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/3/ - 3DCG

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Hi /3/

Weight painting is hell. I've been struggling for the past weeks and that shit is about to make me give up, which is really frustrating cause every other field (modeling, texturing) so far I was able to overcome eventually with enough time spent and looking at tutorials, but for some reason in depth weight painting stuff seems to be a rarity.

Shoulders and pelvic/legs especially are brutal to weight paint and I've literally tried everything.

Is there any way to actually overcome that shit without wanting to shoot oneself in the head ?

I've hit rock bottom, any kind of help/tip would be appreciated.
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Use a better app.
This triggers the Blendlet
So hm, any way to have an actual conversation about this ?
for some reason the weight paint tools in blender completely stop working for me sometimes so yeah it is one of the shittier aspects of blender
Ah, sorry to hear that bro, I also use Blender and the weight tools do seem to be a bit underwhelming to say the least.

What do you mean, stop working ? I found sometimes playing around with the auto normalize and multi-paint options can fuck things up a lot, maybe there's a relation.
what is the problem tho?
why is your brush strength so low?
press 'z' to go into wireframe view while weight painting.
thank me later.
>Hey guys, I have a problem
>I'm just going to say that I have problem with weight painting in general
>Won't actually describe what I'm struggling with
>So now tell me guys how to overcome my problems

The golden rule is to always start from not being a retard.
try deactivating any blocked vertex group, deactive too mirror or subdivision surface and test
OP here

Don't be like that, I also wanted to start a general conversation about weight painting at the same time cause I'm sure I'm not the only one struggling with it, since it seems to be one of the hardest aspects of 3D from what I'm seeing

Thanks, these are nice tips.

I heard more complex rigs can solve a lot of problems though, like having additional bones control the most tricky deformations.

The pelvic area and shoulders seem to be the most difficult to handle.
My friend, this is what you're after:

Damn, this looks cool. Gonna give it a try, after another afternoon spent trying to weight paint pelvis/legs and still getting nowhere, this might just do the trick.

Many thanks bro
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Hey OP. I don’t know what your exact problem is, so I’m just going to write a general guide. Hope it helps you.

Weight Painting

>The Setup
First thing, go to the User Preferences and turn on Custom Weight Paint Range under the System Tab. Set the range to black and white at 0 and 1 respectively. Then set pure blue and red at 0.0001 and 0.9999. Stopping here, you already have a paint range that will more accurately tell you when you have a vertex weight at/very near zero and one. However, I like the way Maya has their weight paint range set up, so I also set green to 0.35 and yellow to 0.65.

Next, when you attach your armature to your mesh, do so with empty vertex groups. Allowing the computer to do its own weights has always been a pain in the ass for me to clean up later, so just don’t let it.

Last thing to set up is to enable Auto Normalize in the Tool Panel. This will prevent the combined weights of different vertex groups from exceeding 1.0. This is useful because it helps to keep the rig acting predictably, and simplifies the painting process.
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To start off the painting process, you want to go through each of your bones and paint what they are going to influence to 1.0. You will blend the weights between vertex groups later. For now, each vertex should only have a value of 1.0 or 0.0. Use the draw brush with max strength and weight to help you do this. After you've painted the influence of one bone, make sure to lock the vertex group of that bone. This will keep you from accidentally changing the influence of a vertex you have already painted.

By the time you've done this for all your bones, all your vertex groups should be locked and only one bone should have influence over any one vert. To check that you painted all the verts, unlock one group and then sweep you brush over the entire mesh. Any vertex that has no influence over it will be painted and should be easy to see.

>Blending Weights
Now its time to blend the weights together. You want to keep a few rules in mind while doing this.

When painting, only unlock the vertex groups of the bones you are working with. Try to only work with two groups at a time. This will prevent the computer from assigning influence on a bone that you don’t want to have influence.

Never subtract, always add weight. If you happen to need to work with more than two vertex groups at a time or you forgot to lock a vertex group, keeping this rule in mind will give you the most control over which bone will receive influence over the mesh.

Animate your rig, don’t just pose it. You want to see how your mesh is deforming. Along with helping you do a better job at weight painting, this will also reveal problems that you may not notice if you’re just looking at static poses.
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If you have a vertex that’s acting weird, you can check which bones are influencing it by going into Edit Mode and selecting the vertex. Open the Properties Panel and look for the Vertex Weights Tab. This will show you what vertex groups are influencing it. Unfortunately, it can only show one vertex at a time and when you change one of its values, it doesn't automatically change the values of the other influences, so you will need to manually normalize the influences to equal 1.0.

The hips and shoulders are a pain in the ass to get to deform well, mainly because there’s usually three or more bones influencing the same area. Even after painting the hips as best you can, they will not deform like reality. You will need to use Corrective Shape Keys (Blend Shapes in Maya) to make the hips deform like the Human body would. Only do this after you have finalized your weight painting. Look up drivers and bone-driven shape keys to automate the application of your Shape Keys while animating.

Last thing, get a drawing tablet. Nothing expensive. Even a small, cheap tablet will make a big improvement on your speed over using a mouse.
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Holy shit man, OP here, thanks for taking the time to type this, I really appreciate it.

This gives me really nice insight, there are a few things I had already figured out on my own like enabling Auto Normalize, and the fact Blender's auto weighting can't be relied on.

I had no idea you could play around with locking/unlocking vertex groups however, and I often had a few stray vertices here and there, so that's a very cool tip, thanks.

Question : Is it important to make sure vertex groups don't overlap each other or does that not matter ?

Blocking then Blending seems to be an efficient workflow, it's kinda reassuring you're giving it so much importance cause I had already experimented a bit and that's one of the conclusions I was slowly getting to, but due to lack of experience/practice I'm still not getting satisfying results.

I'm not too familiar with Corrective Shape Keys though, I'll have a look into that, sounds good.

>The hips and shoulders are a pain in the ass to get to deform well, mainly because there’s usually three or more bones influencing the same area.

Are there any preferable rig setups to handle the hips and shoulder areas ? Currently I'm using 3 bones for the hip :
- Hip bone (handles the center of the pelvic area) Points up and is parent to spine bones
- Side hip bone that goes perpendicular from the hip bone (handles side hip deformations)
- Ass bone, points to the opposite direction of the thigh bone (so up) and moves with it (children).

This gives me a bit of hope, I felt I had tried everything already, I'll give your workflow a go. Thanks a bunch bro

Blender is a donut and coffee cup modeling software, use a real software for weight painting.
for some reason when I try to use the add or subtract brushes they just don't work after a while..I've never been able to figure out why it sometimes does it and other times works fine. whether I have tweaked some option and lost track of it or done something else, I never seemed to work out what
spotted the bait

spotted the blendlet
So's Maya, C4D and every other software out there, your point?
Forgot link:
C4d and Maya are better when it comes to weight painting.

Biggest common weight paint beginner mistake is people just literally trying to paint the weights, doing broad strokes across everything.

That is not how it works, you need to select parts of the model and assign weight or transfer weights or generate the from bone heat, then you need to pose the model, enable draw lines and show verts in weight paint mode, zoom in and touch on each vert gently one by one, shaping the deformation to your liking in that pose.

My point is that your mother suck dicks.
I'd ask how you'd know this, but I'm sure your mother would love to show you instead.
>painting each vertex by hand
I hate this. So much. It's probably the worst step in the process for me
painting each dot by hand?...naaaahh fuck that..Didn't spend 2 years learning to sculpt 3d only to color in a few thousand verts near the end
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That's a bit much, obviously you select groups if you can
watch a good quality tutorial on weight painting and see how easy it becomes
What about shape keys ?
Can't you work around most weight painting issues by just using shape keys and reshape whatever part is being problematic manually ?

Sounds a lot less painful than painting each vertex one by one
post your work and i will cosider
While you can do this.
I'd suggested other wise, You'd need to manually need to make a Shape key for every unique pose for breasts. Witch might be about 8 shapes. AND then you'd need manually move them for every pose you do. And It it wouldn't be possible for more complex animation. the Vert by vert isn't all that bad IF you managed your topology.... Or just know what you're doing with weights.
I'm dealing with the same thing op. Weight painting is the last thing I have to master before I can fully get my characters through a pipeline. Shit's insane. Feels like some kind of arcane mysticism is required to weight vertices right. On youtube I've seen guys just selecting vertices and manually weighting them like it's nothing but my results doing the same thing are complete garbage.

Captcha: blenderfags suck
Yeah, currently struggling with the shoulder area, shit's brutal. Tried to paint each vertex manually, automatic weights, and even a more complex rig with multiple bones just for that area... still nothing.

It's like you said, really frustrating cause I got decent at modeling and texturing, but that last fucking step is keeping me from completing my character and start posing/animating.

About to give up.
The thing I'm still having a hard time dealing with regarding weight painting is even by painting each vertex individually, the moment you switch to another pose, what worked previously just goes bye bye most of the time.

Really wondering how you're supposed to weight paint something that's supposed to work in more than one pose.
You don't need a shit-ton of bones in the hips and shoulders to get a good weight paint. But you do need your bones placed properly. And you also need your model to have correct topology and edge loop placement.
By animating it. Keyframe the poses you are expecting the bone to be in, with pose one on frame zero and pose 2 on frame 40. As you are painting the weights, scrub through the timeline to see how those weights are affecting the way the mesh is being deformed. You will need to go back and forth to get the deformations as good as possible. Also keep in mind, weight painting only goes so far. At a certain point you are going to need to create shape-keys and then "drive" them with the bone's rotation in order to get really good mesh deformations.

Can both of you post a picture of the problem areas you are working with? Also in the poses that are causing problems.
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For the base deforming skeleton, you don't really need anything complicated.
A hip bone, and a thigh bone.
A clavicle bone and a shoulder bone.
You will be paining weights for other nearby bones like the spine and the neck, but that's all you are going to need for a simple rig.

Sounds good in theory, but for some reason Blender is ass when it comes to creating shape keys on anything that's not the base pose cause it keeps the cursor at each vertex's original position which makes it a bitch to edit. Seriously how the fuck are you supposed to fix stuff that only happens in a certain pose if you can't have the actual vertex locations displayed in that specific pose.

After multiple attempts I found using a slightly more complex rig can help a lot regarding the shoulder area.
Currently using a clavicle bone, as well as one in the back for the shoulder blade, and one additional deltoid bone.

Might cause issues with IK though.
Place automatic weights then polish the result
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Have you tried using the sculpting tools while the armature modifier is applied to edit mode?
The two options circled in your pic related do help, but whenever you select say a vertex while the model is in another position than the base one, the cursor remains at that position instead of updating its location to the current one, which means it's a bitch to edit stuff that occurs then.

It actually also shows on your pic, you can see the cursor for that face isn't on it, but at its original location before the armature effect was applied. Now in that example it isn't too much of an hindrance cause it's still close to the face in its current position, but imagine trying to edit something that has its vertices move a long way from their original positions when it's animated and you'll see what I'm getting at.

Seems like it's a Blender feature. More like a con to me.

I wonder if someone found a fix or developed an addon to get around it yet.

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