Who's the biggest Gary Stu?
>thinking either of them are gary stus
Wait, don't tell me, you haven't read the source material for either character, have you?
Oh look, It's this thread again
>None are Stus
>Appreciate Unlimited Cooking Works
The one with spikier hair, for we are determining definitions arbitrarily at this point.
Shirou is cute and a nice chef.
Neither of them are Gary Stu by definition honestly. I'll go for Touma simply because his story is longer
Neither of them.
They're both delusional lunatics.
Shirou and Touma have a cook-off. Who wins?
Their resident freeloading Bonglanders have a eating contest. Who wins?
Shirou and Index respectively win.
There is no way Saibah can beat the black void.
>you will never kill best girl
Do you even know what the fucking phrase means?
You're a fucking idiot.
Honestly, this manly nigger's probably the biggest gary stu in anime. Absolutely impossibly perfect at everything he does, zero character defects, the manliest of men, can fuck any (hundreds of) women and they orgasm their brains out while he lies there cold fish, best gun/spy/fighting/escape/crime skills EVER, can basically walk right into crowded areas, accomplish his missions in plain sight, flip off the authorities and just leave, etc., is NEVER challenged or threatened by anyone no matter the odds or how skilled they are...
But damn if it isn't fun watching him even with no question that he'll ever lose.
Yes. It means husbandos I don't like
Character I don't like.
>this manly nigger's probably the biggest gary stu in anime
Not while this guy exists.
Why do you keep making this thread, OP?
I can only conclude that it is to shitpost. Which is against the rules.
Can this faggot please get banned?
Odd, it seemed for a minute you were talking about Akagi.
Akagi is a huge Gary Stu also, but his 'influence' is also extremely small. As in, he doesn't do anything except play mahjong for the most part although he definitely fits the bill.
He isn't even a character, he's a background comic relief cameo thing. And he gets shit on all the time in the two series he appears in.
He only wants to kill himself or someone else while playing silly games.
>he's a background comic relief cameo thing
He's the self insert of the director, that's closer than any other character posted so far.
>he doesn't do anything except play mahjong
He beat up 5 guys on his own and that twice and he wins at every game he plays.
There's only 2 series where he's a RECURRING secondary character who's in every episode and part of the 'plot.
Excel Saga and Tenchi Muyo! GXP
He did say "for the most part", which is 99% of Akagi. Also, those guys he beat up were high school/college kid pussies. He couldn't do that to, say, Yakuza heavies.
>those guys he beat up were high school/college kid pussies
The second time they weren't.
And how do you know that he can't beat up Yakuza?
Akagi always wins.
>Gets turned into a magic wand
>A insane loli uses power tools on his decapitated head
>Dies in a bunch of other ways
I don't 'know' for sure obviously, but on the other hand, Akagi isn't really a fighter or known for his physical prowess. Neither of the fights he was engaged in really amounted to more than him just punching/kicking stunned assholes who didn't really expect him to just leap headfirst at them.
Also, Akagi always wins at gambling because of magic Gary Stu powers and psychological fuckery.
Also the magic sands of hell and whatnot.
As long as this is a bait/pissing contest thread, I just want to say that, even though I like Log Horizon and Shiroe much better, Shiroe is just as much of a Gary Stu as Kirito is, despite LH fans shitting on SAO every chance they get.
Both seem, on their own or with their respective allies to be better at everyone at everything despite technically having access to the same "training/movesets". Both stumble randomly upon the most amazing gamebreaking knowledge/items/people/coincidences in their respective worlds just by being at the right place at the right time. Both are "nobodies" who essentially become among the most famous and powerful players in their game, both have world breaking skills no one else has, or are connected to/control people who do, both know and are somehow bros/have their Ds wanted by every famous and powerful player in their respective 'worlds', in fact, Shiroe has random l33t super diplomacy/tactical/economical/anthropological/political skills that beat every elses despite being a common engineering student with no experience in his Real Life.
Shirou was somehow able to go head-to-head with a mercenary version of himself from an alternate timeline.
Fucking seriously. He's so strong, he somehow manages to beat a version of himself that already beat the grail war twice over. That's pretty Gary-stu to me.
>died 42 times in F/SN
>died in F/HA
That is just shitty, shitty writing
Dude what the fuck? That's not in my dictionary.
I have to agree. Based on the fact that the characters in Maoyu are also pretty static, I think maybe writing characters just isn't Mamare's strong suit.
On the other hand, he makes interesting, detailed worlds, and the overarching plots are pretty entertaining suspense-wise, so there's enough to keep me watching his shit.
If index was a visual novel, touma would die just as much.
>implying any anime characters can top Jesus Yamato and Lacus Clyne as the ultimate Gary Stu and Mary Sue respectively
Stop wasting your time, guys.
Medaka's a much bigger Mary Sue than the two of them combines can hope to be, and so are several characters from Katanagatari...but some would argue that's the whole point.
Although actually I think that STOPPED being the point with Medaka, but she kept being an unfair Mary Sue ANYWAY so it kind of looped around back to confusing.
>There will never be a Nasuverse/Indexverse crossover
>We will never get skits involving Touma and Shirou on their wacky SoL adventures
>We will never see them arguing over who gets to save the other
>We will never see Touma enjoying Shirou's food
>We will never see the two fighting on behalf of Justice together
At least in MaoYuu they tell you at the start "these characters are god-tier, they are the most broken ultimate 99999-level item world people in their universe" and the story is about the challenge of them changing the world permanently WITHOUT using force, as that would be easy but result in death/oppression/etc.
In Log Horizon there's no reason for it and it comes off as terrible, Stu-class, wish-fulfillment writing.
I'm half convinced that Shiroe is some form of self-insert for the author.
>Spends most of his time playing MMOs
>Hard science degree
>Turns out to be quite attractive
>Very sociable and not autistic
>JUST AS KEIKAKU always goes his way
Medaka isn't, she's ridiculously imperfect, even if she is perfect.
>In Log Horizon there's no reason for it and it comes off as terrible, Stu-class, wish-fulfillment writing.
Shiroe played the game for 6 1/2 years, whereas Nyanta did it for 20 years, is that enough of an explanation.
>Turns out to be quite attractive
Well Shiroe created the character in the editor himself, didn't he?
He even mentions that his character is basically an idealized version of himself.
>Very sociable and not autistic
Well, in MMOs anyway, with the people he plays them with, that's not unusual.
>JUST AS KEIKAKU always goes his way
I'll give you that one.
>Medaka's a much bigger Mary Sue
Read the manga
Medaka is far from perfect, that's the entire point of her character.
She's basically the inverted form of 'perfection through imperfection'.
"Did someone mention Gary Stu?"
I dunno, but Touma sure is QT'est one.
Touma is 1cm taller, but neither are a Gary Stu.
Still doomed to lose to the MCs though.
Archer? He didn't beat Archer.
It even says so, "I may have stabbed Archer through the chest, but he could totally kill me if he wanted to."
Archer lets him win. Did you not read the visual novel?
you win this round, tripfag.
FSN is multiverse meaning that it shows you the best outcomes with absolutelty the best luck Sirou can have(THE BEST).
Shirou died milions of times during events of FSN.
Are what happens when his luck maxes out and is able to get that 1%chance of winning.
Wrong. The times Shirou dies are just small what ifs.
Touma died over ten thousand times.
Being over-powered or having plot-armor doesn't mean you're a Gary Stu you dumbshit.
Nope. All bad ends are canon, this is covered in the Taiga Dojo.
Basically, all those times where Shirou decides to forsake the world to save Sakura? He messed up just as often as he succeeds, resulting in Fuyuki being destroyed.
And Gary Stu is just a male version of Mary Sue. And what a Mary Sue is explains pic related.
Neither Touma nor Shirou fit in any physical way.
Every ending in Canon. Its odd, but it works with how Shirou doesn't want to become Archer.
Dojo explains it a bit.
That wouldn't make him not a Gary Stu, seeing as you are observing him from his perfect side and only the observer view matters.
Imagine a work that features a flawless person that claims to have been flawed in the past or in some other universe. Would the viewer get the impression that he is flawed?
No, because he's being perfect throughout all the story.
Touma at least is explicitly not at all attractive. He's constantly described as not having any good looks and the girls in NT 7 called him an ugly ass (though they were pissed at him).
I mean except for Biri, but that's Biri.
>Touma punches away Sakura's worms
>Shirou traces Gungnir
Doesn't account for much when touma has a harem.
Earned through sheer hard work and many trips to the hospital. Along with a nun that has a blackhole for a stomach and eats his finances just as badly.
He's supposed to be pretty average-looking, right?
Besides when he's being moe, of course.
Mikoto and Misaki are the only gitls with good taste in Tokiwadai.
Still pandering to otaku wish fulfillment fantasy.
Cept most of the girls begin to barely show up and in later appearances seem to have gotten over him completely.
Few of the girls people call his "harem" are actually interested in him.
That's not gary stu though.
Touma is above average, but nowhere near flawless/beautiful/manmode.
>later appearances seem to have gotten over him completely.
Proof? Do they get boyfriends too?
Depends on how Haimura feels like drawing him really. WW3 Touma for example is nice.
Gary Stu = some guy's self insert wish fulfillment fantasy
That's one of the signs of a Gary Sue, but the actual definition is someone with few to no flaws.
Not sure why anyone would want to self-insert as Touma anyways. New Testament has been fucked up in regards to making his life shit.
No boyfriends, but that's Kamachi not liking writing romance. Rikou and Hamazura are the only ones in a steady relationship IIRC. Villian and William also seem to have a thing though.
You can tell because they just aren't thinking about them, and when they're in a situation related to him they don't think "Oh, I want to see him", they just deal with it and rarely even mention him (Agnese, Kanzaki, Orsola, Sasha, etc.)
Itsuwa (though she hasn't seen him in 14 volumes), Mikoto, Misaki, and the Sisters are the only ones really pursuing him. And there's Index, but her appearances are hilariously small. Lessar just wants to fuck him to get him to work for the UK and Birdway just wants him as a bro.
This is for you, and for every other idiot in this thread who doesn't understand the core concept behind gary / mary sue / stu characterizations.
>pic is mary sue
Just take everything in the picture, and flip the gender role and viola.
Suspicious. Sounds like the author doesn't want to send his readers into an NTR induced rage.
Eh, we can just use this then.
1. Shirou doesn't really interact with enough people for us to tell. He seems fairly well-liked overall, but he is just a generally nice guy.
2. All of them seem to have fairly compelling reasons (imo).
3. Fits this one to a T, though that insanity is basically his whole character.
4. Part of the whole "Archer memories" thing, so yeah.
5. Not having any kind of sense of self seems like a fairly big flaw to me.
6. Don't know enough about Nasu himself to say.
1. Most people actually dislike him upon meeting, and just kind of learn to stand him as time goes on. Tsuchi and Aogami are his only consistent friends, and they're both dicks as well.
2. Same as Shirou, seems like good reasons.
3. Anime didn't show this well, but Touma is constantly frightened by what's going on, especially in early volumes. He is selfless though.
4. Touma doesn't learn shit.
5. Guy is a delinquent who can be kind of a dick on a personal level and tends to mock people all the time. He only gets nice when something is going on.
6. Again, don't know enough about Kamachi to say. Don't think anyone would want to live Touma's life after New Testament though.
More like he doesn't want to introduce a bunch of new characters for the sake of insignificant side characters. Hell, most of them have had 1-2, or even no scenes for the last 15-20 volumes. Talking about their new boyfriends during those scant moments would be strange.
I don't think Nasu is crazy enough to want to self insert into Shirou
i'm not very caught up on raildex so i can't comment much on it, but i agree with your interpretation/characterization of shirou
like you said, #5 is the critical point; shit, the entirety of UBW is based on the premise that shirou was emotionally/idealistically fucked up enough to become archer > want to come back and kill himself and one of the key points of the end of the route is that shirou (in large part through rin) has changed enough that he won't end up as archer
Touma is a delusional lunatic and even worse than Shirou in that regard.
I seriously don't think Gary Stuing gets much worse than Touma.
>"I have only watched the shitty anime adaptions of Index"
I have qualms with the checklist.
So if bad guys dislike or are jealous with the character then it's okay? The main point should be that the story keeps shilling the MC.
Apparently it's okay for five girls to pine after a guy if a "good" reason is provided. Is it any less of a wish fulfillment?
The last part deals with the author's wish fulfillment but fails to account for the reader's wish fulfillment.
>I'm a faget
Wow, you sure showed me.
I'm an anime-only fag when it comes to Raildex, so bear with me
Does Touma actually get even more suicidal than Emiya "I'd better throw myself in the path of weapons heading for my quasiimmortal servant without knowing why or how I somehow live" Shirou?
git on muh level faget
He travels into a warzone with Lessar. (Toumasexual Kuroko)
Touma, at his worst doesn't get that stupid, but he never learns, he never changes, he's been doing this garbage since volume 1 and there are no signs that he'll improve anytime soon.
Not really. His whole form of insanity is not actually having a sense of morality. He just does what he likes, and it only happens to look like good from other people's perspectives.
New Testament explores it, with people starting to figure it out and calling him insane.
I wouldn't say he's as far with it as Emiya is though. When Othinus begins to torture him in NT 9, he snaps eventually and tries to kill himself. Will has to talk him out of it, and apparently he goes on a long rant on how he's sick of being thrown against omnipotent Gods and shit (from the spoilers anyways).
>He seems fairly well-liked overall, but he is just a generally nice guy.
I get the impression that he's the kind of guy that people take advantage of because he is so nice.
See Shinji and his hangers-on.
Eh, wouldn't really say that. Pre and Post-memory loss Touma are pretty different. Pre wanted to be a hero and be useful to people, Post doesn't really care and just does whatever. And NT 7 showed progress with him attempting to kill Yakumi to save Rensa, though he hoped he wouldn't have to.
What does the Will say? Do they shill him?
>Post doesn't really care and just does whatever
No clue, it's not translated yet, we just know what Nips have told us. Though apparently it's less "talk him out of it" and more "forcibly stop him from jumping off building."
Same as what I think.
It's not presented as better. Hell, it's a weakness, and said to be the reason he can never beat Acqua (besides the overwhelming power difference).
Acqua has a hard code of ideals he's stuck to his whole life, and Touma knows the second he meets him that he can't ever talk Acqua out of kicking his ass like he can against other people. They're compared again in volume 18, where Villian basically says they both help people, but Touma's weaker because he doesn't have a set of ideals.
>The last part deals with the author's wish fulfillment but fails to account for the reader's wish fulfillment.
Because there's no way to actually do that?
Every story is different. There's bound to be readers who find it fulfilling their wishes. Even if it's a tragedy.
Shirou fails horribly in over 40 ends of his story.
It's implied that the ends where he actually makes it are quite unlikely.