Let's please ignore moralities and ethics here and make this thread an objective discussion. We all know that it's illegal and against morals, but the question is: is it traceable?If an indie developer used pirated tools to make game assets (for example, ZBrush for sculpting characters and generating maps, and Maya for modeling and animations) and released the game on Steam and consoles like Xbox and PS, could developers like Autodesk and Pixologic find out that the indie used pirated tools just by "reverse engineering" the game (or making use of some other sort of computer black magic)? Let's suppose that the game got really famous and profitable.I mean, is it possible that Autodesk and Pixologic (or any other companies) get some metadata out of the game files, and therefore conclude that pirated tools were used?If so, is there a way that indie developers can get rid of the metadata and be safe? If one would export from Maya as .OBJ or .FBX and import it in a free software like Blender, then just re-export it, would it be fine?
>>597081>If so, is there a way that indie developers can get rid of the metadata and be safe? If one would export from Maya as .OBJ or .FBX and import it in a free software like Blender, then just re-export it, would it be fine?If you have to even ask this, you are fucked. First of all - real devs N E V E R ship FBX or any other output file format with their games. You get the FBX, you extract the data from it into your own format as something XML-ish then you can either read that or go a step further and turn that into a binary.I repeat - you NEVER ship OBJ or FBX with your gamesSecondly - if you don't have a FBX-to-your-engine converter you must be an unreal or unity babby. This wont get you far. Honestly it means you dont really understand how to work with 3D if you cant even come up with an engine or converter or other simple tools. TL;DR keep your dayjob
>>597081>I mean, is it possible that Autodesk and Pixologic (or any other companies) get some metadata out of the game files, and therefore conclude that pirated tools were used?Yes
>>597083Yes, the supposed indie developer would obviously be using Unity or Unreal to make his game, because, of course, as he's indie, he won't have all the trouble to develop a whole new game engine (which is actually really hard to do). So that means nothing, a lot of great games are made using these engines.Models obviously won't be shipping directly in FBX or OBJ file format with the game, but would be compiled into the game after the game engine finishes the build. What I'm asking is if it would be possible for Autodesk or Pixologic to "decompile" the game or somehow extract the models and then conclude that the tools used to make'em were illegal.
>>597085Not OP, but I'm curious: how could they know?
>>597088They subpoena unity or epic
>>597089But how would even unity or epic know that the assets used were created using pirated tools? I mean, they do not have access to the raw files, the game is compiled in the game developers PC
>>597093they wrote the original fbx->unity/unreal exporter. Who knows what additional stuff they stored. Unless you want to roll those dice and get blacklisted i suggest you get a job and buy software. It feels so fucking good getting a paycheck and actually being able to own soft. Its better than sex - way better feeling.
>>597083>>calls an engine a 'simple tool'I can't tell if you're trolling because you said so,e correct stuff about the fact that no user-viewable files will ship with a game so I think you're just a retard who actually believes that coming up with an entire new engine is something within the grasp of someone who is nt working at a fairly large company.How many engines have you designed and rolled out, can I ask? Do any of your engines offer any features that might rival Frostbite, idtech or cryengine in any areas?
>>597099>How many engines have you designed and rolled out, can I ask?1>Do any of your engines offer any features that might rival Frostbite, idtech or cryengine in any areas?Yes
>>597099I second this.>>597100I doubt that.Anyways, this discussion made me curious. Is it really possible for them to find out that a cracked software was used? I don't think so, is there any experiment we can make to prove it?
>>597087Why would they waste their time doing that? By the way, if you plan on developing a game of such a scale that it would get noticed by the big boys, then I guess you have some sort of budget. Create a demo with your pirated software, launch a kickstarter campaign and buy your software.
>>597083Unreal doesn't ship FBXs, it turns them into uasset files.
>>597107And thus epic can be subpoenaed like I said. I figure you don't know how the law works in regards to digital theft. It's not 1960 anymore.
>>597108Except that it won't happen, game companies don't waste their time reverse engineering every game on the market.
for autodesk, your probably fine if you stay small and are not posting screenshots/streams of your work using a pirated software open that could garner attentionautodesk is known for going after larger companies though and they are quite ruthlessthey dont care about 1 or 2 randoms making stuff for small monies, they care about large multimillion dollar firms who have many multiple illegal copies of their software being used for profitit all comes down to how much you are making and how many waves you are creating
>>597081don't worry Jamal even if they catch you just say that itz ca'z repharashuns and you dindu nuffinpic somewhat related
>>597096yeah, buy adobes CC package !!!fucking retarded.shill out some 5k for mayawhy not substance, zbrushthers so fucking many thingsi live in a western country, i cant afford all these things just like that, ive lived in a eastern country, 3rd world or what have youyou think you can preach that shit there ? jesus
>>597083You're a horrible person, and I really mean it.
There is no risk associated with pirating if you're a solo job or small indie studio, probably even small studio. The Joe Danger devs licensed their version of Maya after releasing the game and they made it look easy. Autodesk just isn't going to bother going out of their way to drop a lawsuit on your head when there's probably hundreds of other people doing the same thing: they're just content that you're using and getting used to their software, so that when you do have the means to purchase it, you won't go for any alternative.If you're a medium to large studio, you can probably afford a few licenses of Maya LT, so that doesn't apply to you.
>>597138ThisThey DO audit large companies who claim to use their products to make sure they are all legit. They do this cos if they find one dumbass who installed a pirated copy they can get cash from the whole company.
>>597131>>for autodesk, your probably fine if you stay small and are not posting screenshots/streams of your work using a pirated software open that could garner attentionI've created video captures of faults in pirated Autodesk products and sent them to Autodesk service technicians for support, which I received with absolutely no questions asked about the authenticity my ownership of the products. Make of that what you will. I have purchased not a single AutoDesk product and I am logged into 3 of them in my own name, and regularly post on the AutoDesk user forums with this account. Probably been doing this around 6 years at this point. Again - not saying anyone should try this or that it's without risk, just putting it out there, as they say.
>>597131>it all comes down to how much you are making and how many waves you are creatingThis is true. Why else would Autodesk basically offer a hassle-free, no-questions-asked student license for free, for 3 years? Because getting new grass-roots future customers is worth more than chasing around all the broke-ass Russians and Chinamen who use cracked copies without a chance in hell of ever making a dime off it. Like any drug-dealer knows; if you get 'em young, you get 'em for life.
>>597137I don't think he's so much a 'horrible' person as he is a 'useless, pathetic' person but I agree with your sentiment nonetheless; he is definitely garbage.
BTW its not the software companies themselves you need to look out for when it comes to legal enforcement. Every lost software sale is lost tax revenue for the government, and unlike software companies - the government have nothing better to do with their time, and guns.
>>597146exactly, they dont care unless they think you are seriously hurting their profits
>>597081Are you seriously trying to justify your lack of moral integrity here? Neck yourself...or just fuck off with this shit. Nobody cares if you get fucked for creating your shitty game with pirated software.
>>597169Not trying to justify it, just asking for an objective answer.
>>597184The answer is FUCK YOU, attention whore
If they would just make their software more affordable.. I run a small studio and we only use legit licenses, and they are priced ok if your business is okay. But autodesk should really consider doing indie subscriptions like many other companies are offering now. And get rid of student license and just do it like Houdini with that apprentice stuff. Or do both idk.
>>597083Mate, you're literally cardboard trash personality. Also wrong.
>This whole threadIs 3d literally the board for snowflake normies who can't handle certain words they read on the internets?
>>597236which side are you on
>>597081Clearing the Autodesk metadata out of an FBX is very easy. Just export the FBX, import into Blender and re-export. All the metadata is stripped because it all exists in the header only.You can check it yourself by having your FBX as ASCII so you can inspect it directly.
>>597225>If they would just make their software more affordableThe issue is they don't have to, products like Maya sell themselves at any price point because the industry already took them as a standard.I love the companies who offer software at reasonable pricing, but they seem to be pretty few and far between. As far as a complete Model/Texture/Render pipe goes, there really aren't many options that are priced even within the hobbyist range, but some are thanks to a low base price, or a fair tiered price (Indie licenses and such based off profit)Mari and Modo are $50/month, Substance is $20/month, Redshift is $41/month (Billed per year), Octane is $20/monthAll well within reason for basically anyone that cares enough to pay.Meanwhile Maya and Max are flat $2000/year, Vray is over $1000/year, etcI feel like these packages would stand to profit even more if they had tiered licensing systems where freelancers, hobbyists or indies could buy in at a lowered cost if they make a smaller profit per year.
Piracy is fine in my book unless one of the two conditions are met.>You enjoyed the product and you can afford the product without breaking the bank>You make money off of it
>>597258Worth mentioning Redshift is a perm license actually, and Substance payments go towards a perm license too
I got a somewhat related question to the thread;If I made some assets in educational version, and them bought the full license, can I use the assets made in the educational/notforprofit version commercially? Do I need to re-export them from the commercially licensed version, or do I need to make them from scratch?random pic to get attention
>>597081>could developers like Autodesk and Pixologic find out that the indie used pirated tools just by "reverse engineering" the gamethose companies would be in more trouble for reverse engineering the game. no, they can not trace it.
>>597264Seconded. I'm broke but I've made a point of purchasing a couple things, quixel suite, Substance indie, world-creator 2 pro, geoglyph 2.0 pro, and a few other things that aren't crazy expensive and are made by ambitious little companies. I want to own everything I use eventually but in order to get there I need to get good with those tools and start making money with them first.Expecting a kid with no skills and no money to pony up thousands and thousands for a suite of software he can't even use yet is some unrealistic idealistic bullshit.
>>597081>>597269I think that if there is metadata that can be used to trace cracked versions, probably there is metadata to trace educational versions being used commercially as well.But, at this point, it seems that nobody knows if there REALLY is metadata embedded in the files that can be used to trace piracy. Just to be safe, it is better to re-export every file generated by a pirated software using a free software. For example, re-export JPG files generated by Photoshop using Gimp or Krita, and OBJ/FBX files generated by Maya using Blender. Also, check files for metadata as ASCII.Also, some people are concerned that these companies may hide information using Steganography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography), automatically moving some vertices by an unnoticeable amount, in a way that the last digits can transmit a meaningful message. If you're paranoid, you can write some simple script (in Python, for example), that can read an OBJ/FBX and randomly mess up the last digits of vertice points.I THINK that if you take these precautions, you should be fine.
if you aren't going to charge for anything you make, it probably isn't too worth worrying about. but if you're going to charge for a game or whatever other project, you should really, really buck up and find alternate software workflows you can afford. learn blender and other stuff you can actually afford to use legally. you don't necessarily need the best of the best tools if you're just making an indie project. is blender the most fun thing to work with? not really. can it do what you want reasonably if you put in the time to learn to work with it? probably
>>597083I'm not a regular here. just passing by, but I have to say this is the most butthurt post that I've seen this week. I get it that you are disappointed in yourself, but don't take it out on others. Idiot.
>>597449I'm legit worried that I actually find Blender to be the most fun and comfy 3D package out there.
>>597449If you're working for a studio, license compliance is their problem (even if you're freelance). If you really do that much work and/or are working for a large firm that cares about that shit, you can Incorporate and then write off license costs as expenses (which they are) and if some (non-criminal) problem comes up down the line, your Corporation is liable (not you). >>597578Contrary to 4memes, there are top level artists that use Blender professionally. As long as you can import / export into formats usable by the company's pipeline, all that matters is that you get the results.
>>597104>Is it really possible for them to find out that a cracked software was used?it's 100% possible and there are countless ways to do it. Think of it this way cartographers hide some fake roads in their maps so if they find those roads on someone elses map they know their map has been stolen.You could hide a signature in a model or texture that isn't detectable and if the person who cracked the software didn't know it was doing this and didn't disable it then they could tell you'd pirated it.That said, I don't know of any instance where this has happened
>>597775>Think of it this way cartographers hide some fake roads in their maps so if they find those roads on someone elses map they know their map has been stolen.there is no evidence of that in CG software
>>597775I do this in my artwork and in my meshes - build a tiny little signature and a date into a texture somewhere on the images, in the meshes I split a couple of polygons with the cut tool to spell my initials, and in texture maps again I'll just paint my initials in really tiny (like - pixel-painting tiny) and have it both in and out of UV bounds.An audio electronics company called Mackie did something similar with a piece of recording equipment; they deliberately built in a red-herring part of a circuit that did absolutely nothing. Another company, Behringer, copied their design including the useless technology - and got royally fucked when Mackie sued.
>>597269>>597429>>597775the whole metadata fearmongering is bullshit, every data is out in the open as plain text. refer to: http://suchanspot.blogspot.com/2013/02/removal-of-student-version-file-pop-up.html
>using blender>pressing the wrong button>console opens full screen>how the fuck do i close that>try to figure out which key-combo i pressed last>trying 3 combos>suddenly program closes>didnt save*uuuurg*please tell me should i just get a leaked version of maya or is it really worth it sticking with blender and staying on the "light side"
>>597898How about googling how to open and close the console in blender, if you don't know it already?
>597898You can't blame the program for a user error. Pressing random key-combos is a sure way to fuck things up. Same would happen in Maya. Its not the program, its you.
>>597898Fuck off falseflagging piece of shit. Everyone knows Blender auto-saves everything (sometimes to the point of excess), even if you didn't assign a proper filename to the project.
>>597775>>597783>>597818Every story I've ever read has been from a big firm, studio, or company that got caught because a disgruntled employee ratted them out. A lot of high priced software has really weak protection on it to deliberately make it easy for kids or poor people to learn the software, ensuring it remains dominant in the market share. They would literally rather have you use the software for free (so long as you aren't making a huge profit) if it meant you aren't using their competitor (even if that competitor is shitty freeware). In fact a lot of them have dropped almost all the pretense and just have a "Student" version that has all or nearly all of the features of the full version.
>>597898What a fucking faggot. Trying to absolve yourself of responsibility. It's called user error. You fucked it up bro. And you're too lazy and goddamn stupid to Google your problems. Congrats. You can't even meme blender properly. You think you're gonna be any better in Maya? Give me a fucking break. You seem too stupid to even know how to pirate anything if you can't even handle basic search results.
>>597940look at this triggered blendlet
>>597578I'm a Maya user but I do find that Blender is fun, fast and comfy to use. I'm not using it because most game companies want artists that use Maya, so I'd rather master this software over blender.
>>597941>>A lot of high priced software has really weak protection on it to deliberately make it easy for kids or poor people to learn the software,True.Hate on Apple all you want, but you gotta hand it to them here; there were literally zero fucks given in regards to piracy protection on their Pro applications. I remember at least one version of Logic (their Pro DAW application) had literally *nothing* to stop you duplicating it; if you knew someone who had a copy of it, (and this was in the physical media era too, btw) you could literally just borrow the disk, install it on your own machine and... er... that was it. Same with some of the internet distributed versions - if you got hold of the installer, that was all you needed. Same with their operating systems, back when they used to charge for a new OS; if you had the installer; you had the software. No questions asked.And when you think about it - it makes total sense; Apple were making billions and billions in selling iPods and music on the iTunes store back then - so why not just give away the tools to make the music for free? Also - Apple and their developers benefited far more from having a user base who were all using the latest OS than they did from the money made on selling it. I wonder when Microsoft is gonna catch onto this one? (Oh wait... they don't make and sell their own hardware... I guess scratch that then...)(Final Cut Pro was a bit more strict as I remember, you actually needed to verify a license for it I think, but whatever...)
>>597944Only compelling argument for Maya > Blender ever. I find the modeling tools in Blender a lot faster because of the shortcuts and flexibility, but everything else is better in Maya.
is their a good torrent for maya, blender, cinema 4d, autodesk? I was thinking of making an archive of my own modified and alternating some of my own files. I might be an idiot or maybe just to poor, but I am a visual artist of physical media, but I really want to aspire to do what I am capable of. I have found out its all alot of grunt work people can pay for, Iv been using a cracked version of autodesk, but i only wrapped my head around digital asseting like about 2 years ago when a job for volvo listed on my community college for digital sculpting. I have been diy-ing alot to have some of the things my house hold uses. I want to bring my software to either a mini pc and external graphic combo, but my laptop is gonna truck on for another 8 years id assume. My auto desk suite actually got lost when a hard drive died I was using for a backup of only user files and software. Im not here to steal to make anything thats selfish either, I would consider I am also a digital inventor if I just had the tools for me to create a nice proto type. Alot of what got me excited has been watching unreal engine 4 developer videos and tutorials. If I make anything it would probably be a board game for me and some friends I could use to help our DND sessions
>>599090but i see alot of stuff is free ish, I know I will still have to fork out about 500 bucks on my own for digital things for my minipulation purposes. until I get a camera to re-shoot textures or what not. I will also be ur slut if ur richer than u need a bee and wanna stimulate a starving artists pockets. I do chores too
What about pirated addons/plugins on a software thats either licensed or free?Is there even a way for people to know that you've used a certain addon/plugin while creating your models and can they go further to see whether is bought or not?pic unrelated
>>600901It is possible
>>597131The fact that they go after large companies puts you in the crosshair of said large companies when it comes to being considered for employment, however, which is where most of the risk is for an individual pirating software. They don't have the same resources as Autodesk, though, so you just have to try your best to look legit.
>>597256He might be talking about the loading screen. I mean, I’m sure that’s not too difficult to program.
>>597083>If you use Unity or Unreal, you're a hack.Wowee, better make sure Arc System Works, Bandai Namco, Rocksteady Studios, and Nintendo get the memo. Such professional advice :V It's not like reinventing the wheel and make the worlds 10000th HLSL implementation is wasting you're time if you weren't aiming at something in specific at a more technical level.
>>601899Holy crap, my grammar. What was I thinkeg.*making*world's*your
If you wan't an honest answer, OP, probably yeah they can track you anyway.Most modern game engines internally convert to their own model format. The final shipped game wouldn't contain an fbx, but rather some proprietary asset format.>That means I'm safe!Not so fast- fbx is a proprietary format. To have good native support (unlike Blender's boot-leg and horribly incapable fbx support), the company that created the game engine would have to be in direct talks with Autodesk and willing to listen to their list of demands. It's not out of the question they have some ques taken from the Autodesk files making it to the game engine's asset formats. After all, the fbx/mb/max support would be coming from Autodesk's side in collaboration, and is considered a must-have feature.Even if this wasn't the case, piraters don't entirely understand how these programs phone home. They only reverse engineered it to an extent and don't have access to source code. It's not unheard of to use a pirated program, everything is working fine, then suddenly>HOLD ON JUST A MINUTE THIS LICENSE ISN'T VALIDAutodesk also has a reputation of sniffing this stuff out a mile away, even being a bit stealthy about it. There's a few cases where Autodesk's parent company found out and personally emailed the people using pirated software for commercial use.Your honest options if you don't want to play in a mine-field?>Pay for Maya LT.Cheaper than Maya but comes with just a few less features. Priced towards the indie crowd. Great native support with UE4 and Unity.>Use Blender.Unorthodox and standardized interface, feels a bit sloppy to use, but is just as capable as Maya, lighter weight, and free. A bit of hassle going back and forth between a modern game engine and Blender.
>>601902*unstandarizedWhat is with me today :V
>try to pirate fumefx>can't pirate vray\arnold that would work with that fumefx version>maya fluids fuck up viewport>settle down for blender insteadstory of my "pirate" life
>trying to download Mari non-commerical >have fast internet but The Foundry's servers as managed by homosexuals so downloads are slow as fuck outside NA and Europe>just end up pirating
Fuck you pirate! I don't care how broke you are! Use blender in that case you moron!Otherwise purchase indie versions of 3d software like Modo for $300. Pixologic has a lite version of ZBrush called ZBCore that's a bit cheaper.And Autodesk does Maya LT for $30 a month. Also, the student versions of maya and 3ds max are free!Seriously, pirating isn't cool. There are so many alternative options you don't need to pirate!
>>604358Oh and you must be the "bad ass" for being a thief. Pathetic .If you're going to pirate ...just do pirate Autodesk. Leave pixologic alone!
>>597081>morality>autodeskAutodesk has been trying to destroy blender, your friendly neighborhood opensource project, since forever. Using blender to circumvent paying for autodesk is almost ironic. No, blender won't leave any traces of any other program in an .obj file. You're safe.
>>604363>Leave pixologic alone!found the fanboi
>>604366>Using blender to circumvent paying for autodeskThat's essentially the only reason why Blender exists.
>>604379Yeah, but today people don't use it just because it is a free alternative. Inb4 another blenderlet insult.
>>604363lol stupid fanboy, you need to learn how software business works. Broke people pirate good software, and once they have money (with kickstarter for exemple) they buy the software. It's a win win situation.
>>604354Piracy is beneficial to big companies and even small ones trying to increase their share of the market. See >>597948.They only lose if you got the money and don’t want to pay. If you don’t have the money and all you want is to learn, they’ll look in the other way, and expect your future employer to be the one giving them the big bucks.
>>604423>trying to justify piracy>the absolute state of /3/
>>604425Read properly; I’m not justifying piracy.
>>604425It's always been this way here. Why don't you get fuck back to whatever cesspool of moralfaggotry you came from?
>>6044523rd world shithead detected
>>604472The Foundry shill detected.
>>604475At least Foundry has some decent offerings. Nuke is the best in compositing there is and Mari runs circles around SP and 3DCoat.
>>604487>Mari runs circles around SPBut it is fucking slow to work with. If you don't need to paint on 13 UDIMS at the same time Sp is 3x faster. >Nuke is the best in compositing there is. Straight out of their marketing material.Nuke costs what? 8000$? I bet 95% of all people would be fine with the 300$ Fusion if not the free version of the same software.Yes Foundry has something decent to offer, but at a horrendous price.
what are the chances of getting caught using substance painter if it just shits out images?
>>604676Who the heck knows if they are using steganography to hide identifying information?
>>604676Little to no chances, they don't seem to even sue big companies, even less home users. You own substance is you pay for monthly it during 1 year. I was 10 months in and I decided to cancel the next month's payment because I was thinking about stopping 3d. I decided to start paying again next month, little did I know I had to start my payments from scratch because I stopped them for a single month.So fuck that, I cracked the software, I'll buy the whole thing in a single payment if my kickstarter succeeds. It's a win win situation.
>>604682You don't need a Kickstarter you need a job you faggot. I paint textures for the past 3 years in the industry. If you're not completely retarded you can get a job and stop advocating stealing babby priced texturing softIs Mari better? Yes with the latest update it's top tier that you can commercially buy
>>604687Why are people in game industry not using Mari? Fucking hell, you guys will make me download literally every 3D software there is. No matter what I use, be it Substance Painter, Blender, World Machine, xNormal, somebody will always say it succs and I'll bite it and learn something else as well.
>>604687Because I'm actually retarded and can't keep a job.
>>604689People on this board are bitter fucks. World machine is awesome, substance is awesome, Xnormal is great, Blender sucks.
>>604698How old are you?
>>604689Because its a fucking product meant for feature and VFX production, not for video games. The reason why Substance is so successful in the gaming market is because there was no competition, nobody was making texture tools specifically meant for video games and real-time graphics production before so they went in and took the throne. Mari is a great software, but for video games production, Substance is mostly superior.
>>604718Then why the FUCK do you keep shitposting and telling people to use Mari in every thread if you don't even know what are they working on?You guys are fucking unbelievable.
>>604721It’s called being mentally challenged. Sad, but what can we do?
>>604721You confusing me with the Foundry shill Anon. This is my third post in this thread. First >>604503
>>60471325, never been able to keep a job.
>>604728What's the longest you've had a job for?
>>604730Why are you asking me all of these questions?
>>604732just trying to see if you might move up from scrub status haha
>>604733I'll have to move out from your mother's bedroom first.
>>604744my mom is ugly af
>>597898remember > crtl+alt+z> look at the history to find out which operation you accidentally used> undo
>make models in pirated software>import into free software>export it outwoweee
>>597083Bruh look at this dude.
>>607332Eff you for making me remember that massive faggot again.
How do I pirate Blender?