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Is extremely large amounts of RAM beneficial for 3D rendering ever?

I have deep pockets
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Not in terms of speed or quality, only when you have huge scenes and assets with tons of details does it make sense.
Simulation of Fluid dynamics and other big scale simulations needs it other than that there is barely a use of it.
16Gb should be enough for most user, if you do Houdini simulations you might need some more.
A faster CPU/GPU make much more sense.
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Is there any noticable difference between RAM speeds?
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>>596878
Yes there should be, but i can't tell you exactly how much it makes a difference and how much it is noticeable.
In principle it gets faster to load stuff into RAM, but it also depends on what you do with what program etc.
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>>596875
>if you do Houdini simulations you WILL need more
Fixed

Really, any simulation software is going to gobble up tons of memory. Either way I would absolutely not recommend less than 32GB for anyone serious about 3D.
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>>596880
I-I'm serious. What amount of ram should I buy if I want to render say Pacific Rim 2 tier sims?
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>>596880
Depends on what you do. I have rendered fairly complex stuff and i never needed more than 16GB of RAM, but i don't do Sims regularly except small stuff here and there.

I've heard that the space station in the movie Elysium was 25 GB. Took nearly an hour to open the scene in Maya.
Scenes with 20-40GB are the norm now for really heavy VFX scenes.
But since Clarisse has shown up, it got easier and faster to handle that amount of data.

>>596882
As much as you can stuff on your Mobo. 128GB should work, but i rather be concerned about your CPU because what use is it when you have to wait for a week or more until you see a result.
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>>596889
>but i rather be concerned about your CPU because what use is it when you have to wait for a week or more until you see a result.
it doesnt take that long lad. Git gud.
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>>596894
>completely misses the point and answers with a meme
Fuck off
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>>596899
>HURR IT TAKES WEEKS TO RENDER A SIMPLE JUMPSPLASH ON BLEEDING EDGE HARDWARE IN CURRENT YEAR DURR
stop wasting bandwidth
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>>596900
>still missing
What shot? How much water? How many frames? What resolution? Which hardware? Also what is a hyperbole?
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>>596901
For example, this is a 20m max sim on current hardware in current year

https://vimeo.com/111148531
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>>596874
only if you're cpu rendering.
>17 hundo on ram
fuck that shit.
wait one year and it'll be 3 hundo.
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>>596874
For modeling, animation, texturing and basic rendering, 16GB is fine.
For large scenes or if you like having a bunch of stuff open all at once in several programs, 32GB works.
For sims and VFX, the sky's the limit.
If you get an SSD, then your system will also be able to cache data more effectively. Regardless of how much RAM you install, the system always caches data, so it's good to have one either way.
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>>596956
Ram prices have only been increasing not falling bro.
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>>596956
>t.
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>>596874
Must have for large cinema grade sims. Waiting for sims while you're trying to look dev/art direct at the same time is pretty annoying if you have a closing deadline. Spend the money and feel comfortable at the end of the day.
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>>596992
all the 128gb memory mobos on amazon have terrible reviews. What do?
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>>596994
Get a server rack and double up on the CPU's. You're going to have to use a lot of power to get those sim's running to a point where you can leave them on overnight and art direct when you wake up. It's the only logical way to decrease time expenditure within a 24 hour day.
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>>596995
I was thinking of getting a 1950x threadripper and 128gb ram right out of the gate but I found these benchmarks from 9/17 and it looks like houdini is just poorly coded and causing users a ton of frustration.
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>>596998
It may seem like that but a lot of people are using Houdini as a proxy since the main 3D programs have caps on their ability to approximate the amount of data that comes out of Houdini. Also, I think those benchmarks aren't in corollary with the fully optimized nodal representation of on the job reproductions. There are ways to optimize and you can't just push data from the shelf tools, you have to sit there and code your tools yourself or wrangle the VEX option which is where Houdini really shines on the pipeline. Pushing the voxel division is not the way to really get optimization nor is the arbiter of Houdini's full capabilities on the particle/voxel proponent.
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>>597000
they were saying that they had to open multiple instances of the program on the same machine to approximate multi-threading, its that bad desu
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>>597001
VEX inherently multithreads so I don't know why anyone would open up multiple instances. Again the coding is wherein the hardline power lies.
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>>597001
Also IIRC u can multithread in the Python as well but for older versions.
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>sim thread
cool.
Never done sim before. Clearly sim requires assloads of memory, but how about after the simulation is complete?
When you bake a sim to a mesh or whatever comes out, how much space does it take? If you can bake the sim into anything other than a mesh, what are the related tradeoffs?

Suppose you wanted a high fidelity simulation of a hose spraying out wallpaper paste, but wanted to render the result in real time. That's the idea.
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>>597002
its 2017. All the tools should be multi-threaded. The forums and reddit are saying that if you have a shitton of cores like 16 and open up the hardware manager many of them just do nothing.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but guys in the industry on reddit are complaining and calling it shit.
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>>597005
I don't know what forum you are gleaning from nor do I know if any of these folks are actually running optimized contingencies. VOPs in themselves are multithreaded as are a whole host of the specialities one would have to program to come to a conclusion. I'm assuming these lot aren't running pipeline or TD tweaked solutions. Benchmarking is a misnomer in this case.
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>>597004
After the sim is complete you have several GB of cache data on your HDD.
I once simulated a smaller explosion, which took 25 minutes to simulate, afterwards i had ~40Gb of cachedata.
Forget the dream about rendering high fidelity results in realtime.
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>>597005
And 16 cores is somewhat the bottom of the barrel if you want that massive abled simulation look. You need node upon node before you start getting into the ultra smooth arena.
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>>597008
Exactly all that stuff is for a proxy to a game engine which will still only have a certain amount of fidelity. Unless of course, you code your own way out.
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>>597009
>Ultra smooth arena
What did you mean by this? What quality results can a single 1950x and 128gb ram achieve in a reasonable time?
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>>597012
You can crush motion graphics / ambient + non hero pyro/proximity partitioning on 2k 4k (more on the 1080p side) resolution sub a billion particles and could push VEX to decent limits. Maybe for limits at 5 minute to 10-minute intervals (at final export). Anything on a massive scale say something you have to integrate into something like City Engine (with or without composite) or any massive hero asset is going to take you weeks to months to finish.
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>>597012
That's also not counting what you make more may not have to chunk out depending on the final 3D package you have to approximate for rendering if you don't render in Houdini. If you're pushing out alembic stuff you might be good down the line.
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>>597008
How horrifying. But surely that's because you simulated a gaseous explosion, which inherently requires assloads of particles.
Liquid sims must be simpler
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>>597014
Can you post some video links to what you consider a hero asset and additionally what you consider massive scale
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>>597021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMwy4rAFOAU

Cinema aspect ratio alone needs a few nodes.
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>>597021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4pcg7bXgmU

You won't be doing this on one machine that's for sure.
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>>597021
Hero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbjM7wNKvSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKlbaU_uWpI
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>>597016
When i wrote ~40GB, i was wrong, now i remember it was a hundred. The last cache file (last frame) was 5GB big.
In the end the simulation was bottlenecked by my HD which couldn't write the data as fast as Houdini was calculating.
No particles just voxels. I guess particles would need less space, idk.
I was shocked because i basically filled my whole HD with a couple of sims and wondered why he wouldn't sim more.

I pretty much gave up on sims that moment because my hardware just doesn't cut it.
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>>597032
sounds like you had a smol hdd. What were your specs?
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>>597046
Yeah, shit was already full with stuff.
I7 3770K 16GB RAM and 200Gb space left.
Definitely use an SSD not an old and slow HD.
16GB was also too little.
When Houdini uses up all your RAM it might crash your system. Tested on both Win7 and Linux, result was the same...
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>>597049
>200gb free
Jesus. You should always have killer specs or be able to afford it easily. This is why you keep a day job. Shit, I easily have 30k free cash now.
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>>597050
Good for you, Anon. I have a shit job, no money and i suffer from depression.
But, hey at least i am still young, good-looking and have affordable health-care.
Shit will get better, but atm its pretty grim.
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>>597052
How much do you save a month
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>>597056
Nothing, i pay my debts, but i am free of them in ~6months. The problem is not my spending, its the low income and the depression keeping me from being successful.
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>>597063
Sounded like you had knowledge of Houdini - enough to get a job. Do you not work in the industry or do you live somewhere very expensive
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>>597065
My knowledge of Houdini is abysmal. I totally lack that math and programming talent. Its enough to blow some stuff up and do some sims, but other than that....
I currently don't work in the industry, because of my health problems, i can only work for 20hrs/week. Its getting better and i see the light at the end of the tunnel, but its gonna need some more time.
What i can do is learning, i stuff my brain with knowledge (Mari, Nuke, Clarisse and Houdini) and i know my skills are good enough to get a job, its just that fucking crippling Depression.
I have worked in the Industry and i am gonna back there.
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>>597070
From what you've read of my posts, do you think I can succeed in making good houdini sims or will I be wasting thousands of dollars? I've been a serious hobbyist for 5+ years
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>>597073
Do you have a math and programming talent ( or at least an affinity for it) ?
Overall it is a difficult question...but you do have an computer, so you could download Houdini right now and give it a test-run even on low-tech hardware.
If you just want to do simulations (doesn't matter if large scale or not) then you don't really need to dive into the deep end of Houdini, so i guess you'll be fine if you put some effort into it.
But Houdini is regarded the most difficult 3D DCC because of its approach. It is the tool for tech artists, so not only do you need artistic abilities you'll need the math and programming skills to really master it.
I would definitely suggest you don't take the risk, but rather give it some time and testing before you commit to spent your $$$. Just take some Masterclasses from SideFX and you'll see if it is something you can and want to do.
That's what i would do and i did and i found out that Houdini is a mighty Wizard and i will always stay a lowly apprentice.
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>>597077
>Do you have a math and programming talent ( or at least an affinity for it) ?
I mess around with 3D math libs like GLM in my programs. I dont believe 3D math goes beyond that?

I just need things to sim up real nice, to current year level, like Guardians of the Galaxy 2 level. I will check cgp for masterclasses.
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>>597080
Search CGP for stuff from Rohan Dalvi, he is a good tutor.
The learning stuff i mentioned is on the SideFX site and its mostly free.
https://www.sidefx.com/tutorials/
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>>596874
vitaly has 192 RAM and seven 1080's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdNvVu9gec

https://instagram.com/p/BPyZalbDFhQ/?hl=en
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>>597118
He's a CAD/XSI boy. Usually just making stuff for the down the pipeline minus his new UE4 games he's been making. Really exceptional system for a one-man band though.
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>>597121
His GitS models where in the range of 100+ million polygons. He arguable needs a beefy machine.
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>>597161
There's no argument there he needs every bit of power for that. But in reality, those got pushed to WETA and they finalized the sheen.
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>>597172
honestly nothing in GiTS was particularly interesting to look at. Visually, it was a huge letdown and one of the worst things WETA has been associated with.
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>>597172
For finalizing, yes, but he said he rendered the dailies with keyshot (not sure) so he did a lot of rendering on his machine.
>>597174
I think the Visuals where the best part of that really shitty movie. It still really pisses me off.
Fuck Scarjo and that hack of an director.
But you are right, even Vitaly's Designs (while technically perfect) where kind of bland.
Overall an immense waste of talent.
I fear for Alita even if i do have some respect for Rodriguez and Cameron. Especially since there is no chance in hell that this 200+ Million $$$ production will be anything but an PG-13 shitfest.
Nothing of the glorious gore and grit of the manga will be in there.
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>>597176
Dailies =/= final render
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>>597174
Yea massive let down and they let Ash Thorpe take control of way to much of their pro-production processing. I'm guessing they were slammed with work from other studios though.
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>>597176
It might go the PG-13 route too so you're looking at a GITS repeat :((
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>>597177
I KNOW, but rendering is rendering. Doing a couple hundred dailies on his machine is another reason he needs a beefy machine.
>>597179
>it might
It will be.
I have no doubt about it. Name me one 200 Million $ production of the last years which was rated R.
I mean i could be wrong and i hope i am, but what are the chances?
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>>597182
>Name me one 200 Million $ production of the last years which was rated R.
Martin Scorcese's new movie The Irishman with extensive CGI is $125m
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>>597182
1.Agreed

2. I mean from what I can glean he's already stepping out of his comfort zone with the design of Alita and using a new type of 3D tech. There's a cost balance he's gotta hit, that bottom line imperative in totality. Ostensibly The Passion of the Christ and recently Deadpool could be good examples of an IP working out for an R rating hitting the target. Alita is a completely different beast when it comes to IP's. I'm not even sure a lot of people had the Sci-Fi channel to even watch Alita in the 90's (at least in America) that in part you either had to import it or get it bootlegged.
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>>597183
I guess nobody dictates Martin what Rating he has to do. He might be one of those rare exceptions.
>>597186
Same with Mel Gibson, he also produced the movie (Passion), so its a different situation.
James Cameron who produces Alita could do it (make it R) but as far as i know he wanted to make it PG13 when asked years ago (when he wanted to do the movie himself).
Deadpool is not a good example because the movie had a budget of 58 Million. They had this successful guerilla-marketing campaign by Ryan Reynolds before the filming started, and fans literally begging them to do it.
And they still fucked the director by cutting his budget last minute.
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>>597190
Deadpool is still considered a successful rated R movie making back 3 times the budget. I don't know how that wouldn't equate. If anything that shows that any more than that is somewhat experimental and only prognosticated by a director with his own studio to yield.
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>>597193
the movie was terrible though and had almost no cg in it, certainly no groundbreaking cg
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>>597194
The most advertised bits where CG and Deadpool in locomotion for the most part was a CG mix . I thought it was ok I didn’t ejaculate or anything when I did finally see it lol.
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>>597195
it was really unimpressive
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The most expensive movies rated R in the last years where:
Mad Max Fury Road 150 million
Alien Covenant 97 million
Prometheus 130 million
Django Unchained 100 million
The Wolf of Wall Street 100 million
300: Rise of an Empire 110 million
The Expendables 2 100 million
The Revenant 132 million
Logan 97 million


The only movie i could find which had a 200 million $ budget and was rated R is Terminator 3

So there, it is official:
Alita will be rated PG-13
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>>597196
It was almost Fischer-esque in some of its composite sentiments. Other than that it was pretty on par with the budgetary outsourcing. Cyberscanning and Lidar helped a lot with the proportions to the character designs but cleaning all of the up and animating is really hard to do. Six plus studios of outsourcing is impressive to me idk about you, no worries tho.
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>>597199
>It was almost Fischer-esque in some of its composite sentiments
no one knows what that means or even remembers specific parts of that movie it was so forgettable
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>>597200
I mean to to say Fincher( on my phone ) esque, and the CG for the intro car chase was pretty impressive. One could say a Fincher-esque composite skill. I thought that entire highway build was real and most of it wasn’t.
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>>597200
Also don’t think 700+ million dollars screams unimpressive to a scalar model of “everyone” especially those ticket holders with receipts.
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>>597205
think about this anon - the vast majority of the overseas money coming in for that money is drug money being laundered. Not many overseas people actually saw the movie although they reported that ticket sales were so and so. Not trying to stir shit, but thats just how it is.
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>>597206
Going to need corroborating evidence on the drug laundering claim.
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>>597208
Its true. I saw some show on it the other day and it redpilled me. Drugs are huge and they are always looking for ways to launder money. Hell, this is how mexico got ruined
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>>597209
That’s not evidence within the confines of the film industry.
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>>597210
if you believe that, you're an absolute fool. You think Senor in Mexico city isn't taking in drug money and saying he sold X amount of tickets?

Don't be foolish, anon.
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>>597211
Trash assertion ( with even less evidence) and ur obviously trying to derail the thread. I’m outta here.
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>>597212
fuck you then
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>>596973
>Ram prices have only been increasing not falling bro
you're wrong and a fucking liar.
tech always drops in price.
always.
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>>596882
lol i'm working on pacrim2 and you can get away with a lot... this movie isn't looking too hot man
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It really depends on what youre doing, but the more the better. I work on gameart low-poly models, and people laugh at me when i bought 64Gb of ram - then i showed them pic related - ram usage when i bake high poly models to textures that are fairly complicated. So fuck them i guess, buy 64/128 - take a note that cpu power is also important, and price gab between motherboards that support 64gb and 128gb is large.




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