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Code Geass: Gurren-Lagann with intelligence. ^_^
>>
^_^
>>
inb4 shitstorm
>>
3 CG threads? Season 2 isn't even out yet.
>>
Trollsage: Sage with meaning
>>
>_>
>>
Code Geass: Gundam without space.
>>
>^_^
>>
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Code Geass is ten times better!!


HOPING FOR SEASON 2!
>>
Gurren-Lagann: Naruto with mecha.
>>
>>10020738

animesuki faggot
>>
I'll go on record and declare Gurren-Lagann as anything but mindless, completely incomparable to Code Geass or the like. The show is that of a strong opinion, one carried by an unflinching speech. The delivery of a multi-layered meaningful assertion is the ultimate objective, a carefully calculated achievement towards an "altered state of mind".
The narrative strips a media swallowed down by purposeless plot convulsion from unnecessary fluff and successfully intertwines in a concrete shape of unyielding palpability what is commonly recognized as separate: argument, theme and symbolism take a single. From the depths of nostalgia the forgotten but powerful voice of honest beliefs surfaces within a technique of representation built over naked, yet fundamental, ideas. In more than one way this essential notion behind the storytelling is deliberately old-fashioned yet actively forward-looking.

Stagnation, mindless progress and the very nature of human "evolution"; with a manifest yet subtle use of imagery such an abstraction becomes core for the script. They're amazingly broad, basically limitless, yet due to their handling tangible enough to be substantial. Textually knitted into the actual writing without even resorting to term dropping; eloquently described through a seamless combination of visuals, dialogs and raw feelings.
>>
>>10020751


Even from the very first episode, the attributed core theme is unconcealed to the eyes; enclosed tightly into the premise behind Kamina's constant claims of a "burning youth" breaking through a "ceiling" towards an idealized heaven of freedom. The physical "ceiling" keeping Jeeha village in the underground is just allegoric of a limitation decided by "those that came before"; a literary reiteration that outlines the complete creative purpose. Something that could be called a "youth chained by the foolishness of their ancestors" if you wanted to be dramatic.
>>
>>10020743
>Gurren-Lagann: Naruto with mecha.
>>
From the same episode, we are presented with the "burden of responsibility". The Elder states it clearly: "I'm not taking care of you orphans because I want to! It's because I'm the elder and it's my task to ensure the future of this village."

It's simple, yet very eloquent. A piece of brilliant characterization.
>>
Many talks have been had in this board about the idea of "progress" and "generations" across Gurren-Lagann's narrative, but I believe some of you are over-looking another key concept integral to the storytelling: "individuality".

Gurren-Lagann declares individuality as:
-Something necessary for progress
-Something you achieve rather than being born with.
-A single individual may begin a "social revolution" in order to destroy standardization.
-It's reciprocal. You gain individuality by your interactions with others.
>>
>>10020778


“What is a person?
Eh?... Well, a person is something like us, that looks like this, and has a face...
There are others, too?
Huh? Ah, yes, there are...
Really? Are they all like you? Do they have a face like yours?
We're not the same. If we had the same face, it would be disturbing.”

It's impressive how much a simplistic dialog says about the global conflict AND the episode in question.
-Faces are a clear symbol of individuality in Gurren-Lagann. Hence the heavily characterized faced machines and the vilification of the mugan.
-By proxy, declares lack of individuality and "fitting in" as something disturbing.
-Hence portrays Simon's inner conflict after Kamina's demise. Him wanting to showcase a face that wasn't his.
-Similarly, it states the route of Nia's character development. Despite her looks, she was always one of millions: a doll for Lord Genome, a messenger for the Anti-Spiral. It's also her purpose for the narrative to portray another route to how reciprocal "individualization" is, since both she and Simon become individuals only through the help of each other.
>>
>>10020781

>-Faces are a clear symbol of individuality in Gurren-Lagann. Hence the heavily characterized faced machines and the vilification of the mugan.

Here you could find an ambiguity in the fact that Kamina “stole” his face to the enemy. But this was merely reinforced the statement of individuality being something you win rather than something you’re born with.
There is also a very interesting social statement lying in the underneath. Kamina created a revolution, he inspired a broad number of similar-minded proxies to attain their own individual faces by stealing them from "repression". Kamina's and Simon's face, Gurren-Lagann, became a symbol of hope. It's a concept as accomplished as SAC's memetics, but explained in a more down-to-earth and eloquent fashion.
>>
>>10020784

>I'm not the same person as you.
>As a matter of fact, I'm a totally different person.
>But because we are different, I believe we can live together.
>Thank you... for this ring.
>I am very happy

Concretely, this takes the idea of "different faces" forward and reinforces the idea of a reciprocal individualization. Beyond that, this perfectly ties in with:

>Genetic diversity via sexual reproduction is the key to evolution.

...to a more blatant extent and adds to the overall dramatics of Nia, who was so proud of her self-attained individuality, becoming but a puppet for a society of "same-faced" individuals.
>>
>>10020790

No, I'm not. All of these themes and developments are clear as water.

As for now, I'll explain how characters assert their individuality by their interactions with others through the more simplistic examples I can find:

-Kamina's security came from his need to become a man that would respect Simon.
-Simon's strength and personality came from the belief of both Kamina and Nia.
-Nia "learned" from Simon to become her own self, to be someone different from just "Genome's daughter".

As for a metafictional take on this statement, I'll resort to quoting Gainax own history:

>>assert your individuality by your interactions with others.
Has been every single aspect of Gainax since day one. Every single Gainax work owes plenty to different narratives. They've mastered their own voice through experimenting with others' voices.
>>
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Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D: Yu-Gi-Oh! on motorcycles.
>>
>Professional opinion, by Utena's director himself:

>Gurren-Lagann is a show that uses nostalgia as structure, but follows a very forward-looking narrative in the underneath. It's a statement on the medium itself, so to speak, and probably the more important robot story of the decade.
>>
I remember this copy-pasta.
>>
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>>10020751
>>10020761
>>10020778
>>10020781
>>10020784
>>10020790
>>10020792
>>
>>
>Aishta no Joe's mangaka:

>At first, I was kinda apathetic at giving this show an award. It had a heart, surely, but it felt like a quotation of the past rather than at attempt to move the medium forward. After a talk with Ikuhana, I decided to give the show another shot. Not only it is visually very interesting, the overall narrative uses anime itself as a metafictional medium of plot development. Using robots stolen from the enemy against them? Build your civilization over the structure you've just destroyed? Getting a hold of your ancestors ships yet making them fit your shape? It's all so brilliant and subtle you can't help but laugh in awe. A+!
>>
>This early prologue informs viewers from the very outset that the Gurren Lagann story will eventually take on a galactic scale and setting. The prologue sequence's obvious homage to Captain Harlock also prepares viewers to expect an anime series that relies heavily upon homage and inspiration from previous anime. In fact, after stripping away Gurren Lagann's references and inspirations from earlier anime including Getter Robo, Captain Harlock, St Seiya, Otoko Juku, Gunbuster, and Evangelion, there's really not much left.

>there's really not much left.
>really not much left.
>not much left.

Professional opinion.
>>
Code Geass: Death Note with robots and shittier characters.
>>
>>10020829

By whom? I'm sure he's no better from Utena's Kunio Ikuhana or Aishta no Joe's mangaka.
>>
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>>10020829

>BETTER professional opinion, by Utena's director himself:

>Gurren-Lagann is a show that uses nostalgia as structure, but follows a very forward-looking narrative in the underneath. It's a statement on the medium itself, so to speak, and probably the more important robot story of the decade.
>>
>>10020839

>>Code Geass: Death Note with robots and better characters and NO MELLO.

fixed
>>
Wow, just wow.
>>
>>10020859
> the more important
Who fucking types like this.

Seriously.

Go fuck yourself.
>>
>Code Geass

>intelligence

>^_^
>>
>>10020861
>NO MELLO

Which is a good thing, right?
>>
>Code Geass: Gundam Seed Destiny. ^_^
>>
>>10020751
>>10020761
>>10020778
>>10020781
>>10020784
>>10020790
>>10020792
Non sequitur. Onus probandi. Rhetoric.
>>
>>10020879

Japanese translators.
>>
>Ghostnia
>>
>>10020902

They were internally consistent and supported by quotes and examples. They also fits together and makes a lot of sense. So, really, people going "logical fallacy" are nothing but worthless trolls. Maybe they just don't know how to analyze such things as literature, movies, or other entertainment mediums, and instantly assume that anything involving the catching of subtle points leading to a larger theme (which is essential if you know anything about writing themes into a novel/movie/animation series) to be "over-doing" it?
>>
>>10020944
Consistency does not demonstrate proof.
>>
>>
>>10020955

In literary analysis, it does. A theme may only be a theme depending on how consistent it is.

The copy-pasta states:

>Gurren-Lagann declares individuality as:
>-Something necessary for progress
>-Something you achieve rather than being born with.
>-A single individual may begin a "social revolution" in order to destroy standardization.
>-It's reciprocal. You gain individuality by your interactions with others.

For which it sets the bases through:

“What is a person?
Eh?... Well, a person is something like us, that looks like this, and has a face...
There are others, too?
Huh? Ah, yes, there are...
Really? Are they all like you? Do they have a face like yours?
We're not the same. If we had the same face, it would be disturbing.”

>It's impressive how much a simplistic dialog says about the global conflict AND the episode in question.
>-Faces are a clear symbol of individuality in Gurren-Lagann. Hence the heavily characterized faced machines and the vilification of the mugan.
>-By proxy, declares lack of individuality and "fitting in" as something disturbing.
>-Hence portrays Simon's inner conflict after Kamina's demise. Him wanting to showcase a face that wasn't his.
>-Similarly, it states the route of Nia's character development. Despite her looks, she was always one of millions: a doll for Lord Genome, a messenger for the Anti-Spiral. It's also her purpose for the narrative to portray another route to how reciprocal "individualization" is, since both she and Simon become individuals only through the help of each other.

It is a loosely related analysis that helps building up his idea.
>>
>>10021014

The follow up leads through:

>-Faces are a clear symbol of individuality in Gurren-Lagann. Hence the heavily characterized faced machines and the vilification of the mugan.

>Here you could find an ambiguity in the fact that Kamina “stole” his face to the enemy. But this was merely reinforced the statement of individuality being something you win rather than something you’re born with.

>There is also a very interesting social statement lying in the underneath. Kamina created a revolution, he inspired a broad number of similar-minded proxies to attain their own individual faces by stealing them from "repression". Kamina's and Simon's face, Gurren-Lagann, became a symbol of hope. It's a concept as accomplished as SAC's memetics, but explained in a more down-to-earth and eloquent fashion.
>>
>>10020955

> supported by quotes and examples
> quotes and examples
> supported
> quotes
> examples

Besides, that post is a direct copy-pasta from another thread, in direct reply to something else. The mention of consistency made sense in that context.
>>
>>10021014

>I'll explain how characters assert their individuality by their interactions with others through the more simplistic examples I can find:

>-Kamina's security came from his need to become a man that would respect Simon.
>-Simon's strength and personality came from the belief of both Kamina and Nia.
>-Nia "learned" from Simon to become her own self, to be someone different from just "Genome's daughter".
>>
Assertion: n^2 = 2n

Proof:
2^2 = 2*2

What? My example is consistent with the system, therefore it must be true!
>>
>>10021059

One example does not make consistency. Besides, the copy-pasta is talking about a closed environment, only examples related to the realm of the narrative itself.
>>
>>10021059

Counterargument:

5^2 =/= 2*5

Still internally consistent.
Counterarguments have to be considered too, you know.
>>
>>10020829

Who was the source of this copy pasta?
>>
>>10021095
Oh, but 20 do?
>>
>>10021122

In literary analysis... they do.
>>
>>10021140

Anonymous on 4chan.
>>
Your system can't be consistent when words are contradictory. It's pointless to try and find themes! I can disprove a conjectured truth about a theme by merely using the contradictory nature of words.

>>10021149
I laughed hard.
>>
>>10021157

Then how is it a professional opinion?
>>
>>10021186

So narrative shouldn't have no underlying meaning at all? Not to mention this one is fucking blatant. It's not even an "analysis", it's just stating what was already defined through the show.
>>
>>10021202

BECAUSE HE REFERENCES OLDER WORKS.
>>
Challenge: strip the rhetoric from the essay, gather assertions and attempt to prove them logically.

You may find these logical operators handy: →, ¬, ∧, ∨, ↔, ├
>>
>>10021252

What are you trying to prove in here? It's not even a real essay, the copy-pasta just makes it clear enough so that even the more dense of spectators may come to appreciate the idea of "individualism" in Gurren-Lagann.
>>
>>10021252

OH FUCK LOGIC OPERATORS
HOW I HATED THEM
THEY MADE READING LOOK LIKE MATHS, FUCK
>>
>>10021217
I believe its underlying meaning is about sexual intercourse.

Proof:
1) By using a quote from the show: 'Pierce the heavens with your drill!' where a heaven is a vagina, and a drill is a penis.
>>
>>10020714
real=/=super
>>
>>10021348
fucking dunce
>>
OH MY GOD THIS THREAD.
>>
>>10021354

But those themes were stated blatantly in the actual show. That's an interpretation, the copy-pasta is an explanation.
>>
>>10021276
YOUR WHOLE FIELD IS DOING IT WRONG.
>>
>>10021392
forgot your sage. this thread must never see the light of the first page.
>>
>>10021354

Counterargument:

The quote is used as proof for a much more heavily-supported theme of "going beyond the impossible", which can be seen throughout the entirety of the show. "Going beyond the impossible" is not only Kamina's battlecry, but is also actually done during the end of the show, when the Gurren-dan achieve something Lord Genome judged to have a rate of ZERO PERCENT.

The reason the quote is used for this is because, when the quote was used, it was during a time when all their Gunman could only walk, and the thought of actually flying into space was thought to be impossible; indeed, this was achieved only after the time skip.

Counterargument 2:

The argument is not supported by clear examples. A single quote ripped out of context (the context being a battlecry, or a declaration of will, rather than sex) is not a strong argument at all.
>>
>>10021416

What is the matter? Too DEEP for you
>>
>>10021448
too DEEP? or NOT DEEP ENOUGH?
>>
>>10021453
I'm lost for words. You're basically asserting that the more examples, the more 'proven' something is.
>>
>>10021508

Wait, are you suggesting that the more proof one has, the more proven it is, is ACTUALLY WRONG?
FUCK, I MUST HAVE BEEN FUCKING THIS WHOLE PROVING THING FROM THE START.

Also, I was also asserting that the one proof that he provided was not even strong enough to stand up on its own, since it was ripped from its context, the context being a battlecry. It is rarely, if not NEVER, used in reference to sex in the show.
>>
>>10021508

What are we trying to prove in here, in the first place?
>>
So much horrible copypasta.

9/10 to the OP though, good troll.
>>
>>10021573

We're seeing if the power of love could potentially send a man through a black hole.
>>
>>10021584

So much RIGHT copy-pasta I can't argue with. MUST SAGE.
>>
You ALL got it wrong.

Code Geass is Gundam without Gundams.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT THAT LEAVES!
>>
>Gurren-Lagann with intelligence.

Derp.
>>
>>10021560
'Proven' in the sense that it's 'likely' to be true. Simply because something has more examples does not demonstrate it to be a truth. Either are valid until a counterexample shows otherwise.
>>
>>10021656

B-b-b-but Code geass have knightmares
>>
>>10021656
The gay?
>>
I guess that in a way, Code Geass IS Gurren Lagann with intelligence, but intelligence is explicitly not what Gurren lagann is about.

In GL, is Kamina reasonable? Does Kamina do the smart thing, think things through, weigh the odds?

FUCK NO. KICK REASON TO THE CURB AND GO BEYOND THE IMPOSSIBLE.

If you wanna be smart, you're Rossiu.
>>
>>10021717

Yes, but you still need SOME examples. At least ONE good one. The single argument that was provided was not good at all, not only because of what was stated in counterargument 2 (which you seem to be obsessed with), but also because of the argument contained in counterargument 1 (which you have wholly ignored in order to pursue this pointless line of thought; Strawman Fallacy, so to speak).
>>
>>10021760
And if you wanna be Rossiu, you're a faggot.
>>
>>10021790

So if you wanna be smart, you're a faggot.
Since CG is a "smart" GL, then it logically follows that it is also a "faggot" GL.
>>
>>10021760
I'm not saying GL is a stupid show. It's not, it's a fucking sublime show. But it's not a show about intelligence.
>>
>>10021656 Gundam is Code geass without Knightmares
>>
I'll go on record and declare Gurren-Lagann as anything but mindless, completely incomparable to Code Geass or the like. The show is that of a strong opinion, one carried by an unflinching speech. The delivery of a multi-layered meaningful assertion is the ultimate objective, a carefully calculated achievement towards an "altered state of mind".
The narrative strips a media swallowed down by purposeless plot convulsion from unnecessary fluff and successfully intertwines in a concrete shape of unyielding palpability what is commonly recognized as separate: argument, theme and symbolism take a single. From the depths of nostalgia the forgotten but powerful voice of honest beliefs surfaces within a technique of representation built over naked, yet fundamental, ideas. In more than one way this essential notion behind the storytelling is deliberately old-fashioned yet actively forward-looking.

Stagnation, mindless progress and the very nature of human "evolution"; with a manifest yet subtle use of imagery such an abstraction becomes core for the script. They're amazingly broad, basically limitless, yet due to their handling tangible enough to be substantial. Textually knitted into the actual writing without even resorting to term dropping; eloquently described through a seamless combination of visuals, dialogs and raw feelings.
>>
BOTH CODE GEASS AND GURREN LAGANN ARE RETARDED
>>
>>10021770
Oh, so an argument has to be 'good', for your definitions of good, now?

Your argument #1 does not present a counterexample. There may be two interpretations of something which seem contradictory of each other, but that, again, does not necessarily mean the one with the 'more examples' is true.
>>
>>10021833

All you did was take a badly written Ghost Nia copy pasta full of nickel words dug out of a thesaurus, and replaced GaoGaiGar with with Code Geass.

0/10
>>
I agree, GL is not mindless. But it is also not a show that portrays stopping to think, weighing the odds and hedging your bets as a good thing.

If I compare it and CG to other anime, I'd say that GL is close to Akagi, who also wins by being willing to risk everything, and CG is closer to Death Note, where Kira wins* by being smarter than you.

*I stopped watching at ep26 and I prefer to pretend that's the end of the anime.
>>
>>10021837

Well then what show isn´t retarded master of good anime?
>>
A retarded master of good anime?
>>
>>10021860
No, actually. I took a post from earlier in this thread and copypasta'd it. But nice try.
>>
>>10021838

Of course an argument has to be 'good'.
And I never said "more examples", at least not in the way you're trying to make it. I said that there needs to be examples that ACTUALLY SUPPORT THE DAMN ARGUMENT. Since there was zero of such examples in the argument, then logically speaking there needs to be more, since 1 is more than 0.
And you keep missing the part where I point out that the quote is ripped of its context in the argument. Twice.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do, to be honest, your entire complaint hinges on a Strawman.
>>
Can someone tell me what the argument actually way? Or preferably animate a short two minute anime segment summing up this thread for me?
>>
>>10021826
Gundam just calls them Mobile Suits and takes off the roller skates.
>>
>>10021996

Read >>10021354
>>
>>10022032
Ah. Shouldn't we be having a discussion on postmodernism, the nature of interpretation and the death of the author, then?
>>
>>10022032


Then all this thread is about how the drill(penis) can pierces the heaven (vagina)
>>
>>10022078

Yes, but that only leads to tears.
>>
>>10022111
Manly ones?
>>
>>10022135

Postmodern ones.
>>
>>10021965
You're actually entirely correct I was ignoring its out-of-contextness; I didn't absorb it after several reads -- I was busy focusing on other points. My superficial point is this: suppose I found a plausible (which I suppose, you could call 'good') quote -- which may or may not be in a context -- that supports my argument, how are you going to prove which is correct? Well, you can't prove which is correct so I suppose you'd find a counterexample. Ok, suppose you do, but then I find a counterexample to your interpretation which, for argument's sake, was the intention of the author then you'd, quite reasonably, argue the counterexample wasn't valid! This is what I severely dislike about literary analysis, and why I see it pointless.

Apologies for the lack of structured paragraphs; I'm tired, and I want to have my words before you go off and do something else.
>>
Gurren-Lagann is really nothing but Dragon Ball Z with mechs.

It's the same show.
>>
>>10022536

>>Lucky Star is really nothing but Azumanga Daioh without funny.

fixed
>>
>>10022536
They're totally different. Don't mock DBZ by grouping it with the steaming pile that is GL. G Gundam is DBZ with mechs, and god bless it for that. GL is an artistic pseudo-philosophical load of bull.
>>
>Code Geass: Same repeated old story, but completely different.



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