#l/a/nguage on irc.rizon.net
Previous thread: http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/100272644/#100272644
Why learn japanese when everything gets translated
> Why learn japanese when everything gets translated
it's useful for VNs
>Why learn japanese when everything gets translated
id sis negro serz
Even if that was true, which it most certainly isn't, most translations are somewhere between shit and mediocre.
>Why learn japanese when everything gets translated
This. Whenever I see an "onii"/"onee" or any honorific suffix I immediately close the window and add the translator to my shitlist.
Every time I try to go download the rikaichan dictionaries, the site wont load. What gives?
It won't for me either.
Is it just now or has this been a problem for a whille?
Protip: unless you want to come off as an anime nerd, use 私. You are a pig-disgusting illiterate gaijin, so you should not parade yourself around with 俺 or 僕.
It's actually a child at the top upside down, creating ?, and 肉 at the bottom fyi.
I wonder how it deformed so much that it appears to be 月 in 腹、肩、腕, etc.
You didn't get tired of repeating that in the last thread?
What a useless question.
How Can Mirrors Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real
There's no point in calling it a protip when everyone who has spent any time learning Japanese already knows it. Or do you think that because people here use 俺 they would also use it in a real, polite conversation?
>There's no point in calling it a protip when everyone who has spent any time learning Japanese already knows it.
Yeah, great idea, because you're a gaijin you can get away with anything right? Introduce yourself to the Emperor with 俺, it's correct because you're a foreigner manchild who watches too much anime.
There is a time and
place for everything. An educated decision based on the situation will ultimately make that desicion.
you're making fun of me, aren't you
I think he's shitposting. I like it when we shitpost things we all enjoy.
Not our fault you're too beta to use 俺.
Unless I'm missing something, wasn't that the guy who was defending the use of 僕?
hey guys I'm working on this wallpaper can you tell me if there is anything incorrect with the sentence?
>took 3 semesters of jap in college in fall 2006, spring and fall 2007.
>can still read/write hira/kata-kana's
>can still recognize ~200 kanji and its on/kun-readings... writing it down properly is out of the question since i didn't study correct stroke orders
>vocab level is kinda basic... but I sure picked up more from watching anime and some dorama's
>grammar is kinda so-so
>can still pronounce all jap syllables fluently and properly (so simple, it's like as if speak monotone Spanish)
I think I'm in serious need of brush-up.
Where should I go from here... material wise? What's the BEST textbook I can download in 2014?
I hear tools for learning jap just got even better now that there are smartphones and tablets to make learning feel like playing a game (gamification?)
(pic related... the last textbook I used when I took jap class back in '07)
You don't need textbooks anymore, just go play raw nukige and look up kanji you don't know.
>people think that using 俺 will somehow make them manly and change the fact that their a gangly pimple faced nerd
私 is the only mature choice.
What's the cut off age for 僕
If you're a girl, never
Also, I want grammar reinforcement... and back then the textbook I used above in 2006 was ok in explanation.
what's the better book when it comes to grammar now we're in year 2014?
How about 「自分」
I just like using 2 syllables
Just use 拙者. It's what I use.
Why, things that don't have a proper english translation id rather leave untranslated.
Then focus on studying rather than translating and let someone who can actually translate the work translate it.
thanks for the grub
Which nukige are you guys playing playing?
I honestly fail to see how you could learn Moon Runes without doing so.
Just started http://vndb.org/v1160 recently. The amount of lolige that learning moon has given me is great.
whats' the best kanji-lookup/dic right on on smarthphone or tablet?
There is no cut of age for 僕, people who think there is obviously think Japanese people talk just like they do in anime. 僕 is not "girly" or "unmanly", I've heard plenty of 60-70 year old men use it in all kinds of formal and informal situations.
に usage confuses me sometimes.
How am I supposed to know if this means "I talked to the young man 6 times" or "the young man talked to me 6 times"? The context shows both people talking.
Well, you can look at the verb and see if it's passive on not. In this case, it is written wrong but it's probably supposed to be passive.
I started a conversation with the young man 6 times.
The young man started a conversation with me 6 times.
Also, where did you get this sentence from? Not only is the spelling of verb totally fucked up, it would make more sense if it was the past tense. かけた or かけられた.
"In general, when a passive sentence is used, it is about the person / thing which is affected by the event, and when what is affected is human, the sentence takes the viewpoint of the person rather than the agent of the event."
What a shitty explanation, sounds like you're trying to be a fucking spy or something. Watch out everyone, it's 007.
I'm having trouble reading this. Lend me a hand, fair Anon.
I think it's the Nip name for the Maiden in Black from Demons' Souls. I could be wrong. I'm pulling it from a doujinshi.
Or, if you haven't yet visited the fjords. . .
I put an extra れ in there by mistake and left out the て, but the rest looks okay.
That would mean the young man talked to me then right? The translation says that "I talked to the young man".
I'm a native english speaker and something about that explanation took four readthroughs. If it were just a little more wordy and had some unrecognizable vocab, it could be every japanese explanation of anything ever.
Holy shit, I was stuck on that same line for quite a while.
And then they didn't even pick up her eraser!
Ergo, concordantly. Vis a vis.
i took it from "a dictionary of basic japanese grammar", hence the quotation marks
yes, but i'm not really sure. i'm still struggling with grammar myself
I thought it sounded like it was written by japs.
If this is Watamote, it's "I was talked to by the boy six times in middle school." It's one of the cases where passive voice actually translates normally.
>The translation says that "I talked to the young man".
Remember that most translations are literal. Sometimes changing a sentence from active to passive during translation makes it sound more natural. Localization. Yeah.
man you guys had this thread just in time
based on some recommendation from a previous thread, I have been practicing my kana and now have memorized hiragana enough to sound out most words. I tried my hand at doing a rough translation of a page of manga, and it took me an hour to get through one page.
A lot of that time was trying to come up with a proper English sentence that conveyed the same idea as the Japanese text though. I think it probably took me about a half hour to get through the one page
How long does translating a page usually take the average scanlator? Do they burn through it, or are they less skilled?
Are NOT literal, I meant to say.
> I think it probably took me about a half hour to get through the one page
I mean, I think it took about half an hour to just read the page
You can't just change that for "localization" can you? The fact that she was "talked to by X" and didn't "talk to X" is a direct representation of how she acts as a character with her lack of initiative.
Why would the translator do that?
I could see it going either way. Those panels are her narration, in which she's trying to convince herself how she actually is popular, and will soon be filled with dicks.
You can change what whatever the fuck you want. There are no rules you have to follow, no translation police who are going to come after you if you write something they don't like except the /a/utists here, of course
I see, it was かけらている. Yeah, that works as well I guess, it's not describing the event but rather treats it as an experience or a property.
What is the difference between "I talked to the man" and "The man talked to me" though? If you say "The man talked to me" it sounds like he said something to you, but you never said anything back, while "I talked to the man" can either mean you said something to him, or you had a conversation. 声をかける means "to start up a conversation", and the difference between passive and not passive is who actually said something first. I think "I talked to the young man" works fine as a translation, but it's obviously going to confuse you if you try to learn grammar through it.
Let me guess, that's Sticky White Stuff on her feet.
The "police" is being wrong.
Yep. There's an English translation up too. I just want the literal Nip translation.
樣 is AdobeFlashWebsite according to google translate. Somehow I think they missed the mark.
Fire and woman are easy to see, though.
Why are you trying to translate pages when you only just learned kana?
A scanlator doesn't need an hour for a page because he knows the words he's reading and how the sentences work.
Learn a bit of grammar and vocabulary first.
If you've just learned kana, you're way ahead of the average manga scanlator or /jp/ VN player in terms of skill, but still nowhere in the grand scheme.
The more you know, the less you rely on translating it into something that makes sense in english unless you're getting paid, and even then, it becomes almost instant for most sentences. It's idioms, cultural references, and dense slang that take up most of your time, where it could take you an hour to figure out a single sentence and have no problem with the rest of the comic.
If you understand it, don't bother trying to render it in english; and if you don't, making a really dry, wordy literal translation that reads like crap and barely makes sense unless you know japanese grammar is fine. Eventually, you'll have read enough that you don't need to render it in english to understand it; it actually becomes counterproductive.
Just because you're used to dealing with shit translations from people who have so little understanding of Japanese that they need to hide behind a wall of "literalism" to try to defend their poor work doesn't mean that someone who actually knows what they're doing is wrong.
There are plenty of times in Japanese where grammatical forms are used for pragmatic purposes, and when those same pragmatics simply don't apply in the target language, it would be asinine to use an equivalent grammatical form.
In this case, it's a time where passive voice is actually renderable and carries the same nuance in english. Even if you remove the passive voice "I talked to him" and "He talked to me" are two very fucking different sentences that any translator who is gives a single fuck about english prose would retain the nuance of.
Sadly, a lot of people who learn japanese have autism and can't into nuance and it shows in their translations.
"Boku wa sugoi desu"
Im just piecing together what little knowledge i have about the japanese language, im not sure if the "desu" is supposed to be there.
Its supposed to translate to (I am awsome)
Does this sentence make sense to anyone?
What kind of tone/formality level/pronouns do nips use on imageboards?
Pick up a grammar book. Japanese the Manga Way is a good one.
I'm a newb, so take this with a grain of salt. Desu isn't necessary for adjectival type sentences, but can be used to make them more polite. It's only mandatory for noun type sentences. Grammatically, anything before wa is treated as a separate fragment, and not part of the sentence.
Really, read some books.
See >>100352242 to see why you're wrong.
I went to 2ch to find answers for you.
I return to you bewildered. It's all talks about earthquakes, legislature and Nip ASCII art. Was there a recent earthquake or something?
Why doesn't Japanese have spaces?
How do you tell words apart?
>Was there a recent earthquake or something?
Like every day?
Rigid word structure, line breaks and kanji. Mostly kanji.
>refer to the post who just replied to you 20 minutes before me
What the fuck does ")y" mean? カッコいい? Parentheses are called 括弧", innit?
No. Only one of those is replying to me which is your post.
The second post is replying to you by reiterating what I said and going into detail as to why you're wrong.
Help, I'm trapped in 2ch.
They're really fucking excited about this product. I'm pretty sure they're now talking about covering an entire house in it. I guess so they can just shit everywhere?
but dinosaurs are long dead.
Is that like a turbo snuggy?
Read Genki for grammar.
Japan did always have a cutting edge in technology.
Someone just said, "It's only clothes, ありがとうございました"
I think I found sarcasm. I thought it didn't exist there.
Of course they have sarcasm. They have some brutal sarcasm. In fact, they're one of the few internet posters that get english sarcasm. I was reading youtube comments one time and it was all "USA USA NUMBER ONE NUMBER ONE" and eurofags where getting buttmad while japan was all "米国一番”
です(desu) basically means "it is"
a direct translation of "boku wa sugoi desu" would be "I amazing am"
わ(wa) is the topic particle, and indicates the topic of the sentence, which in this case, is whoever spoke that sentence (you).
You may want to check out namsensei on youtube, I wouldn't rely on him for anything further than the kana, but I found him useful just as a starting point into japanese.
Other than that, whatever this guy said
And into the trash it goes. You were wrong before that and it only got worse afterwords.
Can I use 僕 in every situation instead of 私?
Using 私 is too gaijinkusai for me.
guy who takes a half hour to read a page here
boku no, not boku wa
You only use <subject> wa in cases like watashi wa and you use the character 'ha'（私は）
Use 僕 but make sure you sound super cool like Kenshiro.
It'll get you loads of super cute nippon girls.
You mean "（ｒｙ"? It's short for りゃく and means something like "etc.", I think.
Also wrong. Don't get scholarly until you can read japanese faster than english.
can you please tell me what is wrong
Isn't abbreviating three glyphs with three glyphs kinda pointless?
no I am actually ignorant not trolling
but I'm a girl
girls using boku is super hot
nevermind, found it on Google
thanks for pointing out my stupidity
内 is cuter
は denotes a topic. An actual literal translation would be, "As for me, (it) is sugoi." which, depending on what was said before it, could be "I'm awesome" or "I (think) (something) is awesome”.
Then nevermind the above. Check out the DoBJG in the guide for a better explanation, imabi for a very dense one, and Jay Rubin's book for an interesting take on は and が
So the proper way to do it would be
”Boku wa sugoi"
thank you very much
My sugoi. OH, MY すごい!
mfw I never used "hurr I'm a girl hurr" on 4chan. But now is the only time it would actually matter, but I just can't. Fuck this shit, I'm growing a penis...
Get them off Mozilla's main addon site instead.
two words, topical steroid
Just remember to be super cool like Kenshiro, this applies to both sexes.
わたくし is best
t: ojou-sama fetish
use polite form more and say watashi. you have it easier if anything. if guys are too formal it's lame and makes you a homosexual.
the difference in language between genders in Japanese has been entirely blown out of proportion in nearly everything i've ever read honestly so you could just not worry about it. only critical error would be using the wrong self reference like 'ore' or 'boku'.
Still cant access it.
hahaha get a load of this fucking idiot oh god
'omg he said 俺 that is so rude omg this person is clearly deranged and has broken sacred Japanese law' - said nobody ever
my jgf uses atashi all the time and she isn't that girly
just keep using it until you get over it
Is she cute?
I just got back from a two week trip to japan last week. Osaka is a really cool place :3
Well that's nice, good on ya'.
Sorry for my ignorance and I know it's anime but in Pokemon Satoshi uses 俺. How rude can it be if a child in a children's show uses it?
is she osakan?
does she say nandeyanen and ikemahen?
It's not rude, it's just very informal. Don't say it to your boss or to the emperor but feel free to say it to your friends or on imageboards. There is a time and a place for everything.
Except only little kids and construction workers use 俺 in Japan, and 'boku' are for males who want to eternally be considered as young 'kouhai' just in case they can't work properly.
But is 僕 formal or not?
She isn't being true with you. Fear the day the mask falls.
I want an osakan girlfriend just to hear her saying shit like アナルはあかん
Only faggots use 僕.
Real men use 俺 and occasionally 私
Did that guy from yesterday send the letter to his friend yet?
To a certain extent, it is. Feel free to use it with your friends and such, but it's not exactly a "kiddy" pronoun. I know it's not a good reference, but there are quite a few anime characters who use boku and they aren't like 5 or 6 years old. And I fucking doubt anyone with their right mind would ever make a character who literally wants to pass of an atmosphere of a manchild.
What's the difference (if any) between あまり and とても?
How do you know so much about what faggots use? Have you been stalking doujin artists on twitter like I have? If anything, 俺 is hypermasculine overcompensation. Sure, the ones that look like this use 僕, but there's much more than pronoun use that makes you sound like a fag.
Arguably, 僕 makes you sound more self-assured than all the artists that use 俺, but clearly have an obsession with being the little boy.
Which spelling is correct?
yes, all the time
and the like
Try googling it.
please just stop posting
あまり is primarily used only in the negative. とても is mostly used for superlatives. In other words, they're quite different words with different usages, and the best thing to do would be to look at example sentences rather than arbitrarily asking how they're different.
Fuck that, I did my research at the massive faggot convention that is けもケット. When you've heard a thousand lispy ore's in the IRL, you can have an opinion. What japs think a fag sounds like and what they actually sound like is just as wrong as it is over here. As you can see, I'm highly qualified in this field.
あたい a best
Now I know why japs eat that quote up. Pic related when I flipped the card and heard the clip.
歳納 京子 is the most correct, though, all of them are technically correct.
Please stop thinking you can learn how to use Japanese first person pronouns by watching anime. 僕 is only for fags? Only kids and construction workers say 俺, and it's hypermasculine overcompensation? Saying 私 makes you sound like a girl? No, no and no. Guys use all first person pronouns in their daily lives, they switch depending on the situation. Real life is not like anime, one does not choose one and then never say anything else. Yes, some people are more prone to using one or another, but this discussion is seriously fucking retarded.
>Real life is not like anime
You are the one who needs to realize this most. The only reason you want to parade yourself around with 俺 is because your favorite annimay character used it. You wouldn't have such a stubborn insistence and affinity for these pronouns if you weren't a dumb anime-watching gaijin.
Try watching some Japanese media besides anime and you will see that he is right and you are retarded. Hell, watch fucking GnT or literally anything where males alternate back and forth from speaking with their equals and their superiors and you will notice that they switch pronouns and verb forms every other fucking sentence.
What can I say? I was bored and the anthropologist in me just had to see what was going on. And who doesn't like getting hugs from もふもふキャラ? Not to mention I got to see what artists actually look like and was pleasantly surprised.
>would bang ケン様/10
So maybe the site I'm using wasn't clear on this. But from what I've come to understand is that 私 is unisex and polite. 僕 is masculine and informal and あたし is its feminine equivalent. Am I misapprehending?
>Try watching Seinfeld and you'll see how real Americans communicate with each other every day!
How can you be this stupid? How can you think that your position is anything but fantasy? You live on the fucking internet you autist, you have no ground to stand on in real life so you insist on bringing up stupid entertainment TV shows to justify your distorted world views. Fuck off you retarded faggot.
Some yakuza bosses use あたし because who the fuck is going to say anything about it. And 私 is unisex unless you're in a casual setting, where you sound stiff.
>unless you're in a casual setting
Which you will probably not be most of the time.
Is anyone else not able to reach this site?
I get a connection time out.
Ｃａｎ ａｎｙｏｎｅ ｏｆ ｙｏｕ ｆｕｃｃｂｏｉｓ ｅｘｐｌａｉｎ ｗｈａｔ 乱れる ｍｅａｎｓ ｉｎ ｔｈｉｓ ｓｅｎｔｅｎｃｅ？ Ｉ ｄｏｎ’ｔ ｓｅｅ ｔｈｅ ｄｅｆｉｎｉｔｉｏｎ ａｐｐｌｉｅｓ．
Ｔｈａｎｋｓ ａ ｂｕｎｃｈ．Ｔｅｌｌ ｙｏｕｒ ｍｏｍ Ｉ ｓａｉｄ ｈｉ．
Yeah, that site had a lot of trouble recently. It'll probably be up again in a few days.
Ｃａｎ ａｎｙｏｎｅ ｏｆ ｙｏｕ ｆｕｃｃｂｏｉｓ ｅｘｐｌａｉｎ ｗｈａｔ 乱れる ｍｅａｎｓ ｉｎ ｔｈｉｓ ｓｅｎｔｅｎｃｅ？ Ｉ ｄｏｎ’ｔ ｓｅｅ ｈｏｗ ｔｈｅ ｄｅｆｉｎｉｔｉｏｎ ａｐｐｌｉｅｓ．
Ｔｈａｎｋｓ ａ ｂｕｎｃｈ．Ｔｅｌｌ ｙｏｕｒ ｍｏｍ Ｉ ｓａｉｄ ｈｉ．
>yakuza bosses use あたし
I would call him a fag if I heard he saying it.
You are so goddamn retarded it's unbelievable, just fuck off and kill yourself already you dumb nigger.
I'm not him, but you have no argument. Stop embarrassing yourself, and contain your rage.
Enjoy having your legs broken and your entire family killed.
I just refuted his argument. Television shows are not real life; you can't argue that using 俺 with the Emperor is normal just because you saw it in one of your doramas.
Unless you're living there, most interaction consists of silently nodding to old people you can't understand, drinking in bars, and wearing sunglasses inside while you buy porn. These are all casual settings.
Oh thank god, I was getting worried that the autism was declining in the last few threads but it's clearly still as strong as ever.
Not him, but white trash.
Even the Yakuza are generally nogunz. I'd just blast him with my pipe shotgun.
>using 俺 with the Emperor
He never implied that. He just said they changed pronouns based on who they were talking to.
You also can't not argue that something is not realistic because you saw it in a drama so your argument doesn't exist like I said, however the strong correlation exists. If the setting is normal then the speech is normal.
>you can't argue that using 俺 with the Emperor is normal just because you saw it in one of your doramas.
That's not what I'm arguing at all you dumb nigger. Holy fuck, learn to read. There is a time and a place for everything and while you certainly wouldn't use 俺 with the emperor it is perfectly fine to use it with your friends/equals/on imageboards.
Right; it does not show anything either way, i.e. I refuted his argument.
No you didn't. You made a non-argument with something that was already known.
>The only reason you want to parade yourself around with 俺
Did you even read what I wrote?
>You wouldn't have such a stubborn insistence and affinity for these pronouns if you weren't a dumb anime-watching gaijin.
The projection levels are off the chart.
I've got a few Japanese friends that tell me there's nothing wrong with 俺 in casual settings. I don't really remember anyone around here saying otherwise but shrug.
What if I'm too american to bend to their retarded idea of status? You're a gangly outsider no matter what you do, so you might as well do what you want and gaijin smash the fuck out of their culture.
I just want to point out that the whole faggotry started with this comment.
Actually, in this particular thread, it started in response to this >>100336349 but the previous thread also had a similar conversation.
What kind of conjugation is 過ごし?
Sorry but the faggotry started way up here with this guy who starts the exact same argument in every fucking thread.
bottom of the page
Okay, that makes sense. I've seen them used in sentences like these:
Did you ever notice how many ESL learners swear and curse in English a lot more than native speakers? Because that's how people talk in Hollywood movies and on TV, it is an exaggerated form of speech for dramatic/comedic/etc effect, similar to how animu characters talk. You wouldn't talk like Samuel L Jackson in front of the president any more than you would use 俺 in front of the emperor, but that doesn't mean that you should NEVER swear in English or use 俺 in Japanese. Like I said, there is a time and a place.
I've done a moderate degree of ESL teaching and have not noticed that, maybe they're smart enough to keep it out of classes if true.
I've noticed it quite a bit on places like /int/ but I have to admit that I don't have any formal experience with it.
I think everyone curses more on fucking 4chan anyway though.
I assume you mean:
>Formal speeches, narration, and written publications employ the verb stem instead of the te-form to describe sequential actions.
And the accompanying example:
That doesn't explain what the し is. It says "verb stem instead of te-form", but し comes after 利用 which isn't a verb. Is this some weird conjugation of 利用する？Is し supposed to be the "verb stem conjugation" of the implied する in that example? That's why I never used Tae Corea Guide 2 Kimchi after reading the first chapter and instead used JtMW and DoJG.
He's fucking shit at explaining things.
If it implicitly says "Formal speeches, narration, and written publications employ the verb stem instead of the te-form to describe sequential actions." with no other explanation; then outside of that weird example why would し be used in the first place? 食べ? 泳ぎ? These stems don't have し。
過ごし is the i-stem of 過ごす
利用し is the i-stem of 利用する
I used Tae Kim in the beginning as an introduction, not too bad considering the alternatives
It is indeed the "masu stem" or "i-stem" form of 利用する。That form is often referred to as the "stem". 食べ and 泳ぎ are indeed the stem forms for those verbs. Nobody said it's anything special about し, that's merely there because it is the stem form of する. It's all pretty clear if you read it carefully/in proper sequence, and I'm not just saying that to patronize you.
I've been trying to learn for about a month now, so I'll just try to write some sentences.
I think I got these few right, but I don't actually know how to check.
Can you please point out any mistakes that I made? (non kanji related ones, I only know about 20)
あなたわすきアニメか すごい！ 私も！
I guess the irregular form of する being し and the masu stem of conjugating to 過ごし threw me off. Thanks nerds.
If you don't like the most basic explanation, you can go flip through the DOJG for hours or get lost on imabi finding one you really won't understand.
To put it simply, books and shit use the masu stem of a verb to save space and be more formal. There's an implied て at the end.
Dear god, you have to already know what they're talking about to understand any of it. Excellent resource, but the mix of terminology used and the way it's written is fucking disgusting. Unnecessarily obfuscated explanations and random japanese linguistic terms mixed with english ones can go eat a dick.
What should I use to refer to myself?
拙者 or それがし?
Is 拙者 okay to use in formal situations?
Is it correct to say "私は日本語が少しだけ話せます" or do I have to use "私は日本語があまり話せません"?
The わ in the first sentence should be a は。
The second sentence should have a は between namae and anon. Right now, it means "my name Anon."
The last second to last sentence is kinda messed up. "あなたのすきなアニメはすごいと思う。" may be what you were aiming for. It means "I think your favorite anime is amazing. You wrote "you are favorite anime is amazing," and mis-used か.
You also need punctuation at the end of sentences.
Either is fine.
I see, thanks.
>not just omitting all of your particles
Thanks for the help, I was actually trying to write "You like anime? Amazing! Me too!" in the last one.
I guess it'll be several years before I actually have any idea what I'm doing.
I would go with the second.
The first one is more of "I can speak a bit of Japanese," than "I can only speak a bit of Japanese."
Should be more like this:
(I can speak only a little Japanese.)
And sounds better like this:
(I can only speak a little Japanese. Enunciates that you only know only a small amount)
What's a good way of learning how to say sentences properly after you have learned the words?
That raises another question; how do I know when to use を and が? Or is only one of them correct? I remember hearing both being used.
I think が is more used, "英語が少ししか話せません" has more google results than "英語を少ししか話せません"
Why can it be either が or を? Subject and object are polar opposites to me.
I think it depends on what you want to say really. You can be saying either
>I know only a bit of japanese, but I'm able to hold a conversation
>I know only a little bit of japanese, so please go easy on me
が is more common with potential verbs. Some textbooks even outright say を is wrong, but that's not really true, it's just used in specific situations.
Says the cartoon boy locked in his room on the computer thousands of miles away.
>implying you've ever been to Japan
When can を be used with potential verbs? I'm pretty sure it can't be used in these sentences at least. If anything, some of these sentences should take は, not が or を.
Generally, you're describing yourself and you'd use が. For characteristics (like 足が綺麗 or something) が is more common.
を is used when it's one combined verb-noun phrase as a full action, I guess. Like 車を借りられます. Really, it's most common when ~ことができる is common. In that case, が is not used for the potential. For example, you don't say 日本語が話すことができる.
>you don't say 日本語が話すことができる.
That's true of course, but I meant the potential form of verbs, not just potential in general. My bad.
Yeah, you're right. This is also possible. However, you can always use が as well in these instances, no? It's sort of like the ～たい, where some people use を instead が just because... they can, I guess.
>Start using the Method of Loci
>Effortlessly memorizing 100 kanji a day with almost perfection retention
I feel I like I've unlocked the full potential of the human brain.
Even the most abstract kanji are easy to memorize now. Every single kanji is connected in my imagination to an object in my house.
Here we go again
>100 kanji a day
Holy shit. Gonna have to check that out.
yeah man ;)
Word to the mother :^)
What's wrong with it?
Yeah man, if you can learn 100 kanji a day then that means you can master 2k in just 20 days! :D
If some faggot can remember the sequence of a shuffled deck of cards in 21 seconds why can't he learn 100 kanji in a day.
Think of how much information a deck of cards has compared to 52 kanji. It's like asking why the same faggot can't memorize 52 books in a day.
Seriously. And do you ever get tired of reading these lame ass geeky cartoon watching white boys bullshit and them constantly being wrong about everything?
I didn't know what you were talking about, so I searched for it on google.
Seems pretty reasonable, and compatible with heisig's mnemonics, so I guess I'll check it out.
It's dependent on how good your visual memory is. Those memory palace techniques are used by all of the best memorizers, but it doesn't work for everyone. If your visual memory is shit then using that technique won't help you very much.
>The 2006 World Memory Champion, Clemens Mayer from Germany, used a 300-point-long journey through his house for his world record in "number half marathon", memorising 1040 random digits in a half hour. Gary Shang has used the method of loci to memorise pi to over 65,536 digits.
So it works, but it won't work for everyone.
And think about how much time has a day compared to 21 seconds.
Are there any kanji you guys hate with a passion?
In terms of looks/writing.
In short: people with better visual memory can memorize kanji more easily.
So why haven't you distilled the language it its most basic formed and learned it in 2-3 days yet?
*to its most basic form
What's a good site to ask for help when you don't understand something/ can't translate something?
You can use Google Translate as long as you can make out the often fucked up translations. It works fine if you want to translate individual words (most of the time).
Pretty much. I suspect that underlyingly there are different constructions which are something like "can do thing" versus "thing is doable". Even in English, in the first of these "thing" is an object but a subject in the latter. But in Japanese the differences between two such constructions comes down to just the case marking since the relevant bits are homophonous and due to how word order and construction goes, which means that in essence you just get が/を optionality when talking about potential despite some kind of underlying differences. There are probably some tests someone could think up to tease out whether that's actually true but I dunno.
what's the meaning of "bla bla bla と話題に"?
I usually do that but sometimes you come across to weird phrases that you can't figure out, and kinda need some help.
>Think of how much information a deck of cards has compared to 52 kanji.
It would actually be harder to memorize the cards than the kanji though.
Imagine if someone generated a list of 50 completely random numbers ranging from any where between 1 and 1,000. It would be harder to memorize that than it would be to memorize 50 or even 100 kanji simply because kanji gives you more information to work with.
The human brain is best at memorizing things when it can form connections between the thing that you're trying to memorize and something that you already know very well. Random strings of numbers give you very little information that you can use to form connections in your mind and so it's extremely difficult to memorize long sequences of numbers, but kanji/vocab/chapters of books/pretty much anything other than numbers all come with a lot of information that can be used to easily form connections within your mind and memorize.
The brain isn't like a computer hard drive that has some kind of maximum amount of data that it can store. For example, imagine a room that you know really well and can instantly see it in your mind. Just that memory alone contains billions of bits of data, everything from the position of a chair, the location of the electrical outlets on the wall, to the books on the shelves, but you have no problem remembering that even though it's such an enormous amount of data and that's because your brain remembers that room and everything in it as a single memory rather than billions of unrelated memories.
"Bla bla bla" means "bla bla bla". Don't know about the rest though.
It's a great method for memorizing order in sequences, but what good does it do for kanji?
Pain in the ass to write nicely.
Anything with the 廴 radical. I can't for the life of me write that shit properly.
What is a good, fairly comprehensive anki vocab cardset if I am looking to read doujis and basic manga?
Do you have Parkinson's?
the core decks
Learn from the big book of writing pretty.
Actually I do.
It's the same method, but it's easier with kanji because you don't have to mentally walk through your memory palace from start to finish since you're not trying to memorize a sequence. You just do the same practice of associating the information with objects inside of your memory palace. Any kanji can be associated with any object.
For example, when I was trying to remember the radicals I used my treadmill for 支 by associating the appearance of 支 with the appearance of the treadmill and then imagining that my treadmill was covered in branches. I did that one weeks ago and I've never forgotten it. The second I see 支 my mind immediately thinks, "Treadmill. Branches. Branch radical." and it works the same for memorizing anything else.
the bottom row reminds me of the Nazca lines.
the japs must be aliens
The Chinese you mean
I've started practicing kana, but even after I know all this I won't know what words mean, how do I learn vocabulary?
Japs are long lost jewish tribes
Is there an award for dumbest question asked or something? Read the fucking guide.
Yes, you're right. the Chinese are clearly the offspring of Aliens mating with the human population. It all makes sense now.
Give it up anonymous, Japanese is just not for you
why is /a/ so mean ;_;
Because you're asking stupid unnecessary questions and not contributing anything to the thread.
Use your phone
Think of how you aren't a world record holder in anything
aniki pls tell me more
You've got to push through the pain, son. The best teachers are the ones that make you cry.
話題 (wadai) means a conversational topic.
which is correct?
Why not both?
both. if you're writing it should look like the left.
>Almost all of the grammar text books use way too much romaji
Why do they do this? Everything is much harder to read when it's written in romaji. Reading the romaji version of any word using ふ makes my head hurt.
pandering to casuals
I may be not, but the guy above already mentioned that he did it, what are you still bitching about?
I didn't argue my point at all. I simply refuted his.
Why? I write mine like the right. Why is that wrong? Is it a personal preference or will people actually tell you that's wrong?
Is the Load Balancer plug-in for anki broken?
Every time I hit "One day" for a card, I see it two days from now. It seems like it just multiplied the wait time for everything by two.
It's about as retarded as writing "a" the way it looks in this computer font
Handwritten kana look different than computerized kana. If you follow proper stroke order it should look like the left.
Can't figure out what does this mean, help.
I remember earlier seeing someone post a picture containing Kanji from different grades and how well he memorized them. It was be either like green or red depending on how he did on the test. I think it had something to do with anki? Can anyone give me some information on what this was?
>The steel used is known as Tamahagane (玉鋼:たまはがね?), or "jewel steel" (tama - ball or jewel, hagane - steel). Tamahagane is produced from iron sand, a source of iron ore, and mainly used to make Samurai swords, such as the katana, and some tools.
>This is the "steel" that they were using to make swords in Japan
Christ, no wonder those things were so fucking flimsy and had to be folded a million times. It's not much more than lumps of clay with traces amounts of steel.
Kanji Grid plug-in.
Yeah, they had bad RNG on their spawn location.
It does not look as cool though.
>no wonder they made the best and most famous blades in history
This is it, right? Just double checking.
Japanese history is a fundamental part of studying Japanese.
If you don't learn about Japan's history and culture then how will you understand the aspects of their language that are deeply tied into their culture and have no English equivalents?
How many kanji do you know?
Know your place, fuckers.
I just wanna fap to untranslated VNs dude.
Yeah, that's the one. You can sort the grid by JLPT grade in the settings.
I learned 二 today, I'll be able to finish 三 by tomorrow.
all this effort just to fap
damn that's impressive
I already know about 11390 kanji
Not him, but if I was interested in using a language for something productive(Read: not porn), I wouldn't have chosen Japanese.
Reminds me of a anon who mused about fapping/sex being a great motivator. wish i took a screenshot.
>believing everything you read on the internet
Also you might want to work on your English first before trying to learn Japanese.
I thought we were all learning japanese because we were weeaboo faggots?
Just because you can't do it it doesn't mean it's not possible.
Why is everyone on those Koohii forums so pathetic?
They learn slower than someone with down syndrome.
>more than most japanese people
Not me, 俺は体を作りる人です。俺はかっこいいです。;_;
I already knew Spanish and Arabic. Naturally Japanese is the next most relevant language
Mandarin is often considered easier and is considerably more relevant.
How many kanji a day is normally recommended? I try to do around 6-10 or so a day, but some days I got confused and I have to review past ones. Does it get easier? It seems like I am remember a lot less than most other people
>wanting to associate with disgusting soulless commie chinks and peak their ugly mess of a language
because they turned heisig into a crutch and not a foundation to base further learning off of.
but the chinese have no games. or fun in general.
Mandarin is a disgusting language
Yeah, I agree that Japanese is both more interesting and more enjoyable. But I have no delusions about the usefulness of the language.
>Mandarin is often considered easier
The American government thinks so.
You're /supposed/ to review them.
What I mean, though, is I have to pretty much stop learning any new ones every now and then, because if I don't I start getting confused. Is this normal? To stop learning new ones for a day or two and just focus on review? I review everyday, even while learning new ones, though.
I'm feeling grateful on a daily basis that I am not an American
I guess that depends on how you define useful. I never use the Spanish I learned in high school despite the fact that millions of people in my country speak it. I just never have any contact with any of them, so to me it is useless. Japanese, on the other hand, I use every single day online.
Nah, I do that too. Forcing new material when you have trouble remembering the old stuff won't do you any good. Just don't get too comfortable.
>and is considerably more relevant
To who? That whole "learn mandarin and you can get any job in China" thing is just a myth that gets circulated in western countries.
Chinese companies prefer to have a native speaking Chinese employee that speaks English and the demand for people that know Mandarin within English companies is extremely small.
For the average person, Japanese is far easier to make money with because there's a huge consumer demand for translations of Japanese products and no one gives a shit about having translations of Chinese products because they produce no notable entertainment.
The amount of freelancing that you can do with Japanese is massive. You can milk ridiculous amounts of money from otaku by translating all of the niche VNs and other products that translation groups don't bother with.
that textbook is pretty 可愛い
America is the shittiest country in the world so that's understandable.
Alright, thank you. It seems like everyone is able to just keep going everyday learning new kanji nonstop. Glad to know that's not the case and I'm not just an idiot.
>milk ridiculous amounts of money from otaku
Do you really think this is true? There's a massive over-saturation of JLPTN4 professional translators on the internet already and most people aren't willing to pay for anything, that's why they pirate everything.
Professional translation jobs don't pay much and mostly consist of translating shit like instruction manuals.
If I start learning german do you reckon it'll affect my japanese progress?
Yeah, sometimes it's just too much. I mostly stop doing new ones when I start getting way too many reviews. I do 30 new a day, though, so with your numbers I would keep on doing new cards as much as possible. Even if you feel like you don't remember a lot of them, in a few days you will find them pretty easy. That's the power of Anki.
Should I learn all the Hiragana first? Or should I learn the Katakana while I learn the Hiragana?
I've only done reviews the past three days because of exams.
The good part is that my reviews have dropped to a comfortable 250 a day thanks to this.
I passively learned about 1,000 German words in a background anki deck. Didn't affect my progress much. It's probably better to go lighter on the German and to separate it from your Japanese studying.
After learning these words, I realized that 1) I don't know German grammar at all and have no desire to learn it and 2) words like "Wirtschaftswissenschaften" are useless
It depends on your ability to juggle them, I guess. It's certainly possible to handle both, but it's hard enough to handle learning one language.
I took German in high school, and I hardly remember any of it because I didn't put the work in during or after the classes. I can't imagine trying to do that again with Japanese on the side.
>that's why they pirate everything.
You can't pirate something that doesn't exist. It requires a degree of social networking since you have to personally get in touch with otaku, learn about the games that they want that no one is translating (it's pretty huge amount, look at those VN translation update threads on /jp/. Some of those translations have been stalled at 30% for years now and that's only a fraction of the VNs that Japan is producing) and then you translate it for them in exchange for an extremely gouged price.
Otaku are willing to pay for it if you talk to them one on one and offer to quickly translate the things that they want the most. Most of them have more money than they know what to do with, live with their parents so they have no expenses, and get SSI payments from the government.
If your social networking skills are too shitty to do that then there's always freelancer sites like Gengo where you can make well above minimum wage by translating instruction manuals.
Hiragana. then katakana. yes you need both.
Don't need to know them religiously since you'll be reinforcing your memory as time goes on.
also consider reading the OP. it'll tell you the same shit we will.
Are you speaking from experience or purely theoretically?
namasensei or tae kim for katakana?
I did them both at the same time but it's just personal preference
>This homeless guy I found or god himself
There's always a mark in the crowd. If only you knew the amount of manga and vn's that will never see the light of day.
I'm not saying it's not possible. It just seems unsustainable and implausible. I'd be happy if I was wrong.
Yeah, I used realkana and learned both hiragana and katana is 3 days. And I was doing it at a pretty leisurely pace.
Experience with German translations.
Several months ago I was paid $700 by someone on /vg/ to personally translate most of Unteralterbach, a relatively obscure German loli VN that Krautchan made. Krautchan isn't translating it, so as far as I know, this guy is the only person who has an English translation of the game and he was willing to pay an absurd amount of money for me to do that.
I'm still learning Japanese so I can't do this with Japanese VNs yet, but Germany produces barely any decent entertainment and I was still able to make money off horny otaku with too much money. Doing the same with Japanese will be a walk in the park, I already know dozens of otaku that are frothing at the mouths for translations.
Of course it's not sustainable, but it is beer money for doing basically nothing.
Krautchan made a VN? I thought that place was just the same three people spam posting.
Yeah, it's pretty good too. I was surprised.
i got curious about the meaning so i looked up and found this:
"[V ni Vpot nai] means that someone cannot do something even though he/she wants to or is trying to."
source is "a dictionary of advanced japanese grammar", pg. 408
how well do I need to know kana?
I was doing the first set here あ、い、え、う、お
and I got these results, when should I move on and how fast should I be learning
this is my second day of trying to learn btw
If you can get like 60-80% correct on all the kana then it's time to move on to reading a grammar guide/(vocab+kanji). Every other aspect of studying will reinforce kana, don't let kana bottleneck your progress.
Considering how many nice anons are out there, I'm thinking of putting a translation site in the future, where people can donate.
I'm not really planning to make it a business, but paypal money would be useful to buy merchandise or stuff I already pay for with my own job.
Everything is in kana. You need to know it well enough to not make misreading into a bad habit, but you will learn it whether you want to or not when you're reading anything.
>relatively obscure German loli VN that Krautchan made
What's so interesting about it? It's not even pure japonis product
It has loli porn and takes the piss out of German politicians. And surprisingly good art.
should I know hirigana and katakana before moving on?
Naw man, just use romaji for everything
Yeah, but if you're spending 2 days on the first 5 hiragana, you're doing something wrong. You should be able to have all the kana(Hiragana+katakana) in less than a week.
Do you mean as a whole? It should be almost as easy as reading in English, that's the target.
Or do you mean "I have been learning JP for two days and I have studied these five"? Then yeah, go learn ten more.
no I mean, should I know both very well before moving on or should I just have a good base
>should I know hirigana and katakana before moving on?
You should know how to write this sentence correctly before anything else.
If you didn't know all the kanas within three days you should just stop and do something else more productive
Here is a list of misinformation about learning Japanese that newfags love to say:
>you shouldn't learn from anime and manga because no one actually talks like that
>native japanese can't even pass JLPT1 without studying
>you need to learn kanji before learning vocabulary - "would you learn english before learning the alphabet???"
>nobody says anata in japanese, it's extremely rude
>if you know 10,000 vocabulary you can read most things without any problem
>if you know the jouyou kanji you can read most things without any problems
>i've been watching anime for years so i can pretty much understand 90% of anime raw already
Add more if you want. By the way if you think any of these things are true, you are the type of person I'm talking about.
Do people actually think these things? Aside from the first and the last one in your list I've never seen anyone mention the others.
So, what have you been reading recently?
I haven't been really trying to power through, I was practicing writing them, learning brush stroke orders, and I know the first 5 well and the next 5 pretty well, should I just be powering through everything?
You haven't been here very long then, these things get parroted by people who have no experience whatsoever.
I'm interested in what you're questioning, whether these are said? Or whether they're factually correct?
I guess I should correct myself, I remember the alphabet thing but that was said mostly in jest. The rest though have never been claimed here, I'm pretty sure. I've been following the DJT for more than a year now
They make more sense and you learn them faster when they're used in words. This is the usual reason people learn them so quickly. They learn them all at once and refer to a list constantly while trying to read everything they can and pick them up that way.
Get the fuck out please
I've been here for about a year as well and I do remember most of these things being said, most with people militantly defending them.
is that a better method than what I'm doing?
Not that guy, but I've seen most of those just in my year of study abroad in Japan. It's especially common among 2nd and 3rd year students who think they know something (despite struggling with reading something longer than a paragraph or holding a conversation for longer than a couple minutes).
The whole RTK / KD thing I think is another thing fueling by newfags who don't know any better. They all hear from some other newfag that it's a good idea, and then they repeat it like it's the gospel because they're scared they are sinking time into something that's not doing anything.
If you have rikai on firefox you can hover over words and have a native or a robot (i can never tell which is which) say the word out loud which really reinforces the proper pronunciation and link the kana to the sound it makes.
Oh, it's this shitposter again. Where have you been, haven't seen you in months.
I have no idea what you're talking about but
>oh it's the guy getting super butthurt and scared because someone said the thing he's doing is inefficient
I disagree, I stopped using Kanjidamage after about 900 kanji and transitioned into completely vocab based anki decks and reading. It helped me immensely when starting out.
There are problems with Kanjidamage, but if you're aware of them, they're fairly easy to counteract. I made my own KD deck though, so I may not be the typical KD user.
I use chrome and the extension that was recommended wasn't working at all.
and should I just go through an online list hovering over the kana until I know them all with that exension?
Did you actually use RTK?
Use it on the tae kim guide and learn some of the basic vocab used in the grammar examples along the way.
I did use it to about 1000 kanji and realized how shitty it was and how it didn't really translate to actually learning vocabulary. Essentially it took me about as long to learn a vocabulary with kanji I "learned" with RTK as it did to learn a vocabulary with kanji that I had never seen before. RTK pretty much does nothing, just learn vocabulary and you'll be better off in my opinion.
Yeah, I learned Spanish, and I can still open a newspaper and read the contents well enough, but I have never had the need to speak with anyone in Spanish, nor would I probably understand them fully. Japanese is much more useful to an /a/ browser than either Spanish or Chinese.
More importantly, the Chinese have an easier time learning English than the other way around, so they get the jobs as translators. I guess sticking to an antiquated writing system was pretty smart of them.
I learned vocab with my modified Kanjidamage decks when I used it. I had 4 separate decks and came out of it with a really solid foundation. But I do agree, at around the same point I realized that it was probably time to move on, though it was very helpful earlier on.
How many days has it been since you first started picking up Japanese seriously?
I don't really know about KD, but RTK just gives you a shitty story that you have to reverse engineer every time you want to recognize a kanji. Eventually you just lose the story and recognize the kanji, but it's the same amount of time to just learn to recognize it from scratch. Aside from that you also get a single English keyword, which doesn't do that much help because it's probably the easiest thing to remember from a kanji, to the point where it would be hard to not get meanings from just learning vocabulary. And more accurate ones than a single English word.
November 23rd 2012 (14 months)
Not nearly enough.
6 months so about 180ish days
Well, I started on lang8 in 2009. I was sort of casually learning up to that point. I got interested in Japanese right after I saw my first anime on adult swim back in 2006.
Yeah, kanjidamage tries to give a single, concise English keyword for the kanji, which can lead to confusion because it's usually only partially correct or misleading. As well, there's some misinformation in kanjidamage, which can be bad if it's your only source for Japanese.
The entire basis for radical based learning has flaws that are accentuated by the need for a wide appeal to casuals.
I'll do it eventually.
I'm about 700 in and I constantly wonder whether or not I've already gotten what I needed out of it (learning to not "fear" the kanji and be able to break them down into radicals). I'm not able to do it particularly quickly either, as it takes me a while to properly establish a story in my mind for some reason.
Do you think I would be better off moving on to vocab reps now?
>radical based learning
That should be kanji learning in general.
so you people are saying I should have all kana memorized within a week, does that mean I should be able to ace a test on real kana, or does that mean I should be able to write all 50 characters on a blank piece of paper without any reference material within a week?
KD balances this out by giving vocabulary, both kunyomi and jukugo, for each kanji. You learn vocab at the same time when you use it.
How about you just shut the fuck up and put in 8 hours of studying a day and you will progress. Thinking about the future or where you should be is just a waste of time, just focus on doing good every single day.
Yeah, I agree that that is definitely the way to go. I found that knowing words that contained the kanji made it much easier to remember/recognize than any mnemonic did for me.
>tfw we're supposed to be politically correct and pretend RTK and KD are "equal" because we don't want to upset the few retards who actually prefer the former over the latter because informal language angers their autism and in doing so we doom tens if not hundreds of potential learners to giving up or learning really inefficiently with Heisig's shit method
When will this madness end?
>implying I'm not studying right now
also why so hostile
You don't need to break kanji down to radicals, aside from maybe kanji that look sort of similar which really isn't that difficult. You don't even have to know what a radical is, it's not like you'll be reading the radicals anyway, you'll eventually (pretty quickly) just learn the shape of the entire kanji as a whole and ignore everything else, kind of like how you read words in English instead of letters. Unless of course you want to write, then learn the radicals and stick with RTK.
I started 3 years ago and learned the Syllabary along with basic grammar and some kanji then petered off at some point.
Started taking it seriously again in November. so 70ish days?
to think, these threads weren't even a thing when i first started
RTK never worked for me but from what I can tell its main "selling point" is that you can remember how to WRITE the kanji more easily. If you just want to recognize them on sight it doesn't matter a whole lot what method you use, from my perspective. And no, I don't ever need to write them by hand so I don't care too much about that.
If KD isn't sufficiant, what other source can you use besides RTK?
>tfw we're supposed to be politically correct and pretend KD and vocabulary learning are "equal" because we don't want to upset the few retards who actually prefer the former over the latter because not knowing every single stroke of every kanji angers their autism and in doing so we doom tens if not hundreds of potential learners to giving up or learning really inefficiently with KD's shit method
When will this madness end?
I don't get this. I honestly think it's better to leave something ambiguous and explain the meaning rather than risk losing it
Started in August of 2012 learned a few phrases like "ohio go zayimas", picked it back up and learned kana a month or two later. Spent the next 3 months 'learning' 100 kanji.
Decided I wanted to actually learn and did 20 kanji a day for 3 months with vocab. Burnt out and slowly kept doing vocab up until now.
Only half way through JLPTN3 at this point with lots of outside vocab from reading ;_;
>implying learning about Japanese is the same thing as learning Japanese
>implying this isn't just a form of procrastination
Sorry, the vocab only bait will never catch on. You did your best to force it a few months ago and it just didn't work. You should probably give up already.
They both do the same shit, except in different order.
They are not as different as you are trying to make them seem like.
Sorry, the KD bait will never catch on. You did your best to force it a few months ago and it just didn't work. You should probably give up already.
why would I procrastinate doing something I choose to do?
also earlier I was told if I can't learn kana within a week I should just quit
it seems everyone here is a cunt
Sorry, this DJT bait will never catch on. You did your best to force it a few months ago and it just didn't work. You should probably give up already.
It depends on the target audience of the translation and the tone of the work itself.
Welcome to /a/
>it seems everyone here is a cunt
That is true.
You should probably leave if you actually want to make some study done, the guide is the only useful thing here.
I'm not trying to kick you out, this is honest advice.
I came here again a few days for the first time in many months and since then my Japanese progress has completely stagnated.
I'm trying to give you really good advice right now, please don't make the same mistake as everyone else here and listen. Focus on the only thing you can control, which is the present, and learning about Japanese isn't the same as learning Japanese. Those two things are what most people waste the most time with, and get the most depressed about. Just do your best, right now, to learn Japanese and don't think about anything else. If you just think that way all of the time you will have no problems and never get depressed. It's only when you think about the past or future that will make you feel that way. So don't worry about how fast you're learning kana, just keep going in the present.
That's your own fault, dipshit. Nobody's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read this thread.
But think of all the foxgirls not being fapped to right now, doesn't it just break your heart?
Yeah, I'm here because shitposting is way more fun than actually studying.
how important is learning brush stroke order? should I learn it right away
>if you know the jouyou kanji you can read most things without any problems
No, that's silly. Of course you need kana too. Then you can read "most things" (depending on your definition of "most things") without MUCH problem. If you also have a good grasp of grammar and know your vocabulary.
It isn't that important if you aren't going to be writing out Japanese. You should keep it in mind, but don't focus on it.
If you want to write or read anything handwritten, yes. Pixiv has terrible handwriting. Otherwise, only for looking up kanji by drawing them or knowing the amount of strokes.
if you intend to write anything then you should just learn the proper stroke order anyways.
If it doesn't make sense to you at first, it will when you start to encounter some nips handwriting in your favorite doujin or mango.
>By the way if you think any of these things are true, you are the type of person I'm talking about.
How's your first couple months of Japanese going dude?
what makes お and を different?
A better question is what makes them similar?
One is o and the other is wo?
Japanese used to (and arguably still does) have a 'wo' sound.
The latter is used as a particle and (basically) nowhere else.
look at the forecast
you probably have a lot of cards tomorrow and fewer the day after tomorrow, so it puts all of them there until both days are equal
they're pronounced exactly the same though aren't they?
So what would you reccomend the best way to learn kanji is?
Only when you use it as a particle.
The same way you pronounce the は particle as わ.
Kill yourself and hope to be reborn as a Nip
Through vocabulary, obviously.
Wait around 3 years when Abe officially demoslishes kanji
You've just asked a very tricky linguistic question. Sometimes there's this thing that sounds slightly different from お and sometimes there isn't. In another hundred years or so it will either come back or disappear completely.
Oh, now you hurt my feelings. I think I have to go cry in a corner.
を comes after 自分
so it's borderline ゐ or ゑ?
They still have those in their original form for the most part, but aren't used in most words. Listen to the woman on the core decks. Sometimes it's almost a うぉ in comparison to every other お she says.
In 100 years all Americans will be speaking Spanish, all Japanese will be speaking Brazilian Portuguese and all Europeans will be speaking Chinese.
How far in Tae Kim should I be before starting the Core 2000?
>all Japanese will be speaking Brazilian Portuguese
I see what you did there.
If you know what the particle は is then you're good to go. It's fine/good to do them concurrently.
Please no, this is not even a language, just a mix of farting, burping and wheezing.
>all Europeans will be speaking Chinese
You mean, Arabic?
I think you mean Sundanese.
Now you're just making words up.
>tfw tfw tfw there are over 7,000 different languages on Earth.
>People spend their whole lives trying to finish RTK
>tfw there are more kanjis than there are languages
I got an idea, how about we stop making these threads? It will be beneficial to all of us, I guarantee it.
It'll be more beneficial to everyone if you killed yourself
I'll kill you first nerd
>using nerd as an insult
It's post-ironic, you wouldn't understand
guys, guys. please. it's obvious that we'll speak a mixture of English, Turkish, Chinese and Portuguese in the furture.
Most of it isn't can't/will not be used in the swords and the flexibility along with durability is not only intended but a huge improvement from swords used in the worst, for example, which would have a chance of shattering in combat because of the large amount of impurities and an overall poorer design.
Are you a sword smith or something?
>not communicating via highspeed telepathy with antennas so compact they fit right into your nose
Any Anki decks that flash the kanji, then the meaning/kana? All the one's I've downloaded flash the meaning, then the kanji/kana and it's terrible for actually memorizing the kanji.
You can just remake the cards, if the info is in the notes.