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why are maya and 3ds max so different. Any tips for someone used to inventor and 3ds max trying to learn maya?
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Get a free 3 months acc on Pluralsight and pirate some cgsociety videos
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>>583907
i would try them both out, i went with maya.
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>>583907
>why are maya and 3ds max so different.
Originally made by two competing companies, Discreet and Alias|Wavefront, both eventually got bought out by Autodesk. They're still different to appease their original users who are used to working in them the way they always have, but now they mostly receive the same new features every update cycle now.

>Any tips for someone used to inventor and 3ds max trying to learn maya?
What the others said, try them both out and see which one seems more appealing to you, watch some tutorials and consider whether you like the workflow in one over the other. I use Max because I find it fairly simple and intuitive, and most importantly I actually get things done. For others it could be the complete opposite.

Just try to stick with one package until you actually get good at making decent stuff in it, because you'll otherwise be blaming the software for your lack of ability to do things in it. If you get good enough at Max I suppose crossing over to Maya would only be as simple as learning an new UI and hotkeys, all the same concepts would apply.
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>>584871
>Discreet
Actually, an amusing anecdote: 3ds max and its dos-based predecessor 3d studio were made by Autodesk. Discreet was just a spinoff of Autodesk created around the time of 3DS Max 4, and later reintegrated into Autodesk
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>>583907
Middle-schooler:

Maya is based on combination of Power Animator, Dynamation, Kinemation, TDI's Explore (IPR rendering..). Alias|Wavefront started to work on next generation 3d software in 1994. Before that highend software was divided between several packages which were used across pipeline and Maya was the software to unify them all. Before NT4.0 was released Silicon Graphics was the proprietary leader in 3d graphics and all of these applications were only on that platform. Maya was in closed beta testing at least in Disney and probably at ILM too from 1995+ onward... It went through couple of revisions, for example people wanted the UI to be completely customizable and they decided to build the whole ui with a scripting language. MEL is based on Ruby btw. Maya originally released only for SGI 98 but it was released for NT in 2001 or so.

And this happened only because
Microsoft bought Softimage and ported it to NT and then let it to die. Sounds familiar?

Autodesk just buys stuff and destroys them. Last good Maya version is probably 4.5 or something. It hasn't progressed at all. Ncloth is it's best feature probably at the moment...
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>>586341
If you are interested in history of computer graphics there are plenty of resources.
https://excelsior.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~carlson/history/
This is the best place to know lot about everything. Also old usenet post archives are good way to learn.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/alias$7Cwavefront$20maya$201995|sort:relevance/comp.sys.sgi.announce/UE_Xf8qcOkE/2KlGeByPlIkJ

Because most people these days don't even know the fucking history. They just think it's "cool" and press buttons.
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>>586341

Stop being such an elitist. Maya is better than ever, the modeling tools are finally good, the UV tools in 2018 are some of the best I've ever used.
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learn blender
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>>586349
You can't even read you dipshit.

Modeling tools...yeah. They were always good but you just don't know how to setup Maya in professional manner.
Now that Autodesk copy-pasted the context sensitive menus from 3dsmax you think they are "finally good"...
KYS.
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>>586349
Stop being such a millennial. I have used Maya since 1.0 you faggot. It's great software but it's fate is in hands of Autodesk and they don't really innovate at the moment. They buy softare and then make their own half-assed implementation by making more new issues than fixing the old ones.
The fact you are using it to "model" something doesn't mean you can use it or doesn't mean you are using the software in professional environment.
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>>583929
>gsociety videos
recomend some good ones
where teh heck can you find em except peers
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>>583907
>why are maya and 3ds max so different.
Max and Maya see >>586341 have complety seperate histories, idiot.
Maya comes from UNIX / IRIX and Max was a progression from 3DS DOS to Windows NT.First Max came 1996 to Win NT.
>>585199
Max was originally from The Yost Group, later Kinetix. Discreet came later.
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Hey wiggers, I was going to ask the inverse of this question.

I've been using Maya for 10 years now, primarily animation/ rigging but have done most other things too. Before that I taught myself animation in 3D Studio Max Release 3 and haven't used Max since.

Now I might need to switch to it for a job I applied for. Has anyone here gone through this process? I said I could handle it in the interview, but I'm scared shitless that it's going to take too long, I'll be fumbling around, my value as an artist will tank as I try to catch up to where I am with Maya...

I don't doubt that I actually can learn 3DS Max since they're supposed to be similar. But looking into it and trying to navigate the interface, everything is so alien and obtuse to me. I'm wondering how you might have done this process and how long it took to get equally as comfortable?
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>>586454

Getting this mad over software. How's life in your basement you fat fuck?

Let me get this straight. Maya modeling tools always sucked compared to 3ds max, Modo and softimage. If you still don't understand that then it means that you never used anything else than Maya (or at least you didn't go in depth with other softwares).

Faggot.
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Why not both?
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>>586805
What are you supposed to do in your job?
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>>586805
I'm the complete opposite. Used Max for years and decided to try Maya about a week ago because people kept saying how is the greatest shit on earth. So I downloaded it and a video tutorial, and tried to do some things on my own and also watch video reference if I couldn't. Here are my thoughts:
1. Why the hell are all the transforms tucked away in the settings panel for each object? Why the hell are there so many object properties dumped and nested across the right-hand panel?
2. No spinners on anything in the entire program. Are you seriously saying that you guys have to manually enter values for everything you do? Houdini has the greatest spinners on earth since you get to choose granularity, and in Max you at least have slow and infinite scroll, in Maya you get fuck you. Being able to right click to undo a current action or reset to zero is also very nice.
3. Hypershade - are you fucking kidding me? Assuming you can actually find out how to open the menu (a single tiny icon in the render section), the actual contents seem like they were designed by an autistic person who threw in everything they possible could and arranged them in a way only they understand. Making any applying materials shouldn't be so hard.
4. Snapping and pivots gave me a headache, couldn't figure out how to activate angle snap at all and the tutorial on how to manipulate pivots didn't even say how to align the pivot of one object to another, if I activated the align tool (I think it was anyway) I would drop out of pivot edit.
At some point of all this disappointment I deleted the tutorial and uninstalled Maya, because when I can't comprehend how to get around basic things like this, I probably wouldn't have gone far enough for the so called "good stuff". Are these things an issue for you?
Anyways, if you still feel the need to learn your way around Max, ask away because there are people here that will help you, at least I'll try to.
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>>586819
1. Switch transformation space with a marking menu (Ctrl+shift+right click)
2. Click the numerical field in the channel box and middle click/drag in the viewport.
3. You're right it's dumb there is no default keyboard shortcut. I use the dollar sign $.
4. Press and hold j for temporary rotation snapping, turn it on permanently in the rotate tool settings, or use the ctrl+shift+rightclick marking menu. Modify -> Match Transformations -> Match Pivots.
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>>586870
Thanks for the support, but I'm pissed at it for the time being and will probably mess around later. I'd rather hone my expertise in a handful of programs till I'm good than waste time trying to figure out how to manipulate stuff in another environment. Some ways of doing things just come naturally to some more than others, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for all this variety of software.
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>>586870
>2. Click the numerical field in the channel box and middle click/drag in the viewport.
...I swear I tried every combination of clicking and dragging but it didn't seem to work. Wait, you mean click on the value but drag in the viewport and not over the box itself? Who comes up with this shit.
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>>586874
You can control click+drag directly on numeric fields too but I prefer the middle mouse in the viewport since it gives finer control, works for non-numeric channels and you can keep your eyes on the model as you make adjustments.
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>>586818
By specialty I'm an animator, even more specifically a 3D character animator.

This job would be an animator + a 3D generalist, basically porting and fixing assets from a high-end game to lower-end hardware.

So what scares me is that 95% of my expertise is outside of Unity. Tons of diagnosing and fixing shit is stuff I would do in Maya, and 10 years means using it is practically second nature to me. I know a lot of techniques and tricks for getting stuff done. Even if I don't know how to do something, I know enough to poke around (or Google) and figure it out. I do most of the heavy lifting in Maya and then reintegrate it in Unity.

Even though I really need a job and this one would pay well enough, I'm so scared that I almost hope they feel the same about the software differences and pass me over for someone else. I would be so confident if they gave the option of using Maya, but they sounded pretty strict about only licensing Max. I've heard "don't blame your tools" a lot, but it's like learning to write with your opposite hand.

>>586819
I feel exactly the same looking at Max. I could go through and answer each of your points like someone else did, but I know your point is broader than just those complaints. I wish they would just release straight-up Maya/ Max interface configurations for each. It can still work the same under the hood but do everything with the methods/ icons/ placement that the artist prefers.

I know it wouldn't be perfect, but I may as well be trying to pick up Blender or C4D... I've read that Autodesk only keeps both Maya and Max around so they don't alienate that userbase by dropping their favorite 3D tool. Because they already know the loyalty is to the interface and familiarity, not to Autodesk itself. At that point former users may as well switch to another company's tool.
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Is Maya any good for modelling? Don't you need to click to arrows or planes after selecting faces, edges or vertices to move them; or is there a better way around and i am doing things wrong because i don t know?
If that's the way to do it in Maya, i don't get why does it have modelling tools except for an emergency or little fixes.
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>>586905
Well, what I'd suggest doing is downloading a video tutorial on rigging and animation in Max from somewhere like CGP, and skimming through it to get an idea of what you'd be in for.
The interface in Max is fully modular, so once you get an idea for everything you could need, you could just go around pulling all the relevant menus where you want them.
Bone tools, constraints, wire parameters, parameter editor and all the other good stuff is all under the animation tab of the main menu. On the right-hand side your panel is split into different views for creating and editing objects. The modify, hierarchy and motion panels are context sensitive to your selected object.
Modify is where you add stuff like symmetry and skinning to a mesh, hierarchy is pretty self explanatory and you can edit your pivots there, motion tab is the meat of the deal for animation as that's were you can edit all of your constraints and change the nature of how certain types of motion are handled under the hood, change axis order, upnodes, etc.
To make a controller object you add an attribute holder modifier to any geometry and use parameter editor to create a new custom parameter within it, then you use the wire parameters dialog to link values like joint rotation to the new value you made, and you can add expressions here as well.
Right-clicking opens the quad menus and depending on where you click and with what button held down, it can show various options, so you can configure one to have all your animation tools.
I do very little animating myself, so that's most of what I can break down for you off the top of my head as I'm not at my computer right now.
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>>587182
hey thanks for the rundown - you didn't hae to, and I appreciate it.

>>587177
I'd say it's really good. You can just move any components with the move tool (hotkey W) like you'd expect. Right click and hold to select component type, or use F8-F11 (slightly different function but for now it's pretty much the same). F3 switches to the modeling menu set (also accessed by the drop-down menu right below File)

Dragging on an axis arrow will only move along that axis, dragging within the yellow box at the center will move in screenspace.

Ctrl+drag on one axis to lock that axis and move only the other two (eg. click+drag the red arrow to lock X and only move Y and Z).

You can get more move options by double clicking the move tool off to the left (if you don't have the Tool Settings panel open)
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>>586874
Middle click the attribute name on channel editor not the actual value. You can easily slide the value but when you actually work it's preferable to enter values...

The correct way to use Maya is to always have Outliner open along with channel box and attribute editor. Optimally you'll need 2 screens for that but you can do it with single screen.

This is issue with most of the people I have seen at work. There are middle level people who don't fucking use outliner. They open it and then close it, or have tens of windows on top of each other. Just because the software allows it it doesn't mean it's good way.

Houdini for example forces you to use certain interface bit more than Maya. In Maya you'll need to set it up, by yourself and customize around a bit.

Everything in Maya is node based but it is not completely procedural like Houdini. So first, if you go to outliner and right click and select show 'shapes' you will get to see what is going on. Each object or mesh has a transform node upstream and then 'shape' node downstream. Every time you select something on viewport you are editing the transform node. When you edit the actual vertices or topology of an object Maya will create a tweak node, or something related into the hierarchy between the transform and shape node.

Here attached is how you should use Maya. Use outliner on right side of the screen next to channel box and make attribute editor permanently visible. This way you do minimal cursor movements. You should probably move some of the stuff to other screen (where you can have script editor open as well etc).
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>>587499
Okay, so that explains a lot, at first glance I figured the Outliner was basically the Scene Explorer in Max and I think other people make the same mistake.
I still prefer the modifier stack in Max, and as far as procedural workflows are concerned, I'd go whole-hog with Houdini instead of a middle-ground solution, at the very least I find its interface easier to work with.
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>>586819
>when I can't comprehend how to get around basic things
LOL I'm like that every time I try out Blender and every time I think this shit UI was designed by a blind moron who doesn't use it anyway but only KB shortcuts.
I find my way around Max, Maya and Houdini just fine. But Blender is just shit for me.
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>>583907
At a certain point you just work out where all the equivalent tools are and forget Max was ever a thing you used to do.
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I got another question: why are they so fucking expensive? Just finished college and learned 3dsmax and maya there, just to find out that the monthly cost is so goddamn high that I either own a car or one of those programs. How do you anons deal with that (except switching to blender ofc)
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>>587553

They are expensive because they are intended for big companies who have the ressources to buy them. Add customer support and the huge developpement costs.

Maya LT is $35 a month and has everything needed for game dev, if that's not enough then you can just crack the full versions. I'd rather do this than having to use blender desu.
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>>587555
This.
The only reason i started with Blender was a test if i could get by with the terrible UI without getting cancer and to have an alibi-software in case i have to do some commercial work and don't have a legit license.
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>>587553
>Just finished college and learned 3dsmax and maya there, just to find out that the monthly cost is so goddamn high that I either own a car or one of those programs.
>either pay $185x12 = 2200 a year
>or
>$1470 a year

$1470 is chump change. I work construction and even I can easily swing that. You must be extremely poor to be poorer than me lmao
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>>587553
Haha, expensive? A decade ago Max and Maya licenses were around $6~8k, and then the upgrade pricing was also up there, more than the current yearly sub I think. Other packages were cheaper of course, but if a 3D editor cost $600 it was already considered aggressive pricing.

It’s quite impressive to me how the service model changed so much over time for so many things 3D, game engines too could set you back six figures for licensing, now you can literally get cutting-edge graphics for free, or next to it.
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>>587566
>>587576
> straight out of college with college job wages
I'm not used to normal wages as it seems
>>587555
gonna check out maya LT, thanks for the hint, also nice trips

not going to switch to blender, after becoming halfway decent in 3dsmax/maya I rather become better in one of em instead of becoming halfway decent in a third application

thanks /3/
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>>583907
I'm assuming the biggest difference at first was Maya being open gl which was why it was Mac first and I guess since 3dsmax is windows only it's probably direct x based
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>>587555
Or you could just buy Lightwave and not worry about monthly fees or horrible ui. Its also fbx compatible for all engines or 3d libraries
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>>587756
Definitely get Lightwave.
Lightwave is the best.




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