So at the end are Shinji and Asuka supposed to be Adam and Eve? Do they repopulate and rebuild earth? Is all of Eva actually the far past?
>trying to make sense out of eva
its just random shit anno thought was cool without any thought put into it
Every day, man.
They're gonna explain that in Rebuild (sequel theory)
Something like that. Eva was influenced by 50s and 60s sci fi, as well as 70s and 80s anime that shared that influence. One of the most common tropes of that period was the "new Adam and Eve" story. So yeah, Anno might have been going for that.
Shinji and Asuka as the new Adam and Eve? Could work given that Rei is already Lilith.
>influenced by 50s and 60s sci fi
That's putting it lightly.
Yes, influenced. It doesn't draw too heavily on any one story (Childhood's End shares the most similarities, but who knows if Anno or anyone at Gainax ever read that) but instead draws from the cultural millieu of an entire generation of science fiction.
So is the Tang heaven?
Eva happened in 2014 dude. They probably fucked a lot eventually though.
But Kaworu is also Adam
>Eva was influenced by 50s and 60s sci fi
The only 50s-60s sci-fi movie I can see NGE being inspired by is 2001: A Space Odyssey, and maybe all those weird monster movies that were on MST3K a lot.
how do you know their 2014 is the same as our 2014?
Also, notice how nowhere in the series do they ever make any reference to christianity in the dialog? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST YET
EoE and Childhoods End has a lot in common.
I'd say it's more an easternized compilation of Golden Age/New Wave sci-fi than a work that only drew influence. Not necessarily a bad thing and it might have been totally independently arrived at but none of the themes in Eva are original or new.
I'm talking literature, not just books.
Also, British sci fi tv shows.
They probably lived their lives in seclusion waiting for other people to come back.
In time people, the strong willed like Asuka, will start coming back. Since LCL makes you immortal we'd probably have an immortal shinji and asuka leading humanity back from extinction.
You basically just repeated what I said in your own words.
NERV is shaped like a pyramid. People always wonder how ancient Egyptians were able to build the pyramids with their limited technology. I'm not saying that NERV HQ is actually supposed to be an Egyptian pyramid, but it could certainly be seen as a bit of symbolism pointing towards your idea of Eva occuring in the "far past."
But anon, it got rek'd.
>"Get in the fucking robot, HAL!"
>"I'm sorry, Gendo. I'm afraid I can't do that."
I'm not disagreeing with your premise, but there's a difference between drawing influence and more or less copy pasting. It's a subtle distinction that's hard to make clear.
Yeah, I know. I'm not saying there's anything to it other than the far-fetched possibility that the shape chosen for NERV HQ (a pyramid) was intentional for symbolic purpose by Anno. God knows the guy's come up with much crazier crap in Eva, so it's a possibility worth mentioning.
>Yes, influenced. It doesn't draw too heavily on any one story but instead draws from the cultural millieu of an entire generation of science fiction.
>I'd say it's more an easternized compilation of Golden Age/New Wave sci-fi than a work that only drew influence.
You literally said the same thing, so of course you're not disagreeing with his premise.
I'm arguing it does draw heavily on individual stories. A lot of aspects of it could have been lifted right from the pages of earlier works.
The only original thing EVA did was Rei, along with it's way of telling the story.
Hence it's the only thing that didn't stick as cliche.
god i wish there were a scan of that
you mean, there's no .epub of that? i would like to read it, i'm looking at good reviews right now..
>you mean, there's no .epub of that?
a what now?
>not knowing what .epub means
Isn't Kaworu supposed to be Adam, though?
It wouldn't make sense, unless..
Shinji and Kaworu are the same person!
They're not the same person, but Anno's said that Kaworu is supposed to be an idealized self that Shinji wishes he could be.
...Shinji has some really questionable ideals.
>What!? HAL 01? It's gone berserk!
What do you mean? Kaworu's confident, at ease with himself, and can give affection freely, unlike Shinji who locks it all away out of insecurity.
Obviously I'm talking before Shinji finds out he's an Angel and all.
>Kaworu's confident, at ease with himself, and can give affection freely, unlike Shinji who locks it all away out of insecurity.
a questionable ideal, describes a backalley prostitute just as well.
Those aren't good things in themselves. People who just give affection freely, without thinking about what their affection will do or even if people want it, they're not very ideal. There's a time and place for everything, and Kaworu is someone who lacks smarts and will.
People are entitled to their own ideals, but Shinji's ideal sucks as anything else but a convenient fantasy limited to a few things.
I'm sorry that the first person that comes to your mind with these qualities is a backalley prostitute.
>Dat ad hominen argument
Seriously, that's like saying people shouldn't start small businesses because that would make them enterprising and good businessmen, because successful drug dealers are good businessmen.
I'm just saying that like the backalley prostitute, it's a very loose thing.
That wasn't ad-hominem, it was a pointed comparison.
Ad-hominem (again, pointed extreme) looks like this: LOL u got BUTTMADE because u cant GET IT UP TO ANYTHING BUT BOYZ LOL get rekt FAGOT
What you talked about in your post isn't a comparison, it's a non-sequiteur.
Again the point is that Shinji's ideal is very egoistic and loose.
This guy got it: >>100116689
He hasn't thought out his ideal very much.
This, EVA has always been tryhard deepshit that has been given more acclaim than it's worth.
But the point is that he only wants to add those to his own personality. Imagine a shinji all the same but with those added qualities. That's what he wants to be. Not JUST those qualities, but a shinji with them.
You need real bait to fish in these waters.
Then it's not a complete ideal, or even an ideal.
Isn't that what Kaworu is though?
He's everything Shinji is with those added traits previously mentioned.
Example: Shinji doesn't have the 'courage' to end his life, despite sometimes wanting to. Kaworu has the 'courage' to end his life, and wants to just like Shinji.
Only proves the opposite point: Shinji has fucked up ideals if Kaworu is his ideal.
Can't respect that.
I imagine because Shinji is young and inexperienced with people, he'd just assume all those things are good without giving it much thought.
Shinji doesn't want to die at any point he just doesn't care if he lives.
It fits since Kaworu is pretty much a childish fantasy.
In Kaworu's case it is courage though. He doesn't end his life out of grief, but so that SEELE's plans for him are thwarted and mankind has the chance to avoid extinction. He knows it is the only way and faces it calmly, rather than say, running away.
How is it not an ideal? I mean, you wouldn't want to trade places entirely with some famous rockstar, just grab those aspects that you want the most, for example music skils and charisma, while remaining true to yourself. How is that not an ideal?
Throught history people have looked up towards great leaders, and sure, there were some that wanted to replace themselves fully with those great people, but the vast majority just wanted to get better only those qualities they seen so much better in those leaders and great people.
How is that not striving to an ideal?
I think that's the point.
Kaworu only seems perfect on the surface, yet he's just as flawed and 'fucked up' as Shinji.
Though you may not agree with Shinji's choice for ideal, it's very realistic for a boy his age to want to be something that isn't actually good.
I think he contemplates suicide around 3 times in the show, this being one of those scenes when he's sitting over the ledge.
He just can't bring himself to do it.
>hoping Rebuild contaminates the original
Evangelion a shit
Makes sense why he's shallow 2damax
It's different, since the idea is that Kaworu would embody the entirety of Shinji's ideal. One comes before the other, in the case you speak of, you're inspired and awed. You're getting into a role model more than ideal here though.
He also states in one of the internal monologues that he doesn't really want to die. I'm gonna have to call speculation on him considering suicide despite the implications of the scene.
Will the FAR ever be explained?
Then I must not know what the precise definition of an ideal is though.
But I'd have to agree with this guy the most >>100117637.
I agree that I don't think he wants to die, but he contemplates using suicide as a way to run away from his problems, yet cannot muster up the will to do it.
We're all in agreeal, that Shinji's ideal is a questionable one.
Kaworu a shit, thus if Kaworu being Shinji's ideal is true, Shinji's ideal also a shit.
That is irrelevant.
Shinji is young and impressionable, he didn't know better.
Because nobody liked NGE/EoE anyway, evafags only like projecting their own power fantasies on Eva so the actual plot was an obstacle. That's why Eva is a story that repeated itself, the fandom is still butthurt after more than 15 years
Don't need to be. Anno's given us enough supplemental information to explain what Lilith and Adam were, what the Spears are for, and why they are on Earth. Beyond that is unnecessary.
I'd agree with that. He wants a way out but doesn't actually want to die. Although I'd say it's less he can't follow through and more it was never really an option for him because he had no desire to end his life.
>Shinji's ideal is a questionable one
What's your point? Shinji is 14 years old, it is realistic for his character to think of Kaworu as an ideal, who is really just as broken as Shinji.
>Kaworu a shit
Take your hate out of the discussion. You aren't contributing anything now, just bashing characters.
I think the lost decade's generation actually liked Eva as it was but the industry shift toward moe at lat 90s/early 2000s, when Japan get used to live on a perennial recesion rather than having hopes of saving the nation.
The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth
When is that scene? The episode Shinji runs away and ends up camping with glasses?
He's right though, what are you getting upset about?
Yeah, that's the one.
Yeah, just before he meets up with Kensuke. I forget which episode, I think around 3-6.
It just seemed like he was implying Shinji should have been portrayed as having valid ideals, but if that were the case it wouldn't do justice to the character, which should have questionable ideals to maintain realism.
The Tang is transcending humanity and individuality for a collective existence devoid of pain and suffering, so sure, why not call it heaven