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File: dkingdom_v029_c306_023.jpg (207.21 KB, 728x1130)
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New Kingdom chapters released

Ousen being awesome, as usual
Homo guy (picture related) fighting against Tou
Karin's cute army against Tou's Ouki's army.
>>
>>100534128
Why's Kouyoku the homo again?
>>
>>100534128
>mangafox
>>
I wouldn't wanna fuck Karin either. Sociopathic giantess with abhuman boobs and face like a turnip, no thanks.
>>
karins strategies actually are pretty troublesome.
if she flanks moubu qin's gonna be in deep shit.
>>
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Would you protect that smile?
>>
I wanna know how Kouyoku managed to survive against Tou. Is his sword that fucking overpowered?
>>
>>100534215
>Sociopathic giantess with abhuman boobs

There is a term for that: that's called "hot".
>>
>>100534306
it's just like shin vs rinko.
kouyoku is also just barely holding out. he has bleeding after parrying the first hit
>>
To be honest, Tou vs. Karin isn't that interesting. She was right when she said the other Chu-Qin battlefield was the more interesting one.
>>
>>100534379
hopefully Kouyoku will not defeat Tou like Shin defeated Rinko, though. Tou is my favorite prehistoric gaijin
>>
>>100534470
He won't.
Tou will live for a while.
>>
>mangafox
>>
>>100534379
I'm just impressed he held out. The guy is 3 points lower than Rin Bu Kun, which means his power level gap between him and Tou was bigger than that of Ouki against Fatty.

I'll just chalk it up to the sword, exponentially stronger point rating system, and maybe the plot.
>>
>>100534435
That's because Tou doesn't stand much of a chance against Ka-Rin. They are neck and neck overall, yet Ka-Rin's advantage is she's smarter. That plays well given her army size advantage.

Once again INT > STR
>>
>>100534630
What are Karin's and Tou's stats?
>>
>>100534502
I don't even recall Tou's death being recorded in history. I just remember him conquering Han and that's it. He can die anytime after that.
>>
>>100534604
and the power of youth.
it'd be crue for a young upstart to lose like this. he will most likely not die to tou.
>>
>>100534630
Tou utilizes his subordinates better, though. Feels kike Karin underestimates her own battle, turning her attention to the other fight and everything.
>>
>>100534653
Karin is 94 str 92 lead 96 int
Tou is 96 str 92 lead 94 int

They tie for 8-9th place in grand total.
>>
>>100534696
I bet you're the same guy who said on Thursday Karin didn't utilize the 1st army well. This chapter tells otherwise. She bottled up Kouyoku's rage.
>>
not wanting to go all vidya, but anyone else getting strategy games/total war vibes when reading kingdom?
>>
Finally there's a blatant weakness to Ousen, even if it's pathetically small.

He's got no real super fighters on his side aside from himself.
>>
What is the best army to be a part of?

Ousen: you will likely live
Karin: for big breasts lovers
Duke Hyou: you will not need to worry about saving to retirement
>>
>>100534826
The author himself makes a databook stat page at the end of omakes occasionally, and they have a 95%+ accuracy in match ups. I think it's intentional.
>>
>>100534736
There are very few general with a higher str than Tou, I imagine.

>>100534845
He has Ouhon.
>>
>>100534845
you don't know that.
ordo might just have been strong.

i feel bad for ordo losing his men like that
>>
>>100534879
yeah, it does totally remind me of the total war series.
i wonder if real war at that time looked like that.
>>
Best of both worlds is probably Yotanwa.


-Part of the winner's faction
-Highest overall power level in Qin
-Beauty maxed
-Not a titan like Karin
-Probably still a virgin because no man is worthy of her
-Has no recorded defeats (unless Hara makes it up)
>>
>>100534922
I'm not saying Ordo isn't strong. I'm saying Ousen has no one capable of even surviving against the guy besides himself.

Both Ordo and Ousen are at 93 strength, so Rinko monster level. It also means everyone under Ousen is a lil bitch who Kouyoku can kill 1v1 BUT NOT LIKE THAT MATTERS RIGHT? Real generals use ARROWS.
>>
>>100534826
Kingdom is more like Koei's Samurai/Dynasty Warriors than Total War.

In Total War, the generals were not that strong.
>>
>>100535018
They released Ousen's stats?

(and in the end, Qin's arrows/crossbows were what made them win IRL)
>>
>>100535018
It makes sense that his army is weak to offset his genius, and how he mostly relies on baiting traps. Also a big reason why he constantly wants to capture other talents, both Kyou En and Ordo are very offensive based unlike Ousen who relies on traps.

This makes sense because:
Despite Ousens genius, he is unable to beat Riboku and is stalled until Riboku is assassinated, after Zhao got hit by an earthquake of all things.
>>
>>100535056
Well, in Rome an experienced 40-man general troop could destroy pretty much anything aside from elephants and phalanx formations (from the front,that is).
>>
>>100535093
Not in the scanlated version, but I know the stats for mostly everyone besides Yuu Ren, though based on previous threads someone said:

She is stronger than Tou..holy shit
>>
>>100535093

Well of course in reality arrows and crossbows win wars. But that would be boring. And honestly Bai Qi / Hakuki was essentially the man who paved the way before Wang Jian / Ousen did the rest by wiping 400k Zhao soldiers at once.

I mean, when you have a fucking general go >300-0, you know you're on the winning team.
>>
>>100535140
>Yuu Ren
Who?
>>
>>100535233
The bitch who killed Kyou Kai's sister by setting up the entire rigged free for all and taking advantage of it
>>
>>100535098
Wasn't Ousen undefeated? Or did he lose a war?
>>
>>100535225
>But that would be boring
Ousen's and Kanki's battles are the most exciting ones, though.
>>
File: OUSEN OUSEN OUSEN.png (1.24 MB, 1680x1200)
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BASED OUSEN
COMMANDER OF THE YEAR
ALL YEARS
>>
>>100535056

When generals still had 2 hitpoints in Medieval 2 with Stainless Steel mod they were absolute monsters. They could literally sit in the middle of 5 spearmen sergeant units and murder 3 units and cause the rest to route.

I was absolutely scared shitless when the Ai turned up with 2 stacks lead by 7+ star dread generals with hp items.

>10 star general with 5 hit points from ancillaries

might as well have fucking Ouki in your army
>>
>>100535269
He did not lose, but under his command, he was unable to invade Zhao until Qin diplomacy managed to convince the Zhao king Riboku was planning to usurp control, and execute him. Riboku managed to hold out against Ousen, Yotanwa, and Kyou Kai even after a fucking earth quake to his state until his court took a couple of wagons full of gold and screwed him. Had to war went on, no one would know what would have happened.
>>
>>100535318
>all of your elites die by getting shot in the back while climbing a wall.
that's just sad
>>
>>100535284
Only because there are other people to serve as contrast.

Imagine everyone being a dumber version of Ousen and Kanki, no one to contrast their styles with.

You basically have LOGH in 2014. Fuck no, if I wanted real strategic clever battles I'd read Ravages of Time.
>>
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I like this guy's style.
>>
>>100535403
Shame he lacks the skill to back it up. And Hara doesn't even give him a tiny alpha like Shin.
>>
>>100534736
>All this near 100 stat
I hate it, just like MAL scoring.
>>
>>100535380
>if I wanted real strategic clever battles I'd read Ravages of Time.
anon pls. if i wanted confusing crap that nobody understands i would read kyokaisen
>>
>>100535320
I never had problems against generals in Total War.
Only against Spanish Jinetes.
>>
>>100535354
Well he can't help it man, the last chapter had his men ended on a cliffhanger.
>>
>>100535320
>getting hit by any cavalry in Med 2
>getting hit by a general unit
>veteran unit of spearmen that saw the conquest of a dozen different lands now crushed
Especially high honour princelings were the worst, I had to slaughter them to a man
Also the AI almost always goes in a broad line
And yes, the traits system of TW makes for some interesting characters I could definitely see in something like Kingdom
>>
>>100535443
Uh, they are really fucking elite and among the top 10 in the series, including the dead Gakuki the war god.
>>
>>100535450
>anon pls. if i wanted confusing crap that nobody understands i would read kyokaisen
This
>>
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That panel with Rokuomi clenching his teeth is just so amazing in ways that I cannot describe
It is pure anger
>>
>>100535450
>implying everyone has troubles following it
>implying a genuine strategic manga should be entry level
>>
>>100535450
It's not THAT confusing, it's just endless backstabs
Like real life
>>
actually how popular is this manga in nipponland?

i can imagine them shunning it because FUCKURU CHINAAAAAA
>>
>>100535593

It can't be helped. /a/ still praises LOGH for being so much better and all encompassing compared to the rest of anime/manga.

There's no way the majority would be ready for Ravages, which is basically LOGh 5.0
>>
>>100535599
Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a big history nerd thing in them eastern lands
It's actually really popular and sells well, it really is the One Piece of seinen
>>
>>100535599
Pretty popular. Sells pretty good like 300k per volume or so.
>>
>>100535599
Nope, it's considered the One Piece of seinen manga.

The volume sales were ranked just below Toriko last I checked.

Volume 26 was re-drawn by over 1000 people, including famous mangaka like Kishimoto, Inoue, Araki, etc.

People love Kingdom, even if nowhere near as much as the big sellers like OP, SNK, KnB, etc.
>>
>>100535639
Which shows the level of anime/manga unfortunately
Still as a space battle soap opera it's fun to watch but the amount of idiotic admirals in there is so rage-inducing
>>
>>100535645
This is not Rot3K.
>>
>>100535690
>KnB
?
>>
>>100535690
>Volume 26 was re-drawn by over 1000 people
what do you mean re-drawn?
the volume cover?
>>
>>100535645
Kingdom isn't RoTK though.
>>
>>100535720
basugay
>>
>>100535721
No, he means the Kingdom Social project. Look it up slowpoke boy.
>>
>>100535720
Don't you mean NNB?
>>
>>100535645
>>100535659
>>100535690

That's pretty god to hear.

Also am I a bad person for being happy that the anime is average-tier so it doesn't become too mainstream?

>I actually know people who dismiss Kingdom because LOLCHINKYCHINGCHONGCHINA at first glance
>>
>>100535720
KUROKO'S HOMOBALL.

It's selling real damn well.

>>100535721
Google Social Kingdom Project. It's a free web comic of Kingdom volume 26 re-drawn by 1000 different people, each drawing one or two panels each. Kind of like a big fan project, except it's endorsed by the mangaka and the publisher. Absolutely free of course.
>>
>>100535731
>>100535713
Fug, confused it with ravages
Still it's ancient China, might be a fresh break from Sengoku bastardizations
>>
>>100535776
http://otakumode.com/news/510cf2339c2a57336a008c54/The-ldquo-Social-Kingdom-rdquo-Project-Breaks-Guinness-World-Record!

wow
>>
>>100535765
That shit-ass crap sports manga is one of Japan's best selling?
>>
>>100535827
blame the whalerace
>>
>>100535797
I actually got into Chinese history because of Kingdom now, I used to dismiss it
>>
When I first heard about Kuroko no Basket, I was happy.

I thought it was about Railgun's Kuroko. When I found out it wasn't, I was sad.
>>
>>100535857
Chinese history is interesting. And there is more to it than the Qin Unification, 3 Kingdoms and Mao.

China has an underrated history.
>>
we're already past vol26 right?
someone should typeset that special volume. it's free anyway
>>
>>100535857
A lot of history is actually pretty interesting the more you get into it.
>>
>>100535593
Why do people even compare there two? Kingdom is over-the-top action mindless slaughterfest read for fun, silliness and badass characters. And Ravages of Time is carefully created fresco with strong insight and well researched stuff.

Come on, next time you will tell me that you take Terra ForMars seriously or shit.
>>
>>100535320

Feels horrible knowing there would never be a China: Total War because of irl politics.

A bit of a waste for the developers too, with so many centuries of murdering each other with over the top armies in Chinese history imagine the amount of DLCs that could be released.
>>
>>100535797
There's no helping it. Mainland China people are generally far more uncultured and they make up the majority. Blame Chairman Mao if you need to point fingers.

He's the one who basically brain washed the country's youths during his time.

>Your parents are successful
>BEAT HIM AND GIVE HIS "CORRUPT MONEY" TO THE GOVERNMENT
>Your father got a raise for working hard
>BEAT HIM FOR CHEATING
>Your brother got a bonus for working over time (there was no overtime back then)
>BEAT HIM FOR SUCKING DICK

And these youths were given power over their household. What did you think they would teach their kids?
>>
>>100535797
> Also am I a bad person for being happy that the anime is average-tier so it doesn't become too mainstream?

What's with this faggotery? Kingdom is mainstream, in fact the most mainstream you can get in seinen. It cannot get any more mainstream. That gay people of the West ignore the anime does not mean it's not mainstream because it fucking is.
>>
anyone have a link to that redrawn volume?
>>
>>100535993
I can see it now....

>Day One DLC
>Lu Bu
>Red Hare
>>
It seems a lot of Kingdom threads give a lot of weight on the stats given in the databooks but just how serious was the author when he made those? I figured it was just fluff to appeal to people who really like powerlevel stats and not something the story strictly follows to a T.
>>
>>100536018
Mao destroyed Chinese culture, didn't he?
(also, he had a bad effect on Chinese medicine practices, leading to some bad practices being spread even to the west)
>>
>>100536056

as long as militant feminist OTAKUXD whales on college campus stay the fuck away from it I'm happy.
>>
>>100536096
I don't pay them any attention, at times a 3 point difference is treated like night and day and sometimes it makes no difference whatsoever. I just look at the extra stats, like Magical Faru Faru Attack and 100 Beautiful and all that.
>>
>>100536096
Stats like these are pretty much bullshit. In real battle there are so many fucking uncertainties that you can hardly say "C1 has intellect of 98 therefore he will always beat C2 who has intellect of 96". Crap.
>>
>>100536096
95%+ accuracy. You can count the amount of times the data was wrong on one hand so far.
>>
>>100536194
No, that just means you aren't measuring it correctly. Just because you have the numbers doesn't mean you have the correct formula, now does it?

Like the Wei War, at first you might think how can Renpa lose, but it's pretty fucking obvious how when he's one man and he's against 2 people who's power levels is right under him and everyone of his men isn't anywhere close.
>>
>>100536096
I think so too.
In terms of powerlevels, I just hope he keeps it consistent.

Not something like Naruto.
>>
>>100536194
The power levels are just for betting odds. Like a horse race.

Don't tell me you don't understand the entertainment value of that.
>>
>>100536124
Wasn't the real Qin emperor pretty batshit insane as well?

I remembered reading that when he decreed that all books be burnt, the only 'medical miracle' text that barely escaped the fires were the instructions for Chinese bone-setting. I think acupuncture was barely saved this way as well? (could be wrong)

Anyways it was speculated some of the writings were pretty fucking advanced.

>mfw the Chinese delayed finding the cure for cancer by 500 years
>>
>>100536166
>Magical Faru Faru Attack
Uh?
>>
>>100536356
Tou. His Faru Faru whirlwind sword attack.
>>
>>100536084
>angry faces DLC
>>
>>100536350
He definitely did get a bit insane in his later years as he was obsessed with obtaining immortality, but the book-burning and burying scholars alive, while cruel by modern standards, can be justified in the context of trying to build an unprecedented empire and getting it to hold.
>>
>>100536408

After rereading Kingdom from chapter 1, Tou and Ouki's personality and antics were pretty troll-tier.

>Tou subtly pushing Ouki's buttons in casual conversation
>>
>>100536350
Half half most likely. The most realistic outcome is there's truth on both sides, but since EVERYONE knows the story of the Emperor being a giant faggot, let's go with what makes sense from the Emperor's POV.

>You install Legalism
>There are still 99 schools of thought that oppose Legalism
>Mutineers and revolts can break out by rallying under these schools of thoughts as the "right" one for the nation
>Your united country is new, tensions are still high, and people are still having a hard time getting on the same page

You have two choices.

>Work it out as best you can through co-existence

>Wipe out the other 99 schools so everyone has to accept yours

So he sacrificed knowledge for stability of the nation. Ultimately a pro, because wars kill far more than a bit more knowledge on herbs and bone setting.

Now here's where it gets fun.

Say you have one school of thought that had some good shit. Sure it's a big loss, without a doubt.

But what about the rest that were only invented to amass the creator power? These guys can also claim the same.

>Oh look they burned our books
>Your child wouldn't have died if my book wasn't burned, it held the secrets of curing cancer
>Your wheat wouldn't have been targeted by locusts if my book wasn't burned

No one could provide with absolute certainty on the value of their school of thought. That was originally the entire reason no school of thought dominated over the rest.
>>
>>100536412
No, angry faces is an EXPANSION, complete with zoom in MUSOU MODE CAMERA ANGLES.
>>
>>100536350

Mao, in a way, invented Traditional Chinese Medicine

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/10/traditional_chinese_medicine_origins_mao_invented_it_but_didn_t_believe.html

Or for a more aggressive one, see this

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/10/25/chairman-mao-inventor-of-traditional-chinese-medicine/
>>
>>100536526
Yep, even before he was already a dick.
>>
>chinks will never be this badass irl

One thing I noticed is that for some of those chink who actually worked out and lived actively instead of purely gaming and karaoke, their odd looking faces make them look pretty fucking rugged and badass despite their height.

Lazy ones end up looking like chubby short goblin/mutants though.
>>
>>100536549
but still. that's not what unification should stand for.
>>
>>100536767
Won't matter in a couple hundred years. We'll all be mixed by then and hopefully gain all the superior traits of each race.
>>
>>100536350

>cure for cancer in TCM

1) there is no disease called "cancer" except your faggotry. Each "cancer" is a very specific series of genetic mutations and each has different prognoses and treatment modalities.

Thus

2) there is no universal cure for "cancer"

Even if there were

3) it would not be found in TCM, which is not that different from a local witch doctor if you think about it because it has no evidence on the mechanisms of its action, no actual evidence that most of its treatment works (except for acupuncture, which has some limited evidence that it can relieve pain), and it would definitely not cure cancer because they are following a 5000 year old book (the Yellow Emperor's Inner Canon) as the basis of their practice and "cancer" in any form was not documented there.

It would be like asking a Galileo era church scholar to design a spaceship or something.
>>
>>100536797
Genuine complete unification as big as China was almost unprecedented, if at all. Idealism is worthless when you're the pioneer.

Idealism is for the guy who takes over after you. Which is why Liu Bang's dynasty lasted 400 years. The cherry picker always gains the most.
>>
>>100536767
Historically, they were.
It would take a while for Europe to surpass China.

Even in the early 17th century, China was not inferior to Europe, militarily.
>>
>>100536838
Didn't we recently discover a cure for cancer at a American university? With like 25~ test subjects all cured?

I forget what stage they were at though.
>>
>>100536797
Well, without it, there might not have even been a unification to stand for anything. That of course, in its own way, might have been beneficial.
>>
>>100536873
This.
What the Emperor of Qin did was amazing.
Even Charlemagne couldn't do something similar.
>>
>>100536923
>Installing Legalism
>Wiping out opposition to Legalism
>National Road
>Wall of China

I don't think you can argue against it. Man got shit done in his short life.
>>
>>100536961
To be fair, Charlemagne didn't have to, he was born into a more...civilized time. Alright maybe civilized is the wrong word, but you get the idea.
>>
>>100536630

When Ouki and Tou had that conversation on the hill over looking Shin's first major battle where Tou mentioned something along the lines of 'a hard-headed and hot blooded youngster surviving the battlefield and becoming something amazing,' I wonder if Tou was making a reference to Kyou?

If so he's got some pretty big and solid pair of balls.

Or maybe Tou could be talking about himself. If so Ouki's answer was pretty funny as well.
>>
>>100536967
>tfw Canute and Alexander's empires both crumbled the moment they died and nothing was kept intact for future generations
>>
And considering that Chinese wars were huge, unification was not a bad idea.

The Hundred Years Wars would, in terms of casualty, be considered an average war for China, for example.
>>
>>100537017
He wasn't, Kyou was a genius. She was literally as smart as Ouki 95 points, the Yotanwa of her time.

I took it as Tou basically saying that strength alone might flourish if given the chance (Moubu), but Ouki is basically saying 'No, they all die or get smarter, no one stays that dumb and is successful'

It's also a foreshadowing to Shin failing and Ousen cleaning up his mess
>>
>>100537001
Charlemagne's times were less civilized than China's warring states era. It was dog eat dog world. His ancestors and his descendants pretty much destroyed each other and a few generations after him, there were no members of his dynasty.
>>
>>100536967
I think you misunderstood me. I certainly respect his achievements. However, whether "unification" is really a thing to be desired is another matter. If you're judging purely on metrics of stability and saved lives, it probably is, but for progress? Who knows, really, though a lot of historians strongly consider the extreme political fracturization of Europe is what helped laid the foundations for their eventual dominance of the globe. Then again, you look at India which was more of the middle ground between complete fracturing and unification throughout the centuries, and you wonder.
>>
>>100537166
But...wasn't he born way after? How can Europe still be dog eat dog when they have the Church?
>>
>>100537017
>If so he's got some pretty big and solid pair of balls.
Why?
>>
>>100537165

Kewl.

Anyways the city gate shit Tou pulled was pretty funny.
>>
>>100537001
No, I don't get the idea. Charlemagne could never do what Qin Shi Huang did because he never held that much centralized authority.
>>
>>100537056
Alexander's empire, though short-lived, had a profound impact on the entire world through the spread of hellenism.
>>
>>100537056
>nothing was kept intact
Nothing as far as unification was concerned, but it still had a huge effect on Europe's, Africa's, and Asia's continued developments. What Qin's emperor did was highly successful, but it also set a, in my opinion, bad precedence, since mono-culture is by and large not something positive, in my opinion.
>>
>>100537206
>How can Europe still be dog eat dog when they have the Church?

Is this supposed to be some sort of joke? My sarcasm meter's not working so well.
>>
>>100537184
You sure it's not just whoever thought of using gunpowder first as part of a projectile weapon?

I think that had a lot more to do with it. If Europe expanded without guns, I highly doubt they can maintain their power.

Unless you are trying to say that the 'need' to change was heavier in Europe, which is most definitely true. After all, if China 'needed' to evolve, they most likely would have developed gunpowder first given they already had fireworks.

But history could have gone completely opposite if we went Shoukoku no Altair style and a fucking guy just usurps and decides I NEED A SECRET WEAPON TO TIDE OVER MY REIGN and happens to be smart and open minded.
>>
>>100537206
>But...wasn't he born way after? How can Europe still be dog eat dog when they have the Church?

Western Europe was not very advanced at his time. The Church wasn't that powerful.

And the Carolingians had this habit of killing their own siblings to take their lands.
>>
>>100537321
China's not really the monolithic mono-culture it might try to portray itself to outsiders though.
>>
>>100537384
Europe didn't get that powerful because they had a better military. They eventually got a better military because they got rich.

And the Chinese had gunpower weapons.
>>
>>100537384
China actually was the first nation to use gunpowder in projectile-based weapons though. They just never developed it as much as Europe, and they never really bothered to develop much heavy siege artillery as they stuck primarily to anit-personnel artillery.
>>
>>100537419
Well, no, but in its intellectual circles after the purging of all but one school of thought, and the idea that this is the way to do things to be a successful Empire/Emperor.
>>
>>100537238
I'm just saying he still had a lot of achievements, and like you said he never had enough authority to pull off grander shit.

I mean, he had quite a few reforms...for good or bad.

>>100537290
Not denying that, just saying it all broke down after.

>>100537321
I was mostly coming from the perspective of the people that benefited from it, you know, the Han Dynasty? 400 years of peace? Might suck in the long long term, but that's at least 4 life times worth of happiness upgrade to a lot of people.
>>
How did Chinese military equipment compare with the western world around Kingdom's time period?

Say, in terms of heavy infantry or heavy cavalry.

Was always under the impression from western education that all they had were rags and bamboo spears.

Were their armies as well armored/equipped/oraganized as the armies seen as Kingdom? (for the larger states at least)

Pretty weird question, but after reading the manga I suddenly realized how I have literally no knowledge of the other half of the world's ancient history.
>>
>>100537336
>>100537393

It was a jab at religion holding power versus what Han did with religion acting as a cover for a system.

I'm sorry my joke sucked.
>>
>>100537517
Charlemagne had plenty of authority and was a successful ruler. Ever heard of the Carolingian Renaissance?

He had some problems with some areas where he was at most the overlord in name only.
>>
>>100537533
Well, so long as you understand that their heavy infantry and heavy cavalry wasn't the bulk of their forces....

But to the best of my knowledge, the highest quality metallurgy belonged to the vikings, if only their select super whatever crazy name swords, which were made by importing damascus steel from...fuck I forgot which middle east part. And then doing a modified version of how one make a damascus sword.

I don't think China had anything on that. But the west certainly didn't have anything on damascus steel either.
>>
>>100537533
>Was always under the impression from western education that all they had were rags and bamboo spears.

Very, very wrong. The level is pretty much par with the contemporary Mediterranean states, I'd say. Though nowhere near as heavily armored as Kingdom might try to show, the Qin army still had well-disciplined heavy infantry. However, heavy infantry was never the focus during the warring states period, as equipping lightly armed units with powerful crossbows were far more effective.
>>
>>100537644

There weren't even enough of those swords to fit Shin's unit. That's worthless in terms of military might.
>>
>>100537644
>highest quality metallurgy belonged to the vikings
But that's like, more than a millennium later. Warring States was during the 5th Century B.C., The Viking Age started like just before 800 A.D..
>>
>>100537533
The Chinese were better equipped. More or less as well organized. But they had much better generals (more experienced).

(I'm comparing to the Romans of their time, in the era of Scipio Africanus and the war against Carthage)
>>
>>100537644
>the highest quality metallurgy belonged to the vikings

Uhh no. First of all, the famed "Ulfbehrt swords" might not even be made by vikings. Second, they were famed because they imported crucible steel from India at a time when Europe couldn't make such fine steel and had to rely a lot on iron swords.
>>
>>100537769
Hmm point taken. But if you're referring to China, I believe the bronze weapons cut and penetrated easier, but also deformed a lot faster. I have no idea on Rome though.
>>
it was more than a millenium later, but the mongols apparently kicked a lot of ass in the west.

i actually don't know of any other major encounters of east vs west besides the mongols. were there any?
>>
>>100537644
At the time, Scandinavians were living in caves or something. They were not some high-tech nation.

You have to compare the Qin soldiers to Roman ones.
>>
>>100537820
Fuck you're right I got damascus steel mixed up with crucible. It's been too long.

My point wasn't that they made them, but that they had them. I'm pretty sure they didn't always just buy the swords straight up, because the designs too different.

It's like a do-it-yourself kinda thing. Not all of it's to your credit, but it's technically still viking work.
>>
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>>100535721
It's a reaction image goldmine.
>>
>>100537682

Oh also forgot to ask; how did ancient chinese crossbows rate against medieval crossbows made a lot later (I think like 700 years later?)

Also reading some of their military history, and holy fuck some of the shit they pulled off were amazing. Really surprised they don't even mention any of these in school education.
>>
Out of kindness, because it's a bit hard to find on Google.

http://youngjump.jp/web_comic/social_kingdom/

Which we could just download the whole thing.
>>
>>100537911
We talking Middle East included or Far East only? If the latter, very little. Minor Sino-Portuguese conflicts over Southeast Asia in 16th(?) century and Sino-Russian conflicts over the regions around Amur river in 17th century are all that I can think up for pre-19th century stuff.
>>
>>100538036
How can your school education fit it into your curriculum? I never remember having free time during class.

If you teach this shit, you gotta sacrifice something else.
>>
based anon
>>
>>100537955
Well they import the steel as ingots, and yes, some credit is due to viking blacksmiths, but the reason why the sword was considered so good was because of the steel, which the vikings weren't responsible for.
>>
>>100538051
Apparently, someone on facebook even drew a panel. So it wasn't just nips. Or at least, non-english speaking Japanese.

If they did this again, I would fucking draw a panel and submit. And it would be absolute shit just like some of these.
>>
>>100538051
holy fuck it's mostly just terrible
>>
>>100538116
Totally not denying that, which is why I said it was pointless to count them of value due to their scarcity.

Unlike the middle east where it was standard.
>>
>>100538098
It would not be hard to include Chinese history in the curriculum.

And national curriculums are different from each other.
Somehow, Austrians only learn about WWII in regards to Austrian history, for example.
Compare that to how Americans learn a lot about their own history.

And Austria has a more interesting history than pretty much any country not named France, Germany or China.
>>
>>100538189
It's for the lulz.
>>
>>100538098

Social study classes where we literally go over every major country but China for some reason.

I suppose its lack of interest?
>>
>>100538256
i am austrian and the only thing i got out of our history is incest
>>
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>>100538189
Look at these gems.
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>>100538036
Well, like medieval crossbows, ancient chinese crossbows came in a lot of different military grades. Some light and could be loaded with arms alone, some very heavy in poundage and required both legs to reload. I think both the average European and Chinese crossbows had similar draw weight but the Chinese crossbows had longer draw length.

Late medieval european crossbows later used steel bows and some were for siege-use only as they required a crank and really long reload times, but those are not really fair for comparison.
>>
>>100538288
My school covered China. Just not this stuff.
>>
>>100538256
That's a shame, since I think HRE-Austria is by far more interesting.
>>
So /a/ if I want to be a general I just have to get a glaive and murder hundreds of people right?

Will they give me a glaive if I join the army?
>>
>>100538466

a stick and 4 meat bags
>>
Slowpoke here

http://raw.senmanga.com/Kingdom/372/15

Goddamn

>dat lieutenant
>dat strategist
>dat hand me down elite cavalry unit
>>
>>100538288
In my country, the World History curriculum is:

Greece
A quick mention of Egypt
Marxist analysis of the Roman Empire
Marxist analysis of the Middle Ages
A quick mention of the Crusades (Marxist Analysis) and the 100 years wars
Louis XIV, XV and XVI's France, so they can make a...
... Marxist analysis of the French Revolution
Napoleon against the old regime
Marxist analysis of the Industrial Revolution (I think they mention quickly something about England's history here, specially the Magna Carta and the Glorious Revolution)
The rise of Japan (surprisingly, not a marxist analysis)
WWI (a Marxist analysis)
WWII (make a guess on what kind of analysis)
Cold War (a Marxist analysis)

In our national history, we have:
The formation of Portugal
Discovery of Brazil
A Marxist analysis of the economic history of Brazil
A marxist analysis of the Paraguay War *
A Marxist analysis on the abolition of slavery
Proclamation of Republic (marxist analysis)
A marxist analysis of early 20th century presidents
Wanking Getulio Vargas and JK
Wanking Joao Goulart
Military Dictatorship
Fall of Military Dictatorship


* Paraguay War: we are taught that Brazil went to war with Paraguay because of England's imperialistic agenda, that didn't want to compete with the regional, progressive power that was... Paraguay.
Fact 1: Brazil didn't have any diplomacy with England at the time, since the countries had a falling out.
Fact 2: It was Paraguay that invaded Brazil that was unprepared to the war. The first half of the war consisted of Brazil being on a defensive and getting parts of its territory occupied by Paraguay.
>>
Does Heki ever do anything noteworthy?
>>
>>100538704
If Shin is already using a glaive why isn't he using Ouki's?
>>
>>100538902
It's a training glaive
>>
>>100537001
Charlemagne already had the heritage of the Roman Empire which was really, really strong and was the driving force behind the unifying force of Christianity and Byzantium lasting all the way to 1453. The Crusades started as a joint effort to relieve the Byzantines due to the shared heritage of being Christian which was also to an extent synonymous with being Roman.
>>
>>100538316
You actually know what a Habsburg is? Most Austrians I talked to said they don't even know who they were, other than that guy that got killed by some Serbians.
>>
>>100538981
Jesus, that's just sad.
>>
>>100538981
well, yes. but like i said, the only thing i remember about them is their name, that they used to be a rather big power in europe and lots of incest being their downfall (..or something like that).
honestly it didn't sound too interesting. don't remember any memorable people/heroes or events. maybe i should've paid more attention.
>>
>>100539073
Yeah.
If they were like English you would have plenty of miniseries about Frederick III and Maximilian I.
>>
>>100537497
>>100537384
>there will never be a manga about Jan Zizka
>>
>>100539244
>honestly it didn't sound too interesting. don't remember any memorable people/heroes or events.

Maximilian I?
Charles V?
>>
>>100539418
Well given the recent years with stuff like Hetalia, Kancolle, etc, there might be.

It just won't be what you want.
>>
>>100539472
>Hussite rebellion yaoi manga
>because the Catholic church forbids love between two men, we will rebel!
>>
As much as I love the history lessons, it almost seems like every time Hox enters a Kingdom thread, it no longer is about Kingdom, just general history.

Why can't we ever side track onto stuff like, having Hox stream himself playing total war against /a/? There should be variety!
>>
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>>100539520
>>
>>100538051
This shit is fantastic, it's like some absurd gag manga.
>>
I just want my Chinese mod for M&B
I BELIEVE IN YOU GOOKS
>>
>>100539647
There was a Three Kingdoms mod by Chinese modders for the original M&B, but it's probably lost to time.
>>
>>100539647
There's already a three kingdoms mod for MB available in english.
>>
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>>100539628
I know right? It just fits so much after you've read Kingdom. They need to do this shit again.
>>
>>100539756
Someone needs to rip all the images and edit in the dialogue, we already have the translations so all we need is someone dedicated. It's fucking comedy gold in the vein of Gyagu Manga Biyori.
>>
>>100538051
This really makes me realise that no comic industry can compare to the French one in terms of average art quality.
>>
>>100540166
There were 1000 people, most of them were fans or people like the seiyuus, the editors, people who worked at the magazine but don't draw....you know...

Are you really comparing based on that? People on face book took part in it. Like, Americans. You just had to submit it during that window.
>>
>>100539732
>>100539754
Those are fucking shit, I want this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SxyLCmfOnc
>>
So, Moubu will defeat the two Chu generals?
>>
>>100540277
>animated banners

Shit, nigger, if you told me that was a mod for Bonerlord I'd believe you.
>>
>>100540355
I cannot see this happening, though I haven't read the raws and don't wish to be spoiled.
>>
>>100535645
>>100535690
>One Piece of seinen
Shouldn't that be Terraformars since it sells better? Or at least in 2013 it did.
>>
>>100540645

>Sales
>Stupid MC
>Disproportionate bodies
>"ugly art"
>Hilarious faces
>Somehow manages to be badass with the above
>Lots of childish FUCK YEAH moments and 'lessons'

It's more than just one factor.
>>
How come being a general makes you a beast the size of 3 men who can cut down a dozen armored soldiers instantly?

Or maybe it's just guys like that that make it into being generals most of the time.
>>
>>100534974
Is she going to swoop down at the last moment and save kanyou, or something? Just seems like a predictable plot development.
>>
>>100540871
The author doesn't really care about proportions. He'll draw things twice or thrice times the size it was the panel before to show how "big" it is in terms of strength, intimidation factor etc..
>>
>>100537165
>tfw Both 100 pointers Gakuki and Riboku are overpowered as fuck but end up getting screwed over by their own king
>tfw it might happen to Houken as well because he's part of the club
>tfw it's best to be just a bit less than perfect aka Ousen/Yotanwa
>tfw Renpa counts in the club because he's tied for 1st overall and therefore will get fucked over after he wrecks Shin's shit at Chu by Ousen most likely

Those stats are cruel.
>>
>>100540871
THEY'RE HUGE
THAT MEANS THEY HAVE HUGE RESPONSIBILITIES
>>
>>100541031
We don't know Ousen's stats, do we?
IIRC, they were all "?" and ambition was 100.

Houken will be defeated by SHiN, most likely.
>>
>>100540994
Haven't read raws, but that's my bet. She had 80k soldiers during the Zhao Qin war where Ouki died, and surely she only obtained more as the years gone by.

Plus, her stats are godly and even pure scanlation readers know that. If she's not gonna save Qin now, what's the point of being so overpowered?
>>
>>100541204
Yotanwa is the Yamakan of this arc?
>>
>>100541107
Someone spoiled the raw stats long ago, and I still remember them.

93 str 93 ldr 97 int
>>
>>100541204
i doubt it, i doubt yotanwa is all that relevant.
>>
>>100541230
But does Yamakan actually save anime?
>>
>>100541277
I find it hard to believe that the panicking Qin wouldn't ask for help from anyone and everyone possible, which would include those mountain fucks.
>>
>>100541277
Just pointing out a possibility, that's all. For all we know Ousen will save everyone single handed.
>>
>>100541269
Isn't he supposed to be the best general of Qin? Ouki has better stats.
>>
>>100541423
Ouki's stats are 0 0 0 Special Stat: Dead 100
>>
Might be a bit off topic but wow, the chinks has some pretty swag armor for their period

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxdWl0d2fP8
>>
>>100541327
WuG seems to be saving it.
>>
>>100541398
Probably. Was there any moment where he showed weakness so far?
>>
>>100541423
Historically he's the best. In Kingdom he's only inferior in strength, while being superior in intelligence.

But one thing you can't rate in raw numbers, is that Ousen is a faggot who cares for his safety more than anyone. So he can't lose because of his caution + luck.

Ouki while having more raw power, unfortunately ended up getting fucked by Riboku/Houken due to batman planning. That's two maxed people combining their strengths against one guy who sits tied at 5th/6th overall, even if Houken wasn't actually maxed during that campaign until he got knocked silly.

This kinda goes hand in hand when Riboku manages to fend off Ousen until POLITICS happen. Ousen technically never defeated Riboku on his own, unless Kingdom makes Ousen play intrigue as well.
>>
>>100541725
Don't forget his money and the fact that he's on the winning side. That's kind of a big deal.
>>
Historically, wasn't Ousen very loyal?
>>
>>100541834
We've only really heard rumour of disloyalty in the manga so far.
>>
>>100541725
if riboku is so great why didn't he conquer all the lands like ousen did?
checkmate, atheists
>>
>>100541930
Because Zhao sucked as a state.
>>
>>100541576
As mentioned earlier, he doesn't seem to currently have the talents he needs for his "kingdom".

In contrast, Ouki had amazingly talented subjects such as Tou, and Rokuomi could have lasted a long while against Ordo Ordo 93 str same as Rin Bu Kun.

Then again, Yotanwa does have 99 strength bulldozer Rankai. It's like her portable Moubu, only I think that 99 strength comes from just using his hands and not a weapon. And there's Shonen Jump Alpha Bajio.
>>
>>100541834
Historically there wasn't enough evidence that he was loyal or disloyal, but there is enough evidence that he tried to show he is loyal by playing on expectations.
>>
>>100542116
Speaking of Rankai, he was just a shaved Gorilla right?
>>
>>100541930
Did you forget Hakuki completely annihilated the majority of Zhao's army when they pulled Renpa away and Hakuki raped the living shit out of his replacement and killed 400k soldiers?

Zhao never ever recovered from that.

When they invade Zhao, it's after an earthquake hits, so they were royally fucked already. Somehow Riboku manages even in such conditions against three whole armies, and that's not counting Kanki's failure.
>>
>>100542230
I have no idea. I think so? Can't really tell if it's that or if he's Kanmei's long lost relative.
>>
>>100542215
Considering who he was dealing with, it was smart of him to do that.
>>
>>100542431
Naturally, but my point is you can't really tell if that's valid evidence as him being loyal or simply saving his hide and waiting for a better time.

Besides, historically he never got a chance. He was too old.
>>
>>100542116
I wonder if Ousen will ever obtain talents like Kyou En or Ordo. His army would be scary as fuck if he managed to get real quality officers.
>>
>>100542566
He had Ouhon.

And eventually Moubu, which will probably bring with him Mouten. Maybe even SHiN.
>>
>>100542566
maybe he'll get shin.
>>
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>>100538051
I feel bad I could only recognize Kishimoto and Oda...
>>
>>100542663
Isn't SHiN more likely to join Moubu? He likes Moubu's father and is best friends with his son.
>>
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>>100534297
This is the best I can possibly do.
>>
>>100542633
I don't count that because he didn't earn it through battle. I mean actually gaining subjects by capturing them like Pokemon.

Look at Renpa, He captured Kyou En.
>>
>>100542888
>tfw Ousen will never be like Cao Cao and capture a Guan Yu / Zhang Liao level subject because he only buys Great general Balls.
>>
Is shin a Mary sue? Serious Question m friend points out the tragic backstory and how everyone seems to think he's so special, but when you look at it, Shin uffers from being at the right place in the right time, and many of his accomplishments are overstepped by other generals, even on his level. When he and the other two 100-man leaders were competing, Shin got his ass whupped and his entire force destroyed. In addition, Shin is still overshadowed by al the other generals, whose tactics allow shin to do what he does. So I ask,

Is Shin a mary sue?
>>
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>>100542984
>because he only buys Great general Balls.
..g-gotta catch em all
>>
>>100543119
do you even know what mary sue means?
how can he even be a mary sue if he fucking sucks?
>>
>>100543172
Just saying he wanted a kingdom, and he failed. The guy who captured those legendaries, didn't.
>>
>>100543119
He is barely noticeable and the only people who spot his potential are the ones right in front of him who also witness his feats, and even then, he has tasted defeat more than once which pratically denies him as a Mary Sue, hell, the fact that he isn't the center of this whole war does it too.
>>
>>100543423
Nah first you gotta ask yourself this real basic but important question:

>Has there ever been a Mary Sue in history that was as dumb as Shin?
>>
>>100543628
you don't know what mary sue stands for.
>>
>>100539565
>it almost seems like every time Hox enters a Kingdom thread, it no longer is about Kingdom, just general history.
Thats why i love these threads so much. But holy shit, this is like the largest kingdom thread we ever had on /a/.
And I missed it
>>
>>100545425

how long until we get shitposters
>>
>>100545527
When the manga gets even more famous. Or a new and better anime.
I never really saw any shitposters in these threads.
>>
>>100545671
I actually remember a "Kyoukai best girl/Ten a shit" (or the opposite) thread.

When it's obviously Rokuomi
>>
>>100545671
>Mougou vs Renpa.
>In the manga Renpa cuts Mougou's arm off.
>In the anime Mougou's arm is just sort of broken.

It was bad with the horrible cgi and cutting the assasination arc already.
>>
>>100543748
And you don't understand what he was getting at.
>>
>>100546059
Not Kawaii face Denyuu and Denei?
>>
Reminder than Kyoukai is best girl
>>
>>100546511
Agreed, Denyuu is best girl. Really, he's one of those good characters that you just want to see more of, only you know they won't ever be important.
>>
Official best girl ranking:

1- Yotanwa
2- Karin
3- Mou Ten
4- Kyoukai
5- Ten

But even Ten is good.
>>
Let's say you could form a new Kingdom and choose two generals to fight for you. Who would you pick?
>>
>>100547206
Ouki and Kanki.
>>
>>100547206
Kanki and Riboku of course. Perfect combo of stealth and strategy
>>
>>100547206
Yotanwa, because she has those troops.
Karin, because she has those boobs.

It would also save some money, since I could pick both as concubines and not have to build a harem.
>>
>>100547206
Renpa and Kanki
>>
>>100547206
I'd say Kanki and Mougou. The old man would find better generals than I could.
>>
>>100547206
Can't I just give the kingdom to Ousen instead?
>>
>>100547251
>>100547327
>>100547398
Isn't Kanki 2nd tier?
>>
>>100547429
Mougou is the kind of character that would probably be the best in the long run.
>>
>>100547443
His tactics are god tier.
>>
>>100547352
And by having those two as concubines, I would have strong, smart heirs (which is the problem of most new dynasties).
>>
Anyone here plays Crusader Kings II?
Will Paradox ever make a game set in China?
>>
>>100547760
No, that's not how it works. And having two strong heirs is often worse than having one.
>>
>>100547992
>EU3 Divine Wind
>>
>>100548045
>No, that's not how it works.

Most dynasties could break down by not having strong, competent heirs.
See Henry Plantagenet and his 3 dame dame sons.
Or, in Asian history, Toyotomi Hideyoshi.

>And having two strong heirs is often worse than having one.
You would just need to clearly choose a successor and give the other a nice enough life, educating him properly.
>>
>>100548292
I can't believe the issues of genetic heritage, education, and throne succession, would be solved so easily here on 4chan. Think of all the unnecessary bloodshed that could have been avoided.
>>
>>100548581
We have a few centuries of knowledge over ancient monarchs, anon.
>>
>>100547511
I could see having Mougou as a close third, but I imagine you'd need immediate results from your first two generals. If we're starting a brand new kingdom in something like the hundred states, then I'd roll with pure brawn and tactics. We can handle the future after we've gained a foothold.

I'd actually go with Kyoukai as one of my first two. She strikes the delicate balance between having enough personal combat ability and a mind for tactics, and if we really are starting small, now's the perfect time for young talent to gain experience.

I think Riboku fits the same description, as well, except he'd probably want to just settle for peace instead of trying to conquer other states. It'll be hard to convince him to stop half-assing things, but once he starts, he probably won't stop until China is united.

But I'd definitely try to get my hands on a Mougou type soon after. Having someone who can recruit good talent and has experience on both the winning and losing side is valuable.
>>
>>100548292
>See Henry Plantagenet and his 3 dame dame sons.
what the fuck am i reading
>>
>>100548654
You seem to be a few centuries ahead of the rest of us.
>>
>>100548292
At the end of the Three Kingdom period, the ruling Sima family of the Jin Dynasty also thought that one of the faults of the late Han and Cao Wei dynasty was that they had not enough family members in positions of strenght.

So they made it very clear, that always the first-born should be the heir, while placing lots of Sima family members in positions of power to prevent anyone else usurping the throne.
Nothing can go wrong, right?

What happened: Only two decades after unifying the three kingdoms, the heir and later emperor was some autistic retard and suddenly all the Sima members turned against each other to be the power from behind. Their massive war killed off most of the Sima strenght and then barbarian uprisings destroyed the empire.
>>
>>100548817
Henry II of England had 3 failures as sons that destroyed all he had built.
>>
>>100548913
Intelligence is highly inheritable. If you want smart sons, marry a smart woman.

>>100548929
Usually, primogeniture works better than any other option.
>>
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>>100549371
so what is this dame dame thing? is it the same as the faru faru move?
i hope it doesn't mean what i think it means
you weeb
>>
>>100549478
>Intelligence is highly inheritable. If you want smart sons, marry a smart woman.
It has obviously nothing to do with the education that the smart woman would give to them.
>>
>>100549682
There are adoption studies. Intelligence is mostly heritable.
>>
Why is Ouki the best girl?
>>
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>>100550436
>>100550436
>>100550436
>>
>>100550118
Off-topic shit: Are we talking IQ? Are you saying that if one is tested and found to have high IQ one should donate sperm or someshit? And that if I adopt a child without checking its parents IQ I'm likely to end up with a less intelligent child (assuming I'm of higher than average IQ) despite raising it the same way?
Regardless, two intelligent heirs isn't exactly a surefire recipe for a bloodless succession. Then again, if we're the first generation of this kingdom there would be less factions to influence the multiple heirs, less power to gain, and more to lose from minor internal issues (since being small means you're more likely to be swallowed up). But on the other hand, raising a throne heir is simply no the same as raising a regular child, there's so much more that will affect them and shape their worldview. I mean, a worse environment and mistakes costing tens of thousands of lives instead of tens of thousands of debt. Shit, I wouldn't even want a kingdom, and even less have to raise a heir. I'll stick to being a strategist or agricultural minister or similar.
>>
This thread makes me sad, because I would have loved to major in history, but that won't be putting much food on my table and I also enjoy travelling a lot (cheap, of course), and giving myself a few luxuries (I just love buying tech, anime and some other stuff).

I just enjoy history so much, and we hardly learn about it where I live. Most of the history I've learned has been by myself.

Historical manga (even if they're not accurate), like Kingdom, Historie, Ravages of Time and Vinland Saga are stories I simply enjoy a lot.
>>
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>>100550578
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>>100551229
Don't deny your feelings
>>
>>100551760
Crazy that Moubu is actually stronger than Ouki. I want to see him fight Houken.
>>
>>100550996

>Using IQ as a measure of intelligence in anno domini 2014

pls

Otherwise, agree. Intelligence seems like such a loaded term to measure, I feel like the concept we are looking for is suitability to rule.

Unless the child has some genetic defect, a superior education, mentoring, and learning environment are going to be the most important factors.



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