i see this term thrown around without knowing much about it, i seen a few lightning artists/generalists that do a really great job with their renders/assets.what are the duties of lightning artist? and how significant is that role in the industry?just saw a guy move from 1 software to another and he lit up a scene perfectly on his first try, i wonder how can you even learn such skill
Does anybody know of some good books/tutorials/articles where I can learn lighting on a deeper level?
>>580427>wonder how can you even learn such skillalways end your numbers for your settings in 7.that's the only thing you ever need to know.
>>580427I've been in the industry for 6 years, worked at all the major studios including ILM and Weta.Lighting is simple. Do you know about the basics? Rim light, Fill light etc? If so don't bother with books.Beyond that it's mostly down to a good HDR, split up in spec and diff, with the light sources removed. Then you add in the lights again as actual light's (area lights). Using the same intensity values they had in the HDR.Lighting in the industry as a lighting artist is not what you might think it is.Usually you get a setup with the HDR. Which already looks realistic usually.
>>581487I always thought that lighting is pretty hard to master and it is everything but not trivial. Huh, I don't know what to think anymore.
>>581487Is there some article or video that explains this a bit deeper? I don't quite get it.
>>581487You and politics may be the reason the movies industry is failing.
>>581491That's Tor fucking Frick!!! Show some respect!!!
>>581491I've just gone through the websites of Weta and ILM, didn't know much about them. Man, 90% of the movies they worked on were trash blockbusters for the masses. I can't believe this is what many 3DCG people consider to be a creme de la creme of a workplace. Yeah, the work itself is nice and all that, but the end product is a money maker without any soul.
>>581487i think you explained it nicely, but you can tell there is a stark difference when a lightning artist present something and just a guy that throws shit in marmoset.either way thanks for the explanation
>>581489What I'm getting at is there's a difference between lighting in the industry and lighting at home or in a small studio.If you want to do it in the industry as in working on the big movies that's something different than if you sit at home and have to set something up from scratch making it look real. In the industry you mostly work with setups that give you a base to start from that mostly already looks real.And that is the actual challenge.Lighting is generally regarded as one of the most difficult disciplines because it's what's responsible for realism.Learning by doing though. In books you'll mostly find artistic advice. That's nice but doesn't help you with the real challenge which is to make it look realistic.Practice. Work with HDRs, everything stands and falls with your HDR. Having a good physics based renderer is a given, vray, arnold, forget the rest.I don't know of any resources for lighting, sorry.
>>581491You're fucking retarded.It's so incredibly ironic because YOU are the fucking reason but all you dumbfucks blame us.I could write pages on what a fucking moron you are. To put it simple: Does your dumb mind actually think I am deciding what is being produced?No, YOU are. By watching the movies we make because you keep watching them.If you hate them so much don't watch them and the film studios won't make them.But guess what. The fucking 50 highest grossing movies of all times were all VFX blockbuster of the highest order. Do you understand what that means? That means literally billions of people love watching the shit I make. And FYI I'm proud to have worked on those movies. You can go dig a hole and cry somewhere else, not my problem, and even less my fault. It's YOUR fault.
>>581496So, you're telling me that you're not doing it by your own will but you in fact *are* the cause of the fall of the movie industry.
Should I use HDRs in UE4, too? Afaik people always use UE4's lights for interiors, and I don't know how I could use HDR for closed spaces.
>>581497have you no shame? just shut it.directors have a formula and they recognize trends, that's their job.how did things like dayz,minecraft and dota came about? not because of some far reaching corporation. its because of people and ideas, sometimes you beat the market by going against the grain.>>581499i think ue4 already have a built in hdr by default but you can change it
>>581493What did you expect to be the creme de la creme in this industry? Indy films?The work in these movies is absolutely spectacular and groundbreaking, these "soulless" movies are literally why the industry exists (George Lucas founded ILM for Star Wars).Working at these companies on these movies means you are literally the best in the entire world, there are maybe 5000-10000 people only working on Hollywood movies.The work is groundbreaking and pushes the technology every year. We're still not quite there in terms of absolute photojournalism.We aren't in this industry because we want to work on movies that critics jerk off to.We work on these movies because we love VFX. Movies are cool, but if you care so much about movies you need to work on indy stuff that nobody ever sees.If you can't appreciate the groundbreaking effects in movies like Benjamin Button or Avatar you are in the wrong industry. That's why we do this work, for movies like that. Movies that are visual feasts on the eyes and push the technology.
>>581497Let me get this straight. You are telling me to stop working the job I love because you don't like the product I make which billions of people are crazy about.Ok buddy.
>>581502I sure do appreciate the work put in, I just won't see it because yes, I don't like those types of movies and don't care about them, because it's all just pretty pictures without any substance, therefore, worthless. And you said it yourself by putting movies and technology in the same sentence. Movies are not about technology. Of course, IMO, and no offense to your work.And I'm not "in this industry", I'm an amateur who is learning 3D for 5 months and just wondering if I could ever see myself in this field as a professional. Tbh, only place atm would be somewhere in a games industry, but I know that is also not always that great.
>>581500Didn't know you were talking about game engines.That's a different story. I'm not very familiar with those. I'm guessing there will still be an HDR for the general environment. Indoors of course you can't use one but you don't need to, their purpose is literally to simulate the environment which you already have built if you're in a room.Also the realism part doesn't really apply because you're working with the game engine's restrictions and presets. In this case books actually might be of use to you.You're gonna want to think of colors, pick two, look up complimentary colors (orange/blue, green/yellow etc.) , choose a theme for your environment, look at movie reference and copy the look and feel.
>>581505hollywood movies are shit, everyone knows this. Hell, Pixar wont even make movies that aren't theme park friendly. Not only that, but they have to be SJW enough to be theme park friendly in multiple countries.This is "your product". Sad.
>>581505I'm just saying that the industry can not survive much longer on technological novelties laced with satanism, marxist politics and Doom re-makes. But if that's your job and it makes you money then go ahead.
>>581507I love how you deem an entire art form and industry "worthless" because you are not interested in it.I don't even blame you for not liking those movies. You don't have to. But what fucking gets me going is when people like you complain about VFX artists ruining the industry.NO. It's YOU, as in the audience that is watching these movies. Supply and demand. It's absolutely retarded to complain about the workers providing a product that's in very high demand just because you don't like that product. Complain about the audience, and maybe even producers and film studios (Warner bros, Fox etc).The irony is that in case you don't know VFX companies don't even get anything out of the success of these movies. Literally nothing. In fact they go bankrupt because the workload is too much and pay is too little while Warner and Fox make literally billions.So don't you dare say we are at fault for the state of the industry. We do our job to put food on the table just like you. Complain about those who actually have the power.
>>581509Hollywood movies are shit, everyone knows it.Yeah. Everyone knows it.http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/budgets/That's why they make literally billions. Cause everyone knows they are shit.Pixar turned into a shit company that's sole purpose is churning out merchandise.That's how capitalism works. Get over it.And this is not my product, animation is a very different field and I wouldn't work there, there is nothing in it anymore.Pixar completely stopped innovating 10 years ago and resorted to mass producing idiotic franchises for toys. "cars", "planes", everything they make is solely intended to be produced as toys. The only ones who still watch Pixar movies are 5 year olds, sadly.The industry can indeed not survive much longer. It's fubar, it's going to collapse sooner or later. most VFX studios are running on fumes because they get absolutely raped by the film studios.So don't worry, we're going to get fucked soon enough, hope that makes you happy.
>>581514And those are exactly the ones I am complaining about, not you. (Btw there are more of us in this thread, I didn't say you are ruining the industry). And I'm not saying the whole movie industry is worthless, but just most of those blockbusters with giant marketing campaigns (which is also why you got billions of people to watch it). And that's why I'm not interested in them, because they ARE worthless, not vice versa.
>>581524you sound like a teenager that think he got it figured.vfx studious are for profit companies, get over it
>>581522>That's how capitalism works. Get over it.thats not how it works>And this is not my product, animation is a very different field and I wouldn't work there, there is nothing in it anymore.its no different than planet of the apes or any of your other 100% cg weta trash. Tell andy he can have a gay statute if he wants, because that's all he is, a gay.>most VFX studios are running on fumes because they get absolutely raped by the film studios.wrong again
>>581528You're a retard, do any research at all on the VFX industry and you'll see how little the studios are really making.
>>581528You are completely insane, wow.Yes that is how capitalism works. Supply and demand. Pixar is making billions with this toy shit. Why the fuck would they make something artistically pleasing so you are happy? Are you 12?Planet of the apes is literally the most advanced technology in terms of computer graphics there is. To say this is the same as Pixar is like saying Ford pickup is the same as a Bugatti Veyron. You have absolutely no fucking clue what you are talking about, what the hell are you doing in on this board?Holy fuck, I'm wrong in that most VFX studios are running on fumes and getting raped by the film studios?Holy shit.Just holy shit. You know NOTHING at all do you?Literally every year one of the major 10 studios is going bankrupt.Fuck why am I even explaining this to you.The industry works with a flat rate pricing. The Film studios pay for one shot. They pay for the final result. Not for work hours or assets in the shot. This means that many shots are literally in production for years. One single shot. A few frames. Years. Do you have any fucking clue how much money we burn on one shot, and how much we get in return?I have during 6 years experienced two bankruptcies. There are only 8 big VFX studios making all VFX for all Hollywood movies. Dreamworks animation recently nearly went bankrupt, Digital Domain (founded by James Cameron) recently went bankrupt, Rhythm and Hues recently went bankrupt, literally days after getting the Oscar for the ground breaking work on the Tiger in Life of Pi,... Fuck why am I even arguing with you.You know absolutely nothing yet you bitch like a child, bringing absolutely no arguments because you are completely wrong.You are so fucking dumb it's not even funny. Why the hell are you in this forum, you know absolutely nothing about these things.
>>581528And to add to that, around 3 years back when another company went bankrupt there were big protests during the Oscar ceremony when life of pie got the VFX Oscar.People were protesting because Our studios are shutting down left and right that we literally could lose our jobs any day.We have no unions either, the VFX industry is literally the ONLY industry in movies which doesn't have a union. Which is why they can rape us. Have you ever noticed that despite VFX being by far the biggest part in any movie production today, the crew is still at the very bottom of the credits? Even coffee caterers are listed before us. Or drivers, or medics, people who have absolutely nothing to do with movie production. Because we have no union. The VFX industry is so deep in shit it's a matter of years for it to implode.But I'm glad you know everything about it, and I'm totally wrong.
>>581538>Planet of the apes is literally the most advanced technology in terms of computer graphics there istake your gay mocap and shove it up your ass. Literally nobody wants this apeshit>Literally every year one of the major 10 studios is going bankrupt. The industry works with a flat rate pricing. The Film studios pay for one shot. They pay for the final result. Not for work hours or assets in the shot. This means that many shots are literally in production for years. One single shot. A few frames. Years.sorry you're being mismanaged, not my problem>Dreamworks animation recently nearly went bankrupt, Digital Domain (founded by James Cameron) recently went bankrupt, Rhythm and Hues recently went bankruptgood. Life of Pi was godawful btw. I prefer real movies like old Rambo with actual effects and pyro to this weak shit>You are so fucking dumb it's not even funny. Why the hell are you in this forum, you know absolutely nothing about these things.go back to your shitty Alien Covenant shots or whatever the fuck you worked on
>>581540>Have you ever noticed that despite VFX being by far the biggest part in any movie production today, the crew is still at the very bottom of the credits? Even coffee caterers are listed before us. Or drivers, or medics, people who have absolutely nothing to do with movie production.On every Game of Thrones episode the special effects team is listed right there and your "caterers" are never listed. So shove this up your ass. Not doing GoT or dont consider it VFX? Too bad, shove it and go back to Alien Covenant
>>581541>>take your gay mocap and shove it up your ass. Literally nobody wants this apeshitJesus Christ, you show exactly that you have absolutely no clue about anything.Nobody gives a fucking shit about mocap. I'm speaking about realism and workflow. You have absolutely no clue of any of this do you?>sorry you're being mismanaged, not my problemWhat the fuck is wrong with you?Where did I say it was? You claimed with your complete lack of knowledge that this industry isn't in a very bad spot and studios aren't going bankrupt and not making money. I explained to you why you're an idiot and have absolutely no clue and are completely wrong.I never said it's your problem.>good. Life of Pi was godawful btw. I prefer real movies like old Rambo with actual effects and pyro to this weak shitGood for you? Who gives a fuck what you like?Again, I explained to you that this industry is in a very bad situation because you didn't know jack shit. Nothing more nothing less.>go back to your shitty Alien Covenant shots or whatever the fuck you worked onWow, what an insult. You literally are 12 aren't you?>On every Game of Thrones episode the special effects team is listed right there and your "caterers" are never listed. So shove this up your ass. Not doing GoT or dont consider it VFX? Too bad, shove it and go back to Alien CovenantYou are so unbelievably stupid.This is TV, not Hollywood you dumbfuck. This is a completely different system. How the fuck could this not be considered VFX though? This shows again you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. VFX is any effects work that's done in post production. How the fuck could this possibly not be considered VFX. You don't even know the basics do you? Again, why are you even on this board?And what the hell is it with your Alien Covenant? Did you pull that out of your ass?I'm done talking to you. It's a complete waste of time. You have not the slightest knowledge of this industry and craft.
>>581553>My opinionsFuck off
>>581542Show us on the doll where Alien Covenant touched you.
>>581553You are talking about the VFX industry in Hollywood or USA in general. Can you tell something about the general state international?I know that (US) VFX studios got battered from several angles. Canada and UK as well as Germany doing their Tax-trick game. I just saw Atomic Blone and i assume not only did they film here in Berlin they probably did the VFX here as well (probably cheaper as a whole package). Is the situation as bleak as you described for all of us or is it particularly bad for Americans because the USA is loosing its monopoly on VFX? I am 3d generalist and i am currently learning a little Clarisse and Katana, i could go in the direction of lightining artist, but does this make sense if the market is crumbling?
>>581587The USA have long not had a monopoly over VFX. VFX studios going to Canada, London etc is because they are chasing those tax breaks that make it even financially viable to bid so low on projects. The tax breaks are a bad thing overall for the industry because it makes it an uneven playing field and people have to relocate as studios chase cheaper operating costs around the world.The job market isn't crumbling, you'll still find work especially if you're great at what you do, you'll just have to be prepared to make sacrifices you wouldn't have to in other careers (lotta overtime, low stability, potentially having to move overseas, etc)
>>581594The tax breaks have broken the monopoly, without them there wouldn't be a VFX industry here, so i see it as a double edged sword. But it has turned bad for everybody now with this constant underbidding and outsourcing mentality. It seems worse than in the Video-games industry.
>>581587Like the other guy said, the job market is not crumbling. Don't worry about that if you want to get into VFX.Movies will always be around. And if anything VFX is an area that is needed more and more in the future with everything becoming more artificial.The industry is in a bad state.But what this means for now is that the work conditions are bad, in certain countries you work tons of overtime for no pay, the pay generally is not great, you'll make twice as much as a plumber, no joke. But if it is your passion, go for it.If it's not your passion I'm not sure I can recommend it, it might not be worth it to you.If you want to get ahead in the industry you'll have to be willing to relocate. Germany only has two reasonably big Studios and those aren't among the really big ones, I've worked at one of them.You can get good work there though, but again if you want to really get ahead you'll have to be willing to follow the industry, because it follows the tax credits. So say goodbye to your family, don't think about getting married or having kids unless you want them to relocate every few years.Personally, I love that. But for many this is something they can't deal with.Depends on your age too I suppose.In terms of location, America is fucked, the industry there is basically dead. The governor of California was not willing to do tax credits, that was the end. There are now only two major companies left there and they are slowly dying. I've been at both and they tell everyone to move to their other facilities in other countries. Everywhere else is fine though in terms of Job market. But again be warned, be aware that there only are a few countries that have this industry at all, and it will move.cont.
>>581594The industry will keep going like that until one day either the hand full of major studios there are, are finally standing up for themselves and say fuck you to the film studios, or until enough go bankrupt for the film studios to be in major troubles because the work load can't be handled but the vfx studios anymore that are left.The VFX studios don't realize the power they have. If they stopped accepting those terms the film studios give them the film studios would literally miss out on billions. They'd immediately bend down. But so far it's not bad enough for the vfx studios to pull on one string together I suppose. It will be, one day. And then shit hits the fan. But even then, they will have to come up with a solution. They simply can't afford to not have those movies made. So I'm not too worried.
I'd like to read about situation of game dev industry like this anon explained it for VFX. I'm more interested in games industry, maybe a bad decision, but I can't help it. I wanted to work in it as a child, forgot it, and after I got into 3DCG that thought reappeared. I really have no interest working on movies (that is, on the VFX position), or archviz, so games are probably the only option (if I decided to pursue this as a career).
I didn't know God Frick is a 4chan user. Feel like a teenager girl meeting justino bieber in person.
>>581778Tor Frick works in a game industry, and this guy seems to not know much about how it works, so... That's probably not him.
Can one of you industry vets critique this gif? I want some expert opinions (if it's possible, from a tiny gif).
>>581789Not a vet but I do work in VFX - I don't like the font personally, but it's probably fine. The main thing I would criticise is that the last pan of the light over it looks unnecessary and jarring - it's just gone completely dark and it comes back unexpectedly. I would remove it or change it. It might be different if it's to sound, but that's my impression from the gif.
>>581789It's nice, if you're going for a 90s look.
>>581795That last part goes along with the audio, so you were right about that.>>581798What should I do to modernize it?
Anyone has any tutorial on cinematic lighting?like how it sets the mood and maybe complement the models color scheme.
Glad I'm in Australia tbqh
>>581778Guys I'm not Tor Frick. I actually had to look up who that is. Recognized his work though, nice stuff. But yes he's obviously doing game work, it's all stylized where as I'm on the VFX side and do photo real work only.I do indeed not know much about about games. Personally I always disliked games (work) because your work in the end is being downrezed so much due to system requirements (let alone consoles) that it wouldn't be rewarding to me cause it just looks only half as good as you made it. Where as in film you can go all out and if you're working on hero assets you'll be able to plaster the screen with wicked detail.But to each their own.Can't say anything about the state of the games industry.>>581886What makes you think Australia is excluded from this issue? Or did I get that wrong?>>581789Do you want critique on your hobby work or critique as you'd hear it in the industry if you showed this gif? Not intending to be mean but I would certainly criticize a lot more.
>>581963The latter. Allow me to preface by saying that it was more or less a test to see what I should be doing differently before I do a more detailed, high-effort rendering. That said, let it rip, I'm really interested in what someone actually involved in the industry would have to say.
>>581963So when you say that most scenes are lit with HDR images. You mean even indoor scenes? How does that work?
>>582215You need to remember what VFX is for. The majority of VFX work are shots of CGI integrated into life action.>For this purpose a few people of the VFX company are present during the shoot and take HDRs of every set of shots that will eventually have VFX work done in post.>It doesn't matter if it's indoor or outdoor.>Sometimes these HDRs also get mapped on proxy geometry. Say the set is a room, a modeler builds the room and matches every detail, then the HDR can be projected onto that geometery.>Most of the time the geometry is only used for shadow casting though. Since you need proper 3d movement on the shadows of a wall off a room when a CGI creature is moving in front of that real wall for example.>The only time you don't use HDRs is when you have a full CG indoor scene. Otherwise you always use HDR.>I didn't say exclusively HDRs though. HDRs are used to simulate the environment. For actual lights to that illuminate the scene, like say a desk lamp or what have you, you still use actual light sources. You do that by extracting the light from the HDR in Nuke, then use that light image as a texture in the area light.>Which will give you the correct color and shadow shape except you can now control the position and much more importantly because of that, the proximity to your asset. Because you need to remember HDRs are flat images, they don't have distance information. Therefore a sun light in it has the same distance as said desk lamp. Which of course would give you a very wrong result if you had a character moving around, since obviously the shadows coming from the sun light need to stay stationary where as the shadows from a light that's next to you would move if you get closer or walk behind it etc.>>581789Alright, I'll leave stylistic decisions out of my critique (choice of font, animation etc).If something like this was done for a big movie, it would all be modeled. The wall would be made of individual panels and properly textured.
>>581789cont:The wall is looking very blurry and you can't make out any details.The next thing is the shader. You need to work on making the material actually look like metal. You need to utilize the available channels in your shader, diffuse, reflection (spec), etc, actually make proper texture maps for each, and work on physically correct settings for the shader. Index of reflection (IOR), fresnel (BRDF) model etc are hugely important to whether a shader looks real or like plastic.Also, use an HDR. make it low intensity but put something there. Look at reality. There is nothing and I mean absolutely nothing that doesn't reflect light. So that wall needs to be in some kind of environment. Unless it's in space of course. Subtle details like that are incredibly important to fooling the eye, we notice everything that's wrong immediately, even if we can't tell why, we notice it's off. We train our eyes for that literally our entire lifes.Sorry, I'm just seeing my previous post got botched, that greentext isn't supposed to be greentext.
>>582408Interesting feedback. So instead of using a normal mapped shader, actually extrude panels/surface details, and also have it reflect colors from the 3D text. By a proper texture map, I'm assuming you mean a texture made specifically for its surface with corresponding normal/height/reflection maps.... or is there some other map I'm forgetting? I hate to sound like a noob, but what do you mean by "use an HDR?" Do you mean an HDR image that would reflect on the surface of the wall? I've been thinking about this, and it seems like the only way to do it would be to first render the world around the text/well, then use that as the HDR image. Am I somewhat on the mark for that?
>>581507kek with that mindset in the best scenario you will end up working at a studio you absolutely despise, but you still will work there anyway, do you think every artist watches the movies they work in? of course fucking nothave fun in EA buddy, if youre lucky
>>581789That font is too generic