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Slowpoke here.

I just finished Rebellion.
My thoughts:

>First half
This is okay, I got a lot of questions

Homura is a witch reveal and onward
This is fucking stupid

Homura catches Madoka to ending
This is SO fucking stupid

So yeah
>>
Clearly the themes of the show went way over your head.

One of the themes of the show was balance.

Madoka became a God. So the universe forced Homura to become a Devil.
>>
>>100485043
The whole Homura tricks God thing is where it lost me.

I could buy the whole Incubators trap Homura's soul gem so they can observe and control Madoka plot, though I didn't like it

But Homura betraying her best friend just to give her a human life due to a misunderstanding made in a field of flowers
...Christ
>>
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You weren't paying enough attention to homu and her feelings op.
>>
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>>
The whole movie was a huge letdown like I thought it would be.
>>
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>>
Hey yo slowpoke check the archives and don't make threads with shit we already discussed.
>>
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and that's why Rebellion is perfectly understandable
>>
>>100486379
>>100486423
Madoka's mistake was letting Homura keep her memories.

She suffers from PTSD, and Madoka encouraged her to remember all that pain? Not a good idea.
>>
We told you Rebellion was shit.
>>
I just want to know ... do Akuma Homura and Ultimate Madoka fight in the movie ? Because some /a/non sended this picture and I'm intrigued.

And if not, how do Homura un-God Madoka ?
>>
>>100485630

Seriously? It makes perfect sense. Homura was already crazy in the show.
>>
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>>100486549
>/a/ is a hivemind

Rebellion was great go fuck yourself.
>>
>>100486549
>We

You mean all 5 of you?
>>
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>>100486559
AI YO
>>
>>100486559
No, there's a couple of fights against Homura and other Magical girls though

She steals a piece of Madoka's godhood with the power of love.
Seriously.
>>
>>100486594
>Homura was already crazy in the show.
Desperate, yes. But not crazy.
>>
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>>100486646
What is happening in that picture ? And I don't understand the whole AI YO joke.
>>
>>100486712
Watch the movie or even better wait for BD.
>>
>>100486682
No, she was crazy.

See >>100486498
She saw her best friend, and several others, die over and over again. She's a goddamn mess.
>>
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>>100486675
>>100486712
She pulled human part of Madoka out of Madokami.
>>
>>100486792
>No, she was crazy.
She was not. Stop applying plot of Rebellion onto the original.
>>
>>100486766
It's so hard to wait ;_; and I don't want to watch it on cam. Dayum !
>>100486809
Thank you. Damn power of love. But she's not definitely a bitch then. I don't understand why the others are turning against her though.
>>
>>100486836
Homura had an emotional breakdown in front of Madoka more than once. She had PTSD.

I'm not backing down on that.
>>
>>100486886
She broke God and violated the universe just to give Madoka a happy life.

She also brought back Sayaka, who was dead and served as an attendant to Madoka, like an angel.
>>
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>>100486991
Well, she took the bad role. Repoping Sayaka can't be that bad, who cares about that violon bitch. It's not like Madoka was a God or something, she's a little girl who used nearly infinite power to rewrite the universe how she thought it was right.
Not to mention the Incubators deserved a punishment.
>>
>>100486836

I'd say after the fifth or so reset, homura was pretty crazy.
>>
Suddenly I feel empty again. How many years will it be till we get the next part?
>>
>>100487189
Pretty sure mercy killing Madoka in timeline 3 is what snapped her spirit like a twig
>>
>>100487095
>Not to mention the incubators deserved a punishment.

Seriously this, a lot of people seem to be forgetting the title of this movie refers to rebellion against the incubator's system just as much as a rebellion against the necessity of Madoka's initial sacrifice. cubes finally got what was coming to him, instead of constantly being the predator, he was made the prey.
>>
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>>100486991
Sayaka was really mad at devil Homura for doing that until she wiped off her memories. No way it's a good end for Sayaka.
>>100486836
Don't pretend that you liked and understood original series, if you don't like Rebellion.
>>
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>>100487243
They're all little girls anyway. They're all kind of fucked up to begin with. Seriously, a little girl becoming God ? What did she think ?Kyouko was fucked up too after the thing with her father, but spending time with Sayaka made her sane. Mami was subjected to high stress (LUL LET'S KILL EVERYBODY) and Sayaka ... I don't need to mention it I think.

>>100487273
Fuck yeah, that's exactly what I wanted after ep 12.
>>
>>100486423
>>100486379
>>100486274
>>100486228
>>100486184

Will she EVER be satisfied? I swear even if she is successful with her new universe plan, and Madoka falls in love with her and says she want her vagina, Homura would still have some sort of problem.
>>
>>100487273
I did like how this whole situation was caused by Homura telling QB about witches.

>Fascinating, we should try to make those. Time to set up an experiment to catch God
>>
>>100487410

>"The Madoka I know isn't this lewd. Reset!"
>>
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>>100487410
She needs to GRIT THOSE TEETHS HOMUUUUU
>>
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Dont worry, the real hero will save everyone in the next movie.
>>
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>>100487095
>"Oh shit, we fucked up"
>Attempt to run away
Most satisfying part of the movie
>>
>>100486184
>>100486228
>>100486274
>>100486379
>>100486423

my sides have surpassed entropy
>>
>>100487494
LITTLE SHIT
DIE IN A FIRE
>>
On another note, this movie finally made me accept the Kyouko/Sayaka pairing.

They're into each other. I believe that now.
>>
>>100487439
New Homura's real world looks very similar to QB's experiment. She might had some sort of plan long ago.
>>
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>>100487766
BELIEVE IT
>>
>tfw I'm too autistic to watch camrips

Fuck, I just want to see it.
>>
>>100487881
Koko ni iru yo
Koko no iru yo !
Kaeru basho wa koko da yooo ?
>>
>>100486886
No, she's definitely a bitch. Just that some people refuse to accept that fact. Just as it's said that Sayaka was a bitch, and people didn't want to accept THAT.

Both girls obviously have wonderful selfless qualities, but both are obviously, almost unmistakeably human. In Rebellion, you merely get to witness the full cycle of a person that was never once granted her wish until the point where she turned into darkness itself in order to get what she truly desired.

>>100486891
>Homura had an emotional breakdown in front of Madoka more than once.
>Once
More like several times. Breakdowns don't always equate to broken sob sessions. She nearly went postal on Madoka when Sayaka & Kyouko first fought. She most-definitely went postal on Sayaka right before Kyouko saved her in that hotel hallway. She lost it and blubbered on Madoka three different times

- After emptying a clip in Kyuubey
- After Sayaka's funeral, before she sets out to fight Walpurgis
- The space between relativity where the universe resets to accept an new constant force.

You don't have to stand by it—there are so many instances that you could build a lay-zee-boy out of them and lounge on them.
>>
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>>100487766
>>100487881
>>100487989
They're extra homu.
>>
>>100487863
QB's experiment was isolation field, labyrinth was always Homura's.
And no, she believed she had saved Madoka until flower field scene.
>>
>>100487991
Yeah, but she didn't harm anyone, did she ? She allowed Madoka to go back to human form, which is objectively better than having to be some kind of fucked up universe law.
Madoka didn't have any right to be a God too. Her powers came from Homura multiple time travels.
Homura didn't kill or harm anyone in the process, she even repoped Sayaka.
Everybody wins, except the Incubators who were essentially cheating businessmen. Homura was right, even if she's in a black dress now.
>>
>>100485630
>betray
She didn't betray shit. Madoka was a law and a concept bereft of her humanity and vulnerable to being controlled by the Incubators.

Homura gave Madoka back her humanity while gaining the power to subdue the Incubators.

Everyone gets a better life and Madoka is protected. Now worship Homura.
>>
>>100487410
That's the point. The final rule of magic girl is that it always has to have some unbalanced ending. This movie was the truth in that matter: life is not nearly so neatly swept underneath a rug. Sayaka and Homura both admit there will be problems in the horizon. But in the meantime, Homura is in her heaven, and all is right with the world.
>>
>>100487633
>>100487494
>Hating a hero

The road to hell is paved with the best intentions.
>>
>>100488246
And by unbalanced, I mean neat, clean, happy ending, OTP together, no one (else) dead, bad guys done away with, roll credits.

That doesn't fly in Madoka & co's story.
>>
>>100488297
Why not explaining the whole entropy stuff to scientists and broadcast it in the whole world to get volunteers ?
Or better, asking poor people who live in terrible conditions to do the deal, instead of little girls who have everything to succeed in life ?
Not to mention, making the universe last 1 billion and 10 millions years instead of 1 billion years doesn't change anything.
>>
>>100488391
>bad guys done away with
Homura is the bad guy.

She disrupted the natural order. She did it out of love for Madoka, but she still should not have done it, and she will be punished for it.
>>
>>100488498
>Implying a teenager girl becoming God is "natural order"
Please refer to >>100488146
>>
>>100488083
>she believed she had saved Madoka until flower field scene
She didn't, she just gave up about it and wanted to meet her one more time, but she decided to continue when she and Madoka broke isolation field.
Well, isolation field gave Homura's witch labyrinth possibility to exist. That gave idea for Homura to capture Madokami by herself. Devil Homura's world looks like the same labyrinth all over universe.
>>100488192
>Everyone gets a better life
Magical girls lost their salvation in Madokami's valhalla.
>>
>>100486423
Reminder that the series end is Madoka breaking laws to do as she selfishly desires.
Rebellion end is Homura doing the same.
Neither is more right or wrong than the other. They're simply a yin-yang.
>>
>>100488472
>Why not explaining the whole entropy stuff to scientists and broadcast it in the whole world to get volunteers ?
cause they were nowhere near as smart as the kyubeys

>Or better, asking poor people who live in terrible conditions to do the deal, instead of little girls who have everything to succeed in life ?
he got more energy out of little girls because their emotions were all over the place since they were in puberty, he explains it to madoka when she's crying in her bed
>>
>>100488692
>implying poor little girls don't exist
>implying QB couldn't have brought scientifical proofs of the entropy problem.
>implying the entropy is really a problem
I bet everyone would die before the entropy runs out.
>>
>>100488146
No, she hurt a lot of people. Sayaka & Nagisa's second lease was a coincidence of placement. Had they NOT been there, they wouldn't have been revived at all. They were heralds caught in the direct aftermath of ground zero.

And Homura and Sayaka both let the viewer very aware that what Homura's done isn't exactly "right", nor is it wrong.

Yes, the world around those five SHOULD be happier...but theoretically the entire universe is now under partial (or total influence of a Witch's Power.

The absolute god force that Madoka established with rewriting the universe is fractured. By what degree is unknown, but now Homura is substituting for the force stolen. Meaning it's now questionable if Puella Magi aren't disappearing into Magic Valhalla. They could also now fall into "hell", if not simply be ignored...and become Witches themselves (angel, demon, or lingering ghost).

Despite Madoka's words on a hill, we've been shown through series and movies that a Madoka that feels responsible for something will carry out what's necessary to satisfy that need. The instant Homura turns her head away, Madoka starts reaching out unconsciously to the Law of Cycles. We're given front-face evidence from both girls that this new golden cage Homura has constructed won't last, and that eventually the girls' ideals will indeed come into direct conflict once more. Only this time, the scale is universal.

Homura harmed a lot of people with her decision. But then, what's an omelet without breaking some eggs, right?
>>
>>100488646
There's nothing that says that considering that there are still demons and that Madoka the human was separated from Madoka the god. You can say just as well that the concept of Madoka's wish is still in existence and continuing the cycle which would explain why Homura still needed the Incubators.
>>
>>100488472
>Why not explaining the whole entropy stuff to scientists and broadcast it in the whole world to get volunteers ?
Because that's involving a middle man that can and will taint the QB's purpose into their own ambition. Why buy from the store when you can get it straight from the cow?
>>
>>100488866
>of a Witch's Power.
Watch the scene with Homucifer again, she's not a witch or a magical girl, she's something entirely different (which she likes to call a devil).
>>
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>>100488048
Just Kyouko.
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Whose side will Kyouko be on when Homura and Madoka fight?
>>
>>100488866
There are risks, but for now, everything is for the best. Incubators are punished for their crimes, the 1x years old little girl becomes a little girl again and God knows what is gonna happen next. I guess Homura will eventually go crazy for the sake of the plot, but for now, everything is good, maybe better than before.

>>100488953
Come on, QB is almost a God, he can control this shit and make the entropy creation morally acceptable instead of using tricks.
>>
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>>100488986
>just Kyouko
HaaH WaaW
>>
>>100489018
Obviously with Madoka, because her lesbian lover Sayaka is on her side.
>>
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>>100489089
But if Dokes wins then Sayaka will be dead again.
>>
>>100489070
>I guess Homura will eventually go crazy for the sake of the plot
She's already broken as fuck. Not crazy because she knows what she did is bad, but that's part of the reason she's broken.

>but for now, everything is good, maybe better than before.
Homura's crumbling psyche doesn't really facilitate things being 'better than before'. Things are pretty clearly fucked.
>>
>>100488866
>harmed a lot of people with her decision
That's pure conjecture, and it contradicts what Homura said about not messing with the Law of Cycles.
Moreover, we all know Homura's dream won't last forever. Why not let the girls see a happy dream before they wake up?
>>
>>100489164
All magical girls go to Madokaland upon death. Sayaka's death would just be a goodbye for now thing. And she'd talk Kyouko into doing the right thing.
>>
>>100489089
Why not un-Godding everyone and cancelling the whole Mahou Shoujo + Incubators stuff ? I'd expect things like that from her.
>>100489175
So Homura is crazy for plot sake, because no one wants it to end like this. That's a plot device, not a bad choice.
>>
>>100489300
>So Homura is crazy for plot sake, because no one wants it to end like this. That's a plot device, not a bad choice.
What are you talking about? Homura's broken because of the actions she made, it's not like it came out of left field or anything.
>>
>>100489300
Incubators still need energy to defeat entropy to keep the universe going. Not fair to make the universe suffer just for magical girls' sake you can make both sides happy.
>>
>>100489371
Artificially making the universe more durable isn't what I'd call right.
>>100489367
So the problem isn't what she did but how her psyche reacted. She still didn't do anything wrong, she just lacks resistance.
>>
>>100488866
>Meaning it's now questionable if Puella Magi aren't disappearing into Magic Valhalla.
This. If valhalla even existed, it was only because Madoka personally wanted to save every magical girl. Homura doesn't give a fuck about that for sure.
>>100488889
Madoka personally brought salvation to every magical girl, Homura just doesn't do it.
Magical girls are probably dying now.
>>100488961
Most dangerous Homura's witch minions (clara dolls) were still there. She is not a witch, but she is something much stronger witch-based.
>>
>>100489300
in case you haven't been watching Homura has been broken since episode 1. She's obsessed and driven to fulfill her wish at any cost. All other interpretations about her motivations are equally valid before /u/ jumps in.
>>
>>100488961
She's surpassed a witch only because she has hold of her despair. In doing so, she obtained access the unlimited energy that resides within a Grief Seed. And THEN used that energy to fracture the Law of Cycles.

She's beyond a Witch, yes, but her foundation is still that of a Witch. You're absolutely right, though. She becomes something that surpasses even the worst Witch, which can be identified as a Devil.
>>
>>100489276
There is no Madokaland. The Law of Cycles is just a force that absorbs souls into a single being and can send them off to do its bidding.
>>
>>100489212
Because being Meguka is suffering.
>>
I didn't hate the movie, and the reveal of who the witch is wasn't that badly done. Since if you're watching it without spoilers you genuinely can only wonder at first.
>>
>>100489086
Fuck you.

Rebellion isn't canon.
>>
>>100489560
There was no explanation what is law of cycles, but I think it doesn't suck so much, as Sayaka was very mad that Homura ruined it.
>>
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>>100489633
>>
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>>100489633
Fine.
Then here's something from the series.

Not to mention it turns into a heart soon after this.
>>
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>>100489537
She turned her despair into love. She is strong because love is strongest emotion.
She calls herself devil because devil opposes god.
>>
>>100489633
>Rebellion isn't canon.
ahahahahha
>>
>>100489462
>She still didn't do anything wrong
Keeping Madoka in a cage against her will due to a misunderstanding on Homura's part is pretty wrong if you ask me.
>>
>>100489633
Except it is for the movie time-line, which is 99% the same as the TV time-line.
>>
>>100489633
Even if you're stupid enough to actually think that, they're still pretty gay in the series. They have a duet character song for fucks sake.
>>
>>100489800
Explanation of LoC comes from witches artwork book.
Sayaka gets to play hero of justice without any downsides.
It doesn't really suck, but it is a heaven in more spiritual sense.
>>
>>100489516
>She's obsessed and driven to fulfill her wish at any cost
Well duh, if she gives up on the hope that Madoka can be saved, she'll turn into a witch. Not to mention it means breaking Madoka's dying promise to save her from being tricked by QB.

I think this crazy/broken is kind of a cop out to ignore any legitimate benefit from Homura's actions.
>>
>>100489537
Did you pay attention at fucking all?

She says right in that scene that it's not despair that fills her soul gem anymore, it's ai yo. Even Sayaka and Nagisa are like 'what the fuck is that shit in her soul gem, that ain't normal'.

Just like Madoka became an entity of hope, Homura became an entity of love. (whether that love is pure or selfish or both depends on your interpretation, though most likely it's a mixture of both, the world isn't black and white and neither is Homura)
>>
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Sayaka a best.

Deal with it, nerds.
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>>100490012
Second best after her lover.
>>
>>100489888
There is no misunderstanding. Homura always wanted to prevent Madoka from sacrificing herself.
Remember that Madoka was happy with sacrificing herself to kill Walpurgis in first timeline as well.
>>
>>100489940
There are no timelines, you stupid retard. Movies are just recaps of tv series with fixed animation and Rebellion is continuation of both. Stop failing to this stupid bait.
>>
>>100490050
Kyoko a shit.

Trust me, I'm an expert.
>>
>>100489800
>The Mermaid Witch. Once dreamt of love. The Law of the Cycle split off some of its souls and sent them to the earth. One of them took the form of Sweets. Another took on the form of a mermaid. And the Law of Cycles itself descended upon the surface, more reverently than the morning dew. Her form was like that of a magical girl who once was.

Madokami and the Law of Cycles aren't the same entity as seen by Madoka temporarily reawakening as a goddess while Homura had the Law trapped in her dark orb. It's like Walpurgis, except it transcends time and space. Also, Sayaka and Nagisa mention that they're connected to the outside of the world but never mention anything of an afterlife, just that they had a job to do.
>>
>>100489888
Isn't Madoka keeping Homura into a cage too ?
>>
>>100489940
>>100490074
Please, don't do this.
>>
>>100490116
>Homura had the Law trapped in her dark orb
This is stupid and needs to stop.
>>
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There's also the manga.

Any chance Saya/Kyou will be confirmed or just teased more?
>>
>>100490101
Sayaka a princess.
>>
what was the male:female ratio in USA/Canada/Mexico screenings?
>>
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>>100490159
Oh we're doing this.

>>100490074
What is every single Magi manga?
>>
>>100489495
>Magical girls are probably dying now.
There's nothing that says that considering that there are still demons and that Madoka the human was separated from Madoka the god. You can say just as well that the concept of Madoka's wish is still in existence and continuing the cycle which would explain why Homura still needed the Incubators.
>>
>>100490257
Sayaka a knight!

>>100490222
Never, die, faggot.
>>
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>>100490222
They look pretty gay in the manga from what I've seen
>>
>>100490068
You are correct. Homura always wanted to prevent Madoka from sacrificing herself--so when she misunderstood Madoka in the flower scene as being unhappy with her wish, Homura leapt at that chance.

The misunderstanding is on Homura's part, not Madoka's.
>>
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>>100489992
>>100489854
That's right, but AI YO turned her into this like despair turns magical girls into witches.
Madokami is like super magical girl (god), while Homura is super witch (devil)
>>
>>100490270
60/40~70/30 in Ottawa.
>>
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>>100490339
>>
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>you'll never have a new ovas about Clara Dolls
>>
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>>100490222
For sure.

Deal with it Kevin. They gay as fuck. Might as well be characters in Sakura Trick.
>>
>>100490384
I love how they look like they got caught with their hands down each others pants.
>>
>>100490378
>Madokami is like super magical girl (god), while Homura is super witch (devil)
This is a stupid way of thinking of things, because Sayaka makes it super clear in Rebellion that we're supposed to think of magical girls and witches as the same. That's why Madoka has witch stuff (familiars and Walpurgis elephant, plus Sayaka and Nagisa having control over their witches), too.
>>
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>>100490323
Sayaka a knight-princess.
>>
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>>100490101
You're an expert on shit taste, that we know.

Which in fact does mean Kyouko is the best girl.
>>
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>>100490452
Why is she so silly
>>
>>100490378
Madokami is both magical girl and witch, symbolizing law of hope and despair. Homura is neither, symbolizing chaos.
>>
oscars, haha
>>
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I love you, Ume-sensei.
>>
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>>100490323
Knight or princess, I'm sure Kyouko enjoys fucking her in either form.
>>
>>100489992
Turn the defensive listening knob down from 11, anon.
He's saying that Homura's love wasn't simply created from nothing. It's a fair assumption, because if love itself was so easy to harness, many magical girls would have discovered it countless times before this.

However, if you consider Homura an exception because of what Kyubey's isolation field did to her soul gem, AI YO doesn't seem like an asspull anymore. Homulilly isn't a normal witch. She's cognizant and while witches are normal born from curses, she iss born from the wish to protect Madoka. On top of that, her soul never breaks out of the soul gem and becomes a grief seed. As QB says, she's a chick that was forced to grow inside its shell.
>>
>>100490372
Madoka is happy with her wish, but she has regrets about leaving her family and classmates behind. She is satisfied with what she did, the same as Homura at the end of Rebellion, but this does not mean she is truly happy.

Homura understands Madoka and wants to prevent her from making that sacrifice. That's why she says that they will become enemies.
>>
>>100490339
>>100490384
Tough to tell as always, isn't it? On one hand, there's no hand-holding or anything there, so that can be seen as friendship. But when Nagisa chimes in, suddenly they're both blushing ear-to-ear.
>>
>>100490656
I will fuck you.
>>
>>100490782
Kevin is unfaithful, as expected. It's no surprise that Sayaka decided to bat for the other team.
>>
>>100490622
makes me wonder that if this did happen, would the effects of the wish pass on to the next timeline?
>>
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>>100490782
I assume you're posting a picture of Sayaka because she would indeed want Kyouko to fuck her. Not to blame. Who wouldn't want the best girl?
>>
>>100490434
If they make a sequel, they must have important role.
>>100490503
Maybe you are right, but I think it's because Sayaka was already purified by Madoka. Homura is different.
>>
>>100490771
>Madoka is happy with her wish, but she has regrets about leaving her family and classmates behind.
No, because Madoka was omnipresent and able to be with everyone (she says it so herself). Homura's the one who says that 'won't you be sad being separated from everyone?' Then Madoka basically replies 'lol no bitch, it's all good'

Madoka in the flower scene has no memories and therefore cannot even fathom the choice that she had to make in the series nor what being Madokami would give her.
>>
>>100490916
Tough to tell, isn't it?
Mami and Kyouko prove that magical girls age physically, yet we don't see Homura age at all. Therefore, rather than her possessing the same body throughout all the loops, her soul jumps from the Homura of the old loop into the Homura of the new loop every time.
So no, I don't think so.
>>
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>The precise moment when she lost it.
>>
The entirety of the series is fucking retarded, how could you even expect anything good
>>
>>100491105
But Rebellion proves that Madokami isn't an omnipresent concept who is unable to be perceived by anyone.
I agree partially about the flower scene though. Right after Madoka is like, "I could never do that, I'm too cowardly," Homura corrects her because she knows what the fully realized Madoka is like.

However, what you need to understand that Homura accepts that this Madoka is also the real Madoka and that it's not fair that this Madoka's desires should be stamped out as a sacrifice and waved off with "It can't be helped."
>>
>>100484966
Thanks for the breakdown, Captain Faggot.
>>
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Whatever, nerds. I gotta take a shower and then go to bed.

Tomorrow, I will defeat all the Kyoko fans.
>>
>>100491541
I will help you
>>
>>100491311
Nah, that's just Homura's transformation into a witch completing, and that scene is the conceptualization of her despair--being separated from Madoka.
She 'lost it' a long, long time ago.
>>
>>100491436
>But Rebellion proves that Madokami isn't an omnipresent concept who is unable to be perceived by anyone.
How so?
>>
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>>100491541
Thanks for the laugh. We'll be here enjoying the OTP.
>>
>>100491541
>One 'win' will surely overwrite my countless losses and my past unfaithfulness to my waifu!
>>
>>100491541
Make sure to wash your Kyouko.
>>
>>100490538
Madokami is nothing, she is just a Law of cycles. And she killed her own witch, because she was too dangerous.
Homura can take human form, that already makes her much superior.
>>100490503
Sayaka was dumb bitch there, because she doesn't know how witches were terrifying before Law of Cycles. Of course she was too cocky with Madokami behind. In new Homura's world she probably pissed in her pants after Homura clapped her witch.
>>
I enjoyed madoka, didn't thought it was amazing or what but I genuinely think it's good.
>>
>>100491778
Thanks.
>>
>>100491744
>she doesn't know how witches were terrifying before Law of Cycles
What possibly gave you that idea? Sayaka remembers everything.
>>
>>100491744
>because she doesn't know how witches were terrifying before Law of Cycles.
What? Sayaka has all of her memories, faggot.
>>
>>100491578
She shows surprise and is able to be perceived. You don't think these in any way contradict what was said before?
There are a few ways to reason out this plothole:
a) it's just a retcon.
b) Madokami is nothing but a concept in the final timeline when she splits into a myriad of arrows that save everyone, but when she defeats her witch and reaches enlightenment beyond the laws of karma, time becomes linear for her again and she regains her form.
c) Madokami is beyond time and space normally, but because Homura is an anomaly who cannot be saved by the Law of Cycles, Madoka herself has to take a corporeal form to go get her.
>>
>>100491908
Personally I don't think Madoka was ever "omniscient" and I don't really see why people thought she was. She says that she can see all the universes that ever existed or ever will exist, but how does that tell her what's going to happen in the future? It doesn't. If you have an infinite number of history books that tell every possible variation of the complete history of human civilization from beginning to end, that doesn't tell you which one is going to come to pass.
>>
>>100490503
It's amazing how many people still don't get this.
>>100490994
If you think of Sayaka and Nagisa as archangels, Homura is the strongest angel who refuses to let go of her sin and falls from grace. Hence, Homucifer.
>>
>>100491822
>>100491827
She got Madoka's memories of previous worlds not hers. Madoka has purified her already and made her special part of law of cycles, so she thinks she is so cool and special now, until Homura fucked up everything.
>>
>>100491908
Omnipresent doesn't mean omniscient.

During that moment, it was he first time she was experiencing it, so she very well could be surprised.
>>
>>100492070
Again, what possibly gave you that idea? Everything she says indicates that she remembers the previous world as well, like knowing about Homura's timestop.
>>
>>100492070
Where the fuck are you getting these ideas? Literally no where in the movie is this stated.

Sayaka knows about the previous timelines because she knows what Homura went through and she reassures Kyouko during the witch fight.
>>
Don't ask me how but up until now I've never really known about madoka. I'v seen tons of pictures, and merchandise related when I went to akiba. Can't say i'v seen a lot of threads here because I usually don't browse /a/, but up til now I'v always thought madoka was a light hearted, typical magical girl show full of cute girls doing cute and fun things.

Eventually watched it still without knowing crap about it, and when I realized it was already too late. Maybe it's because I was expected something so different but that made it one of the best watches i'v ever seen.
>>
>>100492190
>I'v
How is it possible to make this mistake so many times when you even got it right the first time?
>>
>>100492190
Good job. We're talking about the sequel movie in this thread though, so you should probably leave if you don't want to get spoiled.
>>
>>100492141
>>100492149
They fucking told that Sayaka and Bebe held Madoka's memories, when Madoka lost it in QB isolation field(Homura's witch barrier). Unlike Homura, she doesn't remembered anything until Madoka saved her soul.
>>
>>100492402
Yes, they held Madoka's memories, but there's nothing to indicate that they didn't have their own memories as well.
>>
>>100492334
Sorry, not native english. I just happened to think about it for the first sentence and then just typed the rest without re-reading myself. Thanks for pointing it out though, i'll try to think about it more often.
>>
I can't believe OP is this fucking mad over THE BEST ENDING EVER
>>
>>100492464
I know that you have to defend your waifu, but
they can't have their old memories, because Madokami recreated the universe and they had absolutely new lifes in new world with law of cycles.
Homura was in special place, because she saw everything.
>>
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>>100492908
>we never saw her use the shotgun
>>
>>100492402
I don't get it. Let's say for a moment that Sayaka actually didn't get all her own memories back, and just had Madoka's. How does that make her any less likely to understand how horrifying witches are?

Putting that aside, Sayaka says that desspite the appearance, the one suffering most from Homura becoming a witch is Homura. She's visibly more disturbed than any other person there. I think it's safe to say she remembers.
>>
>>100492987
>Madokami recreated the universe and they had absolutely new lifes in new world with law of cycles
Yes, and then they died and went to be with the Law of Cycles beyond time and space, and remembered everything that happened to them in the old universe. That is how Sayaka knew about witches and Homura relying on her time stop magic a lot.
>>
>>100493049
>How does that make her any less likely to understand how horrifying witches are?
Because Madokami ALREADY purified all witches in all timelines and universes. Looks like it's 2deep4u

>>100493099
Law of Cycles is Madoka and her memories, they became like a part of her.
>>
>>100493489
I think you might have actual brain damage. Nothing you're saying makes any sense or contradicts anything I said.
>>
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Sup losers.
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>>100493606
Goodbye
>>
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>>100493650
>>
>>100484966
>This is SO fucking stupid
Homura always had it in her.
The movie is so Urobuchi gen it's not even funny, he just fed you all false information and payed the new guy to take the heat. Urobuchi Gen doesn't do happy endings he never has.
>>
>>100493489
I get what you're trying to say and it's completely retarded. That's all I'll give you. Figure out why on your own. My head hurts trying to explain it for you.
>>
>>100493780

Not to mention we have prior evidence of Magical Girls behaving irrationally when their soul gems are tainted.
>>
>>100493557
I'm actually trying to explain that Sayaka is still the same bitch and she is so cool only because she is Madokami's side.
>>100493780
Gen said it's happy end for the main character Akemi Homura.
>>
>>100484966

I don't like your opinion. The first half was pandering. On the second half shit actually happens.
>>
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>>100493929
They just gain the ability to multiclass
>>
Can a boy become a magical... person?
What if a girl wished for her Husbando to be a magical warrior or some shit?
>>
>>100494022
So basically, your dislike of Sayaka is causing you to come up with really dumb theories that aren't supported by the movie at all in order to rationalize away the fact that she was actually pretty cool in Rebellion. Well, that's a new one, I have to admit.
>>
>>100494240
They'd suck at it because they don't have enough emotions for magic.
>>
>>100493929
She's always had Homulust for Madoka, with that kind of power in her hands why would anyone sit back and take a cruel truth like that?
I just don't get why so many fans are being obnoxious about it, and saying it's not canon and this isn't the REAL Homura it's fucking retarded.
This is how both characters were always meant to be perceived, light and darkness and if the darkness doesn't have the light to guide them..
>>
>>100484966
2deep4u
>>
>>100494240
Probably, they'd exist as the girls personal familiar most likely. When the girl goes witch, they'd turn into some horrible abomination that guards their labyrinth.
>>
>>100494240
IIRC all humans have capacity for magic, Kyubeys just choose little girls for lichdom because they're dumb and emotionally unstable enough to generate shitloads of hope and despair.
>>
>>100494549
probably this
>>
Have you accepted that Homura was right?
>>
>>100494267
Everything is explained and I don't dislike anything. Sayaka was useless stupid bitch in the series, then she became part of law of cycles, became Madokami's right hand and got her memories. That gave her a lot of confidence and complacency, so she tried too look cocky near Homura, when she just remembered only few things from her past and failed to fight Mami.
I'm actually love very much, that in the end karma stroke her back for that.
>>
>>100495237
Homura did everything wrong.
>>
>>100495354
She had to do the wrong thing to get the right result. You can't expect a happy ending from just doing the right thing.

or maybe homu lost it
>>
>>100495307
But why would you think that the memories Sayaka has aren't her own? There's no reason to believe that.
>>
>>100495662
Madoka saw everything that happened with her. Why it should be her own?
>>
OP here

Honestly, I can't really pinpoint why I didn't like the movie. Maybe because I liked the ending to the series and didn't feel a continuation was needed.
>>
>>100494836
Something to look forward to in the new season.
Be kind of awesome if by some twist of fate Kyousuke became a magical boy.
>>
>>100495662
Because Sayaka has never found about Homura's time powers. But Madoka knew it.
>>
>>100495865
The series ending made me cry too hard when homu got left all alone in the universe without her Madoka.
>>
>>100495797
That's not a reason.

>>100495904
>Sayaka has never found about Homura's time powers
You mean aside from the timelines where they worked together on the same team?
>>
>>100495952
But Madoka is omnipresent.

Homura was never alone.
>>
>>100495865
But the original was a lie.
>>100493780
>Urobuchi Gen doesn't do happy endings he never has.
>>
>>100484966
Super slow poke here, is there a BD already or are you guys still watching the camrip?
>>
>>100495967
She never knew and didn't understand that Homura could back in time.
>>
>>100496109
Camrip
BD is April 2nd
>>
>>100496109

BD is out in April.
>>
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>>100496147
>>100496157
Thank you, I'll stay a slowpoke until then.

Now I leave to avoid spoilers.
>>
>>100496129
What does that have to do with anything?
>>
>>100496027
That's not how Homu saw it. She was like "I dreamed you went to a place so far away I could never see you again".
>>
>>100496246
you will suffer without spoilers, because you won't understand anything from first watching.
>>
>>100496318
Sorry, I just forgot that arguing with sayakafags is pointless.
>>
>>100496329
>>
>>100496383
Shots fired.
>>
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>>100495890
I'd like to see something like this. at the risk of being accused of a self insert fag.
>>
>>100496535
>>>/sp/
>>
>>100496383
So you have nothing, then.
>>
>>100496471
No more tears, only Madokas now.
>>
>>100496630
I have better things to do than breaking your stupidity.
>>
>>100496712
So that's a yes.
>>
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>>100496625
>Kyoko has yuri goggles
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>>100496708
I like amount of Madokami/devil Homura artwork, but the movie clearly stated that Homura preferes only simple Madoka.
>>
>>100496963
All Madokas are acceptable.
>>
>>100496855
They're even rainbow-colored.
>>
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>>100496963
She can't keep Madokami down forever.
>>
>>100497361
I think red ribbons that she gave her back will do it. I really hope they won't continue this story (atleast not in my life)
>>
>>100496963
>Madokami fighting for Homura's affection
Nothing wrong with that.
>>
>>100497516
They made the movie to continue the story with a second season, retard.
>>
>>100497361
Homu is crazy enough to try it at least.
>>
>>100497651
Tell me after they will officially announce it.
>>
>>100496329
Then Homura has a poor memory, since Madoka specifically said in the finale she was everywhere at once and would always be beside her.
>>
>>100497651
Not necessarily. Using an open ending has the advantage of leaving the series open to much more fanwank. An ambiguous ending has great intrinsic value before you ever even factor the possibility of a sequel.
>>
>>100497651
>delusions
They announced movie trilogy and finished it.

If they don't announce anything with bluray release and bluray won't have any new trailer, you should prepare for 3-4 years break (or maybe forever)
>>
>>100498093
>>100498115
Urobuchi: So, I thought the story would end this time for real (laughs). But both Iwakami-san and Shinbou-san were like, “No, we want the story to keep going after this”
>>
>>100498028
That's because she's a traumatized little girl who needs her Madoka within hugging distance.
>>
>>100498204
>“No, we want the story to keep going after this”
>open ending has the advantage of leaving the series open to much more fanwank.

Do you understand something? Until official announcement you are losing.
>>
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>>100498028
What good is that if she can't be seen? Not to mention she's fighting forever, Homura can't abide that.
>>
>>100498204
I agree with you, by the way. I just want to point out that an open ending has much greater value toward a franchise than simply setting up for a sequel.
>Shinbo: "We don’t think there’s any need to close off the gaps fans have to create those kinds of works. Actually, we decided to continue the story specifically to make this world bigger and more fun to play with. I loved the characters in Madoka Magica, so I wanted to create the story of what happened to them next."

If there's anything to learn from the biggest otaku franchises, it's that fans go crazy over ambiguity.
>>
>>100498818
>so I wanted to create the story of what happened to them next.
>Nope, they totally are going to leave an ambiguous end and do nothing with it, yeah, that makes sense.
>>
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>There are many directions that one can take a “sequel”. For instance, untold stories concerning this character or that one, or stories about the past. Why specifically make a continuation?

>Shinbou: Concerning the kinds of “spinoffs” and “prequels” you just mentioned, I think that groups other than Shaft should go ahead and make those as fanworks. Puella Magi Madoka Magica leaves a lot of room for fanfiction and fan interpretations, and we want all of those to be made. We don’t think there’s any need to close off the gaps fans have to create those kinds of works. Actually, we decided to continue the story specifically to make this world bigger and more fun to play with. I loved the characters in Madoka Magica, so I wanted to create the story of what happened to them next.


>And so you decided to create the story of “whatever happened to those five magical girls”.

>Shinbou: The number one thing I wanted to do was to get all the characters together and set them into action again. At the end of the original work, (Kaname) Madoka became a god, and (Miki) Sayaka disappeared. Those two couldn’t take the stage like that. Actually, seeing all the characters become popular and head off in different directions made me feel like it was kind of a waste. That’s one of the main reasons I wanted to make a continuation.
>>
Rewatched Rebellion a few minutes ago.

The incubators shouldn't have tried to "capture" Madoka. Those motherfuckers got greedy and wanted more more of that despair power or something, right? Should have just been satisfied with the new system Madoka created.

It's technically Homura's fault though. She shouldn't have opened her mouth about Madoka to kyuubey at the end of the series.
>>
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Homucifer, you say?
>>
>>100499826
Maybe that was part of her plan. Or maybe she was just desperate to talk about Madoka to anyone who would listen and not run away from the crazy girl who says her best friend became god.
>>
>>100499150
Cut the defensive listening, I'm making a point tangential to yours, not in opposition to it.

They easily could walk away from the franchise now with massive profits, because what they've done, more importantly than making an open ending, is that the series hasn't dropped the curtains for any of the characters (sans brown Sayaka) which keeps the fans guessing and creating their own stories.
>>
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>>100499985
Is this desperation?
>>
>>100500441
>They easily could walk away from the franchise now with massive profits
They can but they will not, to think otherwise is delusional, they changed the end to allow for a continuation and have expressed their desire to do more with the story, Madoka is one of their most successful series and they going to milking until it is on the fucking ground.
>>
>>100501041
>they changed the end to allow for a continuation
GEN HAD THE ENDING ALL PLANNED OUT, A COMPLETELY CONCLUSIVE END FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED

BUT "THE MAN", $HINBO, JUST HAD TO KEEP THE LITTLE GUY DOWN

REBELLION IS JUST A CASH GRAB WHOSE ONLY POINT IS TO KEEP THE FRANCHISE GOING
>>
>>100500992
Maybe she really did plan the whole thing. She is the smartest meguca.
>>
>>100501385
Hell, no, she's autistic as fuck.
>>
>>100501348
Well, I'm glad that you understand how things are now, goyam.
>>
>>100501550
Of course she's autistic, but she's one of of those smart autists.
>>
>>100501041
So what if that is their intention? You're not bound to contractual stipulations wherein you have to buy everything they put out and accept it. You have a right as a consumer to walk out on the series whenever you please.

I do not understand this entitlement people have. Why pre-order games when you don't know if you'll enjoy them or not, and then complain when SURPRISE, you didn't enjoy one? Why stick around with a franchise if you feel that the series should've ended with the very first iteration? Why are you retarded?
>>
>>100487494
Not to mention the part where the Incubators tending to the field get annihilated by Madoka's arrows as they cry in unison: "I don't understand!"

Must be the worst kind of death for a race obsessed with logic.
>>
>>100498214
>>100498815
So the shtick is she did the wrong thing for the right reasons.

I understand that. I just know it's gonna come back to bite her and Madoka will reascend to her proper place.

My spellcheck says reascend is actually a word. Who knew?
>>
>>100502164
What? What are you talking about? I'm saying that they will make more you want it or not.
>>
What is the extent of Madokami anyway? She can't be omniscient, because she would have known about QB's experiment and Homura's trap.

But the finale implies she can see everything.

So...
>>
homura a shit
>>
>>100502799
I think she saw everything that had to do with her wish. Perhaps she knew what Homura would do but had no way to stop it.
>>
>>100502799
PLOTHOLES!

PLEASE IGNORE!
>>
>>100502889
>had no way to stop it.

Yes, she willingly floated down there knowing full well what Homura would do and even faked a surprise reaction.

If she knew it was coming, she would have pulled a page from her mother's book and slapped some sense into Homura before freeing her soul gem.
>>
>>100502889
>but had no way to stop it.
Yes, she can, with the rare power of fucking talk, all the problems of Homura can be solved if only Madoka and Homura speak as equals.
>>
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>>100502799
Can't see inside the incubator barrier, I guess?

That or she wanted to take a break from being goddess.
>>
Does anyone know how long it typically takes them to release the OST after the bluray release? I'm almost as excited to get the Rebellion OST as the movie itself.
>>
>>100503050
She's bound by the law she created to purify the Soul Gems o all magical girls.
>>
>>100503092
She doesn't need to see the inside of the barrier to see what Homura will do, that happens outside of the barrier.
>>
>>100503122
Yes, but she doesn't have to willing float into a trap.

She could have even said something like "I know what you're thinking, Homura. Don't do it"

She didn't see it coming. Why she didn't and the consequences of that are what confuse me.
>>
>>100487410
apparently an earlier ending had Homura humming "still not right" or some shit over and over.
>>
>>100503122
So? That doesn't mean that her hands are tied, is obvious that she can make plans and other shit to avoid danger.
>>
>>100502799
>>100502924
>>100503050
>>100503073

Omnipresence ≠ omniscience, c'mon you fucks
>>
was getting caught part of her plan ?
>>
>>100503625
Omnipresence was stated
Omniscience was implied, but this movie's logic goes against that implication
>>
>>100503655
Madoka isn't a big guy. Get out.
>>
>>100503625
That's hardly relevant, she still must have seen the signs and be prepared for.
>>
>>100503245
Read >>100503625
Madokami is not omniscient, so she can't have known that Homura was going to steal her human side.

captcha: hightogr sin
>>
>>100504857

Opps, meant to reply to >>100503245
>>
>>100504857
>>100504090
>>100503703
actually she had to have known you dumbfucks, being omnipresent isn't just her only ability, she breaks causality and knows both the futures that will exist and the pasts that existed. Its a giant fucking plot hole. theres no explination for it.
>>
>>100505213
see
>>100492058
>>
>>100504857
But at the end of the series she said she implied that she knew everything.
>>
>>100492058
>>100505253
>>durrr how does seeing all the futures that ever will exist let you know what will happen in the future
you are litterally dumber than a sack of rocks.
>>
>>100505253
See >>100504090
She's still omnipresent and had to see what Homura did and have a plan in case that happened.
>>
>>100505213
That's what I was arguing here >>100503703


Knowing everything that can, will, and has happened is omniscience.
>>
>>100505315
Wow, that addressed nothing. Good job.

>>100505319
Omnipresence doesn't let you know the future. And what "signs"?
>>
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Madoka SHOULD be omniscient. This quote outright says she is.

But the implications of Rebellion mean she CAN'T be omniscient.

It's a plothole, plain and simple
>>
>>100505381
>>that addressed nothing.
Anyone who doesn't understand how actually knowing every future that ever will happen will help you predict what will happen in the future is too stupid to reason with. theres no point in dumbing this down any more because the only option is you are a cat or some other equally stupid animal or you are a delusional fuck who thinks knowing where all the cards are wont help you predict which hand you'll get.
>>
>>100505516
But she doesn't know WHERE all the cards are. She knows that there are 52 cards, of 4 suits and 13 values. That doesn't tell her which hand she will get.
>>
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>>100505489
theres also the posibility that madoka pretended to know nothing and therefore knew the whole time. but the meta interviews by gen and the VA's make this extremely unlikely to be the actual intent of the authors.
>>
>>100505577
no, she does know where all the cards are you stupid fuck, see
>>100505489
>>
>>100505381
That situation couldn't go on many ways, or Homura went with Madoka or not or she tries to do something to prevent it and Madoka must have seen all those posibilidades and have a plan for each one, because after all we are talking about her precious Homura-chan, she had nothing planned for Akuma despite to see it and know that was a possibility.
>>
>>100505489
No, the quote outright doesn't. She's omnipresent. She's saying that she can see everything that has or will happen. Keyword: can.
She didn't say she's seen everything that will happen, she's saying that she will be able to see everything that happens as an eternal and omnipresent being. Nowhere in there does she ever imply she doesn't follow time in linearity like everyone else.
>>
>>100505640
How does that change anything I've said? My whole point is that she can see everything than has happened or will happen, but that gives her no ability to know which of those actually will happen.
>>
>>100505489
She's saying she was present for everything that happened in the past and will be present for everything that happens in the future.
>>
>>100505800
Even then, she knows there are possible futures where Homura tricks her that she has seen.

It shouldn't have surprised her.
>>
>>100505489
Homura is madoka's kryptonite plain and simple.
Everything is explained clear as day, and if you're forgetting the psp game is the story before rebellion.
>>
>>100505757
>>durrr
being this dumb.
listen dumbass, lets say you're right, lets say Madoka didn't watch the whole future, she just can and is closing her eyes the whole time despite that being complete bullshit. She still knew about Homura's past, every last detail of it. and given that the future in question is homura's. its absolutely retarded that you think she doesn't know this is coming.
>>
>>100505751
>>100505891
Or she simply didn't think it was likely to happen. Among the phase space of every universe that could possibly occur, I'm sure there are even stranger events out there than the ones in Rebellion. Homura didn't give any indication that she was going to usurp Madoka until it was actually happening.
>>
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>>100505896
>the psp game
>>
>>Madoka is omnipresent

*cough* Isolation Field *cough*

Seriously /a/, for the people who analyzed everything about Madoka Magica, you fail this movie hard.
>>
>>100505800
>but that gives her no ability to know which of those actually will happen.
Exactly, she knows it's only a possibility, the worst case scenario, and she didn't prepare anything to prevent it, why the fuck she wasn't prepared for the worst scenario where she's not with Homura and Homura ends all alone?
>>
>>100505946
>>contorting this fucking hard
you are absolutely fucking retarded. this isn't chaosland where in one universe homura turns into a duck before madoka can save her and in the other she explodes into a pile of shit. She can see all the things that ever have or will happen, not things that never will happen.
>>
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>>100505946
>I'm sure there are even stranger events out there than the ones in Rebellion
>The dimension where magical girls also grow dicks
>The President Homura dimension
>>
>>100505891
Madoka is extremely naive. She went into the QB nest without knowing exactly was going to happen. Saya and Nagisa were supposed to be her back ups and this was with QB's goal of jacking Madoka as well.
>>
>>100506113
>>without knowing exactly was going to happen
actually she knew exactly what QB was trying to do, thats why she gave her memories to sayaka and nagisa in the first place you dumb shit.
>>
>>100488472
If the problem is entropy, then the solution is trivial: expand the universe.

After all, as the universe expands so does its maimum entropy limit.
>>
>X is so stupid!
I've yet to hear anybody with any measure of intelligence judge things this way and not themselves be "stupid".
>>
>>100506175
I never said I was smart, you don't have to be intelligent to know that 1+1=2.

anyone who is actually dumber than me deserves all the shame and ridicule about it they get if theye going to go around insisting shit like this.
>>
>>100506034
>*cough*
Go away.
>>
>>100506165
>can't read
The point still stands. She didn't know exactly what was going to happen. That's why Sayaka and Nagisa both went, in case something happened to one of them. But why would you have that kind of back up plan in the first place if you already know exactly what's going to happen? It was clear that nothing happened to either of them, and Sayaka mentioned things about unexpected hiccups.

If Madoka was behind the planning, there shouldn't have been anything unexpected. That would mean in the first place Madoka knew there was risk and still took the bait.
>>
>>100505640
>>100505757
>>100505875
So the big question that'll solve this argument is whether that quote means omniscience or omnipresence?

There's other lines to imply Madoka is omnipresent though.
>>
>>100506170
>Being this retarded
>>
Alright alright.. i keep hearing about rebellion but nothing before hand in the game.

Is it just the fact you guy's actually know next to nothing and you're going by rebellion alone?

In that case this whole conversation is a gigantic plot hole.
>>
>>100506292
>>she didn't know exactly what was going to happen
She did know exactly what was going to happen, you are the one that can't read. She said she saw of all futures that will exist. Homura becoming the demon to her goddess is a future that will exist, she knew about it.
>>
>>100506328
it doesn't matter which it means dumbass. No matter which scenario Madoka still knows enough to predict what will happen.
>>
>>100506328
That she's omniscient or omnipresent is irrelevant, the point is that she didn't prepare anything to prevent something that she knew was a possibility.
>>
>>100506242
u mad?
>>
>>100506492
How?
>>Mami, please tie Homura up so she can't grab me.

>>Don't worry Homura-chan, it's for your own good.
>>
>>100506482
You know the funny thing is Jesus christ is all knowing and omnipresent.
You don't see him stopping every catastrophic calamity. Perhaps this was there intention?
>>
>>100506585
See >>100503073
>>
>>100506380
Sorry, haven't watched any Madoka material besides the few four episodes or so. Found it a bit boring and it felt like any future plotwists would be either too telegraphed or just too stupid. Still, it seems to be an enjoyable series if you don't try to think too much into it, as it's a hit.

I probably won't bother ever watching it, neither series nor movies, so I don't care getting spoiled: How's that entropy thinguie the problem exactly? I'm curious as to how a media can treat the heat deah as a threat.
>>
>>100503050
>faked a surprise reaction

If the sequel tries to shove this idea down our throats then the series will officially be shit.
>>
>>100486642
We. Are. Every. One.
>>
>>100506649
And just when would she be able to do that?
>>
>>100506034
They were outside the isolation field by the time Homura rip and tore Madoka.
>>
>>100506857
That's funny, I don't see Madoka being omnipresent.
>>
>>100506781
When she come down in her white dress, with the carriage and the rainbow bridge?
>>
>>100506690
>I'm curious as to how a media can treat the heat deah as a threat.

The only ones who care about heat death are the incubators, its their motivation for treating human girls like cattle. Anyone with a brain will agree that you shouldn't be tricking girls and mentally torturing them to save the world from ending in 100 trillion years from now.
>>
>>100505910
>its absolutely retarded that you think she doesn't know this is coming.
...Even though that's exactly what happened?
You're unable to even comprehend what I'm trying to lay out for you, yet you're insulting my intelligence--classy.
Madoka isn't saying that she has perceived the future. She's saying that she has the ability to perceive everything that will come to pass because she will be present for all of it.
>>
>>100506905
She couldn't stop and talk; she had to purify Homu's Soul Gem before it witched out.

What would she say? "Please don't grab me?"
>>
>>100506690
the only one who cares about that is an alien who worships utilitarianism.
you aren't supposed to identify with him.

>>100506635
Jesus christ is a fucking fairy tale, we're talking about a fictional reality here. Comparing make believe gods in the real world to real ones in a fake world is retarded.
>>
>>100507025
And she isn't present for all of it anymore.
>>
Of course, all this discussion is moot if she was only talking about being able to see alternate timelines before the universe re-write. Since, you know, the entire context of that conversation was that she was telling Homura that she knew all the stuff Homura did for her. She wasn't bragging to Homura about her newfound omniscience.
>>
>>100506992
Using girls' emotions to decrease entropy?

I really doubt that's what MultiVac did.
>>
>>100507099
As far as she knew, she was going to be.
>>
>>100507113
It's been three years and a movie trilogy since Madoka said this. If people still haven't understood something this simple, they probably never will.
So yeah, the discussion is moot.
>>
>>100507113
>alternate timelines before the universe re-write.
She also said she could see timelines of the future, but you bring up a good point.
>>
>>100507025
no dumbass, if you payed any fucking attention to what was happening you would have realized that she did percieve the past and future. It's how she knew that she couldn't save sayaka by any means and let her be a magical girl, its why she knew homura wouldn't fucking forget her 10 seconds after restarting the world. its why she knew all about homura at all. she demonstrated enough use of it to know what was going on.
>>
>>100507044
>She couldn't stop and talk
How you know that? How you know she doesn't have 5min to talk to her? Sayaka talk to
Kyouko without problem before her Soul Gem were completely corrupted, Madoka talk to
Homura without problem before her Soul Gem were completely corrupted in episode 10, Mami talk to Madoka and Homura in the game without problem before her Soul Gem were completely corrupted, etc etc.
>>
>>100507289
>its why she knew homura wouldn't fucking forget her 10 seconds after restarting the world.
Actually, she didn't know that. She said it was possible that Homura would remember. Hmm, if she was omniscient, you'd think she'd be able to know that for sure, wouldn't she?
>>
>>100507113
>>100507272
>>understood something this simple
its like you guys are missing the whole point. Madoka demonstrates more than just her past sight for homura. if you think understanding her past would placate homura you're retarded. Madoka knows that she needs to assure homura that they will meet again one day, and that homura wont forget about her. How do you do that? by talking about how you can see the future you fucking tools.
>>
>>100507083
Wait, you mean the one character (the cat thinguie?) who has found a way to bypass the second law of thermodynamics isn't appropiately credited for that?

I mean, think if we could do that but with doplhins. With enough dolphins, we could build suns from mere bacground radiation!

Why did nobody think of dplphins?
>>
Are camrips any good? That's like someone in the theater with a camera, innit?

Wouldn't there already be subs on that, why are there so many groups that subbed this?
>>
>>100507444
>>this dumbfuck still thinks i'm arguing about omniscience
how do people get this stupid? its truly baffling. she can see the future and was playing coy, you want more proof? watch the scene after that one.
>>
>>100507446
The entire point of that scene was for Madoka to tell Homura that it was only as she is now that she was able to see who Homura truly was, and what she had done for Madoka. Thus, Homura truly was her best friend. She wasn't trying to "placate" her or show off her knowledge of the future.
>>
>>100507113
>I can see all the future that ever has or will happen, guys! Except this one because reasons!
Ok.
>>
>>100507602
Arguing with you is like trying to extract a splinter with hands made of jello and tweezers that are, themselves, made of splinters.
>>
>>100507458
Incubators target humans because they are the most emotional. This is a decision based off the Incubators examining sentient life from all across the galaxies.

It's not worth their time to bother with something like dolphins. Hell apparently it's not even worth their time to bother with male human children, despite men having more karmic power statistically.
>>
>>100507603
Madoka's too nice.

If I suddenly recovered memories of someone stalking me through countless timelines I'd freak the fuck out, not hug them.
>>
>>100507646
That's not what I said at all. I said maybe she can see all the possible future in the old universe, but not the new universe.
>>
Not rocket science people.

>>Madoka is omniscient because she exists in all of time and space.

>>If Madoka is not existing in all of time and space, she is not omnscient.
>>
>>100507289
>knew she couldn't save Sayaka
Except she could've saved Sayaka, but she understands, as the Law of Cycles, that hope and despair are two parts of a whole and that if she writes Sayaka's curses out of existence, she will also write her wish out of existence, undoing everything she fought for.
>knew Homura wouldn't forget her
You're confusing knowledge with faith here. "If we believe, a miracle just might happen!" is what she repeats several times.
>It's why she knew all about homura at all.
You don't get it, do you? Madoka was able to go back in time and learn everything all of the magical girls in the past experienced. Nowhere does she ever say she's gone into the future and experienced everything that will happen. She's simply saying that she exists in everyone's hearts, so when everything does happen, she will be there for it.

The idea I'm trying to convey to you is a fundamental concept. Madoka perceives time as linear just like everyone else in existence does.
>>
>>100507603
>>I'm an absolutely illiterate retard

if youre going to go through the trouble of making a ton of screenshots the least you could do is listen to the movie you're watching. I'll dumb it down for someone so simple as you. if this was the case, Homura and Madoka's talk would have ended at 11:46, not gone for another 2 fucking minutes of Madoka bragging as you put it. theres a reason she was explaining that stuff. it was to assure homura that everything was alright, not that she knew homura's tragic backstory.
>>
>>100507709
She says she can see all the UNIVERSES, you dumb fuck.
>>
>>100507446
Go back and watch that scene, count how many times you see the words 'might,' and 'faith,' and come back.
>>
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>>100507596
Jesus Christ, this entire post.
>>
>>100507825
>can
Doesn't mean she did.
>>
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>>100507596
The camrip came from Japan, bro.
Also, even if it was from the English release, the angle is such that we wouldn't have been able to see the subs.
>>
>>100507925
So this? >>100507646
You are a fucking idiot.
>>
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>>100507913
help me homu homu im 2 dum
>>
I don't see why people are still trying to interpret what Madoka said in ways that contradict what we already know because of Rebellion.
>>
>>100508002
No you fucking dolt. There's probably tons and tons of shit she didn't see that she could have.
>>
>>100507792
She was answering Homura's concerns in some very specific ways.

>b-but you're gonna be all alone out here!
>No, Homura, I'm omnipresent, so I'm by everyone's side all the time, even yours

>but I'll forget you? Are you okay with that!
>No, Homura, since you were able to follow me all the way out here, it's possible that you can remember me even afterwards. Here, have some ribbons. If you believe hard enough, wanting to remember me might be possible.

>Madoka nooooo
>bye, I'll see you later

Which part of this implies...whatever it is you're trying to say?
>>
>>100507769
>>except she could have saved sayaka
no
she couldn't have, except for making her not a magical girl in the first place she couldn't have done it, she fucking says it herself you dumbshit.
>>faith
faith in what? she never says a miracle might happen, she says mahou shoujo create hopes and dreams.
>>you don't get it do you
thats my line you dumbfuck, Madoka didn't go back in time, she went in EVERY Time and erased all the witches. if you where paying even one nonagram of attention you'd know this because the show makes a very big spectacle of her going to the past and future. she says she can see every future that might be and every future that will. you don't say that stuff for no reason.

>>madoka percieves time linearly
no she doesn't you dumbfuck. she litterally comes back in time from the future to kill her own witch.
>>
>>100508117
>she never says a miracle might happen
>>
>>100508105
And you base this on what? In just "can"? Despite all the other evidence showing that she indeed saw everything?
>>
>>100507825
Madokami is at a universal crossroads here. She can see all of the possible paths for her to take, but she doesn't know where they will lead.
>>
>>100508117
What the fuck is a nonagram?
>>
>>100508234
she does know where they will lead you dumbass, see the talk with sayaka.
>>
>>100508216
There is no evidence that Madoka saw everything. There is evidence that there are some things she didn't see. You're trying to argue a point that the show provides empirical evidence against.
>>
>>100508270
What, about how she could save Sayaka, but it would require undoing her wish? That's simple cause and effect. The only way to save Sayaka is to make it that she never became a magical girl, but if that was the case, she would have never made her wish and Kyousuke's arm would never have been healed. That's not exactly multidimensional-level thinking.
>>
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Homura glanced down beneath her feet at the destroyed ruins of Earth below. As she looked back up at the city lights, the memories of her precious Madoka filled her mind. Those days were long gone now: what she thought would be an unending romance ended in disappointment and pain once she turned against her and fought her, only to destroy Madoka in all corporeal and spiritual forms forever. The blissful memories and dreams that Homura held so dear were now locked away in the past, swallowed up by the pain and hardships of life. Homura no longer could look forward to finally being able to take her beloved in her arms and give herself to her. Her life now consisted of forever presiding above the smashed, burned-out rubble of a ruined planet, and she only made enough money to barely pay her rent. A few tears rolled down Homura's cheeks as she realized how foolish her thoughts were, but were quickly swept away by the cold night wind. Homura took in a deep breath, her last one in this miserable life, crushed her Soul Gem, and awaited the final darkness that would swallow her pain and misery forever.
>>
>>100508311
>There is evidence that there are some things she didn't see.

Outside of Rebellion?
>>
>>100508388
No, but what difference does that make?
>>
>>100508384
Took me a second to recognize what this was supposed to be.
>>
>>100508311
She saw everything, her conversation with Mami, Kyouko and Sayaka prove that, the only thing that proves she didn't see everything is Akuma, and that why we call it a plothole.
>>
>>100508388
Madoka didn't seem to know for certain if Homura would be able to remember her in the reformed world, but only concluded that "since Homura made it all this way out here to witness the reformation, she'll definitely be able to remember".
>>
>>100508311
>>obviously rather than being truthful madoka is one giant fucking liar,
You really don't get it do you?
this isn't a shoe horn of some concept to criticize the movie, its a valid fucking plot hole, in other words you stupid cow shit, no matter what outcome you subscribe to, it still fucks something up about the series, for instance, lets say your interpretation is valid. that makes madoka a giant fucking liar, on par with QB, spewing a bunch of bullshit that she never even tested about her abilities and giving false assurances. if I'm right, then her actions in the movie don't make any fucking sense at all unless you assume she is again acting. there is no "winning" here. Its a plot hole.
>>
>>100508494
>She saw everything,
You don't know that.
>>
>>100508494
>her conversation with Mami, Kyouko and Sayaka prove that
No it doesn't?
>>
>>100508572
SHE FUCKING SAID SHE FUCKING SAW EVERYTHING
>>
>>100508117
>except for not making her a magical girl
That's exactly what I mean by saving her--why do you assume otherwise?
>she never says a miracle might happen
. . .

Are you underage? You're completely ruining the idea of anonymous board culture. All of your posts are easy to identify because you make up words, refuse to obey fundamental grammatical conventions, and insult everyone you reply to.
This is a forum for discussion. Other posters are not punching bags for you to vent your anger on.
>>
>>100508439
Just need to know this stuff as I transition from what the tv series implied in its ending and what Rebellion showed to be the truth.

For example, I had thought Homura was willing to protect the world for Madoka's sake in the new universe. Rebellion shows that at most she lasted a year before possibly purposefully informing the Incubators about witches so she could do the plot of Rebellion.
>>
>>100508494
>>100508528
See >>100507764
>>
When Madoka reappears in Ultimate form in Rebellion, she says "oh yeah, I remember now: I came here to pick up Homura".
Maybe she was still recovering from barrier sickness.
>>
>>100508663
She said she can see everything.
>>
>>100508347
it is, because if you payed any fucking attention she's refering to sayaka's tragic downward spiral. Far be it from you to take notice of trivialties like her saying in order to save her she'd have to undo something she didn't undo and talking to directly to the spirit she actually just literally saved. She can see that Sayaka contracting is a hopeless scenario, it will end badly for her in all cases.
>>
Personally, I always thought Homura's powers and fate had precedence over Madoka's. From normal magical girl to God.

Homura's wish was two parts. One, redo her meeting with Madoka, two, protect her instead of being protected.

Her full wish went unfulfilled until the ending of Rebellion. After going through all that shit without having it ever be fulfilled, I would've thought she'd be higher on the karmic burden scale than Madoka.

I'm not saying Madoka was or wasn't omniscient or anything, but that whatever she had, Homura's wish/magical powers allowed her to create a gap in what she could foresee.
>>
>>100508667
This isn't the first time he's done this, he's ruined past Rebellion discussion threads with his incredibly juvenile method of "arguing". I really wish he would get a trip, but I'll call him Spazzy McSperglord in the meantime.
>>
>>100508502
Exactly. Madoka was making the same conclusion that Kyubey made, that Homura would be an exception as a temporal oddity.
If she knew what was going to happen she could've just said so. Instead she used the word 'might' like four different times and told Homura to believe.
>>
>>100508726
>sayaka's tragic downward spiral
...which she personally witnessed every time it happens. That's the past. What part of this requires knowledge of the future?
>>
>>100508692
What? She stopped being omnipresent once she got into the barrier? How that avoids to see what Homura was gonna do BEFORE entering the barrier?
>>
>>100508816
I'd say she couldn't see what would happen to Homura because she didn't re-enter reality yet.

Once Homura did Madoka could tell her future, up to Kyubey sealing her Gem away.
>>
>>100508667
what anger? you guys are acting like retarded shit heads and I'm responding how i would to a bunch of dumb fucks who eat their own shit for breakfast.
>>why do you assume otherwise
see this is the shit I'm talking about "In order to save you i would have had to undo everything" she didn't undo everything, she could tell that no matter what sayaka is going to fall horribly if she becomes a magical girl, not even lasting a fucking month, mind. she knows this is the only outcome for her, because surprise surprise, she can see the past and future.
>>ruining the idea of anonymous board culture
I'm sorry I don't act just like a bunch of fags who argue about best girl all the time and spew forth idiotic tripe, it may make me easier to identify but I'm not going to sink down to that level.
>>
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>>100508170
"Fuck your miracles Meduka."

From all the shitpost I might shitpost as well.
>>
>>100508730
There's also taking into the fact Madoka's wish covers the vanquishing of witches, not devils. If one's magical powers is determined by one's wish.

Then maybe Madoka was just present for every single fate and timeline a witch could possibly spawn, not devils.

Actually, if Incubators also watched over alien species on some other far planet which had emotions and a mahou shoujo system. Would Madoka see and deal with alien mahou shoujo turning into witches?
>>
>>100508848
The Isolation Field was also blocking her from being omnipresent.

If we assume the future is not set in stone, then Madoka could not tell the future of anything in the barrier because she is no longer omnipresent.
>>
>>100508819
oh, how about the fact that there are no witches in the future so all of that knowledge is basically worthless when sayaka can defend her home from demons without getting the shaft (Ie not being rewarded for her troubles in killing familiars)

its a completely different scenario than before.
>>
>>100508730
Yeah, the way I see it, Madoka "protects" all magical girls by taking them away before they turn into witches.

But Homura must protect Madoka, and not be the one protected by Madoka.
>>
>>100508763
Do you ever wonder just what the demographics of meguca threads are? How many dedicated posters have been around for years, and how many lurkers are there for any given thread?
We'll never know, sadly. Yet I can't help but feel sometimes like I'm encountering a writing style I've seen before.
>>
>>100509043
Sayaka is still going to have the problems with Hitomi and Kyousuke and her own self-doubt. She turns into a witch in every timeline she contracts, it's not a stretch to say she'll still burn out and die regardless of the situation.

Or, for a simpler explanation, you could just say that, chronologically, that conversation in the theater takes place after Madoka has already taken Sayaka away after she dies in the new universe, and she was just giving her a glimpse of the result of her hard work (Kyousuke playing) before they went off to yuri valhalla.
>>
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>there will never be another anime as epic as Madoka
>>
Even the lyrics to Kimi no gin no niwa seem to subtlety imply that what Homura did was kind of wrong

On the other side
of the door opened ajar,
there is a world about to collapse
Will morning come?
Or will it turn into night?
While I'm confused about it, light become undone
Until the voice calls out,
let's have a little more fun,
cycling through time like flowers
In the room,
the dream kept singing a tender song
to you the entire time
What is truth?
I chase after
the most believable world
Going to your silver garden
The child
who was lost
was the earliest to come home today, too
I hope I can run
while gazing at a place
that is brighter than righteousness
The guardian
of your young slumber—
The gateway to adulthood is tightly shut
Have you realized
that the truth
always lies in the past?
All futures and hope
are but a selfish story
envisioned by someone in a distant garden
And no one knows yet
Children sing
with voices of dedicated birds
The blazing clock
is hiding something and destroying something
secretively
in the fragrance of flowers
I'm here
Stay softly with me,
please don't leave me
Chirp your song by my window,
even in loss
The dream was concealing
the kind soul's lies and grief
in its arms
The heart lacking in something
is shrouded in light
and takes the shape of a girl
Flying toward the endless beginning,
to the true end
Stay softly with me,
please don't leave me
Chirp your song by my window,
please don't leave me
>>
>>100509157
>Yet I can't help but feel sometimes like I'm encountering a writing style I've seen before.
That's because you've been here for more than a week, anon.
>>
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>>100509157
>Yet I can't help but feel sometimes like I'm encountering a writing style I've seen before.
Oh, do I know that feeling. Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in here with you idiots.
>>
>>100509292
>>its not a stretch to say she'll burn out and die regaredless
what a great ignorant assumption for a goddess of hope to make amirite? all of the scenarios you shit out aren't only wrong, if they where right it would turn madoka into another sadist Kasumi.

why is it not a stretch to say that? because madoka can see the fucking future. you act like she wouldn't use this magical ability to see if there was some way she could nudge sayakas fate around to give her a happier ending or else make double sure. but no, that would invalidate your entire arguement even if its something madoka absolutely would do for someone like sayaka. obviously she'd have never done that.
>>
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>>100509494
I don't mind being trapped here with you.
>>
>>100509420
thats a pretty piss poor translation, I'd look up a better one.
>>
>>100509546
And what do you say to the idea that the conversation took place after Sayaka had already used up all her magic and died and been taken away by Madoka in the new universe? No knowledge of the future required there, because it's already happened. Hell, when else would it have taken place? That's actually the only timeframe that makes sense.
>>
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>Madokami is obviously omnipresent but I'm going to ignore all the evidence that supports that claim only to discard an obvious plothole in Rebellion because Rebellion is a masterpiece that has no flaws
You people are fucking pathetic.
>>
Madoka is just too deep for you. Too epic.
>>
>>100509728
Uh, I do think she's omnipresent. That doesn't mean she knows the future.
>>
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but what even is AI YO
>>
>>100509728
>strawmaning this hard
>>
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>>100509728
The flaw is on Madoka's end. The Rebellion was a success.

All hail the new goddess.
>>
>>100509728
omnipresent != omniscient
>>
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>>100509672
>>durrr
man are you dumber than a fucking pile of shit?
are you just not able to comprehend the fact that it doesn't matter when madoka talks with sayaka because she's going to be making the decision BEFORE SAYAKA CONTRACTS? is it really hard for you to understand that madoka is talking to her friend about a descision she made on her behalf before all this started and why she did it?
>>no knowledge of the future required.
it is required for Madoka to be acting in character, and it is required for madoka to have the information she needs to make a decision when she did. the fact that you keep arguing that madoka wouldn't make use of that resource to get the best possible ending for her friend is fucking an insult in the face of her character.
>>
>>100499985
>>100500992
>>100501385

No way she started planning what she did as early as end of new series. If Homufags wanted to justify her actions then you need the flower scene for the dialogue and Homura realizing that "the real Madoka never asked for this".

Shit, I hope in whatever shitty sequel is made Homura realizes how shortsighted her plan is, falls into despair, is rescued by magical girls and incubators who come to understand one another, and begs Madoka for forgiveness.
>>
>>100509947
I am so glad that will not happen.
>>
>>100509797
>>100509877
We've been through this, Madoka know it's a possibility and did nothing to prevent it.
>>
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>>100509546
Your line of thinking is cute, but clumsy. Why don't you take a step back and leave it to the anons who know the difference between 'were' and 'where'?
>>
>>100509984
>Madoka know it's a possibility
Did she say she knew it was a possibility? No? Then it's only speculation on your part that she did.
>>
>>100509728
Madoka is not omnipresent throughout the entirety of Rebellion.

Hello? "Place Law of Cycles can't enter"?
>>
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>>100509947
No justification needed, it was obviously the right thing to do.

She planned it. QB fags will be forever mad.
>>
>>100509666
http://canta-per-me.net/lyrics/kimi-no-gin-no-niwa/

Is this one better?
>>
>>100510012
>>I dont have an actual arguement so you're an idiot who has shitty grammar.
that doesn't actually make you smarter than me if you can't comprehend basic facts.
>>
>>100510047
She still is omnipresent before enter the Isolation Field and knows what could happen, that not change shit.
>>
>>100510117
She didn't plan it. Refer back to the scene where Homura and Qb have their length talk.
>>
>>100510185
She has amnesia, she doesn't have her memories of the real world.
>>
>>100510155
"Could" not "Would". I'm not talking about before she entered the Isolation Field, I'm talking about when it was made. There is a space Madoka can't enter, meaning she's not omnipresent.
>>
>>100510239
Are you stupid? She regained all her memories at that point, that's why she despair.
>>
>>100509916
Look, it is the fate of all magical girls to have their soul gem burn out and die one day. The only way to prevent that fate is to make them never become magical girls. Sayaka is the weakest of them all, so of course it's going to happen to her first - but it doesn't really matter when it happens, since Madoka will come for them all in the end. If Madoka wanted to avert Sayaka's fate, she would have had to undo her wish, period.
>>
>>100506992
It's like a handful of girls who are suffering for the sake of countless future civilizations.

In the series, Kyuubey says that "someday, humans will take to the stars" or something. I bet he's hinting that humans will become even more technologically advanced than they are already in that universe and start colonizing space and shit. They'll keep spreading their civilization because that's how it works and as the millenia pass by we will have more and more humans/descendants of humans and THEN we'll have to worry about entropy. At that point, we would have to either rely on the incubators or take up the mantle and fight off heat death.

I can't believe human girls in their teenage years are the key to breaking the rule of energy loss, there's gotta be more than one alien species that can experience emotion. Magical Girl Aliens in Space when?
>>
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>>100510498
>"someday, humans will take to the stars"
Unless the planet is destroyed by a god-level witch before their society can advance that far, but what are the chances of that happening, right?
>>
>>100510264
But she knows what is happening, that's why she created the plan with Sayaka, the Isolation Field only prevents Madoka of saved Homura.
>>
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>>100509947
>straw man straw man straw man
In the first place I don't agree with flower field as a moment of Homupiphany. Homura has seen Madoka martyr herself nearly 100 times and has had Madoka personally ask her to stop Kyubey from ever making a contract at least once.
>>
>>100510621
>I don't agree with flower field as a moment of Homupiphany
Then you weren't paying attention. The entire damn point of that scene was to make Homura think that Madoka is not happy as a goddess, that it's something she never wanted to happen but was forced into anyway. Without that scene, the entire ending would have made no sense.
>>
>>100510599
Yes, she knows what Kyubey plans to do, but she doesn't know if she will succeed.

In fact, Sayaka and Nagisa talk about not being sure if they would both survive.
>>
>>100510148
You've already expressed your inability to comprehend what's being laid out for you. You don't address the points actually being made--you misinterpret them every time because you lack reading comprehension.
>>
>>100510704
Because she is omnipresent, not omniscient, that doesn't contradict anything I said.
>>
>>100510828
Kyubey creates a space Madoka can't enter except as a not-omnipresent human. When Kyubey creates that space, then Madoka is by definition not omnipresent. Is that hard to understand?
>>
>>100510700
It's not Homura who needs to learn that, it's the viewer. Rebellion can't exist as a stand-alone work if it relies too heavily on exposition of past events.
For Homura, the flower field only reinforces what she believed from the start. Her losing her way in the new timeline and forgetting all of this is also intrinsic to Rebellion. For all we know from the series, Homura is extremely discontent.
>>
>>100510986
>For all we know from the series, Homura is extremely discontent.
Yes. Lets just ignore everything about the last few scenes telling us that she accepted Madoka's decision.
>>
>>100510986
>For Homura, the flower field only reinforces what she believed from the start.
This is not the face of someone who's having her pre-existing beliefs reinforced. This is the face of someone who just had a bombshell dropped on them.
>>
>>100510932
That doesn't change fact that Madoka already know about all the other futures, anon, Incubators only created a small space outside of space and time where Madoka couldn't see, Madoka can still see what will happen before and after that space was created.
>>
>>100511057
To be fair, Homura's barrier shows that even if she accepted it, she didn't want it.
>>
>>100511273
Before, yes. After, depends. If the future can be changed, and it changes when Madoka was not omniscient, would she see it happen?

She would see it might happen, but that's not the same as seeing what would happen.
>>
>>100511324
Of course Homura didn't want it. That's even shown in episode 12. But what's important is that she accepted it and decided to fight for the world that Madoka loves so much. And she was happy doing it.
>>
>>100511447
I don't know if I'd say she was happy doing it. She was willing to do it, but she still cried when she was close to Madoka after Sayaka died. And she also called the world an "irredeemable cycle of hatred" or whatever.
>>
>>100511447
That's what I miss most from the tv series, still it's understandable that eventually Homura might lose hope being by herself. She doesn't seem like one who can put faith in something she can't see.
>>
>>100511057
She had no choice. She was powerless to stop Madoka and had to accept the cold reality of her new life as opposed to giving up hope altogether.
>>100511067
You remember what happens right after this frame, right? The hallway scene flashes through Homura's mind. As in, "oh yeah, shit, I was right the whole time! Now I remember what I said to Madoka countless times, that it's fine to remain Kaname Madoka, and that kindness alone doesn't solve everything."
>>
>>100511447
Exactly. But all Homura needed was an excuse to not accept it anymore. And Madoka gave it to her.
>>
>>100511447
>happy doing it
>succumbs to despair
Ok.
>>
>>100511441
She can still see all the future, this is not a difficult concept, she doesn't see what happening in the Isolation Field but can see all the futures that the Isolation Field can create.
>>
>>100511558
>>100511780
She smiled more times in episode 12 than all 11 other episodes combined.
>>
>>100511067
Because her soul gem was tainted with despair, she'd lost all hope at that point. Madoka only gave back the hope that was Homura's to begin with.
>>
>>100511703
>The hallway scene flashes through Homura's mind. As in, "oh yeah, shit, I was right the whole time! Now I remember what I said to Madoka countless times, that it's fine to remain Kaname Madoka, and that kindness alone doesn't solve everything."
She told Madoka to not become a magical girl because the result would be either dying or turning into a witch. That's a different scenario than Madoka making a wish with full knowledge of the consequences, as she did in episode 12. She was willing to accept Madoka becoming a goddess, even if she wasn't happy with it - hell, she spent the first part of Rebellion fighting for it, she thought that the witch's barrier was a mockery of Madoka's sacrifice and it made her angry. It was only after the flower field scene that she decided that Madoka's sacrifice was a mistake she never should have let happen.
>>
>>100510598
Homu looks like she's gonna get raped by Kriemhild Gretchen.
>>
>>100511897
Yup, and now it's retconned anon. All they need to do now is remove the final quote from future dvds, go the Star Wars route of changing shit after the fact.

"Don't forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
--As long as you remember her,
you are not alone."

After all it doesn't really fit for someone ready to fuck up her goddesses world.
>>
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>>100512076
Nonsense, Gretchen just wants to spread SALVATION to every boy and girl.
>>
>>100511847
Yes, this is what I meant. All the futures the Isolation Field can create..

Including the one where Homura became the devil, but also ones where she died. Or where Kyubey's plan succeeded. Or they never broke the Isolation Field and lived in Homura's barrier forever. Or the ones where everything went right and Homura was taken to the Law of Cycles.

The point is we don't need to say Madoka's omniscience wasn't as good as we thought it was; something was blocking it throughout the movie.
>>
>>100511897
The only time she smiles is when she's thinking of Madoka. Not exactly over her loss, is she?
>>
>>100512045
>>hell, she spent the first part of Rebellion fighting for it, she thought that the witch's barrier was a mockery of Madoka's sacrifice and it made her angry

And who's witch barrier was it?

It certainly wasn't Sayaka's.
>>
>>100511897
She smiled a lot in the scene with Junko because it was all nostalgic and stuff, and who can be sad when Tatsuya is being so adorable? It's nice to think that someone other than her remembers Madoka, even if it's in a very small way.

She doesn't smile at all during the next scene.
>>
>>100512253
Well yeah, the fact that it was her own barrier all along just makes it worse, in a way, since her own subconscious is betraying her mission.
>>
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>>100512045
Colorful and the field scene imply that Homura had a totally different purpose but that she lost her way somewhere within the despair of losing Madoka.
>>
>>100512156
Exactly, she saw all these bad results and she didn't plan anything to prevent what we can assume is the worst scenario, Akuma Homura.
>>
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>>100512123
>--As long as you remember her,
>you are not alone.
Do you not see the foreshadowing there? Colorful spells it out for you.

--Homura forgets her,
and then she is alone.
>>
>>100512514
Now that you point it out I do, I guess I have trouble having to convert optimistic messages into pessimistic ones due to what Rebellion added.
>>
>>100512298
I don't know, anon. I think it was an important directional decision to place emphasis on her smiling. You should take note of the lack of smiling throughout the rest of the series. Part of the point they were trying to get across with that scene is that she's happy now.
>>
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>>100512744
>convert optimistic messages into pessimistic ones
Gen's good at that, isn't he?
>>
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>>100512514
Yeah, Colorful is pretty telling.
The lyrics are all about the new world's Homura's brand of hope and how Madoka gives her world color.

...So why do we see a colorless Homura? Clearly she has lost her hope.
>>
>>100512856
Butcher probably had nothing to do with that.
>>
>>100512439
Well, how? Akuma Homura depends on Homura's actions. If Madoka tried to constrain Homura's actions...well, then she'd be acting like Homura.
>>
>>100512856
Yes he honestly is, I got positively emotional during the tv series ending which was expected since touching things do tend to get to me. However Rebellion showed how much I care about this series due to how bitter, genuinely angry, and unhappy I've felt from how Rebellion ended both due to what it changed from the tv series and due to what it implies will happen if they write a sequel.

I find myself wondering if Madokami is actually still working properly without Madoka present, or what the consequences should be when a concept loses the humanity that it was bonded too. To a lesser extent I care about Homura's ending, but that's only because I can't see Madoka ever doing something like not forgiving Homura and sending her to Hell or something like that.
>>
>>100512991
I already said twice in this thread, Homura problems can be solved if Madoka and Homura have an honest conversation where they are equal.
>>
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>>100512830
She's happy in that one scene. Rebellion skips forward to the very end of her career as a magical girl. We are left to fill in the blanks herself.

What do you think Homura's life is like, being a magical girl? She obviously split up with Mami and Kyouko after Sayaka died. Perhaps because it hurts to be around them if they don't remember Madoka, or perhaps it's just her self-loathing again. She spends an indeterminate amount of time utterly alone, to the point that she apparently starts to doubt if she's even sane and Madoka ever existed. All she has left to fight for is an ideal of protecting the world that she doesn't even believe in, but she keeps going because it's what she thinks Madoka would want. The happiness of seeing a child scratching a drawing of Madoka in the sand isn't going to last for long.
>>
>>100512991
>implying they aren't the same
>"If any law stands in my way, I will destroy it! I will rewrite it!"
>>
>>100513391
Wishes are fair game for rewriting the universe, AI YO is cheating.
>>
>>100513391
They do basically the same, rewrite the universe, but the intentions and methods make all the difference, anon.
>>
>>100513191
Well they didn't have the opportunity in Rebellion. Madoka didn't have any of her memories, and when she regained her memories she had to fufill her duty as the Law of Cycles.

If Homura spoke up at that point I'm sure things would have worked out differently, but Homura didn't, and it's clear Madoka believed Homura would want to go with her in the end. (Demon Homura just being one possibility). Since she's not omnipresent, Madoka is not infallible.
>>
>>100513391
There's a difference between altering cosmic law and altering human decisions. Madoka's wish respected the wishes of other magical girls.

But in the end, Homura did not respect Madoka's wish.
>>
>>100513194
This seems accurate. She wasn't happy. This series is so sad.
>>
>>100513423
>>100513532
Madoka creates peace for magical girls in nirvana.
Homura creates happiness for magical girls in the mortal realm.
There's no reason why they should fight when their combined sacrifices have given the girls complete happiness.
>>
>>100513691
>But in the end, Homura did not respect Madoka's wish.

She respected the wish enough to allow the Law of Cycles to continue to do its job, but that could be simply a side-effect since the Law of Cycles helps preserve a Madoka-safe environment for Homura.

I would say that Homura did not respect Madoka taking responsibility for her own choices. Especially when Madoka had no regrets about becoming a goddess.
>>
>>100513856
>Homura creates happiness for magical girls in the mortal realm.
Except for Madoka, all the "happiness" she's created has been totally accidental. She doesn't care about those other girls, and I don't think she'd hesitate to trample on anyone's wish if it got in the way of Madoka's happiness.
>>
>>100513691
>Madoka's wish respected the wishes of other magical girls.
No, one wish stood in her way. Why do you think Homura doesn't have a shield in the new world?

Face it, the whole Homura-Madoka conflict is just them fighting over who gets to be the martyr.
>>
>>100513856
>Homura creates happiness for magical girls in the mortal realm.

She creates happiness for Madoka and anyone else who gets a happy ending is purely coincidental or gets one because it has an effect on Madoka (ex. Seeing Mami sad would make Madoka want to do something to help her)
>>
>>100513856
Oh, exactly. But they will fight, because they won't understand each other's actions.
>>
>>100513924
Plus we don't ever know if magical girls can find peace in nirvana in Homura's world.
>>
How did Homulilly got all those people inside her barrier?
How many time were they trapped there?
If Madoka was inside a completely aislated system, what happened outside? Did MG started to go witch again?
>>
>>100513924
>She doesn't care about those other girls, and I don't think she'd hesitate to trample on anyone's wish if it got in the way of Madoka's happiness.
For all her talk, she never kills any of them and never gets in the way of any of their wishes in the series even though their mistakes only make Madoka sad.
>>
>>100513960
>fighting over who gets to be the martyr.
Not really. For Homura to be a martyr, she'd have to be sacrificing herself. She's not really doing much of that anymore. She's a divine entity and there's nothing stopping her from attempting to rebuild a friendship with Madoka anymore.
>>
>>100514221
>>100514016
>>
>>100514221
She's perfectly willing to kill Sayaka in order to spare Madoka the trauma of having her be a witch though.
>>
>>100514120
>How did Homulilly got all those people inside her barrier?
Her familiars kidnapped them.
>How much time were they trapped there?
A month passed inside the isolation field.
>If Madoka was inside a completely aislated system, what happened outside? Did MG started to go witch again?
Unknown, we don't know if the time went at same pace in and outside the isolation field.
>>
>>100514120
>>How did Homulilly got all those people inside her barrier?
The familiars caught them. We see a little of it during the movie. There's also a scene where the familiars lead Madoka into the barrier.

>>If Madoka was inside a completely aislated system, what happened outside? Did MG started to go witch again?

The Law of Cycles would still be present; but "past"-Madoka wouldn't know if she was looking at the actual future or an alternate timeline.
>>
>>100514221
Homura's entire morality revolves around "What would Madoka think?"

And Rebellion showed that even that morality isn't full proof since she was willing to go against Madoka's wish simply because a more ignorant Madoka said she loved her parents and friends and would never want to leave them.
>>
>>100513924
>>100514016
Since when are positive externalities a bad thing? Happy friends make a happy Madoka makes a happy Homura.
>>
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>>100514243
>She's a divine entity and there's nothing stopping her from attempting to rebuild a friendship with Madoka anymore.
Yes, there's something, is called Homura.
>>
>>100514243
halfluminous.png
So long as the fallen angel embraces sin, they can never attain nirvana.
>>
>>100514598
Homura can be friends with Madoka. The problem is that neither of them will be satisfied with just that, and the power imbalance between them will make anything more impossible.
>>
>>100514528
Because the moment the situation changes and anything looks like it may threaten Madoka's happiness, Homura won't hesitate to destroy it. Unlike Madoka, she values individual happiness above the world.

Also, Homura is never happy.
>>
>>100499964
NO
>>
>>100514598
At the end of Rebellion, she tries to reconcile with her again.
>>
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>>100514243
>there's nothing stopping her from attempting to rebuild a friendship with Madoka anymore
Surely you don't actually believe this.
>>
>>100514706
>Homura can be friends with Madoka.
No she can't, that was the whole point of the scene in the hallway and the post-credits scene.
>>
>>100514509
>ignorant
Did you miss the point of her epiphany? Homura thought this Madoka was simply an ideal, a dream, but she realizes that this is also the real Madoka. She knows that Madokami has the strength to do what is right, but she still wants to protect human Madoka despite that. That's why she splits the two, leaving the Law of Cycles intact.
>>
>>100514720
The best way to make Madoka happy is to make everyone else happy.
>>
>>100514785
What's stopping her? Homura made everything perfect for her. She even sent Madoka to America for three years to weaken her friendship with the other girls.
>>
>>100514803
Of course Homura can still be Madoka's friend. The problem is that Madoka is the Suzaku to her Lelouch so they will be enemies as well.
>>
>>100514876
The fact that Homura hates herself and thinks she's unworthy of any sort of affection?
>>
>>100514876
"One day we might be enemies"
>>
>>100514936
Actions > thoughts
>>
>>100514893
>Of course Homura can still be Madoka's friend.
They can't, Homura discard completely that idea, go see those scenes again.
>>
>>100514829
Yeah it's the real Madoka with no memories of the knowledge she gained during the tv series universe. Of course a Madoka with no experience of that universe will say she'd never abandon her friends and family, but give her the memories of girls dying and becoming witches throughout human history and she'll make the same sacrifice; something that Homura even mentions in that field of flowers scene.
>>
>>100515008
Clearly she was trying to be Madoka's friend again, but then realized that she couldn't if she wants to keep Madoka from going Madokami.
>>
>>100515001
Emphasis on "might". Homura is going to keep trying despite that.
>>
>>100515008
And she's not going to take any action.
>>
>>100514720
Really? Because I pretty clearly remember Homura leaving Sayaka alive in Rebellion just like she did in the series.
>But she was going to kill Sayaka in the series until Kyouko stopped her!!
All Kyouko did was buy Sayaka 10 seconds of stumbling away before Homura used her timestop. If Homura wanted Sayaka dead, it would have happened.
>>
>>100515134
dat speculah.
>>
>>100515123
>then realized that she couldn't if she wants to keep Madoka from going Madokami.

Hardly. If anything, she needs to stay as close to Madoka as possible to keep her suppressed.
>>
>>100515177
Exactly. The next installment will focus on Homura trying to rekindle her friendship with Madoka. Homura gets everything she wants.
>>
>>100515008
Her actions show her alienating herself from everyone who considers her a friend while fragments of her shattered psyche throw stuff at her and make allusions to suicide.
>>
>>100515239
She doesn't care about Kyoko, Mami, or Sayaka. She did however try to befriend Madoka again.
>>
>>100484966
This show was complete shit and any body who loved it is a retarded faggot
>>
>>100515146
>Homura leaving Sayaka alive in Rebellion just like she did in the series
Wat? She had no reason to kill Sayaka, she's not a threat.

>If Homura wanted Sayaka dead, it would have happened
Homura was literally seconds away from blasting Sayaka's face off. The only reason she didn't is that Kyouko stopped her. There's no arguing against this. Presumably the reason she didn't continue to chase after Sayaka was that she had to go and prevent Madoka from making a contract by the fountain, which she was literally seconds away from being too late to stop.
>>
>>100515130
She gives Madoka's bloody ribbon back. That's basically saying "I can't be your friend anymore".
>>
>>100515303
What a fag. This show is easily one of the most epic.
>>
>>100486559
>Faggot

Go back to >>/v/
>>
>>100515116
And in Homura's world, girls don't become witches, as evidenced by Homura saying that she hasn't tampered with the Law of Cycles and the fact that wraiths still exist.
Human Madoka doesn't have to sacrifice herself for anything. Just exactly what is the problem with her being happy?
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>>100515312
No, it's not! It's a symbol of Homura's victory. She doesn't need the ribbon anymore since she has the real Madoka.
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>>100515293
And she fails and realizes that will never be friends for what she did.
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>>100515312
The ribbon represented the premise of them meeting again. She doesn't need it anymore.
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>>100515395
She'll definitely try again. She's almost obligated to.
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>>100515293
Not exactly. Homura knocked over the teacup because she was reaching out to Mami. The familiars were asking for an apple from Kyoko because they were acting out Homura's desire to be Kyoko's friend.
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>>100515395
No, she realizes that there may be conflict in their future. That doesn't mean that they won't be friends.
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>>100515469
What the fuck? You cannot be this delusional.
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>>100515469
This is some /u/-tier shit.
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>>100515177
She stalked Madoka in the series too, doesn't mean they became friends.
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>>100515384
>>100515425
Once again, she only takes it off when she says her and Madoka could become enemies.

Friends don't tell friends they could become enemies.
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>>100515293
>Doesn't care about Kyouko, Mami or Sayaka
Everything in the series and Rebellion shows that she values their lives and wouldn't throw them away as tools for Madoka's sake.
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>>100515648
She would have been, if it wasn't for unfortunate coincidences like Madoka catching her trying to kill Kyuubey.
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>>100487486
>Homu will be saviour again
We will never have enough Homu
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>>100515686
>Friends don't tell friends they could become enemies.

This is anime.
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>>100515696
Homura was going to murder Sayaka. She didn't bat an eyelash when Madoka murdered Mami.
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>>100515375
It goes against the spirit of the show for Homura to have her cake and eat it too. It can almost be argued as Deus ex Machina that AI YO worked for Homura but not when it was attempted by Kyoko/Madoka to save Sayaka.

There are hints that the Law of Cycles has been tampered with, the first being Sayaka is obviously upset at what Homura has done. The second is the question why Madokami seems rather adamant to bond with Madoka again, since it happens pretty much on the first day Madoka meets Homura.

There is theory here that Madokami purges witches, but there is no afterlife for magical girls, the afterlife is ruined, or Madokami just absorbs magical girls within herself like Gretchen. I'd be the most satisfied if this turned out to be the truth, Homura shouldn't be allowed to completely break Madoka's trust and get the best ending out of it.
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>>100515500
>>100515535
I disagree with his point about Mami, but he has a point when it comes to the familiars.
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>>100487881
Thier pair will broken in the next movie that's Gen style.
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>>100515500
>>100515535
Watch the goddammn scene anon. Homura isn't dropping the teacup. She's knocking it out of the way by moving her hand forward. Not sideways, forward - in Mami's direction.

And we all know the Clara Dolls are acting out Homura's subconscious thoughts, what with the tomatoes, the suicides, the gott ist tot. The familiars wants an apple from Kyoko. That means Homura wants an apple from Kyoko.

Your the delusional one anon.
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>>100515696
>at the last moment decides not to shoot Mami in the fucking soul gem

All that shows is she's not a complete sociopath.
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>>100515798
Hell even in Timeline 1, Homura's reaction between Mami dying and Madoka dying is vastly different.

Saving Mami wasn't even in the equation of her wish during that first timeline.
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>>100515713
>The more I repeat all this, the further in time we drift from one another. Our feelings also drift apart, and my words don't reach you anymore. The truth is, I think I lost myself a long time ago.

Homura's experiences distance her from everyone, especially Madoka. Madokami is the only one Homura could ever talk to on equal ground, but that's the one Madoka she can't allow to exist. It's even worse in Rebellion, once she sees herself as a devil who corrupts everything she touches.
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>all these people thinking that Homura will try to be friends with Madoka now
Yeah, delusions works wonderfully for Homura, I'm sure is going to work wonderfully for you guys too.
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>>100515977
Yes, and that's going to mess things up for her later, but she's still going to make the effort to be friends with Madoka.

The problem is that merely being friends with Madoka isn't what she really wants.
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>>100516013
She will, but first she need to destroy all magic so Madoka becomes a normal girl again.
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>>100515860
You have a point with the idea that she may be seeking Kyoko. However, the allegory involving the tea cup seems forced. But since they were presented in the same light from a directional standpoint, and were obviosly supposed to be giving the same message (the only difference being the object of affection), it seems accurate.
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>>100515798
She has to comfort Madoka. Are you seriously ignoring all of the parts of the series and Rebellion where she doesn't kill Mami? Every time in the series when she could have stopped time and killed her, she doesn't. In Rebellion when she thinks Mami is helpless against her, she aims for her leg.
>>100515305
There is though. The argument being that she was trying to threaten Sayaka into taking the soul gem.
>Presumably the reason she didn't continue to chase after Sayaka was that she had to go and prevent Madoka from making a contract by the fountain, which she was literally seconds away from being too late to stop.
Again, timestop. Sayaka literally had ten seconds to stumble away from Homura. It would not no effort at all to kill her, as Homura says herself.
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>>100515860
No, I am not going to accept that the reason for the teacup being knocked over is that she's fucking clumsy, that would be an absolutely pointless addition to the movie. The parts with both Kyouko and Mami show the same thing - Homura is distancing herself from everyone.

>The familiars wants an apple from Kyoko. That means Homura wants an apple from Kyoko.
And what does the fact that she explicitly rejects the apple mean? She may want companionship on some deep level, but on a conscious level, she is not willing to accept it.
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>>100516013
>she tried to do it once
>she pretty much has to try again or at least stay near her
it's a fair assumption
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>>100516178
>Again, timestop
If Homura had taken even one second longer to get to Madoka, she would have been too late. There was no time to go after Sayaka, timestop or no. It's not an unlimited-use power, you know.
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>>100516013
Why else would she fuck up Madoka and Sayaka's friendship other than to steal Sayaka's spot as best friend?
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>>100515903
She had nearly a hundred timelines to kill any of the girls of her own volition even once and never did. Nothing is stopping her but her own moral compass, because if she kills someone and it doesn't work out, she can just reset.
She doesn't hesitate if she's unable to save them, but that is completely different from killing them herself.
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>>100516318
Madoka and Sayaka still know each other from their time as kids. Homura is just the incredibly creepy girl who molested her at school and gave her some new ribbons.
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>>100516178
>She has to comfort Madoka.
Right, so that means Homura won't have a visceral reaction if she really cares. No, anon. She didn't care about Mami and had no reaction to her death. You bring up a good point about her not going for Mami's Soul Gem though.
>Every time in the series when she could have stopped time and killed her,
Homura has no reason to try to kill Mami. It was never part of her plan.
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>>100516408
She doesn't kill anyone she has no reason to kill, because she's not just a dick. But she'll kill someone who's in her way if she has to.
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>>100503100
OST is packaged with limited edition BDs
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>>100516306
If Homura was trying to conserve her magic in that scene, she wouldn't be threatening Sayaka with purple magic, she would have a gun out. Therefore, your logic dictates that Homura never meant to kill Sayaka.

Of course, your logic is also flawed in that you assume Homura knew Madoka and Kyubey were talking at the fountain.
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>>100516669
So exactly what in your mind do you think Homura was planning? If Kyoko never showed up and physically stopped Homura what would Homura have done to Sayaka?
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>>100516182
>> the reason for the teacup being knocked over is that she's fucking clumsy
It's symbolic, anon.
>>And what does the fact that she explicitly rejects the apple mean? She may want companionship on some deep level, but on a conscious level, she is not willing to accept it.

Exactly.
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>>100516669
It's not about conserving magic, it's about not timestop not being all-powerful. She can't just accomplish everything she wants to do in zero seconds. If she had tried to go after Sayaka, she would have been too late to stop Madoka - period.

>you assume Homura knew Madoka and Kyubey were talking at the fountain.
How did she even know they were there at all? Presumably she has her ways if she was able to show up in time.
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>>100516789
How is knocking over a teacup symbolic of reaching out to Mami? That doesn't make any sense.
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>>100516423
Desensitization to death and actually being comfortable with killing others are completely separate and Homura never once crosses this boundary. She threatens it and alludes to it, but talk is cheap. She's had a myriad of opportunities to kill someone for her own benefit and never once acted on any of them.
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>>100516036
>but she's still going to make the effort to be friends with Madoka
We have know way of knowing that. Based on the symbolism and what we know about Homura, it's much more likely that she won't try.
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>>100516917
The teacup itself is symbolic of Mami and how she reaches out to people. Homura knocking it over is the part that is similar to the familiars throwing away the apple.
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>>100516917
Mami is a tea addict.
She gives tea and cakes to her friends.
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>>100516982
So knocking over the teacup is symbolic of rejecting Mami, I'm glad we agree.
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>>100516963
No, that's ridiculous. Homura told Sayaka that she had better play nice in school or else Madoka might not like her, and she bothered to send Madoka to America for 3 years in order to make Madoka easier to approach. Homura wouldn't give up on being Madoka's friend just because Madoka almost awoke in the hallway and said that order is more important that personal desires.
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>>100516947
Aside from that time she tried to kill Sayaka.
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>>100516947
>Desensitization to death
She definitely displays that when Madoka dies, yes. Also she never wanted to kill Mami not because she likes her, but because there's no use in killing her.
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>>100516784
When threats don't work, she'll simply turn and walk away. She's okay with giving up on the others. I'm simply arguing that she isn't a killer. She always looks for a different option rather than take the pragmatic course of action.
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>>100517026
Not the guy that argued Homura sub-consciously wants Mami as a friend. If anything I think it makes more sense that Homura outright rejects Mami but sub-consciously wants to be Kyoko's friend while consciously denying herself.

I mean she did put her trust in Kyoko while in the incubator isolation field.
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>>100517074
Sayaka being mean to someone for no reason would be something Madoka wouldn't like regardless of whether they were friends or not. And sending Madoka to America was just a way to reverse the transfer student thing, there's no saying that it was specifically to mess up Sayaka's friendship, especially since Madoka and Sayaka still know each other.

>Homura wouldn't give up on being Madoka's friend just because Madoka almost awoke in the hallway and said that order is more important that personal desires.
No, she gave up before that.
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>>100517157
She was totally going to kill Sayaka. You're crazy.
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>>100517157
So you think that she was going to shine a purple light in Sayaka's face for a couple seconds and then say "uhh I gotta go do a thing" and walk away? That's inane.
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>>100517157
That is logical and it was repeated again when Homura could have killed Mami to get to Bebe but choose not too.

I'm convinced, but then again this show's open interpretation makes me think something new every day...
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>>100517241
>>100517223
Deep down Homura is pretty cowardly in the sense that she won't take the most pragmatic option. I wouldn't be surprised to see her just coldly turn away after she gets more control of herself.
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>>100516862
>How did she even know they were there at all?
Why do -you- presume she knew in the first place? If Homura always knew where Madoka was, Sayaka wouldn't have needed to contract in the first place.
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>>100517411
Because she found them. Duh?
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>>100517342
There's nothing in the episode to actually support that idea. By all appearances, she was fully committed to killing Sayaka. It wasn't in a fit of rage or anything, she was in control of herself.
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>>100517241
>"uhh I gotta go do a thing"
It's pretty clear how closed you are to any avenue of speculation besides your own. Obviously if Homura was going to walk away, she would give Sayaka a downward glare before flipping her hair and spinning on her heel. She would then make a cold, condescending remark like she does in literally every episode.
Homura's character in the final timeline isn't that hard to understand, is it?
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>>100517647
I was being humorous with that line. But if she was going to walk away, she would have done so earlier, before she started reaching towards Sayaka's face. She likes to maintain an aura of being cool and detached, and it's not very cool to pussy out of killing someone for no apparent reason after making a speech about how there's no reason to let her live.
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>>100517411
>Killing Sayaka is best for Madoka (in Homura's mind)
>She says she is going to kill Sayaka
>She begins the process of killing Sayaka
>nah she's just kidding
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>>100517562
On that note this would mean that Homura doesn't care about the other girls and would kill them if they got in the way of any Madoka related plans correct?

It should be noted though that, their lives are preserved usually because Madoka cares about them and because by the end of Rebellion none of them were a threat, right?
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>>100517026
The part that's symbolic is that she's knocking it over while reaching out to Mami.

Here's a shitty picture. If she's not reaching out to Mami what is she doing?
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>>100517342
>pragmatic
We went over this. Homu a pragmatic.
http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/96354803/
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>>100517443
Literally nothing in the series supports your hypothesis. I reiterate, if Homura always knew Madoka's status/location, she would have been there to save her from Elly. Also, even if she knew Madoka was near a fountain, how would she know Kyubey was speaking with her?
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>>100517849
I think it's entirely possible to interpret that as intentionally knocking the teacup over. The scene cuts to Mami right after that so we don't see what she does with her hand next.
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>>100517849
Knocking it over was intentional. It was a rejection, not a reaching out for Mami.

You could argue that the fact Homura even bothered to make such a pointless symbolic gesture is a sign that she still feels a bond with Mami, though.
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>>100517890
But she DID show up to save her from Elly, she was just too late.

>Homura wouldn't give up on being Madoka's friend just because Madoka almost awoke in the hallway and said that order is more important that personal desires.
She may not have known for sure, but she was paranoid enough to make sure. Or perhaps she's capable of sensing where QB is too, and noticed that they were in the same place. Who knows.
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>>100518051
Wait who the hell am I quoting
That greentext was supposed to be
>even if she knew Madoka was near a fountain, how would she know Kyubey was speaking with her?
>>
>>100517852
Homu a pragmu
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>>100517443
So, according to you, Homura knew Madoka was about to make a contract, so she decided to risk Madoka's safety just to kill someone who is about to die anyway?
>>100517719
You're saying Homura values her reputation as an ice queen over the life of another person? This is more than a little ridiculous. Again, Homura never bloodies her hands even when it benefits her.
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>>100517977
Look at the picture again. The teacup is knocked over. Homura's hand keeps moving forward afterward. She also opens up her hand.

It's a pretty fucking weird way to knock over a teacup. A pretty fucking weird way.
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>>100517443
So, according to you, Homura knew Madoka was about to make a contract, so she decided to risk Madoka's safety just to kill someone who is about to die anyway?
>>100517719
You're saying Homura values her reputation as an ice queen over the life of another person? This is more than a little ridiculous. Again, Homura never bloodies her hands even when it benefits her.
>>100517741
If you can't refute a post, why quote it? You brought up an entirely irrelevant point.
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>>100518238
>why quote it?
To place emphasis on how ridiculous it sounds. There's no indication that she wasn't going to kill her at all. None what-so-ever. The claim that she wasn't going to kill Sayaka has zero basis and is ridiculous.
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>>100518176
>Homura knew Madoka was about to make a contract
Presumably she didn't know (or guess) until she was already over there dealing with Sayaka.

>You're saying Homura values her reputation as an ice queen over the life of another person?
Uh, no? I'm saying that she's not the type to bluff like that, she doesn't like losing face if she can help it. If she was only going to threaten Sayaka, she would have just done that and left, not make a show of being about to kill her and then backing out.
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>>100517852
There is no 'we'. I was the original anon who rejected that claim and I stand by it. If she was pragmatic, we would've had a Mind of Steel end long ago. Homura's detachment is a facade.



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