mess. If they had any idea what was going to happen, they shouldn't have done it. If they didn't have any idea what was going to happen, they shouldn't fuck around with the unknown inner workings of a contraption powerful enough to reach the origin.
>>
>>100643368

What happens in that instance, visually? Does her chest just explode?
>>
>>100643441
Is an Asian standard for sex scenes. It's so old it's cliche.
>>
>>100643441

What metaphors are acceptable for an explicit sex scene involving the vagina?
>>
>>100643308

His ideal is to save everyone. By prioritizing Sakura, everything flies in the face of that ideal. He doesn't want to just be a "superhero" he wants to be a "superhero that can save everyone" that is what we are introduced to, and it is what is hammered into us.

Everyone repeats this to Shirou and tells him that he cannot be a superhero if he picks to prioritize Sakura. He is warned that by choosing to save Sakura, he puts his dream at risk. He cannot save everyone is he saves Sakura. You absolutely cannot prioritize one person over the other when you want to save everyone.

He is a hero, but not the superhero he wanted to be in Fate and UBW. That's the spark, the final change. Going from an implausible dream, to a plausible goal. To disguise this fact as merely "changing prioritize" is but a rationalization of the fact. "Saving Sakura" and "Saving Everyone" are not the same thing.
>>
>>100643454
>If they didn't have any idea what was going to happen, they shouldn't fuck around with the unknown inner workings of a contraption powerful enough to reach the origin.
Sometimes, you have to take risks to advance society. Magi have gotten to where they are by doing crazy shit and even in real life, the will to push the limits of the unknown is what got us where we are today. You can fault the Eizenberns for that I guess, but it's silly in my opinion.
>>
>>100643462
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pFwBq0DDes&t=9m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0CzD8BjYN8
>>
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>>100643531
>His ideal is to save everyone
Stopped reading.

This was proven to be completely untrue in UBW. That was KIRITSUGU'S ideal, not Shirou's.
>>
>>100643549
>Bazett bleeding on the ground
>"I, have... one too, wait"
;_;
>>
>>100643491
He wasn't even describing her vagina. And we get lines like "Her anus is defenseless"
>>
>>100643534
There are risks and there are stupid risks. I'd consider tinkering around with the HGW on the order of "Let's all shoot ourselves in the head and see if we develop an immunity to bullets!"
>>
>>100643566
In UBW his goal is to save everyone before him.
>>
>>100643633
>There are risks and there are stupid risks.
You do realize this is entirely your opinion on what a stupid risk is, right? You do realize magi culture since its inception was founded on pushing past humanity to achieve the meaning of life/the root right?

>"Let's all shoot ourselves in the head and see if we develop an immunity to bullets!"
At least come up with a good analogy, please.
>>
>>100643549

Wow, I'm pretty sure Lancer and Bazett just fucked Time in every orifice there.
>>
>>100643687
>That if I can save the world in front of me, I will fight it

Literally everything about that scene was talking about the small world (and his RM) around him. Like I said, saving the world was some bullshit he inherited from Kiritsugu and Archer calls him out on it. Shirou never wanted that, he just wanted to see people around be happy so that he could be happy himself. It went back to the entire selfishness in selflessness deal. UBW was about Shirou realizing this and deciding to live for himself, independent of anyone else, not Saber, not Sakura, and not Rin.
>>
To the beginning > Oath Sign

Manten > Sora wa takaku kaze ga utau > Memoria
>>
>>100643627

But why is that a bad line? Is a 'good' sex scene one that focuses on the metaphysical or what?

I'm a massive romance fag in sex scenes and despite the lewd, I find Fate's to be rather romantic which is what makes me like them.

I just find the subject strange, is all, I'm yet to hear what a well written sex scene looks like.
>>
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>>100643770
>Shirou never wanted that,
But he does and Archer agrees.
>>
>>100643838
Manten>>>>>>> everything

Special Tier: Disillusion
>>
>>100643838

What about Carnival Phantasm's 'Super Affection'?

I feel happier after watching the OP to that show.
>>
>>100643895
>Disillusion

But which version, anon, it's like saying you're favourite song is 'Emiya', there's a few versions.
>>
>>100643877
See:
>>100643687
>>100643770

You're literally contradicting yourself every post now. I really can't say anything else if you still didn't understand the divide between Kiritsugu and Shirou's wishes, which was the central plot point of UBW.
>>
>>100643770
that's not even close to right. shirou wanted to save people because he saw that kiritsugu was happy when he saved shirou and he wanted to imitate that. the main theme of the route was that even if wanting to save everyone was impossible there was still value in trying.
>>
>>100643838
Memoria had the best visuals, though.
>>
>>100643954
Surprisingly, I like the anime version the best. As for Emiya, 2012 version please.
>>
>>100643689
Yeah, I know it's my opinion that summoning Avenger was beyond the bounds of sanity. I hope you haven't gotten the impression that I take my eroge about King Arthur the little girl seriously enough to think my opinions are fact. That said, I think my opinions are pretty reasonable. Magi know very well that you can't reach the origin if you and all your family are obliterated. Most other depictions of Magi in the Nasuverse show that they proceed with their magical experiments very carefully, if only for record-keeping purposes so they can figure out what they did later. To jump straight into altering the rules of the HGW with no idea as to what is actually being changed seems silly - especially for a family that has experience with gaining something, then losing it.

Sorry you didn't like the analogy. How about this one? "Hey, let's see how this completely unknown substance works as a control rod for our nuclear reactor!"
>>
>>100643913

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvbaM-URygs

>Dat dance
>Everyone looking so happy

>"I like being with you best
So come over, let’s get closer"

<3
>>
>>100643969
I think you're talking to me, but I'm not sure.

How am I contradicting him? Shirou wants to save everyone, but that doesn't mean he sees the whole world as something that needs to be saved.
>>
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>>100640296
Mind of Steel is the greatest betrayal to his ideal he can possibly make, and not to mention people here hate Kiritsugu which is exactly what he becomes there. At least when he gives up his ideals to protect Sakura it's because he literally is trying to save everyone in the most selfish way possible while saying he'll stop all killings on both sides even if it's unreasonable and impractical like a hero.

If someone loves Kotomine then they should be hoping for some "All the Evils in the World" action here, and you know which one I mean.
>>
>>100643913
A+-ranked OP at least.
>>
>>100644145

I think the anime improved several songs of Fate, Sword of Promised Victory is way better in the anime.
>>
>>100644180
dat epic dance :^)

get out
>>
>>100644026
>that's not even close to right.
Except you just reiterated what I said. Shirou doesn't need to save the world, he just wants to save the people around him to be able to feel the happiness that he saw Kirtsugu had in much the same way.

>the main theme of the route was that even if wanting to save everyone was impossible there was still value in trying.
I never contested this. What I did contest was the assertion that Shirou was 'not an adult' in UBW for simply chasing after his dreams. The other anon, or you, back pedaled into claiming that chasing after his dreams is childish because it was 'impossible', and I am simply showing that is not the case. To bring this discussion back on track, I refer you to >>100642291 and >>100641716. Both Fate and UBW Shirous would not be adults without the conclusions they came to in their respective routes.
>>
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>>100644180
>Assassin

Every fucking time.
>>
>>100644254

I never said epic or used that smiley, what's your beef.

Don't hate because I'm basking in the unbridled joy of Super Affection, anon.
>>
>>100644196
It's more accurate to say he wants to save people that need to be saved, and that is not 'everyone'.
>>
Would Hercules be a better archer than Gilgamesh and EMIYA?
>>
>>100644323

> 'It's funny because I know how to operate the Blu Ray player because I used to own it, being that I am Shirou'
>>
>>100642855
Speaking of that I'm playing Fate/Extra. Caster and Saber seemed so nice but I picked Archer for Unlimited Blade Works
I really regret not going a female character.
>>
>>100644200
If anything, HF Shirou is the one that stays most true to his ideal. He actually does manage to save everyone and gets the best ending out of all the Shirous (before LE) simply because it satisfies his need to... well, save everyone.
>>
My favorite is probably Horizon, the UBW vita opening.
>>
>>100643088
>Finally find a guy that can understand you in your final year alive
>Someone just as broken, just as atoning, just as impractical, yet constantly seeking as you are as he tries to pursue a happiness that can only condemn him further.
>Carve your ideals into each other with your fists as you both give it your all fighting for the ideals you've held until now, feel like you've finally met your soul mate here
>Die with a smile as you finally find some small answer in life
>>
>>100644180
I feel like I should read Tsukihime so I can watch this and understand it.
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>>100644412
>everyone minus Saber(ignore that little bsod episode, too), 50 something people who got eaten, Ilya, Shinji etc.
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>>100644402

I beat it with Saber first, easy but still fun. then I thought I might not play F/E three times and Caster is more different to Saber than Archer is...or so I was told.

Yeah, I'm kind of regretting it now, she has strong spells but shit everything else, not really the experience I had in mind, I heard gives the Rock/Paper/Scissors system the finger and does her own thing, but this is an MP burn in the arena.

Against bosses I think I'm OK now, with Aphotic Cave.
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>>100644402
Nothing wrong with a little homolust.
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>>100644499
>Saber
He doesn't remember her existence.
>Shinji
An acceptable sacrifice.
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>>100644493

I recommend Tsukihime anyway, the Tsukihime parts are by far the unfunniest though.

Hisui and Kohaku playing videogames in the OP is fucking adorable though.
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>>100644499
Shinji is fine being dead, Ilya didn't have long to live anyway but in her final moments she accomplished something she never thought possible before, she got to choose her own fate and protect what little family she still had left, and Saber can keep repeating until she finally gets shit right there either way. Even if Saber stops repeating the only thing waiting for her is Avalon, which is basically super heaven which removes her from the Throne and gives her eternal peace.
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>>100644547
>>100644587
All these excuses.

Saving everyone is saving everyone, if you fail then at least live up to it.
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>>100644402
Well, it'll only get gayer from there, but that's still fine. Archer doesn't really put out even if you're a girl in most ways, but some conversations obviously do change there.
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>>100644587

Surely Rider is to blame as well? She was protecting Sakura before Shirou even made that choice, she even kills Shirou if you make him try to kill Sakura in her sleep.
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>>100644650
Ain't like he didn't kill Kirei in Fate route himself

Yet that didn't count somehow? It sucks when you can't save everyone, when you fall short of the ideal, but the ideal isn't possible to begin with, rather the beauty is in the effort itself.

It's surprising how little he cares that Shinjji died in Fate as well, plus he was going to kill him himself during the Rider fight the first time if it came to it.
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>>100644200
I don't really care much about /a/'s opinion on characters, but what I do like is the determination Shirou exhibits in that ending. Along pretty much every path towards the end of Heaven's Feel, Shirou has to throw important things away (his ideals, his love, his body, his mind), and in that ending he skips forward a few decades as not-Archer and throws away the happiness that he would have gained from his borrowed ideal to keep that borrowed ideal.

The ending for that is perfect, too. He's going to win, he's going to go all out and do the same kinds of crazy things as in the rest of HF or in UBW, but you don't see them because his actions don't matter anymore. He's already been through the switching of ideals part.
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>>100644651
I always found him to be more of a big brother than a love interest. Though CCC seems to have changed that with turning the sluttiness up to eleven.
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>>100644756
Shinji's a dick, no one should care. Wasn't it Rin's idea to save him in UBW anyway?
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>>100644756
Also he killed Gilgamesh in UBW route

It's odd how there's times when it just doesn't matter
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>>100644790

Rin basically puts her neck out for the guy who was going to rape her, madness.

I can understand trying to save him if the mud wasn't there but there's no shame in not risking your life either, since your life is also important.

I guess Rin is a better person than me.
>>
>>100644756
That's the boundary to his superhero ideal, of course. It's also touched upon in UBW with Kuzuki.
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>>100644795
And what about Avenger, man? Kirei just keeps making all these good points about how paladins can't kill orc babies just because they show up on Detect Evil, and Shirou just arbitrarily decides he doesn't count.
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>>100644866
He wanted to save Kuzuki in the end, he tried to stop Archer before the final attack. However Archer and Kuzuki took him moving as the signal to finish it.
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>>100644790
>>100644848
Shirou, actually. Or maybe both.

>There's no time to think.
>We have to pull Shinji out of that thing and stop the Holy Grail…!

>"Tohsaka. Can you do something about that mud? It looks like we can walk on it if we freeze it."
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>>100644903
Maybe because it'll destroy all life, or try to, if it's allowed to be born?
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>>100644941
No, you're skipping the choice. He can also stay quiet, accepting that some people don't want to be saved.
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>>100644903

Surely the point of Evil is that you can kill it without guilt? Angra Maynu is basically a concept of evil incarnate isn't he? It's like saying that to kill 'bad feelings' is a sin.
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>>100644903
It's touched upon in Fate route; a hero in the end can only save those he's aligned with, those he has chosen to save. He wanted to be a hero that could save everyone, but such a thing is just an ideal at times.

He was against Avenger, Kotomine, and Gilgamesh; so in the end they had to die so that his friends could live, but sometimes that's the natural order. It's the natural order that he tries to fight despite it being an impossible battle from the start.
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>>100644903
Nah, that was less "It's evil!" and more pro-choice for Sakura-ish.
>>
>F/Z aired 3 years ago

What am I doing with my life.
>>
>>100644966
>>100644994
I suppose you think it's fine to kill bank robbers, too!

>>100645018
(Yeah, that's what I was getting at)
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>>100644651
it's weird that heroic spirits would go from master to master looking for the holy grail when the real treasure was in the friendships they were making
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>>100636031
Geass was 8 years ago? Are you fucking serious? What the actual fuck have I been doing these paste 10 years or so holy fuck.
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>>100644994
Shirou himself admits that Avenger is an innocent just like Sakura there, but someone has to die so that all can live. Avenger did not actively sin, it has no understanding of good or evil before being born, even if it's existence will undoubtedly become evil with time. Even when it feeds on people at night that is not sin, as it has no understanding of such things before birth, rather it is just hungry and reaching out to feed on occasion.

Vampires aren't evil as Ciel lays out in Tsukihime, rather they are just beings that must be taken out so that humans can survive. She freely admits that they are not evil but rather just have their own code, but this too is nature. It's like the Chimera Ants in HxH, they weren't evil, but humanity had to put a stop to them if they wished to retain their way of life and 90% of their population.
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>>100645061

How is that a problem? I'm more upset that I will die and anime that will air after my death might actually be good.

Let THAT settle in for a moment, you will die and be unable to watch awesome anime series, it doesn't feel fair somehow, like the World owes you that but it doesn't.

I feel this way about Final Fantasy, I will probably die before they stop making them.
>>
>>100644991
I always choose that, since it 1) Gives Saber points for Good Ending, 2) Archer pulls of a bitching simultaneous dodge-stab just to show Shirou how its done.
>>
>>100645083
It really sucks that they forget all about them afterwards, too. I just imagine Waver somehow making it to the Throne of Heroes against all odds and being asked by Rider "Why would I have allied with some scrawny wizard like you?"
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>>100645063
>I suppose you think it's fine to kill bank robbers, too!

I can't prove bank robbers are 'evil' but if a book establishes a character or entity is evil, I feel that it's fine to kill as you're chipping away at the concept of Evil rather than taking life.

Like when you kill a minion in Castlevania, the Zombies have no souls, so they can be cut down with impunity.

I thought that's what 'Evil' in media as a device was created for?
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>>100644756
The main thing people misunderstood about Shirou is that they think he wants to save EVERYONE. While this does become an issue in UBW, it's pretty clear Shirou operates similar to TouMAN. Both are ubermensch and live by their own code, both are insane, and both same whom they want to save.

Remember that Archer also did the same thing as Shirou, going around the world saving people. But he never gave a shit the contradiction and was even happy as he was being hanged. I'd consider Shirou more of an adult in UBW for understanding such a contradiction in his dream, but still moving forward. Sort of like those hippies that want to cure world hunger but make barely any impact by doing relief efforts in Somalia.
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>>100645083

Did Caster ever get reunited with Kuzuki?
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>>100645338
>ubermensch

Hold on...that means Raiden becomes an Ubermensch in MGR!

Sweet.
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>>100645146
If Yamakan is right, anime is going to be dead within a decade anyways.
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>>100645338

Didn't Archer get trolled by the Grail? He wanted to save people and the Grail always plopped him in to clean up instead.
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>>100645397
If anyone is an ubermensch, it's Armstrong, who gives fuck all about morality and does what needs to be done to save murrica. Raiden is still constrained by ethics and morality, despite embracing his ripper persona.
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>>100645402

Still, I feel I deserve to see how the world goes on without me, the thought that it WILL go on without me is crazy, I don't think I'm important but...damn.
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>>100645437
Basically, what happened with Archer was that he was like Shirou in life. He didn't care so much about saving the world as just going around making sure he could save people and see them smile. As long as he could see the results of his deeds and the happiness that came about, he himself could be happy. He thought he would be doing the same thing when signing a contract with Araya, but then it trolled the shit out of him and had him act as a janitor.

Basically, he was sent to areas of war and destruction and forced to kill to save humanity. The biggest deal breaker though, was that he could not see the positive impacts he had since he was summoned as a mindless killbot and as soon as his job was done, he was whisked away. He could not see the happiness of others; thus, he could not find his own happiness in that servitude. It's what made him so jaded and it took UBW Shirou reminding him that his original path, wanting to help others, was not wrong, for him to change his mind for that summoning.
>>
>>100645437
Archer made a contract with Alaya, not the grail.
>>
>>100645437
Archer died happily, but before dying he made a contract with Alaya for power to save a couple dozen people in exchange for eternal servitude, so now he spends all eternity being summoned into hell and killing whatever might cause the end of the world before being sent back to storage. The job isn't pleasant, he's just a deathbot without a personality when he's summoned, and it's not even said he's killing something evil each time but just something that "Might be a threat". He can also only act after the disaster has already struck.
>>
>>100645546

Isn't Archer completely justified in wanting to kill himself on the basis that no person should be called a murderer for committing suicide?

Since Shirou is him, he's not actually killing anyone but himself, so even if he did it inside a Police station he could just say "Well it's hardly murder now, is it?"
>>
>>100638181
It hit 100% but then dropped because they need to verify. Verified is only at 70ish, so we're going to have to wait a few more years
>>
>>100645727

It's not going to be worth it is it?

As long as I get to read about Rider turning into a convulsing, frothing wreck in the bedroom, I don't care though.
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>>100645707
To be contrary, I'm pretty sure that if he did manage to kill Shirou, it would result in a paradox that the hypothetical policeman could use to prove that Archer clearly wasn't Shirou (or at least not this timeline's Shirou, or something), and so Archer killed a different person.
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>>100645707

So Archer can't possibly NTR Rin from Shirou, it's not even cheating either.
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>>100645707
Killing Shirou isn't the same as suicide.
UBW Shirou is not the same as EMIYA since he's taking a different path compared to him. UBW Shirou has little chance of turning into EMIYA.
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>>100645727
It hit 100% because somebody went onto the translation site and submitted translations for every remaining line that was the same two or three sentences of gibberish repeated about 700 times or so. The translators have also said that a lot of that 30% is not really releasable quality at all: it's crabstick level translation that's been prettied up by native English speakers who know how to make things flow, but can't fix the problem that it doesn't actually reflect what the Japanese text is saying.
>>
I liked it. One of the best 2011 shows. My mind is a bit blurry for 2011, though.
>>
>>100645898

The Caster arc was fucking atrocious though, with Sakura and all, what was that all about?

The anime gets tons better directly afterwards.
>>
>>100645707
Attempted suicide is still technically a crime, I'm pretty sure. So if it wasn't murder, it must have been suicide, and if it was suicide then it was attempted suicide that just happened to succeed.
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>>100646031
What's the punishment for attempted suicide?
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>>100646055
Probably some number that's never actually given out, just used as a suspended sentence to enforce mandatory therapy.
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>>100646104
What about for successful suicide?
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>>100635488
9/10. F/SN VB is better overall.
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>>100646133
Life
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>>100642168
>Kiritusugu summoning EMIYA
10/10 would watch
>Sorry I can't tell you who I am, I have this weird summoning amnesia
>Wait a second, Dad, what the fuck is going on here
IDEALS discussion and Kiritsugu being disappointed in his sons lifestyle will soon follow
>>
>>100646397
The disappointment would be mutual really. Archer would realize his dad is a sad sack of shit and not the hero he always expected.
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>>100645847
To be honest, it's more likely that Shirou and Archer NTR each other from everyone else.
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>>100646397
EMIYA didn't actually have summoning amnesia in F/SN, he was just lying to Rin, right? Is summoning amnesia even a thing?
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>>100646881
He does have muddled memories, but that's more from the whole "being a counter guardian and actually having memories from summonings" and all his blood soaked hells messing his mind up.
>>
>>100646881
It's not, it's something he made up because his circumstances are rather strange and he'd rather not be dissected by his master as they try to figure out what the hell he is exactly.

That and Rin being his master would be awkward, really how does he explain this to himself.
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I personally like the Fate route's way of development. Together the route and the Last Episode form a journey in which Shirou learns of the true meaning of his ordeal and when he was the happiest. UBW and HF may imply what could have been running through his head that whole time, but Shirou decided to stick with the path he took to the end. The fact that he was so determined even though he was facing such hardships made me realise just how far can a man go following his objectives. And in the end "the tin man found his heart".
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>>100646990
It's not totally made up because Archer mentions to Shirou that though his memory is somewhat blurry, he remembers perfectly the day Kiritsugu saved him.
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>>100647750
>Last Episode
I really hope Ufotable makes a OVA for it.
>>
Kiritsugu caused the fire. It never ceased to be amusing the Grail wouldn't have ended up the world if he was less of a shit.
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>>100644323
I love that in the ending he's just a cardboard figure
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>>100642797
Well, isn't a heroic spirit's power meant to be based on fame and reputation or some such? Gilgamesh's legends were completely forgotten, We only know about them through archaeology.
...not that Nasu knows that
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>>100653961
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>>100643013
I don't think anyone predicted that the Grail would consider Avenger as a human being.
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>>100654144
Still doesn't explain why he was so blatantly overpowered despite being relatively unknown AND running on orphan souls for the past decade.
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>>100654379
The older something is in Nasuworld the better it is, which is why the oldest hero out there is just called the best hero.
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>>100647750
>implying Last Episode wasn't romantic as fuck

Say what you want about the Fate route, that shit was downright beautiful.
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>>100654419
Dude, I never claimed it was not romantic. I loved it with all of my heart. Plus, the Fate route is my favorite.
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>>100641053
Sakura represents the shitty wife that you get stuck with in your 40s and regret, then?
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>>100649334
If I recall, wasn't Last Episode like a couple minutes at best? Not really OVA material.
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>>100654658
No, it's like that if you skip all the time.
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>>100654379

He's the first hero. He was a very powerful man in life, and more to the point, a lot of his power is from Gate of Babylon.

Plus the Orphan Souls thing is kinda irrelevant if he doesn't use a lot of his power. Which he didn't. Archer class ability.
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>>100654707
I must have skipped through it, because all I remember is like one CG of Saber standing there in the meadow and nothing really happening in it.
>>
>>100654658
18 minutes in auto read. Which can easily be extended to 23 or 30 if the Monologue with Merlin and flash backs of fate are fleshed out a little bit.



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