So, /a/, what are do you think are some of the most well written anime in the medium?
>what are do you think are some
No, related means the picture is relevant to the thread. This clearly isn't the case here, so the word you're looking for is unrelated. It's clear English isn't your first language, I thought I'd help you out there.
I seriously hope you meant unrelated
Feel free to name something better.
Seirei no Moribito?
I honestly feel like Madoka is up there
Just from the same season? Hidamari sketch x Honeycomb, Jojo, Little Busters, Chuu2, Girls und Panzer, Psycho Pass, Robotics Notes, Initial D 5th stage(though should I count that since it was PPV and released a few episodes at a time? It's pretty much an OVA), probably a few others. But hey, at least I can say it was honestly better than Btooom.
Certain episodes of Cowboy Bebop (Speak like a Child stands out, for example)
The Chihiro and Renji story in Ef ~A Tale of Memories~
Those were the first three that came to mind.
I have to admit, Tatami Galaxy is one of if not my favorite anime.
Boku no Bunagun
You're either retarded or just picking shows you enjoyed (meaning you have shit taste). If you seriously think something as fucking horrible as Chu2 or GuP are better written than SSY you must have mental problems.
>I have never seen Shinsekai Yori
Not OP, but I don't think anything will ever really match it because it was adapted from a novel. Not a LN but an actual novel novel that won awards, and that doesn't happen too often in the world of anime.
He's doesn't understand that just because he liked it, doesn't mean it has great writing.
There literally is nothing else that can compare in terms of writing to LoGH. It's a shame more people from /a/ haven't seen it because they're scared of the length. Trust me guys, it's fucking worth it.
SSY is great but Chuu2 certainly isn't terrible. It isn't out there to be an ambitious story to begin with. That guy was clearly just trolling.
No I'm saying it was that badly written that even things like chuu2 are better written. Try to keep up here.
>It was adapted from a novel that won awards! It must be well written!
Surely you can't be that stupid. I have not read the novel, so I can't tell you if it's just a bad adaptation or the novel was shit too though.
Were there actual humans left in SSY?
"deep" anime are rarely well written
I don't know, just because it was adapted from a novel doesn't necessarily mean it's better written than an original or ln/vn/manga adaptation (thought it usually probably would be)
The visual novel.
>There literally is nothing else that can compare in terms of writing to LoGH.
First off, that's bullshit.
Secondly, LoGH has objectively terrible writing when it comes to any kind of tactical or combat scene.
Than suggest something better than SSY in terms of writing, I'm quite curious what would someone that found it bad would find good.
And Eva is no exception.
>objectively terrible writing
I haven't seen that show yet but the question is one I've been meaning to look into for a while now.
As far as I'm concerned the industry's biggest problem right now is a complete lack of originality, mostly stemming from poor writing. So many shows are just obviously written by people who really have no business writing in the first place, considering we have so many shows that reuse the same tired setting (i.e. High School), cliches and tropes.
I'm really curious as to who some of the best writers are in the industry right now, and why we don't have better stories, settings, etc. in anime in general. The medium lends itself very well to some rather creative adaptations, it's just a shame so many studios opt for the safe route of making shit shows to pander to shrinking otaku demographics.
unless you mean specifically dialogue, in which case still it has solid dialogue
Yes, it's literally that terrible.
Not him, nor am I saying LoGH has objectively terrible writing, but such a thing exists. Writing quality isn't subjective.
Its so fucking long because the so called geniuses kept screwing up, that's some mighty good writing
Also I should add one of the biggest surprises for me in terms of writing was Lain. I found it reminiscent of Gibson novels.
I'd second Kaiba with some reservations. I love the otherworldly atmosphere it conveyed and the themes it presented. I feel kind of bad not liking it more because of it's art style though.
while the anime adaptation was, imho, superb in many respects, it is almost impossible to outdo the source material. kudo's Mad Science-bro
I did. I found the writing mediocre at best, so I picked mediocre series that still managed to be better written. You seem to be confusing well written with tries to be deep. Taking chuu2 for example, I think it presented its message better and delivered it more effectively. The character development makes sense and supports the story well. It wasn't ambitious, but it was a solid and well written series that effectively told its story. Though I will be fair and say I'm probably letting factors other than writing influence my opinion, but it's hard to not do that with a visual medium. SSY was certainly more ambitious than many of the series I mentioned, but that doesn't make its writing good.
>geniuses should be infallible
their mistakes all make sense given their personalities
I don't really think LoGH has particularly amazing writing all around, but that isn't one of its problems at all.
Not the ending though.
>Ifeel kind of bad not liking it more because of it's art style though.
That's probably why we are talking about the writing in here.
Serial Experiment Lain describe really good actual society
You're still dodging an explanation on which writing elements in SSY are so bad.
>I'm really curious as to who some of the best writers are in the industry right now, and why we don't have better stories, settings, etc. in anime in general. The medium lends itself very well to some rather creative adaptations, it's just a shame so many studios opt for the safe route of making shit shows to pander to shrinking otaku demographics.
This is not a matter of anime alone. Take a look at books and movies, the safe route is not limited to otaku. Something sells, and producers want creators to do more of the same. Pandering to the masses also tends to be rather unoriginal, following the same old formulas, just switching a little bit here and there. Though I agree that anime is a tad more limited by the teenage protagonists - of course there will be an excessive amount of similar settings (schools). If this would change to include the age range of 20-40, it really opens up more possibilities, at least with regards to the setting.
It doesn't matter about ambition. When you break down the series, SSY tackles far more deep (2deep4u, apparently) subjects than the shit you posted.
Stuff like dehumanization, limits on creative freedom, the flaws of a utopia, and multiple ethics dilemmas. At the same time, it shows how cruel humanity can really be.
On the other hand, Chu2 deals with the idea of escapism; that's basically it. It isn't' even a matter of subjectivity here; SSY IS the better piece of writing.
Yes, they were transformed into the rat people so that Cantus users can kill them without the death feedback from killing things that resemble humans.
It has a level of world building that is unlike any anime I've ever watched, I haven't read the novel itself, but the anime gave me a feeling like I was reading "The Giver" (which intentionally or not, SSY shares a lot of similarities with). It honestly felt like I was watching an animated novel, not an anime.
The reason why the Highschool setting is used is because it as a very easy way to introduce a diverse cast that would otherwise never meet. Even in your job, you're generally paired with like minded people. I wouldn't call using a HS setting lazy writing, it's just the most "realistic" setting to bring together characters.
>Takes an entire day to get to Rikka's house by train and car
>Get there in half a night by bike in the last episode
I liked Chuu2, but I'm not delusional. Chuu's message might have been nice, but the writing was sub-par, and there was more than one gaping plothole. It was definitely entertaining and nice, but let's be honest for a second, it's plot is literally every Nickelodeon show ever.
I like SSY and think it is the best written anime of its year but you're embarrassing yourself here. Your first two sentences contradict each other.
Don't you have the feeling they don't even try anymore? Even if it's not perfect I feel it's important for ambitious shows to come out. It's sad they don't sell at all.
What worries me the more about GuP-tier shows is how shallow the characters are. I realy have the feeling they spend less and less time working on that and it makes the whole show barely watchable.
When they are not overpowered selfinserts, they're pretty close to being retarded. Damn it, I want a show with fucking believable characters
I fail to see how "tackling 'far more deep subjects'" imply the writing is better than something that doesn't do so.
ITT when a shitty anime tries to be deep and have themes it means it is well written
I wasn't asked for one.
It doesn't do any of that very well though. You are, once again, confusing "tries to be deep" with well written. It deals with dehumanization on the same level X-men deals with racism for instance. That isn't very well done at all.
Give me one example where SSY failed at dealing with the issues it presented. Just saying it's bad doesn't mean it is, can you give one example where SSY's writing fell short?
It's clear who has actually seen the show and who hasn't.
The sole fact that there were only a few relevant named in this thread proves how good Shinsekai Yori is.
I would add:
Higurashi no Naku Koro ni
Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku
Eureka 7 has a ton of underlying messages but you have to go past the ep 21 and it still below SSY
Higurashi is not well written in the same sense, there is not really any important message but it is well constructed
For Ima, Soko ni Iru Boku it's a bit like Eureka 7 it fully use the anime medium to convey a quite powerful message
All in all SSY has to be one of the best piece of art.
Its reflection about the balance between humanity and dehumanization that a society has to keep in order to persist is really, really well done.
Oops, misread what the /a/non asked. Could you provide one? I liked SSY and am curious.
>Ask the anime board about literary merit; what can go wrong?
>flavor of the month shit
Christ, I'm laughing my ass off. Try Patlabor or anything besides what you've listed, you fucking faggots.
You don't see how dealing with dehuminization by literally making people into ratmen is badly done? In fact I'd say it's worse than simply having ratmen who were ratmen from the start and then exploring whether they should count as people.
Oh and the first Gundam serie is quite good
b-but Patlabor is slice of life and comedy most of the time it can't be well written. Only anime with derpy art styles and hamfisted themes are well written.
"good writing" is almost a buzzword.
Seriously, what the fuck.
Original settings, lore?
Unexpected plot twists?
Lack of plotholes and inconsistencies?
Meaningful themes and symbols?
Seriously, what the fuck does it even mean?
But Madoka actually is well written.
I'll probably get blasted for this but here are my thoughts on the best written series.
Bakemonogatari and Katanagatari. Both take a genre of story and examine elements within it, dialogue is most of the story so the writing basically carries it.
Toradora. Lot's of great extended metaphors, clever plotting, other than the clusterfuck of being cornered by their friends, most scenes are very good.
Higurashi. Extremely well thought out over-arching plot. Obviously the VN is better, but the anime translation is very well written and it works.
Kara no Kyoukai. Very clever structure to the story and good dialogue.
SSY. Very much reminds me of the Giver combine with Brave New World.
Code Geass. Quite a lot of twists and turns. Good themes.
Mushishi. Hinges entirely on writing.
Gosick. Sort of falls a bit short because of the pandering to typical tsundere tropes. Good though.
It wasn't poorly handled because it drove the point home hard. Your suggestion has been explored many times before and wouldn't fit in SSY's story.
I means I LIK IT.
Saya no Uta was nice. F/0 wasn't so bad either.
what you want isn't "buzzword" but I forget the word right now. think it starts with a p and "good" is one of them - a word so nebulous it doesn't really mean anything and it has instead become an abstract concept whose meaning is based on a universal value (noone dislikes "good")
Yup. Well written.
It doesn't though, it just makes it obvious you can't into allegory. Besides, "they're actually human" is pretty much the most over used way to make something deep in fiction.
Am I the only fanboy here?
Let's try this: A show with an emphasis on the writing, examples are an unusual or elaborate plot, interesting characters or good dialogue.
You know Another was adapted from a novel right? And it doesn't matter how good the original text was, SSY was adapted like shit. They cut so much important characterization and the entire ending made no sense. I mean how critical on a scale of 1 to FUBAR would you call a confession scene where two characters admit they've fallen in love with each other if the ending features them getting married and having a kid? Because A-1 thought that was shit. Now it makes it look like Saki's a stupid bitch who fucked the last guy standing because she doesn't know what to do anymore. The ending was so much more hopeless and actually portrayed Squealer as righteous when he was a xenocidal asshole who wanted to rule the world by slaughtering and enslaving his own people. That's the kind of person you think is well written for being a martyr preaching about humane treatment.
Why don't you stop trying?
You stupidly think something needs to be unusual or elaborate to be well written. Yotsuba& is better written that the try hard shit you guys are praising. And it is simple as fuck.
It does though because it really does change the viewer's perspective on all the events that occurred. And even if something is commonly used, that isn't a knock if it is used well, which I'd argue is the case here.
you could potentially say bakemonogatari for dialogue, depending on what "good" dialogue is
Man, I gotta finish SSY
All you plebeians can go home now.
Is there a show that's written well, but sucks in other aspect like animation, art, and direction? Is that possible?
Unusual or elaborate plots are overrated.
meh it was ok
Why does that change your perspective though? The words "we're human," when it's already clear they're sapient beings with human level intelligence are pretty irrelevant.
maybe a mix of some or all of them?
It's illogical and that is what is beautiful about it. The one small detail helps illustrate how much of a difference the empty title of "human" has on other humans.
You could argue that certain adaptations have well-written source material. In film and animation it's hard to completely separate writing and direction from each other, even if the two roles are given to different people in the credits. A show with a good script but poor direction will usually seem like it has bad writing.
You can better portray that by just having them another group of humans. The only reason to do it that way is to have a twist for the sake of having a twist when you reveal it. But that doesn't work as a twist, because either way they're still sapient beings. But then maybe that;s me growing up watching shit like Star Trek where the aliens were always still people regardless of what they looked like even if some were better developed than others.
It doesn't have the same effect. I'm sure the vast majority of the audience were rooting for the protagonists until that twist, at which point they stared to question the morality of the events that just took place.
Even if they were sapient beings to begin with, revealing that they were biologically human once and were forcibly altered has an irrationally strong effect.
Stuff like this has always bothered me too but it's the way the world works.
In the news you hear, "4 Americans and 15 others were killed in a bombing" as if I'm supposed to care more about the 4 than the rest. Maybe for some people it works that way, but not me.
>sell guns to mexican cartels
>300+ killed with said guns
Relying on the audience having a warped sense of morality where it's ok to mistreat sapient beings because they aren't the same species is pretty poor writing. Plus, it's unnecessary to do so. Humans can be cruel to other humans just fine.
Warped sense of morality? That's just how humans work. People empathize more with those they could relate or feel close to.
Let me rephrase that a bit, it's ok to mistreat sapient beings because they aren't the same species but make them human and suddenly it's a bad thing.
People can relate and feel close to a tin can that beeps occasionally.
>Went to America
>Tried to watch the news on the TV
>All they ever showed were niggers mugging or whatever fucking scandal some hollywood star was involved
>No international news
Yes, that is exactly how humans work. Isn't it ugly?
>Faust rip off
So is this a SSY thread now?
I agree, Saya no Uta is actually pretty damn good, if not one of the better VNs
Yes. Post best ship.
There are a few well written manga, but the average novel has better writing.
I was actually expecting the final reveal of SSY to be way more intense.
The twist I expected was that they were only seeing the rat people as rats because of their genetic modifications. Like basically, the people they were seeing as rat creatures actually looked 100% human.
At the end I was expecting it to break and when Squealer shouts "I am human" I expected the protagonist to see Squealer as he actually was-- a 100% human looking character. Then to flash-back to all of the events with the ratpeople replaced with humans.
The way they ended it with them just being modified humans... it left too much room to allow for dehumanization to dull the way the audience would feel.
Madoka was a major commercial success. It did a good job of capitalizing on the unnaturally large amount of hype by utilizing early shock value as a hook, however it doesn't excel in anything and overall has pretty low lasting value as a work of fiction. It's not a series that can be praised for depth, complexity, or rewatchability.
It isn't though. It's a misunderstanding of how humans work. It's us vs them. Whether one is human or not is incidental to whether one is an us or a them.
Except you're wrong.
Some good taste there.
I would say LOGH and GITS SAC. I really love how smooth and sometimes believable characters are, Togusa, Batou, monkey man, but fuck the major she is boring.
I don't think Monogatari gets enough credit. People probably tend not to notice because of the comedy and ecchi, but Nisio is extremely self-aware when writing it and fills the story with subtleties and hints.
Monogatari's story telling is top notch. In Mayoi's introductory arc, the moment we discover Senjougahara could never see her is still of of my favorite moments in anime.
I got to say it for SSY, I have never seen dehumanization feel so natural and normal. Every representation of it always feels forced or unnatural.
You have that completely backwards though.
It's really hard to be a "fan" of Texhnolyze.
Hell, it's hard to even say you "enjoyed" the series. It's not really a series you watch to enjoy or feel good about life. Not that it's bad in the slightest, but goddamn did I feel like a sack of shit after finishing it.
Unusual/elaborate plots =/= good writing. In fact, more often than not it's the simpler plots that end up being good, since the more elaborate you make your plot the better the chances are of there being serious plot holes somewhere along the line, or your entire plot just ending up being a complete trainwreck.
Higurashi, if you're counting the anime and not the VN which was superbly written, would be a good contender if it sticked more with the human aspect like the VN did rather than LOL killer lolis.
What you saw the rats and thought "Yeah, those are people and deserve that same rights and treatment as I"? Got a better example?
Depends on what news station you watched.
This is why I'll never watch Texhnolyze.
Or read Punpun.
Or Boys on the Run...
I second this and I would also say that Planetes is definitely up there as well.
But he isn't. It's only a timeless classic if the only thing you've seen before it is fucking K-on!
I'm still in awe at how much can be drawn from the show even after watching it multiple times -- among anime originals it's probably the most narratively efficient and well-developed/written stories I've seen. It juggles everything from the characterization of the city (and later the surface), its factions and all of its themes just about all at once, and it does it absurdly well. It's why I listed it here in the first place -- it's probably my favourite among all of Konaka's scripts and Hamasaki's directing really ties it together perfectly.
I still feel like there's a very positive message beneath all the layers of despair and suffering though, what with the unique serenity that you get with the ending.
You thought they didn't because they don't look human?
The major is kind of boring but I think that's mostly because she lacks any strong characterisation. I'd lump her in with characters like Alucard, or Judge Dredd (from the new, actually good Dredd movie). She's more of a force than a person. Similar to Hellsing you could think of Victoria as filling the role of the MC more so than Alucard since she actually has some character development, and she has to react and adapt to the world that Alucard lives hue in. Not trying to say that Hellsing has great writing, just giving an example. Characters like Motoko aren't necessarily bad though, it really just depends on how well the other characters play off of them, or how a character like Motoko might act as more of a sounding board for the other characters actually developing throughout the story.
I thought they were semi-intelligent rats, and that's what the majority of them were. Shitty thing to say know but by the end of it I couldn't think of them as human. Still waiting for a better example of dehumanization, but I know you ain't got shit.
It's definitely a good show and the writing was certainly well done. I think I have more of an issue with the pacing of the show, but that's another story.
As you described though, the way it's written it makes Lux and the surface world characters in their own right, and there was some beautiful imagery on the surface, that was straight out of an Edward Hopper painting. http://guriguriblog.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/texhnolyze-2/
Regardless, it was a very good show, but it's also one of those examples of a show that you watch because you want to challenge yourself on some level (emotionally more so for this show), rather than just come away from it feeling fuzzy.
I think you mistook this for the "ITT: Overrated shit" thread.
I want to pick this up; manga or anime?
I think you're kind of playing right into that anon's example.
>Start reading Punpun a few months ago.
>5 volumes in, start feeling depressed
>Almost drop out of uni again.
I don't think I'll finish it in a while.
You should watch and read all of those because you are scared to.
>terrible writing when it comes to any kind of tactical or combat scene.
The portrayal in the anime does bog down (caused by sailing through battles at breakneck pace) but for the most part everything they say makes perfect sense.
I'm sorry but you'd be bored by a dissertation on Astarte, so the anime breezes through it.
Those most ignorant are the quickest to criticize LoGH battles. It's comprised of really elementary stuff.
The tactics are so elementary they can't be wrong.
Chokepoints, Formations maintained or broken, Charges, Retreats, Breakthroughs, Encirclements, and their soft effects on the soldiers themselves.
You've read too many joke infographics featuring semi circles and not enough Clausewitz.
i can only comment on the anime, but I had a tough time getting into it but then I couldn't stop.
Hanasaku Iroha and Hyouka
I actually started on each of them. (Aside from Texhnolyze.)
I fucked off from Punpun right after the first timeskip when I realized that, no, these kids' lives were not going to get better. They were going to be miserable forever and there was nothing I could do about it.
Boys on the Run I was baited into because it's the same author as I Am a Hero but then I remembered where I recognized the name "Aoyama" from thanks /a/ and promptly pussied right the fuck out. (It was at the part where that sneaky bastard suggests the double date. I could already tell I didn't like where things were going even before remembering the shitstorm a few months ago.)
Anything that doesn't take the term literally like that. That's what makes it bad.
Anyone here read homunculous? I read it first and Punpun Gave me the same kinda feels...