The sheer amount of knowledge and expertise required to be a 3D artist is closer to a computer scientist.Yet you see graphic designers rake in more dough.Where did we go wrong bros?
>>622195You chose poorly and your services are replaceable with cheap work from pajeets and zerglings. Deal with it.
In some threads people are writing how hard this field is and how many years it takes to make anything good looking, while in other threads I just read about how replaceable 3D artists are since anyone can easily learn this. Huh.
>>622198Same can be said of graphic design, so really, what's the real factor here?
>>622206>anyone can easily learn this>you get what you pay for(and what you deserve when you outsource shit to india or china)
>>622221But plebs don't care about (nor can appreciate) fine 3D art. And do you know what the majority of our market is composed of? Yeah, you guessed it: plebs.
>>622195You have to do both and you have to be really really good. Don't let that eat you up inside. The ignition is to make things that are equitable to your inspirational whims that are REALLY GOOD LOOKING. All subtext and jargon need to be handled subsequently and presentation is everything. The only way you can command a high threshold is to make it seem like you can execute at that level. If you don't learn the ins and outs you have no excuse and no leverage.
>>622195well it really depends on where you are workingif you are a senior artist working on triple a games/movies then you get paid 90k+/year, but this is a very very small communityif you are a junior artist that has a lot of potential you can work in large companies and get paid 50-60k/yearif you are some shitartist you get paid fuckall
>>622195What do you consider is too little?
>>622195just do porn lol
>>622195the pay isn't bad, the main problem is you are expected to do unpaid overtime or over hours paid at for the payment of regular hours while sleeping at the office, sometimes every once in a month, sometimes for whole months (this is basically what crunch)people at entry-level positions are replaceable as fuck not only because of outsourcing companies abroad but also because there is a lot of jobless 3d n00b artists with sufficient skills to make rocks, furniture, gribble, and grassgraphic designers only rake more cash either by being very proactive freelancers (being a good freelancer is a skill set of its own) or because of seniority. novice graphic designers who check for proper alignment before printing make shit money and can be replaced by interns or their peers on a heartbeat. depending on which industry they work they might crunch a lot too (marketing mainly)
>>622256>if you are a senior artist working on triple a games/movies then you get paid 90k+/year, but this is a very very small community>if you are a junior artist that has a lot of potential you can work in large companies and get paid 50-60k/yearThese are not high paying salaries in big cities anymore. There are designers in tech companies pulling between 200-300k doing UI mockups in photoshop.
I think the vfx industry is the big culprit of keeping wages down. VFX doesn't have money because of how Hollywood has studios by their balls. So their job offers are basically "take it or leave it" unless you are a rockstar top 5 category artist.Then there are backroom studio agreements. Pixar, Dreamworks, Disney were found guilty of wage fixing and preventing artists from job hopping for better pay.Not to mention colleges have been selling the Hollywood dream and every year there are more graduates with more updated skillsets, competing for the same jobs and the demand for these jobs hasn't grown with the supply.
>>622210the real factor is that we overestimate the number of applications that 3D can be used on.we assume that we live in some kind of "future" where 3D is incredibly popular, which is simply not the case.i already explained in a previous post how 2D is more essential than 3D but people won't listen.the very few applications that 3D is needed in, is covered by professional studious that do it for years, so there is little to no competition
>>6222841) UI design is incredibly hard2) They bring in one guy from a pool of famous guys that have been doing it for years as a contractor 3) he gets paid incredibly well and then leavesIt would be like saying "well pediatric neurosurgeons make the most money, go be one of them"
>>622298>UI design is incredibly hardAre you serious? Inb4 "try learning it, you don't know anything about it". Well, I'm certainly not a pro, but I did do some work for a serious business and wrote a lot about UI design in uni. It's certainly not easy, but come on. Everything looks so similar nowadays, and I'm always amazed when I watch video critiques about stuff like login forms and what not, like, what the fuck do you even have to talk about it anymore, it's literally just a few textboxes one under the other and a button at the bottom. The aesthetics come from a type, spacing, colors etc. but the structure is so basic and it just works. Every news portal is more or less the same when you analyze that shit. When I was thinking about doing it for a living, I was insulted when I saw how much people are trashing the UX, but now that I'm distanced from it, I can see how much of the stuff they talk about is a one big meme. I remember writing a shitton of pseudo-psychological shit in my final project about UI/UX and now I cringe. All these persona generations, user flow, eye movements etc. I mean, fine, but don't act like it's some extremely complicated stuff. It all boils down to user testing and refining ad nauseam. It's not easy, but I definitely think it's overrated. Prove me wrong please, maybe I got dunning-kruger'd.
>>622301I dont think personally you arr wrong, but I think you forgot how retarded people are. I can handle navigation through a filesystem with a command line interface.My mom cant handle a file browser on her phone and doesnt know how to log in to gmail.The point is, people, especially older ones and young ones, are really, really dumb. Incredibly dumb in fact.UX is an endless job because there is always someobe incredibly DUMB who doesnt get it.I work in web design and work closely with a guy who did UX for 30 years, he gives me a mock and I make sure to make it responsive and fit site boundaries, and I handle UI on other stuff aswell. I show stuff to my workm8s who sre progrsmmers and they handle it well. I show it to my aging boss and the dude cant even figure out where to click or how to drag.Different types of people handle different types of UI. The most common ( and disgusting) type of tech illiterate people are the ones that simply refuse to learn and use brain cells when put in front of a monitor. You can put a giant text box and a row above that says in bold "Put your name in" and they will ask me what are they supposed to do.I think UX is more of a battle of eits than tech or expertise at this point. I know the entire spec of CSS and HTML and I still cant figure out how to handle retards.
>>622303*Battle of wits
>>622303I completely agree with this, I wanted to add this to my previous comment but you said everything already. Just now I went to YT to watch some UI critiques just because. The stuff they talk about is so basic, man. Some guy forgot to put "About" link in his personal website. Somebody else put abstract images without any textual explanation in his portfolio section. I mean, come the fucking on now. Then I went through some new UX podcast I found and they all repeat the same shit constantly. I skipped through the video and the first thing I saw on the slide is exactly what I wrote about in the previous post. Sooo much shitposting about personas and the user's mind. But yes, it is needed, because apparently a lot of people really do lack common sense. And I also get pissed when I see older people unable to figure out how to do some basic shit like writing a message in gmail. Dude, there is literally a big red button at the top left of the screen, with a "new message" written on it. At these times I really question all of the bullshit I learned, like color theory in web design, z-patterns, spacing and all the other shit. It seems that nothing helps. You have huge books talking about that shit and full teams of pro designers working on a single button placement and there are still a lot of users that can't figure it out.
>>622195>The sheer amount of knowledge and expertise required to be a 3D artist is closer to a computer scientist.lmao are you fucking serious.
>>622310If you are going to be a high level generalist, then you need to be good at poly modelling, sculpting, rigging, lighting, texturing, animating, matte painting, render/delivery workflows and Python, MEL, VEX, MaxScript customization.All these disciplines are deep enough that you could spend a lifetime specializing and never finish learning. Before that you need to have a basic understanding of fine art: proportions, perspective, colour theory.All these streams of knowledge take a lot of time to acquire and master and to use effectively in the right situations.
Every form of art is a passion, not a jobIf you get paid to do it, great, but don't expect to be rich doing something that millions of people do for fun
>>622337Would like to see Martha from accounting do an FX sim on a creature shotSurely it cant be harder than knitting.
>>6223373d artist is a job. You think the games you play are being made by McDonald employees who do 3d as a hobby?
>>622310aside from basic artistic competences (being able to use texture, color, and light; understanding how proportions affect the perception of traits and emotions; understanding movement and mood) you need to be a power user of whatever software your company uses (pretty much know all the shortcut, know the full production pipeline even if you just work in a single step of it, being able to do basic or even advanced scripting) which will change if you switch jobs or just after a sufficient amount of time passesit is not brain surgery or control tower management, but it is still a fairly deep skillset>>622337>don't expect to be rich doing something that millions of people do for funa person being able to do 3D for fun and as a hobby is not necessarily as skilled and efficient as people doing it professionally, even if those professionals work for small companies like LeapFrog, SuperCell, or some obscure indie game developer
>>622195>Yet you see graphic designers rake in more dough.Because Graphic Design is what you go into if you want to have a career. Graphic Arts is what you go in if you want to be happy.Wait until Google starts to develop AI for 3D modelling and animation.
>>622195>Closer to a computer scientistThat's pushing it a little
>>622415yupit is like being a graphic designer (yes, you can create 'pretty' things, but you are heavily constrained by the current trends and expectations of commercial entertainment production)
2D and illustration is even worse than 3D
In the society we live today,Only the middleman and long-nosed money changers that does nothing of value to society got to benefit off your labor
>>622429I would argue illustrators and concept artists need more fine art skill than graphic designers.
>>622308Its just what it is. For me the only way I personally am able to say what is good UX is when I enter a program with an express purpose and the program makes it very easy to find whatever it is I want, no gimmick or obtuse behavior, maybe just a nudge in the right direction showing you're doing it "the right way".Everything else and you are entering basically guess work territory. I do think theres logic to stuff like color theory but I think its eventually secondary to the issue of proper intuitive design, which in itself is a pretty subjective thing as what I consider immediately obvious, my neighbor scratches his head over.I cant even call it common sense anymore when its the opposite of common. I hope this fad changes as generstions switch and people like my mom are phased out and no longer catered for, but young people are often a problem all their own.To put it shortly, I feel alot of the principles of UX is prerty psuedo science and while its fairly easy to recognize aesthetic design, its usability is entirely dependant on the person its presented to.
>>622492>people like my mom are phased outWhy do you want your mom to die Steve?
>>622495Alas, my name is not Steve, and me mum's a cunt.But no I mean I dont people to cater to then.
>>622504Made me laugh. Good job Peter
>>622341knitting can be hard bro...
Because the long nose tribe demands it
You should be greatful to get a wage for doing what is essentially a hobbyThere are real men and women out there doing REAL work like administration, accounting, scientific research etc. while you expect pity for doodling on a tablet. I spit on you.
>>625153Can bait be even more obvious than this?
i eont think is badly paid unless youre a junior starting. you get to participate in new content, interesting stuff. now, modelers are generic. animators, riggers and investigators is where is at. new techs brah! the world doesnt stop!
>>625179>modelers are generic. animators, riggers and investigators is where is atThis. Kick a rock, a thousand ZBrush artists appear.How many TDs, though?
>>625153This is a bait, but I will still mention that fact that programmers and webdevs (something which you can also call a hobby for a lot of people) earn shitloads of money, so your reply doesn't make much sense. Hell, even Unity programmers can earn retarded amounts of $. How tf does knowing how to use a framework pay more than something which takes years to master and where you need to have a knowledge of a dozen or so different programs to do your work?
>>625196>tdTechnical directors or? How do you even become one?
>>625213If I knew of a pathway when I was entering uni I would've become one. Had no idea it was a thing. I thought artistry led onto becoming a TD, apparently not.Fucked my future in so many ways, just hoping crypto bulls again or the rest of my life is a miserable disaster
>>625215You can study on your own. Fuck the university.If you have an artistic eye and an interest in technical matters (programming mostly, with a bit of math), all you need is time, learning materials, and dedication.
>>622195Up your portfolio nigga! I currently work for a local Alcohol company's campaign currently and raking quite a substantial profit. Planning to updgrade my PC to an 18-core i9 and buying 2 quaddros to help with the renders. Heck, maybe even 4.
>>622195Supply and demand are the only factors in price.If your job has more people willing to apply than actual positions,a company can set the bar as low as minimum wage knowing someone will probably take it.3D work is uncommon, or at least more scarce than 2D illustration, concept, graphic design, etc.The time put into making yourself qualified has nothing to do with how much you get payed.It only limits others from seeking that position.Thus driving the price up.As much as you'd like to think 3D is hard, it's not.I've seen autistic teenagers do triple A work.However, it's very time consuming to learn, practice, and produce work.
>>622298>UI design is incredibly hard
>>625268>I've seen autistic teenagers do triple A work.Truth be told, autists can succeed in anything because they have a one track mind.3D is a very secluded and lonely job, autists thrive in this environment but due to their nature they are very timid, effeminate and exploitable, they're not the kind of people demanding higher wages.Now let's get to the truth, I disagree with OP, if you are a well-rounded person who is generally a pleasure to be around, few pints after work, non-cringey hobbies etc., You may initially enter the industry at a low wage but by your own pursuit, personality and persistence you will naturally find a happy wage-level in your fieldDon't be a timid worker drone, nobody respects him, he may produce the best work in-house and gets admiration momentarily, but on a nature level normies don't respect him.Feign being a normie if you must, life gets MUCH better, any excuses are COPE.Many of us are not autists, we are simply socially immature. Become a well-rounded person and positions will open up and you'll have room to maneuver. Nepotism is king in this industry, I'm sorry to say.
>>625502>Nepotism is king in every industryHad to fix that for you, sadly.
I think the problem lies mostly in the fact that because most 3d artists really want to work in 3d and enjoy it, they put up with a lot more than other fields, including longer hours and worse pay, afraid to say anything because they donot want to lose the dream jobOne area where this is not the case though is industrial design modeling, especially in automotive. A 3d modeler working for an automotive company can probably expect to make around 50k to 70k starting. I think this is because the artists in this industry like the work less, treat it more like actual work and business as opposed to a fun dream job, and so are more willing to stand up for competitive pay and fair hours. Foreign workers also aren't as good at CAD modeling on the cheap, and since the auto industry oozes money, its easier just to employ local talent
>>625502This this this this this 100% this.To be as blunt as possible this field attracts people with absolute zero social skills who couldn’t navigate their way through a conversation if it meant life or death.Not all of them but a huge amount of artists are meek timid shy hardly ever go to the gym, what I’m getting at is that these guys get pushed around and taken advantage of because the higher ups know they can get away with it. It’s why this field works more over time with no pay than any other field
I work with 3D and I make more than decent money. But I work for a architecture and engineering company making rendered buldings and interior scenes, people here making fantasy characters are just wasting their time.
>>626184Do you mind if I ask, how much architecture or engineering you need to know to work doing 3d design and visualization for architecture? I want to get into it but I'm not very strong at math. Also, what would a decent portfolio to get into such a place contain? How difficult is the bar for entry?
>>626192I'm pretty sure my situation and experience won't work as reference to you at all, but let's go>how much architecture or engineering you need to know to work doing 3d design and visualization for architecture?I graduated in architecture, most of the people who work like me are also architecture graduates or students, the engineers who know 3D modeling are most likely not from civil engineer and work with completely different softawres for less artistic purposes. There are people who don't have a masters in either architecture or engineer who work with the visualization of the project, but it is harder for them to land a job, because they can only work with the visualization, but not in the project itself.tl;dr: You need to know only modeling in theory, knowing architecture will help a lot, engineers do other things>Also, what would a decent portfolio to get into such a place contain?It's a good start, but it may not be enough>How difficult is the bar for entry?It huuuge variation from place to plcace. I aplied for sevaral possitions while in college and only get one in my 9th semester, some of my classmates got one since the first semester. It is sad, but social skills and the right conections are almost as important as the modeling skills
>>626196>Also, what would a decent portfolio to get into such a place contain?Read that wrong, sorryRendered pictures of houses, buldings and rooms, mostly. No one cares about modeling people here, you can just download a model and slap in into the room if you feel like having humans in there (personaly, I like inserting them in photoshop latter), urban environment is also nice.
>>625292You can develop the artistic eye. What is the artistic eye? It's a series of habits and considerations. Not some mystical mutation.
>>622195saturation. everyone now thinks, " muh 3d," is cool, trendy and a cash cow. this makes other media more rare and thus a commodity it's supply and demand.
>>622429You've got to be kidding.As someone who is into drawing and painting who's currently trying to get a grasp of 3d for funsies, it's ridiculous the amount of shit you have to deal with in 3d, as opposed to my brush and color pallet in photoshop.I literally cannot think in 3d while I'm doing 3d right now because I get so lost in all the shit I have to deal with, it's a nightmare.
>>625268>However, it's very time consuming to learn...Well, yeah, assuming you're somewhat intelligent, that's what "hard" means.
>>622301I'm currently studying how to design UI and UX. 99% of the lectures and assignments, is about how to make sure Neanderthals, can navigate around it since if they get confused once, they will either; pay someone else to do it for them or just quit and find a product, that is more child friendly. So no UI is easy, user friendly UI is hard.
what's the best resources to learn ui/ux?I want to make 300k too
>>626227other anon here. Trust me proper 2D illustrative work is a LOT harder than decent 3D work. Only if get into the reall thick meat where you need experience in 3-5 programs for a finished project, possible including animation then 3D gets complicated.In general, to reach industry standard illustrative skills takes longer than 3D because 2D requires an artistic background. 3D is like taking historylessons. Its a simple fact and number check.
>>622195Work for a startup. 3d modeling and techniqual drawing is just part of my workload. 3d printing and general manufacturing knowledge is what makes me valuable. Dont be a 1 field slave, be a chad with several specialities.
>>6262522d has a higher skill floor and lower technical floor3d has a lower skill floor but a much higher technical flooras far as ceilings go, i'd suggest that 3d has the higher skill and technical ceiling, but so few people reach that absurd level that it's hardly worth discussing compared to the number of people who can and do reach a 2d skill ceiling
>>626242>I want to make 300k toobetter make all your dick sucking more than a hobby then
Start working on AR/spatial UI/UX now; it'll pay off within the next 5-10 years.
>>626252>3D doesn't require an artistic backgroundwhat a fucking idiot