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What is some cool japanese animations that make use of 3D?
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>>603557
>What is some cool japaense animations...
There are plenty of tho-
>that make use of 3D
...
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>>603566
Well, houseki no kuni is pretty cool but OP already knows that
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>>603568
3D Animation, much like PC games, are really rare inside of japan.
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>>603557
3D Anime was a mistake
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>>603557
Ehh, well there are countless anime that make use of 3D in some capacity, but as far as all-CG goes, HnK is pretty much the first one that left me wanting for nothing, especially since they actually made use of the 3D to make scenes more dynamic rather than a purely stylistic choice.
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>>603596
I don't know but this just looks wrong...
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>>603612
That's what you get with 5 people and a barebones budget.

And it still beat every other show that season.
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>>603612
Yup, characters and environment are out of sync.
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>>603557
Outside of video games, nothing.
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Not sure why you made this thread, OP. It was just going to be a bunch of elitists saying 2D can't be done in 3D again. Just like the other thread a guy was trying to model his first animu.

Shit always happens, it's inevitable.
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>>603614
The absolute state of the Anime industry
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>>603570
>really rare
>>603557
all anime is made in 3d.
all of it.
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>>603614
>>603660
omg

>>603596
that really look bad

>>603659
OP here, fuck i missed that thread, my bad sry

I know there is that Blame movie, Berserk and Final Fantasy Kingslgaive. Well I guess there is still not much 3d content from japan.
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>>603687
Cause anime is made cheap, 3d is not cheap, cheap 3d is absolute crap. If you want 3d from Japan it's that rare movie or change for games.
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>>603808
* Cg for games.
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>>603687
>Berserk
>3D
OP asked "what is some cool japanese animations that make use of 3D?"
"cool"
Please tell me you're not serious.
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>>604326
yeah sry I know its shit, I watched it, I just put it there because its 3D
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>>603557
God Eater made some good use of 3D.
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>>603557
Frame Arms Girl is a trash anime with it's low-budget/unpolished pre-vis looking 3D animation that becomes incredibly obvious at certain scenes, but it's actually pretty entertaining if you were already into plastic model stuff and like anime waifus
Honestly, I think the 3D models are pretty neatly done and serves it's purpose pretty well, and at times it looks great in stills.
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>>604329
More like Ass Eater
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>>604374
First and second from the left have the same hair. Why?
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>>604412
Because they're literally the same model with different colours. In the anime they're characterised as sisters.
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The actual movie was meh, but I found the animation quality impressive in Kingsglaive
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>>604420
It's not just me thinking the knees are too low, right?

>>603557
I thought Arpeggio was ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4GuiZPyyc0
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I never see people talking about Bubuki Buranki.

I thought they got really good at trying to be more 2d.

Is it because the story was ok-ish that people forgot about it?
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>>606016
I'm just going to post more

Here's more of the cutie hedgehog.

Notice how in all the gif's the shaders are basic, but the whole magic is in how they animate it.
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>>606017
Posting the best girl.

By limiting variety in lip flaps, you get more traditional anime look.
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>>606018
now this part really shows why lowering fps and using rapid, extreme poses is important. I advice going frame by frame to see the quick jumps from one pose to the other. It would look much worse in 60fps, it would loose all it's character.
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>>606019
Here's another example.

also notice how they use speed lines, and and animation smears, by either putting a 3d white curve for one frame, and moving some verts of the weapon a bit behind the movement.

Basically if you want to have 3d look more like 2d, you need to animate it like 2d, and use 2d techniques
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>>606020
Consistency in colors and materials, and post processing. That robot thing, could have been made with some metal materials, but they went with consistency, instead of fancier technology, which would look out of place.

You don't want to do what God Eater>>604329 has done where non human characters look completely out of place because they have some procedural texture slapped onto them. Seriously, Humans looked fine, but the monsters were looked like they were taken out of the game, and they just did not blend well.
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>>606021
More dynamic poses with minimal tween for the slower "non moving parts" and more smears.

Background moving at higher fps, than the character
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>>606022
Little trick like that, and you get a familiar look.
It's 3 frames with different, random verts moved up.
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>>606023
This IS the Global Standard!

Characters must be pretty high poly to keep all curves so smooth.
They can let themselves higher poly characters with small size texture maps, but I wonder how much difference it actually makes in rendering times.
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>>606024
Major shading is done with editing normals, but I wonder if the small detail e.g. her nose when angry is done the same way ( that would require a lot of density), or if it's just and extra small object separate from the head and put there on the face for just few frames, or it could be just added shape post render. I doubt it's the 3rd.
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>>606025
And when you want to make something too extreme for your mesh, you just swap meshes.
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>>606027
and that's it from me. I don't want to be forcing this thread to stay alive, unless someone wants to join and discuss.

here's a quick video I found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT7FQn-6LMk

and I just couldn't help myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzUcTp_Kqfc
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>>606016
>>606017
>>606018
>>606019
>>606020
>>606022
>>606023
>>606024
>>606025
>>606027
>>606035
>>606021
Nice analysis! thx I'll check that out
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There is also the upcoming Batman movie (made by Kamikaze Douga ,who also made the 3d Jojo's openings)
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>>606035
Damn this stuff looks really good, but the forms are too consistent and kinda gives it away.
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>>604565
That's probably because they sourced the animation to the companies who did the Assassins Creed trailers and District 9.
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>>606068
Yeah and it looks fucking good
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>>606050
You are welcome.
>>606064
What if they used very small lattice squash and stretch on every frame?

>>606053
The shading already reminds me of the CG Berserk. Not good.
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>>606035
I’m not really into anime, but your posts have been very insightful. Thanks for taking the time to share.
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>>603557
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRQzPlU1VMg
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>>606035
I just noticed that her left eye gets bigger when she turns her head.
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>>604565
This is autism, video game cutscene tier animation and everything looks like plastic.
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Beserk looks like someone animated it with their pp
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>>606100
>I’m not really into anime
I cannot blame you, and you are welcome

>>606177
I tried to pin point the frame you were talking about, but it wasn't anything major. Wouldn't that be caused because the eyes are actually flat planes and not spheres?

>>606262
and when even 3d stills look ugly.
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>>606267
Kind of. What I've been noticing when people are trying to do that whole "3d anime" kind of face, they do some slightly fancy things when it comes to the faces. Particularly the eyes. From what I've seen, you don't want the eyes to be completely flat, because you want to be able to see the model from multiple angles. And in order to do that, depending on how you make your eyes, they might have to move around on the face, get bigger, or smaller.

On >>606035 it looks like there's a very small size increase on the left eye in order to make it look a bit more proportional with the right eye. This was done somewhat seamlessly since she's blinking, and while her eye opens, they made the adjustment.
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>>604565
Wasnt made by japs, most of the animation was made in poland, hungary and canada.
Visual Works and Marza dosnt even have a fraction of the staff needed for such a project.
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>>606196
Like >>606329 said, it went to multiple countries (Also India, France and China too, but everyone seems to ignore that fact).

That picture from Digic's part, And I can see where you're coming from considering they've mainly done cinematic works.
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>>606024
I'm impressed if that cut is 3d. Usually they can't get it to look so fleshy.
Sanzigen is a good studio though. They improved a lot after that Cyborg 009 Re Cyborg movie, which didn't look too great.

I think a lot of their shading is done with Pencil+ where you paint maps to define what verts will be in light or shadow together based on light direction. Arc Sys uses normal editing though.

Kamikaze Douga is another good studio.

Can anyone interpret how to use this setup for Blender to make a Maya node network to better control shadows?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/65cwf6kjuezhwdl/GuilltyGearXrd_shader.pdf?dl=0
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>>606324
Where'd you get this image? Do you have a behind the scenes video? That would be amazing.
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>>606474
Image was from here
http://otakucalendarjapan.com/?p=21979

And here's a progress video of Orange working on the hair models for land of the lustrous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb9YmmQG4iQ

If you look closely, you can actually see the eyes moving as the model rotates. They're curved planes lifted slightly off the model that they move left/right depending on the angle.
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>>606324
surface under the eye is not completely flat, and parts of eyes are constrained to it, so you wouldn't get empty spaces at different angles.

>>606473
it's not defining verts, it's changing the angle of corresponding normlas. There are 2 texture maps, one for with everything having base color, and the other with color of shadows. You build a shader that uses one of the 2 maps depending on normlas angle. It all can be done in Blender.

What we don't have is easier way of editing normals like what they used with softimage for guilty gear xrd.

Check out http://blendernpr.org it has a lot of usefull info.

>>606500
It's always very interesting to see other people work.
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>>606500
professional topology... It proves that in cell shaded npr contour is the most important, because all those other edges are painful to look at.
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>>606519
yeah lol, but since their shading is really simple, I wonder if they still have to subdivide the model?
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>>606521
They use like 6 rendering layes and then post process everything. Maybe they try to cut down on rendering time with simpler topology. It may also be to form sharper edges by using longer faces.

But seriously, that wireframe looks like my first head in blender.
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>>606523
ah okay
yeah it does look really simple, it seems like they don't have to care about the nostrils, the eyes and even attaching the ears and the neck, knowing that I don't know how you could improve the mesh (I only made a few really simple characters myself...), and the final result still look okay
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>nobody has ever mentioned seismic yet
wow, what a bunch of fags.
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>>606579
Liru DLC never
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seeing all these productions using 3ds max makes me want to check it out, but isn't it going to get shoaed like softimage did?
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>>606999
>but isn't it going to get shoaed like softimage did?
No way, Max is Audodesk's centerpiece, it's not likely to go any less than Maya. Max is so often used because of the Pencil+ renderer, so if you want to try your hand at some of the same effects they use, you'll have to figure out a way to get your hands on it. I think there are only old installs floating around online for earlier Max versions, so don't expect to have the latest and greatest, unless you actually shell out the 60k yen ($565) for it.
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Does Pencil+ actually lead to good cell-shading or could you get the same result by tweaking the normals by hand? Do you need to tweak the normals anyway with Pencil+?
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There's that terrible Tekken movie what reeks of Uncanny Valley...
then there's Tamala 2010, which was actually pretty decent.
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>>606500
Thanks!
I'm still a little confused about how Pencil+ helps them control the shadows on a subdivided model.
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there's so many different ways people are doing flat eyes
>concave white, freefloating iris poly
>latticed sphere
>texture projection
>2d eyes on a floating plane w/alpha

how are they doing it in >>606025 with such nice iris control?
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>>607167
>Pencil+

What the FUCK I've never heard of this

can you still bake the lighting to the color map if you use this thing? It looks sick AF.
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>>603557
All of Guilty Gear Xrd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_xYdKaIyNM
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>>607194
looks and plays like shit.
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>>607196
>looks like shit.
Practically revolutionized 2D looking 3D animation in games. Here's the whole talk on how they achieved it, go learn something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGjCzxJV3E
>plays like shit.
Irrelevant.
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>>607197
>Practically revolutionized 2D looking 3D animation in games.
looks horrible compared to the champ, KoF 13

also plays horrible. Not much more to discuss.
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>>607198
Which is 2D animation, and therefore also irrelevant to the discussion. Good job anon, now put your fanboi hateboner away and stop derailing the thread.
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>>607199
>2d animation is irrelevant
>Practically revolutionized 2D looking 3D animation in games.

what the fuck are you on about. Are you this retarded? It looks WORSE.
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>>607200
This thread is about Japanese 3D animation, that's the damn point.

>It looks WORSE.
Way to miss the point. They didn't use 3D because it looks better, they used it because it's far cheaper and easier to iterate/add unto.
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>>607198
There is a fundamental disconnect here you're not catching onto here, mate: 3D was used by SNK to streamline the grueling pipeline of creating 2D sprite art for fighting games. 2D and sprites were always the goal and by the time the renders are through the post-processing pipeline, so little 3D is left from the originals that the impression people get is that these are hand-drawn sprites through and through.

ARCSYS objective with GG is that they didn't want to compete with themselves since they already had BlazBlue in the 2D front. So they jumped headfirst into creating a pipeline that has the animation and feel of 2D, but still has 3D as the ultimate goal.

Throwing KoF in here is pointless, KoF is a fighting game based on 2D sprites, GG is a fighting game based on 3D models. Comparing the art styles is like comparing apples to oranges.
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>>607201
>Comparing 2d to 3d made to "look" 2d
>When someone points out the quality of the result being worse than the gold standard 2d is suddenly off topic and irrelevant

Geez this is /sci/ levels of autism
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>>607204
It's only worse if you don't factor in the benefits of 3D, simpleton.
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>>607202
Apples and oranges are both fruits are they not? When it comes down to it, both 2d and 3d fighters project onto a 2d non VR non stereo display making the methods to get that final result irrelevant
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>>607207
Oh my God..
It's EASIER and CHEAPER yet achieves almost the same results. That's why it's revolutionary, not because it looks better. You can't be a 3D artist if you don't understand this, are you just visiting from /v/? That would explain a lot.
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>>607209
Like you said, kof used 3d to create sprites yet you consider that 2d and not 3d all the while sucking off gg which is objectively shit looking and playing
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>>607210
>Like you said
That wasn't me, that post was a friendly passer by schooling you.

>yet you consider that 2d
Pre-rendered 3D (with added illustration no less) is not 3D. Donkey Kong Country is not 3D

>while sucking off gg
See, this is what you're so angry about that you can't think rationally right now. I don't want to see your hateboner anon, put it back in your pants. I don't care that you think KOF is a superior game.
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>>607207
>>607210
Forget the damn fruits, mate. The point is that KoFXIII is ultimately sprite-based and GG uses 3D models. The 2D projection plane in this case only serves to limit character movement to a specific axis, it has no additional bearing on the art style choice.

If you want a reasonable comparison, you'd have to pit BlazBlue against KoFXIII and GG against something like KoFXIV.

>>607210
You're missing the point of the thread, though I guess this comes to a shitty wording of the OP: this thread is about animations in the 3D medium that mimic the look and feel of 2D animation as best as possible. This means they're still inherently comprised of 3D meshes in 3D animation and rendering software. KoFXIII may at some point have had 3D as part of the pipeline but by the time the characters are finished, they are 2D sprites through and through.

And I'm not the same anon that's arguing with you as well, I'm not sure why you're pushing so hard the idea that KoF may or may not play better than GG, this is a 3D-oriented board so I'm pretty sure nobody really gives a shit how either game plays and that's really not pertinent to the discussion.
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>>607212
>Pre rendered 3d is not 3d

You are retarded
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>>606517
>There are 2 texture maps, one for with everything having base color, and the other with color of shadows. You build a shader that uses one of the 2 maps depending on normlas angle. It all can be done in Blender.
is this how it's done in pencil+?
i'm not having much luck searching for useful info on this kind of shading, can you explain how to set this up or point me towards some more info?
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>>607192
They could aslo be swapping models
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>>607218
no, it's not. Pencil+ uses just materials and gradients.
And for an add-on costing 60480 Yen, it really doesn't do anything that blender cannot.

Check out http://blendernpr.org
They have tutorial on how to build shaders like in pencil+, and more
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>>607238
i checked that site and was able to make a nice two-tone toon shader, but i'm not seeing how to get the little shadow areas around the nose like in the bubuki buranki gifs above
even some info from different software to give some insight would be great
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>>608389
You can
edit normals or
edit UVs like in guilty gear xrd for black lines or
actually model the shape of the shadow with shadeless color and animate that
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>>607192
who latticed sphere masterrace here?
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>>608425
Shadeless color? Like model the shadows as separate geo on top of the regular model and animate it as a separate piece?
Never heard of doing that before though it might work...
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>>606025
I actually do think it's the third. There's a slight out of sync bounce with the nose and the face as it nods, and the nose doesn't really change shape in the first place.
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>>608705
>>606025
Or it's a painted map that gets subsampled in the shader, like normal mapping. Seems like a better workflow and more optimal than increasing geometric complexity.
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>>608593
Latticed sphere master race reporting in.
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Etotama. Looks pretty good. I suspect that the 3D animation layouts were actually drawn by the 2D animators.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMd0qKUwZMw
Youtube compression/framerate makes it looks way worse than it actually is.

Show By Rock if you like Sonic the Hedgehog cutscenes and good Japanese music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTRyE15t5eM

Some shorts from the animator expo were done in full 3D because studio Khara seems to think that 3D animation and mocap is the future. I don't totally agree with them but some of the more stylized 3D shorts were really good.
Get it here https://nyaa.si/view/743252
Episodes 2, 12, 16, 20b, 24, 33 and 35 are the full 3D ones.
Episodes 24 and 35 show the best use of 3D in my opinion.
All the episodes are worth watching, a lot of them use CGI in one way or another. Episode 11 is really good.

>>604584
Yeah it was pretty good but it suffers from the
>let's just render our shit at 12 fps to imitate limited animation without actually understanding limited animation lol
Which is fucking infuriating.
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>>610204
And I forgot to add that everything produced by Studio Rikka (Pale Cocoon, Time of Eve, Patema) usually looks pretty good but most of their characters are still drawn in 2D.
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>>607192
>>concave white, freefloating iris poly
Seems to be the most usual way they do it. At least every MMD model I ever downloaded worked like that. They use shape keys for facial expressions, including iris control.
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>>610208
What color theme are you using? Looks pretty comfy for seeing the mesh.
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>>610226
It's called Modern Minimalist, it's available by default.
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>>603612
You mean other than how she god damn slides across the ground like it's made of ice?
>>
>>610227
Thanks




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