What are the pros and cons of Blender?
Pros - Good modeling toolsCons - Everything else
perfectly fine program just that 1% of studios use it
>>659410If in an highly competitive capitalist environment only 1% of studios use a software that costs nothing, then there must be a solid reason for that.
>>659411the same reason people use windows
Pros: good modelling, sculpting, and animation workflow. Animation is supported by the dope sheet and graph editor system, which has all sorts of interpolation options. Supports volumetrics, OSL, and, with 2.8, has a realtime rendering engine. Free. Cons: Simulations are high quality, but have little interactivity between systems, e.g. fluid and rigid body. Barely any studios use blender for literally no reason other than because it's unfamiliar.
we can talk about pros and cons of out-of-the-box features. but at the end of the day, no real artist uses the original software as intended.so to your question: yes blender is missing a few nuts and bolts here and there, but so does maya.
Pros: it's freeCons: everything else
Pro: it's freeCon: /3/
>>659410>>659412>>659413>>659417>>659424Keep believing this you cucks. Here are real, unfixable cons:- No C++ API whatsoever (equivalent to OpenMaya / OpenMaya2)- No ability to create custom GUI or OpenGL calls from Python (equivalent to Qt for Python)- GPL license means corporations will not touch binary plugins without hardcore firewalls (see: shitty gimped renderman & octane, no crowd sim plugins, will never have Houdini Engine)- No rigging evaluation graph. Unable to write custom formulas or expressions in character rigs. Single thread bound rig evaluation.If you don't understand why these are such crucial, fatal flaws you need to read up before shitting up this board with your Blender fanboyism. Take this list back with you to Blenderartists.
>>659413>Barely any studios use blender for literally no reason other than because it's unfamiliar.Because it's lacking. The UV tools are the worst out of every major package and you have to rely on third party plugins to bridge the gap. The retopo tools are ass and outdated (especially compared to Maya and Modo) so you have to rely on retopoflow 2 which is third party.I don't think blendlets understand that as long as the software doesn't come with officially supported tools, blender won't be a viable alternative.If third party devs drop support on tex tools, uv packmaster, retopoflow, so on so forth, you'll be screwed. You'll be left with your vanilla software with the worst UV tools, the worst retopo tools and horrible shitty rigging tools.
where can i find pirated blender addons?
>>659427Because blendlets almost never have the required skills to understand how lacking blender is in almost every aspect except modeling.Take the uv tools for exemple. Blendlets think they are genius simply because of the unwrap algorithm (which is good, let's face it, but so is Modo's and Houdini's). But they don't understand that the packing algorithm is terrible, doesn't take nearly enough space as it should, the complete lack of stack similar options (that are ESSENTIAL), missing options such as UV relax (the sculpt relax makes things worse) that are not even available in tex tools.Blender just isn't a safe bet. A good 3d software need to come with all these essential things by default instead of relying on unstable third party.
Pros: it's free and good enough.Cons: it's not good enough and you don't get the support that comes with paid software.
>>659427maya does not have:>a functional video editor>a realtime render engine>compositor>over 100 built in plugins>crowd simulationpfffffff hahahaha.what a corporate whore. you know, not every artist works for sharks in the real-estate business holy shit
>>659432Why the focus on Maya? Maya's goal is not to be a do-it-all-3D. If you can to composite, you have Fusion and Nuke. For realtime rendering, you have Marmoset, Unity, or Unreal. And when it comes to plug-ins... oh boy, you don't really want to go there and compare Maya plug-ins with what currently is on offer for Blender.
>>659432Who cares about a video editor in 3d software? Who cares about eevee when we have a direct livelink between Maya and unity/unreal? You have over 100 built in plugins and yet blender is still completely rough and lacking in every aspect except poly modeling.
>>659402It's the best thing until you get in the thousands of dollars a year range.That's it's major problem is it's competition to expensive software that has pretty much been the primary option for years.In 3d as in any art your end result is not determined by the brand of crayons. Also pirates are below blendlets ignore pirate opinions on software.
>>659435>>659436oh now that i attack maya you suddenly get all defensive and shit, ok got it.its OK to SHIT on blender everyday. everyday i come to this shitty forum and there is a thread about how shitty blender is. oh it doesn't have the homosexual UV packing that i like, better take a giant dump on it.ohhhh it doesn't have my favorite scripting method for real hombressssss that use C++ like me better take a giant fucking dump on it.your standards for free software are ridiculous, but when comes time to criticizes your favorite goy software then its not 'ok' since autodesk got a 'deal' with a major supplier of something that does whatever
>>659437There's also modo indie that's 12 a month and is better than blender in every aspect without the need of any plugins.
>>659438I swear you're the incarnation of the typical beyond retarded blendlet.
>>659438>your standards for free software are ridiculousBlendlets keep saying that blender is on par, or even better than pro software. So it's normal for us to have high standards for this software that is supposedly the best thing since sliced bread.
>>659432What does "100 built in plugins" even mean? It's an architectural decision. Maya loads its node editor as part of the main application so there's no node wrangler equivalent. On the other hand, it loads obj's using a plugin and Blender builds that in. Whoa Maya has a "plugin" unavailable in Blender! I'll stick to compositors that respect accurate HDR color space calculations thanks. Did you know Blackmagic Resolve/Fusion is free on Windows Mac and Linux? That's why nobody works on the Blender compositor anymore.Get out of here kid, you're out of your league.
>>659439Oh yeah I like only having the ability to undo and a limit of what I am legally allowed to use the software for. Also the wonderful "we do not provide software support for this version of paid software."
>>659438> Thinking that C++ development is an unimportant niche featureGood luck making Spiderverse you blinded faggot. You know SPI is filing half a dozen parents for the advanced software techniques they developed for that film? It's literally impossible to create a professional pipeline using Blender without a C++ API.
>>659444There is support by the foundry on the steam forums. and the 100 000k limit is not an issue since it's meant for game assets.Aside from that it's better than blender in every aspect.
>>659438>oh it doesn't have the homosexual UV packing that i likeThat the pros need* you fucking ignorant cunt. What if my model has many duplicates, let's say a bunch of bolts or drawers. With proper uv packing I can stack the same UVs on top of each other, giving me plenty of resolution for the rest of the model. Can't do that in blender, these drawers are going to eat a bunch of uv space, leaving less space (and less resolution) for the rest of the model.But of course you're not aware of that because you're a talentless blendlet who is probably using the software for his anime waifus.
>>659427Wagecuck coping hard.
>>659447>can't stack UVs in BlenderImagine being this fucking retarded.
>>659450Show me how to stack similar UVs on top of each other, without third party plugins, I'm waiting.
>>659448blendlet in heavy denial, with no arguments whatsoever.
>>659446Doesn't it also lock your files so only you can access them so you're pretty much stuck to one computer always online for your work? Also what all commands are removed it says all you get is undo and history. And no scripting is an issue. No ability to use plugins. Only 2 exports. >Linux support intentionally gimpedThat's too much right there fuck.>support limited to forums on a subscription serviceDropped.
>>659451If it's all duplicate meshes, you could've had unwrapped it prior to duplicating it a billion times, for starters. That would yield you a perfectly stacked UV. If you chose the retarded path and decide to unwrap after all the duplications, a simple work around that comes to mind is to unwrap them one by one, if they're duplicates they'll all unwrap exactly the same way, filing your UV layout, perfectly stacked. You then scale it to whatever you need it to be.I never even thought about saving the few extra minutes in a similar situation. I've spent time welding UVs for various reasons.
>>659452You're the one throwing a hissy fit like a small child because the free program does not do what YOU want. C++ is so irrelevant, get to the program.
>>659454Wow now you're assuming my type of workflow? I unwrap the mesh before duplicating it. But now when I want to pack the islands of the whole mesh, where's the option to keep the stacked UVs together during the process?
>>659455It's supposed to do what I want because you blendlets sell it as the best 3d software there is, so I expect it to do what every other software does by default.
>>659456It all stays stacked together wtf are you on?>>659457It's amazing for a free software, and does everything we need. It's you wagecucks screeching like harpies because you work as a slave in some faggoty PC hispter office.
>>659459It might do what you need, because you have such low standards, but don't say that it has everything pros need because that's a lie.
>>659459Why do you blendlets hate "wagecucks" so much? Is it because you're jealous because you know your shitty donut app will never land you a job? Without the "wagecucks" you hate so much there would be no video games and no animated movies.
>>659463>there would be no video games and no animated movies.yep, the movie and gaming industry has been losing hundreds of millions for the past 3 years. you see son, wagies have the tendency to inject politics into their games now. like some people say "go woke,get broke".you wagies are mad that asset flips like PUBG are making billions while your'e busy with kissing corporate ass and writing essays about how awesome trannies are.
>>659464this is what awaits wagies
>>659464Only major companies do that crap. Smaller studios couldn't care less about SJW crap.
>>659467Forced diversity was a mistake. Meritocracy is the only valid base for excellence and outstanding products.
>>659467This is what awaits blendies
>>659462You're lazy and inept, can;t even manage to optimize a simple UV layout yourself? You need a program to do it for you? Like holy shit dude.>>659463It's a word to trigger you snowflakes, blendlets are fine making the big bucks being neets on Patreon doing furry porn and SFM animations. Nothing worth a fuck comes out of AAA game or movie studios, if only they could disappear.>muh industry standards!>Muh Black Panther best movie ever!!
>>659468Not him and trying to avoid /pol/ talks outside of pol but it stretches into indie games. Fucking subnautica dedicated to Sandy hook victims and the devs going so far to make people know they don't like guns. Also the way they treated the sound guy because of his opinions
>>659438>oh now that i attack maya you suddenly get all defensive and shit, ok got it.lolwut? I don't use Maya, I dislike Autodesk, that doesn't mean I can't point to basic functionality available in Maya but not in Blender. Get a grip, man.
>>659468http://archive.vn/ZAwDRThey do apparantly.The only game creators I know of which aren't cockgobbling footkissers are from Kingdom Come and Minecraft.
>>659411>a solid reason for that.The same reason new analogue versions of old drugs get used even though the old drugs are safer, equally or more effective and the "new" drug: MARKETING
>>659472Every other software do it for you, because it gets rid of these tedious steps and allows you to spend this time on getting shit done faster. Blender in the meantime is still stuck in 2005.
>>659427>- No C++ API whatsoeverWhy do you need an API when you can literally modify the source code? >- No ability to create custom GUI or OpenGL calls from Python (equivalent to Qt for Python)That's wrong, use PyQT>paid add-onsIt's not the GPL that stops them, paid add-ons are already stolen and redistributed at no effort already>Rigging graphYou're right on that one, also single threaded things in general (scripts, add-ons, etc)
>>659478UV is pretty basic shit, if you can't manage that on your own, that's not Blender's fault. None of you people know how to do shit anymore, you need sculptors to make you models, you need them to retopo, you need them to bake textures, you need another artist to paint textures, that artists needs a UV, then some other clown dances around in a mocap suit, some soulless drones clean up mocap all day... this shit is sad... fucking pathetic bunch of specialists.
>>659483What the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about saving time getting rid of tedious steps. It's already time consuming as it is even with automated tasks. I can already poly model, sculpt, Uv, Retopo, bake and paint textures. These are required skills for any jobs, you don't have baking specialists and retopo specialists. You blendlets are so out of touch with how studios work it's actually fascinating.
>>659486>paint texturesyou must do some fine work... /SARCASM
What are the pros and cons of paint 3d?
>>659471Keep making your shitty games, wagecuck.Blendlets will be ready to mod them into being tolerable and enjoyable, while also making all the 3d porn online you jerk off to when you come home to your empty home.
>>659486most of them outsource the modeling and texturing to a freelancer that actually knows what the fuck hes doing.then you have a giant fucking team of riggers and animators,lightning specialists and TD specialists that do the production work. not to mention those departments are usually full of woman to begin with, so they need double the workforce.look at the production cost of most triple A titles, its in the hundreds of millions.
>>659490Do you realize there are also tons of amazing games made by wagecucks? Do you really think wagecucks only work on shitty assassin's creed and (((battlefield)))?I swear each time you blendlets open your mouths it's to spout crap with crappy arguments. I'm done wasting time with you retards. Enjoy making our games better with your waifu mods lol
>>659492>Tons of amazing gamesI'll be in absolute shock if you can name 5 amazing games from 2018.
this thread (once again) proves that blender users are neurotic and childish fanboys.
>>659493There are plenty of amazing games made by small-medium sized studios. Why 2018? Because games made in the last 5 years don't count?
>>659493All of you're favourite games and CG movies starting from your early childhood were made by ''wagecucks'' as you call them. In the meantime you blendlets never made anything relevant.
>>659495Because it's the year we just ended... jesus. Are you always this conspiratorial? Here, i'll help you.-Kingdom Come Deliverance-God of War -Octopath-Red Dead 2-Pillars of Eternity 2Had to hop between 3 different consoles to find something worth a fuck, but I did it.
>>659496Ironically enough, Jurassic Park has better CGi than most of today's movies. Even those by Disney/Marvel the biggest media company to ever exist. CG is shit tier today.
>>659497To be honest, Blender was probably used in all of those.
>>659481Oh my god, have you ever even talked to a software developer before in your life or are you just making shit up like a typical Blender child?> "Oh, you don't need a stable API, just recompile the application from source!" Great, I look forward to having to learn how to read Blender's disgusting internal C codebase (C++ is only used in a few places, everywhere else is horrifying C) and downloading & building ALL of the dependencies for Blender just so I can make a plugin. What a great time! Do they even have instructions on how to build Blender for windows? Or is it cross-compile only? Meanwhile building a Maya plugin is a one-click download SDK, and you can be up and running in 20 minutes. I'm sure that's a hell of a lot better than trying to build all of Maya yourself, since I bet compiling Maya takes two or three hours!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfQGYI1pLPkThat's just *getting started.* If you're modifying the source code, you have to maintain a branch with your own modifications and if anything upstream changes, you're fucked. Any random ass change in the commit log can destroy everything. Meanwhile, a real API like Maya offers gives developers a documented set of features they can rely on. And now as of Maya 2018, Maya promises API *and ABI stability* indefinitely into the future. You write your plugin once, compile it once, and it will continue to work for years. http://help.autodesk.com/view/MAYAUL/2018/ENU/?guid=__files_GUID_C122F8DA_431C_4094_BA54_60B80495A734_htm> It's not the GPL that stops themIf I wrote a $10,000 plugin like Ziva I sure as shit wouldn't be interested in porting to Blender and releasing the source code under the GPL, lmao > PyQtAwesome, a janky ass chimera GUI for Blender with Python-only access and no official support. Good job Blender! Let me know when you can dock Qt widgets into the Blender frame!
Trying to explain to Blendlets the shortcomings of Blender is a waste of time. The only good that may come out of it is saving some newbies from falling for the meme and entering the Blender cult, and even so I'm not really sure it is working.
>>659517like the guy above me said, your'e a lazy bum. lets say you get a job in the industry and suddenly you face an issue like this, or of any kind. will you go to your boss and try to explain to him why you need a proper sdk toolkit? he doesn't give 1 inch of a fuck. he hired you to get the job done. this is the reality of the 'industry' you people like to talk so much about. you are hired to solve problems too, is that seem too fucked up for you? you millenials think that every job is going to provide you with silk gloves and protective glasses, well it fucking won't. same applies to the UV nigger above. no one gives a shit, if you can't pull that off in blender and you need maya. and when maya have a shortcoming YOU will be the one that have to work your way around it
>>659528You moved the goalpost so fast it broke in a million pieces and the rigid body solver crashed Blender.
>>659552im protesting the overall sentiment of your argument. because so far i haven't heard of such issues, and iv answered over 100 questions
>>659459No they don't stay on top of each other, they get separated. This is why the UV packmaster addon exists in the first place, because blender devs can't bother to improve core functionnality. They prefer to focus on fancy useless stuff to impress their retarded fanbase.
>>659617like i said, if your'e discontent with blender. it might be time to continue with maya.seems like uv packing is the feature that you need
>>659619I'm not discontent with blender, it's free so of course it's not as good as commercial solutions. I'm discontent with it's horrible fanbase that keep saying blender is going to take over the industry because it so much better than everything else.
>>659620Amateurs devs are taking over the industry, with Blender. Call that what you want. And as far as UV goes, I have no idea about what process you lazy cunts are talking about. UV layouts and UV mapping is such a small part of any project, so little time consuming and such little of a hassle, I don;t need some function or AI to figure it out for me. I'll just do it in a few minutes.Heck, unlike you "professionals" you can just hand me some textures and i'll unwrap my models and make them fit flawlessly.
>>659629>Amateurs devs are taking over the industry, with Blender.Thanks for the chuckle, delusional blendlet.
>>659634>(((Game industry))) losing hundreds of millions.>Shitty phone apps making hundreds of millions.>Delusion
>>659635Shitty phone apps always sold a lot. I'm talking about real 3d games here. Indie devs are still using Maya LT, Houdini Indie, Modo indie, and cracked autodesk versions. Blendlets are only taking over the shitty horror game sections on itch.io and steam.
>>659636You do understand inertia? Mainstream industry programs are customized and have millions of dollars poured into by those companies, they are virtually stuck with whichever program they chose to adopt. Blender doesn't have that luxury. But just as Bethesda can't make a game worth a fuck, they can make the framework, the sandbox in which the real artists can come and thrive, do some work and make the games exponentially better. Those are the hobbyists, the blendlets. You industryfags underestimate the sheer numbers of people that are far more talented and well rounded, not like you single purpose replaceable drones.
>>659477No amount of marketing from Microsoft has been able to displace Linux, a free software, from the dominant position in the high performance computing market. The same goes for Internet servers, where Linux is by far the preferred option.
>>659640This has to be bait.
>>659646No counter argument... quick deflect!
>>659629Would you like to map this manually? >>659624
>>659647Offer proof for this, then perhaps someone will take you seriously:>You industryfags underestimate the sheer numbers of people that are far more talented and well rounded, not like you single purpose replaceable drones.
>>659402 (OP)Pros:>Free, can make commercial products and freelance with it without spending a dime.Cons:>Godawful interface and steep learning curveif you can overcome that, it's pretty good depending what you're using it for. I use it for making 3d models for game mods and custom maps...I switched from 3ds max and had a hard time learning it, but now i prefer it.if you're going into games biz, learn 3ds max.
>>659653how does maya compare to max for game shit? i would have figured that the rigging tools in it are pretty valuable for games with complex monsters and stuff.
>>659655Didn't really get into Maya. From what i researched, however, maya is aimed primarily at animators, while 3ds max is for modelers. Which is weird to me because they both have all the features required for either... tldr; Didn't use maya.
>>659654Blender is playing on hard mode. Now with 2.8 it'll be a much better bootcamp for moving forward in the industry.
>>659649Have you been asleep for years? Ever seen the modding community for Bethesda games, GTA games, 2nd life games, The Sims, etc...?And don't get me started on porn.
>>659437How so? Is it because they don't want to support the utterly retarded practices that companies like Autodesk implement?
>>659640I almost never see talented blendlets, compared to talented Maya and Modo users. And I don't care if we're drones, at least we're making games you enjoy playing. Blender wasn't mainly used on a single real game since the dawn of times. All of your favourite games were made by "wageslaves" using Softimage, Max and Maya.That why you hate the industry so much, you know you'll never get a job because studios know blender isn't worth a damn. There are no artists that wouldn't want to make a living out of their art.
>>659725I could get in any studio I want, not only because of my contacts in the industry, but by living in close proximity to all major studios imaginable. I'm in Montreal.I could work at Ubisoy without any qualifications. But fuck that faggot PC culture HR hellhole. I'd rather work as a janitor than suffer a single day in a gaming studio.
>>659735Tu pourrais pas travailler avec blender dans un studio criss de cave. Arrive dans le studio avec blender sur une clé usb pour voir. T'aura même pas le droit de la brancher sur un PC. Pis si tu travaille sur une scène et que tu tombe malade ou que t'es en congé, ils vont faire comment les autres artistes pour continuer ta scène si ils savent pas utiliser blender? I hope you understand now, It's not easy to break free from the blender delusion but I'm willing to help.
>>659668its so hard to tell which blendlet posts are sincere and which are bait
>>659761They're all sincere, blendlets are too retarded to bait.
>>659657>From what i researched, however, maya is aimed primarily at animators, while 3ds max is for modelers. Which is weird to me because they both have all the features required for either... that used to be the case before autodesk started flushing max down the toilet and moving it's features to mayaI expect them to be merged along with mudbox at some point
>>659762I defend Blender from time to time, just for the lulz.
>>659760Tout les programmes sont essentiellement pareils. Blender c'est juste le plus difficile à adopter, le moins pratique, et le plus manuel. Tu peux pas chier sur un programme et ses utilisateurs quand ils travaillent deux fois plus que toi pour un même résultat.Nobody ever said anything about working for big companies on Blender. Skills translate from program to program bucko. Those big expensive programs that companies keep upgrading and doing R&D on would simply hold my hand and do a bunch of stuff Blender can't do for me. It would only make everything easier.
>>659782>Skills translate from program to program bucko.Not when the program you train in is functionally limited in comparison to the software used at studios.Your point holds for modeling, where Blender is comparable to Maya or 3ds, but not much beyond that.
>>659782Skill cannot translate if tools are missing. This is why blendlets rely on so many third party addons for functionnality that is part of every other software. Without retopoflow, textools, uv packmaster, autorigpro, FLIP fluids and the likes, blender is nothing.
>>659809>This is why blendlets rely on so many third party addonnope. compared to the clusterfuck of addons in Adobe and Autodesk Software blender foundation is riding the best route so far.
>>659717Why would I trust someone telling me to buy something they haven't even bought?"Just steal it" also isn't a real response to any critique of the cost of the product. And yes its fucking stealing from the company if you do anything that could bring you profit with illegal acquired software.>inb4 someone calls me a corporate bootlicker If you think this way you're no better than a chink stealing American trademarks and patents to make money.Pic unrelated
>>659810There are around 100 addons included in blender, most of which cover really basic functionnality such as UV layout export. Try harder blendie.
>>659812fuck I messed up my post (i'm replying to myself right now)I didn't mean to greentext that inb4, i'm not quoting you and don't want to confuse you. My bad
I want to get into sculpting, but Zbrush's $895 price tag is very intimidating. Can Blender see me through?
>>659819just get zbrush
>>659809>>659808The core dynamics of 3d modelling, knowing proper topology, how to work with loops, rigging, knowing when and where to use tris, UV unwrapping, keyframe animations, shapekeys, lighting, weight painting, etc... it's all the same. I really don't understand the fixation with UVs. I've never had any problems with UVs in Blender, and I don't mind putting in the extra few minutes if it means I get the layout the way I want, and not the way an algorithm judges is optimal. You gotta think of the poor bastard that will have to texture your UVs facing all directions just for the sake of optimization. I'd rather have neat UV's with proper gaps and everything right side up.
>>659819You probably need the computing power of the hadron collider in order to sculpt at 10% of Zbrush's capability in Blender.
>>659822>I really don't understand the fixation with UVsBecause it's just as important as the modeling part.I do have problems with UVs. The packing algorithm doesn't keep stacked UVs (from duplicates) together, this wastes a shitload of resolution. This is why I'd need uv packmaster, and if the third party devs discontinued it I'd be screwed. Blender doesn't have proper uv relaxing which is super important for organic stuff.>>659822>The core dynamics of 3d modelling, knowing proper topology, how to work with loops, rigging, knowing when and where to use tris, UV unwrapping, keyframe animations, shapekeys, lighting, weight painting, etc... it's all the same.I'm talking about the tools here. Blender's tools for all of these (except modeling, which is good I admit) are lacking. This is why blender users always need to come up with a bunch of time wasting workarounds that could be avoided by using proper software.
>>659822There's no fixation with UVs. It's just an example of an essential piece of 3DCG for which basic tools are still missing in Blender. There are other things, like UDIM, that are important and yet take ages to be implemented in Blender, if they ever are.Seriously, it's not that I dislike Blender, on the contrary, I like it. But I'm quite pissed to see that the devs go for eye candy instead of solving more pressing issues.
>>659402pros: it's got everything and it's freecons : few studios use it
>>659849>I'm quite pissed to see that the devs go for eye candy instead of solving more pressing issues.Yeah at least with autodesk we get neither
>>659836>This is why blender users always need to come up with a bunch of time wasting workaroundsi had to interject here.99% of my models work in unity,UE4 and even other engines with rigs,animation and everything. your'e full of shit, please stop posting here
>>659812>And yes its fucking stealing from the company if you do anything that could bring you profit with illegal acquired software.Autodesk doesn'r give two shits if the average joe pirates their shit, because they know they can't afford it to begin with unless they got very deep pockets (which most of /3/ does not). Plus they own everything you make under the Education License, which is fucking bullshit if you ask me.They're more than willing to go after the companies that pirate the software though. Because that's where the real money lies. And those are the people who have no real excuse.To some, "Just steal it" is the only response, because Autodesk's a pile of shit that can own you. It's not always the cost that's the issue, it's usually "Don't support a company filled with retarded policies with your money". Hence why people either pirate or they go with Blender.
>>659873>Plus they own everything you make under the Education License, which is fucking bullshit if you ask me.Please stop spreading false information on our humble board. Thanks!
>>659872It's virtually impossible to send animations from blender to unreal. Feel free to visit the unreal forums and use the search function, there's at least a thread a day about some poor guy who can't properly send his animation to unreal. You're the one who's full of shit. You can't admit that your amateur toyish software sucks dicks.
>>659907no, its full of retarded people.i looked it up, people have been importing animations to unreal since 2015- that's almost 5 years ago.i know its hard to admit your own retardation, but its literally how you learn to do stuff.by the way, epic games literally paid money to develop the fbx exporter to be specific to unreal, and they have a video on blender training, in their own fucking channel
>>659907>You can't admit that your amateur toyish software sucks dicks.Why are some Blender users so entrenched in that attitude, though? If I need to something and that something is better done in ZBrush than in Maya, I use ZBrush and get it done. I don't bitch about ZBrush and then try to come up with ways of sort-of doing what I need on Maya, despite whatever shortcomings it may have for that task. This really baffles me.
>>659912exactly, why can't blender haters just use maya? why torture yourself?
>>659918>blender hatersSorry, what?
>>659873Are you going to source your claim that they own everything you make under the EDU license?However if you use the education license to make anything then sell it you are a thief no better than a chink.I don't care about the way the company is run. If they eat babies in the end thats on them. If the product is good, then you buy it. If its not worth the money you don't. If you pirate it, to then act like you're better than other people because of what software you use you're a fucking retard. If you pirate software to pretend like you're doing something morally correct then you are a hypocrite, if you go so far as to make money with said pirated software you are scum.I guess in the end its a good mixture of "why would I trust purchasing advice from someone who didn't purchase it" and then the ones that do typically think that its fine to wrong because the company isn't that agreeable. Two wrongs don't make a right, but they make a good excuse.
>>659655Maya is used everywhere these days. Games, VFX, animation. It is overall the most powerful and capable piece of software. It also runs on mac and linux, while Max is windows-only.Max is still dominant in archviz and it is the best hard-surface modeler out there. Part of this is because it has strong CAD integration features. It does a slightly better job than Maya with very-high polycounts. It is also rock-solid and does not crash. Overall I would suggest just to learn Maya. Personally, I find it more intuitive and easier to learn. If you want to up your hard surface modeling you can learn Max as a secondary piece of software.
>>659926>Max is still dominant in archviz and it is the best hard-surface modeler out therepost discarded
>>659912They cannot fathom that others have a logic and normal relationship to their tools and are not overly driven by brand loyalty or in case of Blender, cultish ideology.The are also quite retarded because they don't realize the most basic economic rule that time equals money. If i have to spent money for a better tool which lets me create higher quality, or is simply faster, then i either use less of my time or reach higher levels of quality which equals more money. Both are valuable and i get something back for the investment.I always optimize for speed, but never let go of my standard of quality. I rather have a hour or 2 more time at the end of day, then working longer but spending less money. It blows my mind how people are not seeing this.
>>659928Blender users don't actually generate any revenue so it's not exactly hard to understand their attitude against things costing money.
>>659928It's free, it does the job. Efficiency is gravy.Can you even fathom the hill Blender is climbing with little ressources and being non profit? Yet after a relatively short time their platform is great.I know Photoshop is great, but Gimp works too.
>>659928>It blows my mind how people are not seeing this.because its not true
>>659933>Efficiency is gravy.Explain that phrase to an non native English speaker please, i don't get it. I have the feeling you said something stupid. Efficiency is definitely not some stuff you smear on your turkey before roasting it. >Gimp works too.Except when you do image manipulation in some professional form, then it doesn't.Similarly to Blender, as long as it works fine, everything is fine. But there comes a point where it isn't.
>>659934It is absolutely true and you are either a liar or willfully ignorant and/or in denial.
>>659938The gravy is for after roasting the turkey, it's the sauce.Gravy is extra, gravy is luxury.A turkey is always a turkey, but it's better with gravy.
>>659939this thread is jarring.this is why i don't get along with millenials, most of you have this bootlicker mentality, and i bet you polish your linkedin more than working on your portfolio.you won't get any good goy points for championing autodesk, not here, not on 4chan. you refuse to admit that your points are wrong, so you come up with half-assed arguments about uv packing and coding. sometimes its best to admit that your'e wrong. trust me no one will judge you for that. its okay to be wrong sometimes, and its okay to feel shame. move on and grow, stop worrying how much your company and peers love you.
>>659948People also forget that Autodesk is 20 years ahead, for profit, worth billions and has plenty of companies pumping big bucks into r&d. What Blender is doing with such a small team, for free... is nothing short of miraculous.
>>659942So.>Efficiency is luxury.In an world of incompetent people, yes. Do stupid things, collect stupid prices.My feeling was right.
>>659951It's free you retard.It's the same thing as in the faggy games, you can download them free but you have to pay for the extra.Always the dumb fucking retards who pay for shit that cries about the free version.
>>659643>No amount of marketing from Microsoft has been able to displace Linux, a free software, from the dominant position in the high performance computing market.Wrong. It's precisely Microsoft marketing what put them there: Windows costs money.>The same goes for Internet servers, where Linux is by far the preferred option.Exactly. For the same reason.
>>659948You are clearly jarred. You are addressing the wrong Anon, your post is full of assumptions and without any argument. >>659952I am looking at it from an economical perspective you fucking dolt. Do-ability and Efficiency are much more important than cost.
>>659962>your post is full of assumptionsyes, because those (((comparison))) threads are started for the sole purpose of flinging shit. not one time in the history of /3/ was there a thread about how shitty maya is. because the person in question is heavily engaged in those types of threads. this is how agenda driven people behave.
>>659952You keep telling people everywhere on the internet that blender has surpassed commercial solutions. But when people prove you otherwise you say "but it's free!". Make up your damn mind. Price has nothing to do with it, it's either better than commercial solutions as a bunch of you claim or it isn't. Price has nothing to do with it.
>>659971again, you forget that the majority of blender users are low iq third worlders that can barely speak english. their opinion doesn't matter.but /3/ does not have the same type of fanboyism.
>>659402If you're interested in modeling, then fuck it! Just use blender. In my mind it's not a big deal which software you start with, and blender's modeling tools are the best thing about it. If you're getting into 3D for the first time, you need to gain an understanding of the basic concepts to turn your ideas into models. If you're further along and looking for animation, rendering, texturing or anything along those lines, you might look into maya or something similar. I've only had a taste, but it seems to be pretty well suited. On the other hand, blender is completely free and 2.8 is adding a ton of exciting stuff. Everything that can be done in another program can be done in blender, and while you don't get any support from blender the internet is stuffed full of advice and tutorials on it. Probably just as much if not more that any other program. It's just a program, so unless you're dead serious about going into the industry it's not worth worrying about.
>>659979You sounded very reasonable up until you made this statement: >Everything that can be done in another program can be done in blenderWhy do you think you can make that assessment when you only had a "taste" of Maya, not to mention the rest?
>>659959Linux is where it is because it's more performant, not because of the amount of money spent on marketing by Microsoft, or the cost of its products.
>>659968But Anon, we all agree that Autodesk sucks and Maya is a bloated, unstable piece of crap. But it's among the best pieces of crap on the market, has non-crap support, and it helps you get the job done.
>>659999yes maya is used in everything.lets not forget that blender was a total piece of shit before 2.4 and got decent around 2.7many people think blender got popular because of the productions made in cycles, but in reality- it was propped up by pornfags and people migrating from old sfm. most of the usage, even today. is just exporting,importing and rendering pre-made scenes. but the people that push blender forward are the ones that use it as a legitimate art-tool. the foundation purpose was to put those artists up as poster-boys for the software, as it still heavily rely's on crowdfunding
>>660000>most of the usage, even today. is just exporting,importing and rendering pre-made scenesLet's not forget about asset laundering. Taking assets from pirated versions of Maya/3ds and clearing them through Blender.Some people wonder why Blender doesn't use the FBX SDK from Autodesk. The reason is clear: it's not because of licensing issues, as the Foundation wants us to believe, but because using the official SDK would remove this laundering ability from Blender, and illegally distributed assets could be traced back to wherever they originated.
>>660002pornfags are prone to stealing and not paying for anything, so yeah i can see the appeal
>>660002>the blender foundation is working with pornfags to not put in a feature that would allow illegal assets to be traced
>>659998Linus is getting vaginated.
>>660002>porn video featuring COPY-WRITTEN CHARACTERS gets reported>the author used a proprietary file format for their model >investigators backtrace the video's exif data, reverse engineer the model, find the exact cdkey used by the author>check the Autodesk registry of cdkeys, find the author's name and address>work with Interpol to arrest their argentinian, colombian, or other south american country assIt's that simple piratefags and it can happen to YOU
>>660007Get a load of this faggot
>>660007actually, all you have to do is to prove the model is your's, that's quite enough.
>>659441Just decided to hop on.Just wanna say it's not okay to be retarded because someone else is. That's essentially the way of thinking right there.
>>660007That scenario is irrelevant to the post you quoted.
>>660002The main guy behind blender did an interview with Blender Guru where he said that Autodesk purposefully keeps changing how the format works in order to fuck with them and prevent them implementing it fully. Blame Autismdesk for their shitty formats not working properly in Blender.The interview is on Blender Guru's Youtube channel.
>>660007And how would the investigators get the 3D models' metadata from a video?
>>660007>mfw all of the replies continue to prove that /3/ can't process a joke
>>660002I wondeeeer could that be the reason why valve pumps so much dosh into blender and promotes it everywhere. (((Gabe))) wants to rake in that mad /3/porn $$$?Could that be boku no doto coming?
>>660087I'm sure the guy from Blender has no ulterior motive though...
>>660087>Autodesk purposefully keeps changing how the format works in order to fuck with them and prevent them implementing it fullyI don't buy it fren.Filmbox works perfectly fine in everything I worked with. Houdini, Zbrush, Substance, Mari, these are the ones I've tried personally, never had problems with it, never heard their reps bitching about it either.There are two explanations for his statement.Either this is a global conspiracy.Or simply incompetence times gnu\zeal.
>>660123It's not incompetence or zeal, it's just GNU GPL. Blender devs have their hands tied legally, they cannot use the Autodesk plugin even if they wanted to.
>>660151Bottom line: GNU GPL is cancer.
Cons* terrible documentation... and for something as complex as blender or, hell, just computer graphics in general, this is really bad* annoying community full of artsy/liberal types who use their real name and face (we should have banned this when the Internet was first created. we wouldn't have social media if we had -- fucking shame is what it is)* childish infighting and condescension* cults of personality* most default settings are too low, too high, or at zero and do nothingPros* is a true swiss army knife, batteries included, etc.* if you can recognize a tool is a tool is a tool, then you can get started with practically zero investment* max out its potential and then move on to greener pastures. it's a free education in cg* go to the finished works forum on blenderartists. if you think it's a toy, then use something else. simple as that. the universe doesn't care what you do and this is a good thing
>>660151There are plug-ins to use third-party proprietary tools. If Ton's argument were valid, we wouldn't have Octane or Renderman for Blender.
>>659411It's because some of these studios cannot afford to have any down time if the program has a fault. If something goes wrong in 3ds you can call up Autodesk and have them fix the problem within an hour. With blender you'll have to wait until the next update for there to be a fix if you're lucky.
>>660251>If something goes wrong in 3ds you can call up Autodesk and have them fix the problem within an hour.do you have proof that actually happened or you just talk out of ur ass
>>660166But Pixar isn't Autodesk. They don't practice the "We own our souls" method of intimidation like Autodesk does.
>>660262I don't know about Autodesk, but that's the case with SideFX.
>>660267Uh, what? They don't own anything you make with the help of the FBX SDK, if that's what you're hinting at.
p-free etc. c-heavy
>>660262One hour is fictional, but i observed a bug/glitch reported to SideFX in the evening and the next morning there was a new built with it fixed.
>>660269>>660292t. sidefx marketers
>>660294Sure, a happy client is worth a thousand marketers.
>>659909It doesn't work anymore. There was a recent thread on the unreal forums about that. And how are they retarded? I never see any threads about people having trouble sending their Max/Maya animations to unreal. You just select everything, you export and it works. With blender, you get daily threads about people who cannot send their animations to unreal because the fbx exporter is crap.This is one of the many things I hate about the blender fanbase. You won't admit your software's shortcomings, you prefer to blame it on other people/software.
>>660313Imagine the feelings of whoever at Epic decided to throw the Blender Fuckdation those 10k, and see them go into fuck knows what.
>>660316it's probably pocket change for them
>>660251>If something goes wrong in 3ds you can call up Autodesk and have them fix the problem within an hour.LOL. Have you ever actually dealt with Autodesk?
>>660313because maya attracts less retards.
>>660323maya also attracts cute animator girlsbiggest con to blender so far
>>660321Sure, but it must still suck.
>>660166Octane and Renderman use a special firewalling technique to avoid the GPL.They write the scene data to disk from Blender, then launch the render engine as a separate process. This avoids dynamic linking with the Blender application. Have you seen how Renderman works in Maya? You can get an integrated viewport render same as pressing shift-Z in Blender. That will never be possible for Renderman in Blender without GPL violation.GPL is Blender's Achilles heel. Its strength and its weakness.
>>659402Pros: You don't fucking rent itCons: The UI. >>659411The realistic answer is support. When shit goes wrong and you a big VFX house, Developer, whatever, major programs have support. When shit goes wrong in blender... you check out a few forums. That said, I don't understand why it's not used in more Freelance work.
>>660332Yes, I agree with that. But the point is made against those who say that it's because of licensing issues that we can't use the FBX SDK with Blender. The truth is that we could, if the developers wanted to. But, instead, they chose to reverse engineer the whole thing and give us a deficient bridge to the rest of the CGI community.By the way, I'm not sure about not being able to have an IPR like Renderman's for Maya does. The solution would be the same, using an intermediate exchange format for sending scene data to Renderman and getting back the rendered pixels. As long as the threads remain in separate processes (or something like this, I don't remember the exact details), the GPL is compatible with it.
>>659402Pros - it is an all in one package. you can do anything from good old poly modeling to texturing, animation even video editing in it.it is open source meaning you can edit the program however you wish. this comes in handy for programmers as they can make their own addons quite easilyit is free as such you do not need to shill out large amounts of money to use it legallyCons - It is resource intensive and will not work well with scenes that require high amounts of polygonsit is not the best program to do any particular thing. you can sculpt in blender but zbrush does it much better. you can make textures in blender but substance is better etcoverall it is a good entry into the 3d scene because nearly all of the skills you will learn in blender can be transferred to other programs easily
Pros: you maek friendsCons: the kind of friends you maek
>>660341And that is part of the reason why it's looked down upon. If they actually bothered to license it and not fail an attempt to reverse engineer it, at least half the issues would be gone.
>>659402Pros: It has no consCons:
>>660681do you not understand how licenses work?they exist so you can lease/buy them. blender is a free software
>>660699What exactly is your argument?
>>659402Pros: But hey, it's free!Cons: Everything else.
>>660681>>660699Neither of you monkeys understand the GPL.The GPL is an ideological license that REQUIRES open-sourcing anything that comes into contact with it. Steve Ballmer famously called it "cancer," and although the GPL isn't really bad or evil, the term "cancer" is a good metaphor for how it works.Because of the GPL license, it is *illegal* for Blender to use the Autodesk FBX library. The library is closed source, and GPL forbids you from releasing software linked with a closed source library.
>>660806You can write a program that runs isolated from Blender (uses inter-process communication, no linking) and gives it indirect access to the FBX SDK. There's nothing in the GPL that forbids this; in fact, there's an explicit mention of this architecture as something compliant with the license.
>>660834Not the guy you're replying to, but are you saying that the blender foundation, or the blender community, should make an entirely new program whos sole purpose is to work isolated from blender to allow use of the FBX SDK?Am I reading reading this correctly?The guy you were responding to was defining what can be done and what can't be done with the license.
>>660806>>660834>>660836Completely different anon here.>are you saying that the blender foundation, or the blender community, should make an entirely new program whos sole purpose is to work isolated from blender to allow use of the FBX SDK?Yup. That's just how the GPL is. It's a funky little license that's really a lot like cancer. Any "offspring" of the program has to be licensed identical to the "parent". It's one of the loopholes that fully legally permits gratis redistribution of otherwise paid addons. (addendum: the initial charge is legal though, so having to pay for addons is perfectly compliant with the GPL too) The only way you can separate a part of the program from the license would be to simply make it standalone and have it communicate with your program. As it's now its own program, it can operate under a completely different license.
>>660836blender fbx works correctly for the most part, based on personal experiences of course.the only time where it didn't work for me is when i tried to export to soma mod. and by the way autodesk have an fbx converter, that you can download for free.the FBX panic that this person described, is exaggerated to monumental levels.
>>660704That's what I want to know. What was stopping Blender Foundation from buying the license to begin with?
>>660836>>660839That's entirely correct. Note that when I wrote about making a program I wasn't thinking of anything big, but rather something closer to the scope of an add-on. A tiny stand-alone program whose only purpose is to bridge data between Blender and the FBX SDK. Blender sends to this program a package with the scene data, the program translates this into the appropriate calls to the FBX SDK, gets the SDK output, and sends it back to Blender or directly to disk.>>660951I may be wrong but I think the SDK is free for anyone to use. What's limited is redistributing it in source form. This means that, for a program/add-on like the one just described, distributing it in binary form would be allowed by the SDK license. The only caveat is that its source can't be distributed together with the SDK, but that's not a real problem as the SDK can be freely downloaded by however would be interested in compiling the add-on.
Blender is not used very much in a professional context. Better to learn Houdini or Maya if you want to get a real vfx job.
sooooooo should we get blender or a maya 3d trial?
>>660091welcome to the era of post-irony where every post is a sincere post and no fun is allowed
XSI user here trying out Blender and the tools seem solid especially the modeling tools but what bothers me is that some very basic things seem to take at least one completely unnecessary extra click in blender to do. Examples.-Can't go straight in to the sub-object modes eg. vertex mode, edge mode etc. You have to go in to the edit mode first. Extra click. (And I'm using hotkeys here) Why can't I just directly go to the sub-object mode I want to.-To view the objects UV's you have to be in the edit mode. Just selecting the object while having UV editor open isn't enough. Extra click.-To numerically move multiple objects you can't just select them and insert the number in the XYZ box. It just moves the first object. You have to right click the box and select "Copy to single selected" Two extra clicks.This is all very frustrating as they are completely unnecessary steps. For the last example if I'd only want to move one object I'd only select one object.
>>661606lol just stick with XSI.
>>660951"Hey Autodesk, how much to buy source code to part of your insanely profitable proprietary software suite and give it away for free? Btw we develop a competitor product"
>>661606Cons of Blender: - Anything having to do with UVs
>>661624UVs are nowhere near as bad as the rigging system.Even if I were good at rigging I'd still have issues with how needlessly complicated it is.
>>659402Pros: Free, UI that makes sense, fast and decent renderer, node based editing, file association with game engines.Cons: Keyboard dependency, rigging workflow can be better, no compositing tools.
>>661705"can be better" lmfaoDid you read that next year they're completely scrapping that wreck and starting from scratch? Blender rigging is a steaming pile of shit. Lightwave 5 tier. If Blender is all you know, it's possible to crouch down to swallow it for baby tier work. But it is unusable today if you have any experience in a real rigging system. Fucking blendlets trying to pull the wool over people's eyesYou can't grow unless you accept reality. Nut up and reread what I just wrote until you get it.
>>661707why do you still use blender?
>>661728I don't, I'm a Maya guy. I learned Blender to collaborate with Blender artists. (Modelers, not animators.) I spent a good amount of time trying to rig one of my characters in Blender and gave it a damn honest shot with some serious research and learned that Blender is simply incapable of doing what I need it to do.
>>659819But it off thepiratebay, I hear there's a pretty good sale for it on there
>>661778>maya guy telling other people their program of choice is shitliterally cant even current year imagine still
>>661934But he is telling the truth.
>>661934Maya is objectively the most complete and versatile 3d package out there. Keep crying blendie.
pros: all of themcons: jeesus fucking christ, this is ugliest icon i've ever seen
>>661934People like you talking about rigging in Blender without having tried Maya before, or sculpting in Blender without having tried Zbrush before, who give your community such a terrible terrible reputation. How about you show me some state of the art Blender rigs? Like that BlenRig shit from 2015? lmfao, literally dying here.
Can anyone actually tell what is specifically wrong with rigging in Blender? Like what particular features Maya has that Blender does not? All I've heard so far is C++ rigs.
>>662043A large part of it is that Blender's rigging system is outdated as fuck, and it always breaks when you try using the weight paint option.Even the Foundation knows this and are planning to update it by 2020.
Until you max out blender's features, I don't see a reason to even consider another program unless you're a student or professional or you have a very specific requirement (like if you *only* want to learn sculpting and have zero interest in modeling, animation, rendering, etc. then you probably want a tool specialized for that like zbrush)
>>662043Blender is single threaded, Maya is multi-threaded (animation playback). Maya 2019 just released (yesterday) and they say animation performance improved up to a factor of 2. It already was the program with the fastest realtime playback of rigs, now it got even faster while Blender 2.8 is slower than 2.79.
>>662043I will be more concrete than these guys. They are right, but they don't show you how bright it is on the other side. >>662176>>662071The way this system works is:- The controllers are pinned to the face geometry. (We'll get back to this)- The face controller position is translated to the world origin by inverting the transformation of the head joint.- The local transforms are used as skin weights to deform a NURBS ribbon that follows his lips.- The red objects are "follicles" which export the coordinate frame (position + normal+ tangent) at specific (u,v) coordinates of the NURBS ribbon.- The follicles are attached to joints which follow the follicle coordinates.- The joints are attached to a separate copy of the mesh that sits at the origin which has only skin weights on a root joint and the lip follicles.- The lip deformation shape is fed into the final mesh using a blendshape node, one of about a dozen such "local face deformers" in the facial rig system.- The lip controller position actually takes into account the lip blendshape when computing its position so there's a circularity, but the evaluation profiles of the lip controller nodes are set up to take it into account properly and only update after you release the mouse so the circularity isn't a problem.It is simply impossible to rig this in Blender. On the other hand, it's perfectly possible to do it like this in Houdini or C4D since they are also node based, but the key benefit of Maya is that it is far faster. Maya puts quite a lot of emphasis on its playback performance as you can see from the release notes of 2019.
>>662043(cont) Although the ribbon is the most important part let me mention some other parts of the system that are nice.- The on-mesh controllers are great, especially like having blendshapes or phoneme controls automatically update the positions of the lip joints, or just the cheek controller moving if you pull the lips back.- The local deformer system is better for parallel evaluation, since each of the dozen blendshapes can be evaluated in parallel.- The fact you can skin NURBS ribbon with ordinary joint weighting tools lets you more easily tweak the effects of the lip controllers. The reason to use ribbons instead of splines is to allow off-axis rotation for pucker and press. There are three fundamental strengths of Maya. 1. It is node-based. Blender knows they made the wrong call without a node-based architecture, which is what they are fixing in 2020. I cannot tell you how terrible it feels trying to look through a Blender rig by clicking on one bone at a time searching for constraints. It's like trying to write software with only one line of text on screen at a time. 2. Maya does not give joints or any other nodes special privilege. They're just ways of binding data to other data. There's no "armature" mode, just a node graph. You can use meshes as input or output anywhere in the pipeline. You can drive joint positions with custom C++ solvers, matrix equations, or Python scripts. You can create rigs that don't even use joints at all, and instead just use entirely custom deformation nodes, and achieve the same speed as rigging with joints, because Maya does not discriminate.3. Maya has an open architecture in a way Blender does not. There's a difference between open source and open to configure. Blender is rigid and locked-in, and the best way to modify it is (ugh) C code, compiling the entire thing from source. Maya can be formed into whatever shape you want with clean, simple, fast APIs. Did I mention the GPL?https://vimeo.com/294403108
>>662198i appreciate your rigging and animation skills, but seeing how the IK rigs are made from the blender cloud (IE open movies) and their complexity. i don't think you fully understand how to use blender.
>>662207I have seen downloaded that "open movie" blenrig bullshit, picked through it and the mechanism is absolute garbage. It's just ONE cage deformer across a few sets of cute joint setups. I already brought this up earlier in the thread. I am NOT a good rigger. This is what any indie animator can do with AdvancedSkeleton. Actual professional TDs do far more advanced systems than what I do. For example, I've talked about the basic design being parallel friendly, but the actual rig performance could be improved a lot by rewriting the nodes and tracing the dependency graph manually to eliminate slowdowns and delays. Where I'm at is the mere tip of the iceberg in Maya and it's far beyond anything I was able to do in Blender myself or find inside that (one single) example of a "pro rig" you guys like to tout so much. Can I remind you again that the Animation 2020 roadmap ADMITS the rigging system is an old creaky piece of shit? They explicitly said in their blog post that it is "outdated 90s" tech, and that it be rewritten in a way that more closely adheres to the principles I've outlined. The god damn *Blender foundation* agrees with me and you are trying to claim I don't understand what I'm talking about?
>>662210>I am NOT a good riggergood, now i know that i shouldn't listen to you.you be be good at holding dicks, but that's not what we do here.
>>662210That is because HE isn't able to understand what he is talking about, but what do you expect from a retarded fanboy. There is no reasonable way to argue with people like that. They are not operating on facts, their driving force is ideology and belief systems. But hey, we are on a slow board, your write-up will stay for a while and it might help other people who honestly want to learn and are not blinded by fanboy-ism.
>>662198>>662200>>662210Great insight Anon. Thanks for sharing. Always knew Blender's rigging was gimped in some way but never knew by what, since I don't rig. By the way, don't waste your breath arguing with that other anon. I recognise him; he's one of our resident blendlets. You can tell by the dismissive tone and lowercase typing that's punctuated. He'll deflect and cherrypick points to respond to because damnit if he can't comprehend that people can see both sides of an argument at once.
>>662198>>662200Thanks for the informative posts. I appreciate the effort.
>>662210What I don't get is why did Blender hold off on this until now. Why not do it when updating to the 2.5-2.7 structure then further improve it with 2.8?Was it the lack of manpower or their stubborn refusal to change the code?
>>662235that's because he is talking about rigging from a programmer perspective, not from a rigger perspective. i appreciate his ability to tinker with code and sort through the junk inside, but that does not make him an expert on rigging or finished products
>>662241The only question to ask here then is: Are you? Are you an expert at rigging then? You've made zero effort to dispute any of his points and went straight to "lol his points are invalid because oops he's just a noob!!"Even if you wanted to dispute his points then, we could easily play the same card and say neither of your points are valid because you're not an expert either. There's really only three ways this goes from here:1) You pull the "i-i'm not doxxing myself on 4chan!!" card. 2) You default back to ad hominems and cherrypicking rather than facing the argument because you can't accept the loss. 3) You actually prove him wrong with your vault of knowledge, or at least embarrass yourself trying to. That anon's provided proof to his points, it's time you do the same.
>>662235>>662236No problem anons. I'm not perturbed by lowercase blendlet here, I think I got trolled by his first post but the second one is so weak I realized he's just shitposting. I kinda wanted to rant about blender, kinda wanted to show off my dragon, so I got what I was after. If you want to rig and animate and you are picky about getting great results, or you want to do facial animation, just go with Maya, period. >>662240 Rewriting to create a node-based core has been on the Blender dev to-do list since before Eevee was started. When they began the 2.8 development push in 2017 they decided to pause the core rewrite and focus on the UI instead. I don't blame them: the UI is universal while rigging and animation is a smaller audience.>>662241Rigging *is* programming. Try harder, lowercase. https://www.justtodosomethingbad.com/blog/2018/4/16/rigs-are-programs
>>662243dude im not cherrypicking. im not against you, i just know that theres a difference between dissecting a program down to its core components and actually making stuff that people enjoy (you know, like art).just to preface, im not an expert on anything. but iv used blender for over 7 years now, and i know the program more than anyone on here. the question i should ask are this:1. have you ever made a finished product, regarding rigging or animation. 2.do you know blender API so much that you are positive that everything you say here is true3.do you have experience regarding custom rigs in real-time pipeline. or its just a hobby of yours?4.do you enjoy samefagging? because i don't.5.have you tried constructing a rig from top to bottom, using the default tools in both programs?if most of those questions are "no" then your'e not qualified to answer the topic. the reason why i don't argue your points is because i admit to not know anything about rigging, but far as my artwork goes it does everything i want it to do. even if it involves making my own node systems and shaders, even if i have to download a third-party tool or a plugin to get the work done.
>>662241Btw, I thought we were at a level of debate where if I show you that lip setup and say "I'm not a good rigger" you would realize it's self-deprecating. The point is that even if I'm a black belt compared to Blender's blue belt, there is a world beyond my hobbyist level going out to 11-dan Rigging Gods.
>>662245Well, first off, you're replying to the wrong anon. Yes, you responded to me, but I think it's very clear from my post that I'm not the same anon. And yeah, I'll admit I'm not qualified to answer the topic either, I don't even rig for starters. But I wasn't arguing about the topic, I was arguing about your shit attitude.>the reason why i don't argue your points is because i admit to not know anything about riggingThen why did you have to act so flippant and arrogant if in the end you don't know much as well? You coulda just said "ah, good points, i never knew." rather than going on this odd tirade that that anon knew nothing and that you somehow did.Anon, all I'm saying here is that you're making yourself look like an ass with all these posts of yours. As someone just in the audience looking in, I think I'm perfectly qualified to say that. Seriously, you're a cancer to this board. Your writing style is incredibly distinct that I know you post here quite often. You act so full of yourself and so immediately dismissive of anyone who stands against you while everyone's just trying to help each other where they go wrong. I'm not asking you to leave, but I'm asking you to at least be a decent human being. Act more rational and dissect your opponent's arguments rather than zeroing on specific points and dismissing the bulk of the rest. I've seen you argue with other anons before and that's what you always do time after time. I'm sure you know your stuff, just type out essays and prove that you're the dominant one in the argument, rather than this weird act where you just look like a snobby wise guy.
>>662248when i said "i don't know anything about rigging" what i meant was, i have rigged,animated and done some shit but not at the level where i would be qualified to talk about it.now lets get to your actual post, because you said some harsh things right now.>all I'm saying here is that you're making yourself look like an ass with all these posts of yoursim an ass? why im an ass? all i asked you guys to do is to bring a fucking rigger to the mix so he can explain why maya rigging is better than blender rigging, while actually handling the rig.hows that being an asshole? >You coulda just said "ah, good points, i never knew.he never made any points, look at his post again.>Act more rational and dissect your opponent's arguments rather than zeroing on specific points and dismissing the bulk of the rest. im not dismissing anything he said, im just saying he didn't make any arguments why maya rigging is better than blender. he didn't talk about why weight painting is better, why blend shapes are better, why the graph editor is better, why the IK is better, why the the controllers are better. take a look again at what he said.>I'm asking you to at least be a decent human beingfuck you, at least im not samefagging like others here, which you know damn well is true.
>>662245Rigger anon answering lowercase's questions since they seem 85% directed at me.1. My best animation has a bit over 100k views on Youtube.2. I have used Blender's Python scripting functionality a decent amount. I've read the source code of Autorig Pro for example to figure out how it works. (Very unimpressed.) Blender's API is an absolute joke overall. For example, I tried to figure out how to pause viewport preview rendering through Python. Turns out you can't! 3. I collaborated on a game/interactive animation based on a Maya -> Unreal Engine character pipeline. 4. Nobody's samefagging. 5. I did the "babby's first IK/FK arm" intro to rigging tutorials just like everyone else, both in Maya and Blender. For serious rigs I use automated tools to build the basic biped structure and add custom features on top of it. In Maya, the benefits of an autorigger are much larger for two reasons. First, there's a lot more to Maya rigs than joint placement and constraints, so there's no way to "enter edit mode" and move joints around. Having a way to quickly rebuild the rig is better. Second, Maya rigs are more complex than Blender rigs, so it's much more advantageous to have it automated. You think that using an autorig system means I'm limited somehow, but it's just because autorigs aren't as important in Blender.
>>662249> he didn't make any arguments why maya rigging is better than blender. he didn't talk about why weight painting is better, why blend shapes are better, why the graph editor is better, why the IK is better, why the the controllers are better. take a look again at what he said.I'm saying *if you think that's all there is to rigging, you don't understand what rigging is.*Btw the weight painting is better because of ngSkinTools, the blendshapes are better because they support layering via local deformers as I described in my very first post with the lip rig, IK can be done with fully custom C++ solvers and runs parallel on your machine, and the controllers are often invisible parts of your mesh that don't require separate NURBS curves. I do think that Maya beats Blender in those areas Blender actually has something to show, low tier stuff like placing joints and painting weights. But you're right that Blender is capable of doing those things, and they are such low level basics that every piece of software can do them more or less. But you've missed the whole point of my argument, which is that stuff isn't what's wrong with Blender. Those are the few meager scraps it has to offer. Meanwhile Maya sets a feast on the table. You can't create fleshy, smooth lips in Blender, you can't hook it up to a C++ api for lip sync, you can't connect your rig directly to Motionbuilder for motion capture editing. It's not those dumb little things you listed like weight painting, it's the things that you don't even know you're missing that render Blender's pathetic 1990s rigging system absolutely shameful.And nobody is samefagging, good god. There's me and the dude who doesn't rig.
>>662249Ass doesn't mean asshole. It means someone who's a fool. It just happens to be a convenient contraction of asshole too, but they mean entirely different things.>he never made any points, look at his post again.>>662198The point being made here is: Maya can rig like this. Blender cannot.The wall of text serves as the elaboration and his attachment serves as the example. A perfect argumentative point.>>662200Three points being made here, helpfully numbered for you.Decently elaborated, albeit I'd say points 1 and 2 lack suitable examples. That's four points, perfectly well-suited for an argument if you knew anything about writing.>im not dismissing anything he said, im just saying he didn't make any arguments why maya rigging is better than blender.Fair point, however, for the wrong argument. What I meant with my words here was for this:See >>662210 right here. That anon posted a healthy wall of text. What did you respond with? >>662231. Where you singled out "I am NOT a good rigger." and ignored everything else. >at least im not samefagging like others hereWowie, really can't believe you're the bad guy here, huh? What makes you think I'm the same anon? My posts are far longer than his, my argument is entirely different, I use British English while that anon's using American English, I paragraph my posts differently from his. Sorry dude, as much as I love writing, I don't have the time to give myself separate personalities and writing styles.
>>662250okay argument accepted.so moving on from here, what are the things blender can do to improve its system? or it should re-build the source code entirely to allow the things you mentioned beforehand
>>662253The answer is in the so called Animation 2020 and its Ton's next big goal for Blender besides everything nodes. They are still in the process of rewriting the core, but pushed some of it to the side in favor of fixing the damn UI first. It is not really tangible now, but AFAIK the plan is to rewrite (most of) it and make it node-based. https://www.blender.org/press/blender-projects-in-2018-to-look-forward-to/"Blender’s armature and rigging system is based on a design from the 90ies. It’s a solid concept, but it’s about time to refresh and upgrade it. When Blender 2.8x gets closer to beta I want to move my focus on getting a project organized (and funded) to establish a small team of developers on animation tools for the next decade – Animation 2020! Contact me if you want to contribute."
>>662251with all of that being said, you collected all of this *information* to discredit blender. its sounds like you are targeting the software because it legitimately made you angry. and i have to consider your emotional state in this argument.99% of the people whom are doing rigging or animation within blender, use the most simple,most accessible tools that are avaliable to them. most people do not give a fuck about some 'system' or a code based rig they can inject into their model. rigging and animation is mostly skill based. - and that's the whole crux of my argument.so far iv seen people rig just about anything with blender, your personal anger regarding blender is not of my concern. >and they are such low level basics that every piece of software can do them more or less."such a low level" is not an argument.
Thanks for the helpful and constructive answers from people who are more experienced in rigging. I was the one who asked the question earlier what are the real differences. Looks like a node based system for rigging would improve rigging in Blender by quite a bit. Is this correct?
>>662231My god you blender users are retarded and immature.
>>662271>muh feeeelingshere he is again , spouting nonsense. Nobody is angry at Blender (a free program) or the Blender devs for doing their best, but being only able to so much, resulting in an working but basic rigging system. People are angry at fucking retarded fanboys like yourself, insisting that Blender is as good as Maya, when all evidence points to the fact that it isn't. Idiots like you, who insist that people who educate others about the shortcomings of a software have ulterior motivations are the sickness that is hated.You don't have arguments, you have diffuse feelings and ideology, that gets in the way of truth.Go fuck yourself, and your Dunning Kruger infested rotten brain.
It never seizes to amaze me how much emotional weight and glaring frustration these Blender threads have here. Ya'll should really spend more time shutting up and doing 3D. Maybe you'd be happier for it.Pros and cons of Blender:+ A great way to learn 3D, plenty of tutorials+ Solid set of tools to get a wide grasp of 3D+ Will support you through starting a career and then growing out of Blender- Will not support deep specialization in any specific field- Not heavily relied upon in established studios- Looked down upon by some princesses in and out of the industry
why are you all so toxic on this topic? I can tell you some pros and cons:+Good modelling, actually is really good (it's the only thing that Maya's user accept) so...+a huge community, a lot of pages where you can get information, share or help, "Sheep it" is a render farm where you can share your pc power to render other's work, and then you can use those points that you get to render your work, that's a pretty good for someone who works alone, or a few group of people and doesn't have the enough money to pay a renderfarm. You can set you own preferences to the interface and the way you work with shortcuts, so it will help you to feel more comfortable in your workflow.in the new version 2.8 (still in beta) there's a new engine in realtime, that's so helpfull to work with lighting and shaders, (btw i'm talking about a blender scene, something that u will render in Cycles, so don't say "bah, if a want to use a realtime engine i can usa unreal, unity blablabla...") have it in the same program is great to dont waste time in Cycles with render proofs. -The simulation system is bad, the Unwrap option waste so many space, and the rigging is bad too... (i'm not working so deep in this part, but the people always say it, even the same blender users)As a conclusion, never think in only one Software, no one will do everything, and in that case some parts wont work properly. (at least, not with the quality enough)(yes, don't speak english properly ikr)
>>662326>Sheep itlol enjoy ur work being snatched and then sold in the CG black market
>>662332That was no senseIs a joke, right?
>>662244Still doesn't explain why it took THIS long to do it and why they didn't do it when they did their first UI upgrade back in the 2.5 days.
>>662279let me quote you fucking baby>You can't create fleshy, smooth lips in Blender, you can't hook it up to a C++ api for lip sync, you can't connect your rig directly to Motionbuilder for motion capture editing. this is your argument to why maya is better. okay, we get it. maya is better, you win.i can't use blender to create fleshy lips with fleshylips.py script like maya can. that's big, that's really fucking big.
>>662352also, im not here to butt heads. but you literally ignored my entire argument about why blender was made, and who uses it. you didn't read it
ah so we are back at "hobbyist" argumentthen the same people will spout nonsense about muh blender in industryREALLY makes you think
>>662392capability is measured in results, same as everything else.
>>662352>that's really fucking big.It is, and its flying right over your head at an accelerated pace making a wooosh! sound.>>662392Its a loop, it has no end. Don't think about it to much.
>>662396no it isn't. because you see anon, most animators don't need to write code or make scripts to do anything. scripting in 3D is a quality of life thing(more often than not). and just because a company decided to use mocap data or scripting to do their shit, does not mean that every company in the world does the same thing.you are really corporate minded which is getting a bit disturbing. just 10 years ago we couldn't texture without photoshop, now every artists needs his dirt generator to make anything, this is you.
>>662397>most animators don't need to write code or make scripts to do anythingbecause that's not our job,
>>662397>It's better to do things the hard way, go back to texturing in Photoshop and rigging like it's 1996My fucking sides
>>662406>>662448careful guise!! this anon has SEVEN (7 [seven]) years of experience in blender!! he knows what he's talking about!!
>>662452>>662448>>662406im not gonna argue with you anymore, and lets not pretend like there aren't any autodesk 'missionaries' on this site telling people to use maya. happy hunting.
>>662457you are talking to different people...
>>662458He's convinced that considering Maya superior to Blender in any way is so insane and implausible that there's no way more than one person could possibly think it, lol
>>659447>>659451Dude, you literally just drag the faces for the parts of the model you want to use the same part of the texture for over the top of each other in the UV editor.
>>660251>you can call up Autodesk and have them fix the problem within an hour>you can call up Autodesk and have them fix the problem>you can call up AutodeskNone of this is true. You can't call up Autodesk and talk to anybody who actually knows anything let alone get them to do anything.
Thank you guys for helping a conc/3/ptfag avoid making a big fucking mistake with wasting my time with Blender.I do a lot of hard surface stuff with different alt-fire states and crap like that. I do proxies so I'm not wasting the modeler's time and to keep the art director from asking for anything physically impossible. I was debating whether to learn Blender or stick with Max but then this thread made me realize why I never see Blender integrated into a production workflow. It's nice to be able to give the modeler a .max file with an uncollapsed stack and proxy animations.
>you can call up AutodeskBOYS WE GOT OURSELVES A NEW MEME HERE
>>662730>a big fucking mistake with wasting my time with BlenderWow, we saved you a half an hour of downloading, installing and trying a software. What a horrible fate we all avoided! Asshole.
>>662748>t. butthurt Blendlet
>>662748Cons of blender: your user community consists of people like this
>>659441>it's normal for us to have high standardsHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>659402Jesus Christ first time I ever visit /3/ and I almost puked, couldn't imagine how hard this board is filled with basedgoyims
>>662793That's more a con of /3/ more than just a Blender con, anon.'Course, that's redundant since /3/ itself is a giant con against all 3D software.
>>663455Have you ever been to blenderartists? Have you seen the comment section of any CG video on Youtube? They literally ask questions like "can you port AdvancedSkeleton to Blender?"
>>663465BlenderArtists is a fourm, so it's a circlejerk by default. And YouTube is just YouTube, comment sections are also retarded by default.
So putting aside software wars and rage at the fanbase, the major problem with Blender is a Jack of All trades, but master of none?It does a variety of different things from levels of bad to decent, but doesn't really have any one thing it does particularly well?
>>663510Yes. It's only "mastery" is modelling, and even then it's just up to par with the industry tools and nothing extraordinary. Everything else is otherwise behind the curve still.
>>663510As far as modeling goes, Blender is acceptable. Not better than 3ds, but comparable to Maya, with some handicaps like not being able to edit multiple objects together or having very bad viewport performance in edit mode.
>>663510if you could compare it to any software, i think you could compare it to c4d.c4d is like blender but without the bad press, and with less features. over the years, blender received meme status because of some faggots that couldn't properly do UV mapping or render, so they decided to blame the software.overall, i don't see maya users here that produce banging shit, everyone on /3/ is more or less on the same level.
>>663515>c4d is like blender but without the bad press, and with less features.>c4d is like blender>with less features
>>659427>- No C++ API whatsoever (equivalent to OpenMaya / OpenMaya2)Lol, it's open source and uses python.>- No ability to create custom GUI or OpenGL calls from Python (equivalent to Qt for Python)See above. You can literally do anything with Blender. You uneducated retard.>- GPL license means corporations will not touch binary plugins without hardcore firewalls (see: shitty gimped renderman & octane, no crowd sim plugins, will never have Houdini Engine)There are thousands of plugins for Blender, many commercial. Some rendering engines are not available, but you have many options. Use Houdini for Houdini. You can export Houdini stuff to and from Blender.>- No rigging evaluation graph. Unable to write custom formulas or expressions in character rigs. Single thread bound rig evaluation.All wrong. Try to learn something before you ever open your mouth again. Mongoloid little autocuck.
>>663515>over the years, blender received meme status because of the blender foundation that couldn't create proper UV mapping toolsFTFY
>>663578your only arguments are "hurrr you're wrong" without backing up your claims. You retarded little blendinette.
>>663513Blender 2.8 does support multi-object-editing. I haven't tried it yet, but they say that the performance in edit mode has improved as well.
>>663515>>663578You two must be the official /3/ Blender trolls. Lowercase blendlet and "Blender has 1000 plugins" guy. You do nothing but scream bullshit and waste people's time. The difference between a true first class C++ plugin API like Maya's and "its open source, you can modify it lul" Blender was already discussed earlier in this thread. Everything else in these posts just name-calling with no substantial argument.
>>663587It's not released yet. But it's good that they are implementing ten years old tech. In another ten years, they may catch up to Maya 2019!
>>663596>Everything else in these posts just name-calling with no substantial argument.and i assume 'troll' and 'blendie' is par for the course when it comes to namecalling with no substantial argument.im tired of repeating myself on this subject. but most of the 'maya is better' arguments stem from lack of skill or knowledge. just like the UV mapping autist, and the c++ code autist. you literally have no arguments against blender. everytime we get to the real discussion about tools you start namedropping your shitty maya plugins and custom systems. dude, no one wants your plugins.. we have our own plugins, we write our own tools.. and this goes without saying- your threads contribute nothing to the board.. there is no 'holy software war'.. every time someone posts a question about blender a fucker like you have to interrupt with 'download maya its actually free if you use the student version lolz'. your an obnoxious human being and i can't wait until you get the fuck outta this board.
>>663612Will you please code UDIM support for me, then?
>>663613do it yourself man it's open source and python can do everything]:^)
>>663596>The difference between a true first class C++ plugin API like Maya's and "its open sourceYeah, the difference is that one allows you access to everything, while the other is restricting.Literally everything in your post was wrong, and you still have the balls to tell someone else that they lack arguments? You Autocucks are exactly like Apple-fans. It's not about the tools for you, it's just brand.
>>663648if you don't understand the difference>~1.7mil sloc(or is it 2+ mil now already?) yet open source codebase with largely non-existent documentationbetween>well-documented but closed source APIthere is _literally_ no point discussing anything code-related with you fren
>>663663>Maya API is well documentedIs that why the devs can't even manage to make the base software operate at anything remotely resembling stability? :^)
>>663612Did you have a stroke or something? Is that why you're like this? Your emotional seesawing is just crazy.>>663730Maya has fixed a lot of its stability problems recently. Zbrush and Houdini crash way more often than Maya on my machine. Exception: spamming the undo key. Maya certainly fucks that one up. On the other hand, pressing undo in Blender takes about 5 minutes to process, so between the two I prefer simply remembering to wait a second between ctrl+z's in Maya.
>>663734>Zbrush and Houdini crash way more often than Maya on my machineZbrush and Houdini crash when you overload your memory, because there's no hard limit on how much polygons/how crazy simulations you can (attempt) to make.Maya crashes and corrupts your save, despite there being nothing but a cube in the scene, and it does so regularly. It's broken as fuck.
>>663739I've had plenty of segfaults in Houdini, which probably have more to do with imprecise memory management than with overloading RAM. I've also had a few "corrupted" saves (they are not really corrupted I think, rather they reproduce the steps that led to the crash in the first place), usually the ones that go in the temp folder during a crash, but I tend to save every few minutes so it's a non-issue.Not disputing your points, just adding my personal experience.
>>663739I'm getting consistent crashes in 17.416 when I edit VOPs which write to Cd, and also corrupted viewport data. These scenes are not particularly large.
>>660262>>660322>>662513Something tells me AutoDesk cares a lot more about giant studios and professionals over 1-5 person teams and will send a guy on a plane if a problem arises if they had to. Same way with any software, the money is in big liscenses, 100s of keys bought at a time, gotta keep them happy
>>663613https://blenderartists.org/t/addon-cycles-multi-tile-udim-non-destructive-painting/645425Did you meant, this
>>659634Aren't blender was used for uncharted 4 models?
>>664292No, I meant native UDIM support, not a third-party band-aid which may or may not survive long enough for the completion of a given project.>Now we need to create the bunch of materials, one for each uv tile, needed to synchronize the whole system. This is not a real UDIM system, what this add-on does is create a material for every uv tile and then synchronize each other using those layers groups and the ui. When you do something in one material, it will be reproduced in the rest of the materials.That's from the page. In the discussion thread, the author himself says:>I was told blender is going to include UDIM, another reason to discard any further development in this. Actually, in the latest versions this addon crash quite easily. I do not know anything else the native UDIM in blender, I think it needs to fix and create many other basic and more important features.
>>664292How do those displacement map seams look huh? It would be hard to make them worse than the displacement map seams you get with just a single tile in shitty inadequate-for-production-rendering Cycles
>>664304We all know that there are cases of Cycles being used in production. Please don't try to rob Blender users of their only joy.
Pros: youre learning something likely not a lot of people useCons:jobs are scarce compared to maya or zbrush. Studios arent going to spend millions possibly billions of dollars redeveloping pipeline tools theyve been using for years. Dont waste your time. Learn whats used in the industry.
>fit curve in array only follows length and not the shape.>have to use another modifier called curve for that Literary the first modifier fucks you in the ass. I swear on mi mom's name, Blender.
>>662270Whats the difference between armature based and node based rigging? Why is bone based considered antiquated?