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Started re-watching Monster again with hopes to fully understand it this time through... Still fail to realize why Nina "forgives" Johan, why Tenma saves Johan, and why Johan isn't placed under police surveillance in the hospital. Tenma was proven innocent, so I would assume that Johan being behind all of it would come to light; Making it so Johan can't jump out the hospital window whenever he wants.

Basically answer why Johan deserves to live/be forgiven when he was taking and threatening lives up until the very end.
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>>100315829
Nina forgave Johan because she realized that he was the product of a cruel sociological experiment, Tenma saved him again because he's a doctor and doctors save lives, and Johan had no police watch since he was considered brain dead, which we find out wasn't true at all.
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Nina wants the Tenma dick so she's doing everything she can that he doesn't die, goes mad or ends up in prison.
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Nina forgives Johan because she's been kind of fucked up by the whole story and developes a massive guilt complex that she feels she's the one responsible for turning Johan into what he is.

Johan saves him because of the same reason he never kills him despite several opportunities and the ENTIRE chase. If you didn't want the show, he's the most perfect Human Being ever and respects life above all else. Plus Nina practically begged him to save him. The entire teme of the show is will Tenma break and "prove Johan right". He proved him wrong by saving him.

An alternate popular suggestion for the ending is that Johan actually died and the scene at the end is in Tenma's head. I know there was later a follow up chapter of some sort that 'disproves' this, but many people choose to ignore that.
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What was Johan's plan anyway?
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What ever happened to the whole "Johan isn't evil, he just has multiple personality disorder" thing?
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>>100316379
but johann was broken because his mother valued the life of one twin higher than that of the other
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>>100315829
I can answer that, give me a minute.

>>100316668
Johan's plan is both subtle and insane.
His plan is actually to fight fate itself and test humans.

He purposefully cornered himself with everyone who knew his existence and tested to see if he could survive placing the ultimate impossible situation on Tenma, who would never shoot, and actually survive. Which Johan did and defeated fate once again by odds that were beyond his calculations.

The final confession Johan gives to Tenma is another one of his lies in order to fuck with Tenma to see if his resolve is strong and wiggle his way out again.
The ending of Monster is 2deep4u because most people simply do not understand Johan.
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>>100315829
You see, Johan is plain evil. The purest of incarnation that exist.

Not because he kills people for fun, which people could understand on some level, but that he commits crimes and murder for no purpose whatsoever other than to tempt fate itself.

You see, Johan is playing the biggest game of dare.
He's essentially playing that rooftop edge game but with the rest of the world.
He wants someone to pull the trigger and actually kill him.
Because its more interesting that way.

The thing with Johan is that no one can tell his lie.
That he has no motive.
He has no desire, no goal. He kills, fucks with people's life all so that they can try and kill him. All while he does his best at doing as little as possible by fucking as much as possible without anyone noticing.
His motive is even worse since his goal in life is to get people to seek him out.
He was only interested in his mother's death as an excuse to get more people to kill him.
He doesn't care about his sister, he doesn't care about his past either.
Any excuse he gives is just bullshit for people to try and understand him.
He gives bullshit left and right just to make things interesting (help me, the monster inside me is growing)

It just gets him more attention while not doing anything. Johan is evil because nothing matters and everyone can't grasp that a human cannot have a single desire or feeling.
He must care about who he is, he must care about his sister, he must care about the human condition.
But he doesn't. He has no motivation. All his motivations are complete and utter lies that people try to understand while they chase Johan.
Why do you think he killed Nina's parents? Why do you think he told everyone his past was connected to the Rose Mansion when it was Nina that went, not him? It's all lies.
And the worst of all, he represents everything that is the ideal of human, he's smart, charismatic, beautiful and everyone bows down to him, but he doesn't care. He lost all will and ill to mankind.
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>>100317153
>>100317392

This is the biggest bunch of horseshit I've ever read and completely untrue in any sense of the word. One of the reasons some people are so let down by the end of Monster is that by the end of the series Johan is a simpering wreck of the "Monster" he had built himself up to be.

For the first half of the series (and most of his life), when Johan was amnesiac about himself and basically running off the "programming" of Bonaparte's experiment instilled in him by Nina, he's dedicated to furthering the brainwashing programs causes. His entire life is dedicated to the ideas of using the crazy mind-control/hypnosis powers he learned second hand from Bonaparte in "playing with people like ants" and experimenting with "the limits, details, effects, reactions, causality, etc. of fear and chaos on Humanity as a whole", all whilst continuing the original experiments theme of erasing the self and essentially turning himself into a "Stand Alone Complex".

After he finds "the Monster Without a Name" and remembers who he is, where he came from, etc., he breaks and turns into an inwardly simpering little bitch who decides that the scariest thing in the universe, reflecting his own existence and stressing his secondary goals until that point, is de-existing oneself from Humanity. In some weird self effacing, self-despising act of ultimate suicide the entire second half of the series is him erasing his own existence and as much record of it as he possibly can from the Earth. This turning into a little bitch and shadow of the Monster he once was is one of the reason a lot of people are let down with the latter bitch of the manga/anime.

Also, in random response to other comments:

-He generally loved Nina and always agreed to let her kill him if she wanted to too.

-The whole "chicken game on the roof" was just one of his generic 'fear/control' experiments, no deeper meaning.
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>>100317392
>>100318205
Not supporting either, but when Lunge entered in Johan's room he said that it was " completely devoid of any trace of human life". This was when he was supposedly already broken
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>>100318205
Johan was amnesiac about his past but his evil intent was always present, which was drove everyone insane at 511.

There are other points showing this metaphorically such as when he is wearing a wig and pretending to be Nina.

His talk with the kid who later goes to the Red Light District is very telling.
Johan basically tells the kid that he is unwanted, unneeded and has no true purpose.
Johan is actually talking about himself.

When Johan is talking to kids about ''how he views the world'' he explains to them the game of the rooftop. It's basically his own game but how he does it with the entire world, basically challenging whomever discovers him to try and kill him, which is why he puts his finger on his forehead.
He goats people to kill him and tries to squirm death as close as possible and change the mind of whomever wants to kill him. All while leaving as little trace as possible.

Johan is ''messing with the line of ants'' to test human kind and fate itself.
He is the motivator that gets people to spend their life chasing him without truly understanding him.

If Johan never cared about anything and everything he was building was a complete lie.
When Johan vanishes from the hospital, he's simply off to continue what he was been doing for a long time.
Bits and pieces of Johan's mind are scattered everywhere.
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>>100317392
>>100318205

I'm not either of these anons and it's been a long time since I've read Monster but from what I remember of the series is that I enjoyed the idea of a villain like Johan more than the execution of Johan himself. Honestly, I think of anything memorable about Johan after he burns down the building. Lunge and Grimmer were fairly memorable as characters but if I had to explain what happens in Monster outside of the first 3 volumes to someone, I honestly couldn't. Maybe it was 2deep4me or my own shit memory but the multitude of characters and lack of overarching action made Monster pretty meh to me and has turned me off from reading 20th century boys.
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>>100319008

The problem is, the series makes it ABUNDANTLY clear that Johan, despite being a severly fucked up individual, and despite several people's beliefs, has a very clear set of Human emotions, that aren't an 'act' or this weird set of metaphorical, surrealist lies you've apparebtly convinced yourself Johan is telling despite all evidence to the contrary.

Hell, the massive, trauma filled SCREAM he lets out upon finding the Monster Without a Name and how it affects him emotionally and mentally and changes his entire worldview and life plan, completely irrespective of any relation to anyone else (meaning it can't be an 'act' to fuck with someone since it's 'inside his head')
, disproves nearly everything ou say.

Hell, the fact that Johan very clearly loves and takes great, if not muted, enjoyment out of fucking with people and trolling them disproves your statement, as does his emotional,ly falling apart towards the end of the manga/anime.

In point of fact, I like how your "theory" involves saying "oh btw ignore everything Johan ever says proving me wrong cause uhm, that's a clever ruse of his...even when that makes no sense and he's clearly not rusing".

Furthermore, it's funny that when he IS rusing, you fall for it hook line and sinker. Case in point, when he uses his bamboozklement to get the kid to kill himself/fall apart/who knows cause he doesn't even stay to seer the aftermath'.

Also, case in point, Johan seeing Bonaparte as a greater 'Monster' than himself, the monster who he dcredits with creating the 'Monster'. Who ends up just as disappointing. Which is another theme of the manga/anime "don't be so afraid of "mopnsters" they're largely devices we create to embellish Humans with enormous problems which can be delt with.



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