Would he cheer for Shirou or Illyasviel?
Neither. He didn't want Shirou to become a magus and he hates Seiba, and he wouldn't like how Ilya went psycho.
Depend on the route, he would murder HF Shirou without a second thought.
For none. He's dead.
would he be proud of his adoptive son?
Knowing the writing there'd be some sort of showdown.
essentially when he's in the park choosing between Mind of Steel & Sakura he's "killing off" what remained of Kiritsugu's dream
Lives lost vs Lives Won. He's a Utilitarian
I mean he shot Ilya within the grail without hesitation
not to mention his father, "mom," etc. to be fair though he knew that it was the grail and not his actual wife and kid
Yeah, but its all representative how he won't let anything [Read: Even Family] stand in the way of his ideals. even if they're flawed.
at least that's how I took it
>Implying Kirei could even compete against HF Shirou
Nigga's a fucking servant.
and for all that he accomplished nothing. Couldn't even KO his own nemesis.
>he wouldn't like how Ilya went psycho.
Why, she became a murderous bitch just like her dad. Like father, like daughter. Should be proud.
Except he actually felt remorse for the killings
None, because he's a terrible father.
Doesn't make him less of a murderous bitch.
Nah, "muh ideals" too strong.
He showed a lot of remorse after killing what's her face
Sort of.. kid was losing his mind trying to do what archer could
>what's her face
Neither. He'd stop both from even participating in the grail war.
Because he knew its not her dumbshit.
I don't think Kerry knew that Shirou was insane
too busy trying to save at least one life (shirou), so he could feel it was all for something.
I think he'd be pretty proud of Fate and UBW Shiro even if he didn't want him to be a magus
I think all his problems stem from how dense he is and he's being a hero the only way he knows how
Kiritsugu is sadness
Kerry a shit
Saber a shit
Shirou a hero
Shiki and Shirou buddy cop spinoff when
next carnival phantasm
Woah, when the fuck did they meet? Is this Carnival Phantasm?
He would be proud of HF Shirou for actually doing something that he couldn't (save both the world AND his waifu).
But in the end, he would be proud of Fate Shirou as well for giving God the middle finger and breaking into Avalon while retaining his soul to be with his waifu.
He would shoot shirou for turning into a guido
this particular scene is them deciding to date every single possible love interest at the same time
No, it's UBW After. This is when Shirou meets Shiki before becoming Aacha.
>implying Shirou isn't gay
maybe at the end game. But before that, Shirou lets several hundreds die so he could take care of his waifu.
Dumbass, HF is what Kiritsugu always wished he could do. He honestly wished with all his heart to be able to pick his family in that moment at the end with the grail, but he was too much of a pragmatist and he knew it was the right choice otherwise, so he took the shot. After all if he had given in Angya would have been born and killed everyone, and it's not like that was the real Ilya anyway.
Kiritsugu just wanted his son to be happy, he didn't want hiim to follow his path here and make the same mistakes, if Shirou became Archer then he did make the same mistakes, but Kiritsugu accidentally left a small curse behind with his dying words. Not an actual curse mind you, it's just he thought Shirou was safe in those final moments, he believed Shirou would not make the same mistakes, so he uttered "I'm glad" and then silently passed on when Shirou said he would succeed him. Shirou took that to mean that he had to become a hero now at any cost, and thus he ended up making a few of the same mistakes as he devoted himself single-mindedly for an ideal while becoming devoid of joy as he was just a tool.
Heaven's Feel is what Kiritsugu wished he could have done but absolutely could never had made such a choice himself due to his nature, but he would be glad that Shirou found a normal happiness and managed to save Ilya in the end. Even if it was just his mother, Kiritsugu wished he could have chosen her rather than everyone else, but that's not how he works. Ever since he tried to spare Shirley and everyone was killed because of this he was mind-fucked into no longer hesitating in those situations a bit.
He didn't know that Sakura was Shadow until at least day eleven near the very end.
He also gave middle finger to alaya, gaia, the cycle of reincarnation, Ado Edem, ORT, Type Jupiter, Type Saturn, Crimson Moon, Archetype Earth, Type Pluto, Type Venus, Primate Murder, Original Roa, Angra Mainyu, Zelretch, Counter Guardian, Gilgamesh, Arcueid, Dark Sakura, Dark Saber, Lancelot, Saber, 5th Berserker, Roa Elesia, Dark Berserker, 4th Caster, 4th Lancer, 5th Lancer, 5th Caster, 4th Rider, 5th Rider, Nrvnqsr, Clairvoyant Fujino, Kurogiri, Archer, Kouma, 5th Assassin, 4th Assassin, Aoko, Barthomeloi, Kojirou, Ciel, "Ryougi Shiki", Soren Araya, Gun God (Black Barrel), Touko, El-Melloi, Night of Wallachia, Sion Tatari, Melty Blood Satsuki, R.Shiki, Akiha, Fujino, 18th Roa, SHIKI, Arba (potentially), Heaven’s Feel Shirou, Kiri, Nanaya, Reinforced Kuzuki, Sion, UBW Shirou, Waver, Bazett, Avenger, Rin, Kotomine, Zouken, Luvia, Kiritsugu, Irisviel, Maiya, Arba (usually), Leysritt, Tsukihime Satsuki, Lio, Avalon Shirou, Sakura, Ilya, Kariya, Len, Kirie, Caren, Meruka, The Dead, Possessed Corpse, Azaka, Misayo, Dragon Tooth Warrior, Fuji-nee, Fake Shiki, Shinji, Ryuunosuke, Tomoe, Gun God (unequipped), Hisui and Kohaku.
Here's to hoping you copy/pasted that
You're probably right.
On a side note I still think UBW Shirou might not be so bad in his eyes.
He followed Kiritsugu's dream, and while Archer felt it was wrong in a way similar to Kiritsugu. Shirou Idealized it with a beauty that it made that dream seem like a good thing.
Went back and read that part over again
The reason he had to break away from his ideals and save Sakura was more "Sakura has a condition placed upon her where she has to actively and seriously fight in the grail war to live or else she's eaten alive by a worm on the inside, the worm is constantly eating away at her prana along with Rider, she must fight and fight to win to not be in constant pain, however if she fights people might get hurt, maybe Rider will set up Bloodfort and people will be injured in order to give Sakura mana, thus Shirou cannot take that chance and must take her out before innocent people just might be hurt since she is now a competitor, since despite being an innocent and being forced to fight she still might injure someone and that means she must die before that happens"
It's crazy that this is an idea that forces him to nearly abandon his ideals honestly. It had nothing to do with Shadow, it's just that Sakura was forced to fight earnestly in order to survive, in doing so "might" be forced to kill someone to live herself eventually, and thus it's better to take her out now. That's what Rin and Shirou killed Sakura over in Mind of Steel, the possibility that she could hurt someone as a competitor in the Grail War, and the chance that she could become Zouken's puppet. So Rin herself noted the main reason she was going to finish her was to lure out Zouken himself in order to put a stop to him, and to prevent any potential losses in town. It just seems like a very "They really aren't thinking this through" kind of moment.
Kiritsugu would probably see Archer as a very sour note on the one thing he thought he did right in his life at the very end.
By killing them, right?
Of course. It's Kerry we are talking about.
He doesn't needlessly kill come on fellas give him some credit
Oh damn you're right.
Still by breaking Kiritsugu's ideal at this point he ends up with an incredible amount of people dead over one girl.
Kiritsugu's pragmatism MIGHT have something to say about that, though not something hateful.
I was going to go over UBW again, but I guess I should re-read HF too so I can re-read on those details.
>Oh hey bro I see that you're crippled and cant use magic, why dont we sign a soul pact that says you can't hurt me and also you have to forfeit the holy grail war.
>or you know I can kill your shitty fiance.
>alllright, coool I'm glad we're in agreement. TAKE THE SHOT MAYA
Honestly Kayneth got what he deserved
Fast wheels was a pretty influential person and he still had command seals (not certain feel free to fact check) so could've formed another contract. Plus Kerry would've been crippled by the contract
>Being this new
But yeah, Fate Shirou is badass. He found out the perfect way to avoid soul degradation.
I always thought UBW shirou was cooler.
He fought servants using his own strength.
Mind you there were a lot of insane factors going into this but the kid FOUGHT SERVANTS.
UBW Shirou is my favourite, but Fate Shirou did something no other person in the Nasuverse could except for Celestials.
Fracis Drake sailed into Avalon once
She's renowned as the person who can make miracles into reality after all, so doing the impossible is something that can undeniably be realized.
I dont get some of these...
Wasn't shirou mainly background except when he threw away avalon and projected excalibur?
It's like you have no idea what actually happened
It doesn't matter. The most important thing is that mai waifu should get a happy together forever ending with a character I self-insert into.
>saved the world
He didn't save anything, only murdered the whole district including Shirou's parents with his incompetence.
He prevented Gil/Kirei from acquiring the Grail. That basically amounts to saving the world.
I meant during the fights, he was important during character development.
The shipping is strong but
A. Do you REALLY wanna self insert into some dense kid who had to be taught how to have a good time.
B. Saber's kind of plain dont you think? I mean I think its adorable when she drops the knight act in front of Shirou and she gets all cutesy and starts to blush. But her substance is really in the growth she experiences as Shirou's partner
You realize the alternative to Kiritsugu winning was Kotomine winning, right?
Have you... thought that one out at all?
>fought a war that ended with his wife and compadre dying
>ended with status quo + half a city being burned down
He stopped Angya from being born
Anyone else would have just made the wish and killed far more in the end, he chose not to do so.
>ended with status quo instead of Angra Manjew's adventures
>implying that wouldn't be fun to watch
Not the other guy, but I haven't played F/HA. Exactly how evil is Avenger?
They intended to destroy it in front of Kerry. Would have been glorious.
Just like everyone in F/SN endings amirite
Prior to the 4th Grail War, yes.
Post the 4th Grail War, if he was in the same condition physically as prior to it and was capable of such, maybe not.
>I think all his problems stem from how dense he is
Shirou's problems come from Kerry. If Kerry never accidentally implanted MUST SAVE EVERYONE into Shirou's head or even didn't start the fire at all, Shirou would have been fine living with his parents.
Her version of Avalon is not the same as Seibah's, so we don't know what happens there.
It would amount to Gil and Kirei riding around Angra drinking wine and grinning like idiots while discussing pleasure (forgot the moon word they actually used).
I would watch it, yes.
Not too evil, but that's because he took over Shirou and Shirou is a pretty swell guy. Angry Manjew, the unconscious plob, is pretty evil.
>Do you REALLY wanna self insert into some dense kid who had to be taught how to have a good time.
Yes. It's for mai waifu, for the fuck's sake.
That explains the resemblance.
Almost zero percent evil
He was just a scapegoat for others to call evil as he was sacrificed by his village, and while he still hates humans he does love the world. He bears the name of All the Evils in the World because what he represented for people, the wish engraved upon him that he was sacrificed for which tainted the grail, but not for his own nature. He's something of a Wriath who has lost all sense of self long ago, but he chose to create the Ataraxia world to save Bazett on a whim of sorts due to another coincidence that happened a the same time.
The wish to kill all humans is just something given to him, it's his duty, but it holds no bearing towards him in a way as it's not his desire but the desire given to him by others. Still it's hard to say he's entirely nice in his ways, after all who would be after all he's been through.
He's not really actively evil, more along the lines of "no morals, accepts anything". Only thing limiting him is that he's possessing Shirou(sort of) and Shirou won't LET him do evil in some cases.
I want a Carnival Phantasm with the Fate/Zero cast.
Tohsaka & Shirou date night watched over in stealth by Kerry the Wingman and Tokomine the Cockblocker
As a very special kind of wraith he only gains a sense of self when attached to something. Such as Iri, Sakura, or Shirou in various sections. His true self is something long since lost.
And then Gilgamesh/Kirei would've won the Grail War, or Manjew/Sakura.
I meant Tokiomi!
Though the Tokiomi + Kotomine team might do better working together
You "Kerry the disapproving dad".
Along with the Fate Extra and Apocrypha cast because I really want to see the Kotomine brothers interact and Anderson and Shakespeare conflict
Do people view Shirou and Archer as separate characters or do they treat them the same? They're the same to me.
I want a Nakata section.
oh god i wish there were more
Shouldn't the first bubble be "I" instead of "he"?
Man, Fate/Zero sure was a sausage fest.
Jesus christ this art, what's wrong with her head?
Jesus christ, why is his torso so short?
UBW Shirou and hairdown-chillaxed-Archer are the closest. In his "natural state", Archer is True Neutral that is nothing like any of the Shirous.
Only compared to F/SN
Do you have the Family Reunion one with both Emiya and Shirou?
You know... those ones that never fail to make you cry.
Try with "only compared to 80% anime"
Keep shitty fanfics elsewhere.
Archer is an interesting character. He's Shirou who was forced by the world to become a Counter Guardian. His role was to go around killing people at key points in history to stop calamities from happening. So basically he was forced to be a Kiritsugu and become a machine for the greater good, which pains him greatly because he wanted to be a superhero who could save everyone.
Something like this exists?
ooh I want the Kerry/Shirou Dad-Son feels!
Waver is the cutest.
>Yes. It's for mai waifu, for the fuck's sake.
Dunno if you're more disgusting or more idiotic
Nah, not that one. That one with "You've grown tall"
>Having the hots for Saber
Ah, now I found it.
He's making more of a "Pffftahahah you look ridiculous!" face.
Sure he did
Not just that too, but he was always too late due to the requirements for the world to interfere. People were already dying when he's allowed to be used
Saved them. Thanks.
Okay he doesn't against shitheads like Wheels but against his "mom" and wife
You gotta get him smoking the cigarette, its not the order of things but I think it injects humor the situation.
needs color I can hardly tell whats going on
I feel so sorry for him. He was really looking forward to that duel. We'll never get to see those other worlds or ghosts or traps put to use.
Fuck you Kerrytugu.
Was F/Z your first Urobuchi story?
Was I the only one who thought that was against Kiritsugu's way of doing things? If he really thought that the end justified the means, then he would have blown the thing with people inside to ensure that the target had no chance to escape.
I say Kotomo does that face more
Didn't he have the staff evacuate everyone?
You have to understand Kayneth's flaw is his hubris.
He felt entitled to it because of his position as a mage.
Kerry is the perfect guy to take him down, because it goes against everything Kayneth believes about how the world works. Not to mention a 2-bit mage taking out a Master? He'd never dream of it
No, I don't see why that means I can't pity or sympathize with other characters even though I know suffering is inevitable.
>but against his "mom" and wife
Would his "mom" be the mage that raised him or that chick on the island that got herself killed? Which he then decided to blame on his dad
Kerry is a Utilitarian not an Idiot.
If there's a way that he can prevent casualties he will.
I mean he's got the resources to
He set of the fire alarm before he blew up the building and gave everyone time to evacuate
So they lived but lost their home, belongings and possible everything else
You don't seem so sympathetic when it comes to Kiritsugu.
>He felt entitled to it because of his position as a mage.
He was entitled to anything. He got to where he was by hard work and was promised a war with honourable duels to show who was the better man. It's not his fault that the three families are trolls and Kiritsugu is a dick.
He is both.
And he is too dumb to prevent casualties most of the time.
What I am saying is that it almost seems unlikely of him to make everyone evacuate instead of just blowing everything up.
For what Kerry knows, it might have been the alarm that got Waga Aru G the time/idea to prepare the mercury blob that saved his life.
It was a simple hotel the one who lost everything was director of this building
Not that anon, but no wonder because Kiritsugu is not written in sympathetic way. Doesn't help that the most of other F/Z characters are.
What really gets me about Kayneth is that even what happened in the hotel he busts into Kerry's mansion and STILL expects an honorable duel. And then even after that, expecting Kerry to legitimately follow through honestly on the contract.
I'm not sure if I find his naivety there endearing or disappointing.
No, going back to the plane- he had to destroy everyone on the plane because they were ghouls. The people in the tower were innocent and he made his best effort to keep them out of harms way. I think this example speaks clearly about his priorities.
Fate/Zero is a light novel about a man named Kiritsugu who goes out of his way to ruin the lives of others with out any ounce of pity for his victims. How is anyone supposed to feel sympathy for him?
None of the characters in F/Z are particularly sympathetic as they all have huge flaws that make them unlikeable. Only team Rider is spared from this, and that's because Waver was Urobutcher's pet.
What of the poor people forgot their wallets and passports?
>Worst vacation ever. First the hotel I lived in blows up where I forgot my passport and wallet, then my kids goes missing and then a giant fire starts that almost burned down the down and I got serious lung injuries
I have seen this image nearly every day of my life for probably about 5 years now.
It still hasnt gotten old.
There's this, but I haven't found a translation yet.
>ruin the lives of others
don't you mean Kirei Kotomine?
Did you completely gloss over the part where Kerry himself questions whether it was a good idea to issue an evacuation warning prior to bombing the hotel?
In his own words, he was "getting soft".
Are you implying that it's only possible to sympathize with flawless mary-sues?
Oh God... that was funny
They need to make a short OVA about this
Was that in LN? I didn't remember it, if so.
Well, that's a new one.
At least Kotomine knew he was evil. He knew he was doing bad things and he did it for fun. Meanwhile Kiritsugu had managed to brainwash himself into believing he was a hero saving the world, when really all he did was fuck with other people and everything they loved. Did you miss his plan to snipe Waver? He was gonna do it, right in front of those old people who believed Waver was their grandson. That's not heroic, that's just fucking cold.
No, just that most of the F/Z cast were unlikeable. Learn to read.
Woah there bud
He said most
Not all, but most
Idealism only gets you so far. Characters like Kiritsugu and Emiya-Archer don't have the luxury of plot armor. They can't save everybody, so they just do what they can to secure net gains for humanity.
>kotomineXgilgamesh broforce unlikable (
Ryunnoske is probably the only overly edgy character I liked in anime simply because of his relationship with bluebeard
Did you miss the part where Kid Kerry tried to be a superhero, and then everyone died?
Not only as kid. Because he was too dumb to learn his lesson as a kid.
Thats your standard origin for a superhero
You want to save everyone because everyone died
Maybe if you sympathize with "nice guys" who become obsessed with women only do good things because they think it will get them pussy.
It's like you didn't even read my first post nor that one.
I'll give you Kirei, and even that's very opinionated, but Gil? Nah.
Judging from /a/'s reaction, there is at least a 50% split on him.
Lancer seems to be into this
Reminds me of that dude who was honoured to paint this girl's toenails in public as she put it on FB and everyone had a laugh at his expense.
Kirei and Gil made Fate/Zero for me.
Rider was all right, but I don't feel like lionizing him like some people do.
Glen is best Fate/Zero
>that Sakura to Rin switch
Even as a loli, Sakura was a slut
Wheels thought nothing of hard work, he was all about blood lineage and stuff. If anything, Waver was the only non-psychopath in the war, he was just trying to prove himself.
All of his killing is targeted. At the very worst he's a cold hearted killer.
Illya turns into a fucking sadist, which he would not be cool with.
Waver and Rider are the only ones that can be cheered for with no second thoughts
Both. I want a little sister spinoff where Kiritsugu didn't die, and lives together with Illya and Shirou, and the latter two fall in love.
>wanting to watch "but we're not blood-related" garbage.
Oh come on man
Nah, faggot deserved to die.
Which Emiya are we talking about?
Before or after his complete personality change?
Before: He would just win the damn grail himself
After: He would just win the damn grail himself then destroy it once and for all!
Why would he "escape" his stronghold?
There's no difference. Kiritsugu only sought to destroy it once he realized that the only "miracle" it could deliver was destroying everything, which violates his creed of sacrificing the few for the many. Throughout his life he stuck to this and accepted that his own happiness would never be a factor in his decision
He did get raped by worms to help a little girl. So what if we was trying to replace tohsaka in kariya's eyes he was the biggest shitlord ever.
If Kiritsugu knew a legitimate, airtight way of creating world peace, the Grail would have been able to grant his wish. But the only thing Kiritsugu knew was that "sacrifice the few to save the many". The Grail merely took that ideology to its logical extreme.
that's great. are there more of those?
>Kiritsugu: Shirou, about that girl you brought over earlier...
>Shirou: Is something the matter with Saber?
>Kiritsugu: No it's just that, well, I don't want to tell you who you can date, but the thing is... I just think that Heroic Spirits are a bit...
>Shirou: What's the problem with them?
>Kiritsugu: They pretend that there are right and wrong ways of fighting, as if there is honor on the battlefield itself. What idiocy. War is hell itself. Because those fools have brought in unnecessary intentions, human nature has not advanced since the Stone Age!
>Shirou: Uh, Dad, you're acting different. It's scary.
>Kiritsugu: In the end, Shirou, Heroic Spirits are nothing but murderers who can take pride in such things as honor and glory.
>Kiritsugu: Uwaa! Actually, there are many kinds of Heroic Spirits! I- I was wrong Shirou! It's too rash to cast aside Heroic Spirits as a group!