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File: tor-frick-helmet3open.jpg (739 KB, 1875x1350)
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Is tor frick even human?

He makes these in a few days time frame. Start following him if you dont believe me.

Intricate models that look like they would take months............ How the FUCK can we compete?
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>>569951

Can he make somehing that isnt ugly to look at.
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>>569951
Obviously he didn't model the head, the rest of this stuff could be done by a decent modeller in one day, UVs and textures another one.
If you cheat and don't unwrap the model it could be done even faster.
The problem is not the amount of work but the fact that he makes that stuff up as he goes.

So not only is he a fast modeller but also a very fast designer.
I could never design stuff that fast.
But he does cheat, he never unwraps and kitbashes stuff together.
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>>569951
You can accomplish his work speed within reasonable time. You'll just need to practice keyboard shortcuts, kitbashing, expanding your knowledge in technique, and you can eventually become just as fast. However he can concept ideas within his head like nothing, and although his designs can be hit or miss, I've seen some very impressive concepts be realized in a single stream of a couple hours.

As for your question, you can compete by not negatively comparing yourself to much better artists as you will never be the greatest artist in the world. You can however focus on your art, speed, and work ethic in order to become successful.
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>>569951
From the quick look of things, seems like there's at least plenty of pure, good ol' mirroring at works (you only need to model half of it), potentially a pre-made human face he recycles, and all those fancy details can be drawn in no time with Substance Painter and such. Slap on PBR shaders and a random photo for a BG and reflection maps, some basic lights to mimic ambiance...maybe some simple Photoshop post-processing... and you get what you see.

No, I couldn't get such detail done under a week, just yet at least.
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>>569988
oh anon, please show us the closest thing you've ever done to a tor frick render
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>>569951
easy, you can compete using something i like to call "practice"

it's like posting on 4chan except instead of that you make models over and over and over and over
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>>569995
I haven't done any. Not my style nor profession.
Been doing mostly heavily stylized low-poly stuff for mobile games and shit.
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>>569963
why did I ever go to ic and not here...
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>>569951
He streams and posts full modeling videos on youtube fairly frequently. Take a look at them and you'll see that he relies heavily on the rounded edges shader in modo that lets him jam together a bunch of geometry while making it look like one single, smooth object. He also makes extensive use of kitbashing and has a keyboard/mouse shortcut for EVERYTHING.
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>>569951
His workflow is pretty insane and he has a lot of tools that allow him to do things it would take minutes to do usually in seconds, but as another anon said it's his eye for design that makes him so fast.
I spend hours fucking about trying to figure out what looks good and he just seems to know when and where to put something.
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>>569956
>>569963
What's kitbashing?
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>>569998
>Been doing mostly heavily stylized low-poly stuff for mobile games and shit.
Please, anon, teach me. I cant into stylized textures at all. Pls, help.
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He most likely uses quixel and PBR texturing as I seen this model in a quixel tutorial. Nevertheless quite impressive.
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>>569951
>>570017
Is that supposed to look good or be pleasant to look at? Your generation is making great art and will be remembered for ages. Not being sarcastic. Not at all.
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Like some said before probably a lot of kitbashing, I think I have seen literally the same shapes and pieces a dozen times before.

Also most designs looks very samey as he takes heavy influence by old soviet design, everything he does looks like it's the front of an old soviet vehicle like a train or bus, bulbous and fat. Also noticable the cotton hood the guy in OP's picture is wearing is clearly influnced by soviet tank helmet and vatnik jacket.

It's interesting the first time but it kind of get's boring.
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>>570018
Oh shut the fuck up.
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>>570016
>I cant into stylized textures at all
It's not as simple as riding a bike. It all depends on the task at hand and the given / created design document you wanna follow.

For example, if textures are not necessary, you make do with flat colors + Celshading, with some minor details drawn on the surfaces to save polys.
If more detailed style is preferred, then you just dig some inspiration material, maybe tutorials how they were done, and then start first replicating it, then putting your own twists on 'em.

In a couple projects of mine, I used literal photos as textures for some parts of the models, because of the products' surreal yet kinda-cartoony style. In one of them, they were blatant pieces of photos used as oldschool colormap textures as-is, while in others I used mix of straight-photo rips and photographs as a model for hand-drawn textures, simplifying things to 3-4 colors usually. Pic related is one of my older works, which uses latter style, and has normals and specular maps cooked for the jacket to give it quite realistic leather looks. Overall, the character was based on real life person(s) and their photos, exaggerated in numerous ways. This render uses stock 3DS Max lights and stuff, the in-game had its own custom cartoon shader. Still, pretty close to how it ended up looking in-game.

tl;dr: having good basic understanding
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>>570015
Kitbashing is a term that comes from old school model making in vfx where you buy a bunch of models and mix their parts together to make something completely new.

When it comes down to it, it's just a fancy word for using pre-made models to make a new model. Here's an example of what kit bash models look like https://vitalybulgarov.com/3d-kitbash
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>>570024
This was actually used in a game? lol
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>>570027
Yes, mobile stuff between 09-12.
Like, when Nokia N95 was still quite hot shit.

For comparison, this is the kind of quality that was still expected from mobile phone games during those early days. I'd actually made some 1000+ tri model of the car, only to hear from the code monkeys that it's killing the target platforms performance, especially with more than one on the scene.
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>>570028
I don't think Anonymous was critiquing the fidelity of your model, but rather was dubious that something so lacking in artistic merit was used in a real game.
Even with a million polys, it would look quite bad.
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>>570046
Not every game ""studio"" is an AAA team with multi-million budgets or man power of hundreds of employees. And yes, polycount =/= quality, and the triangle budget was very strict back then.
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>>570024
this looks like absulute shit
the coat ugh jesus stop
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>>570028
lol 68 tris jesus
this is literaly a box
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>>570024
That wasn't really what I was looking for but thanks for your post anyway.
>>570066
Lol. Ok, stop bully the old-school lowpoly anon.
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>>570019
I agree. His workflow (rounded edge shader, lots of booleans, fillets, quickpipe) tends to lead you into a specific style of hardsurface, but I would really like to see him branch out and try something vastly different sometime.

It's certainly not bad for him, it makes his art very recognizable and iconic - the new Wolfenstein game was basically his art style exemplified and the mechanical designs in that looked great because of it.
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>>569988
>maybe some simple Photoshop post-processing

There is more than simple post processing going on. The model OP posted looks like only the face is textured, and the rest has been painted on after.

Somebody post an animation this person has done to prove me wrong.
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The gay guy in that suit is supposed to be a fighter of some sort, right? So how does he turns his neck with two toilet drain pipes attached to his ears?
>>570078
>the new Wolfenstein game
sucks. So does the new Doom, so does the new Shadow Warrior. They're all weak, nonsensical and futile. Just like your generation.
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>>570024
Why did you model the guy who shot all that poor christian girls at Columbine?
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>>570066

That's literally not a box, ya dingus.
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>>570124

Stay mad faggot.
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>>570363
I'm not mad. I'm sad. For you.
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>>570124
By the way, anyone who reads this guys posts - he repeatedly spouts on /3/ that newer artists, or "this generation", are shit, when in reality we are at the biggest expression of artistic creativity in 3D since ever, because of how technology is now available to everyone with ease of access to knowledge.

This guy is a pitiful, resentful, bitter individual who in reality failed at life and is just butthurt younger artists are better than him. Won't be reading his reply either, just thought I'd chime in because this is definitely the guy who keeps shitposting about "this generation". Ignore him. :)
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>>570377
Stays sad faggot
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>>570116
The helmet is procedurally textured with material presets in modo. No painting done what so ever. Maybe color grading and things like that were done in photoshop.
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>>570024
That looks like ass
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>>570430
He's right, i've fired more artists younger than 25 y/o in last year than i have fingers. Problem with young artists is, they have access to GREAT tools, but dont work hard - i've spent around 3000 hours in 3ds max and photoshop, before the substance painter/quixell era started, and they usually do 5-6 tutorials, get a nice result on that AK47 rifle or grenade, and thats all - when comes to real work, and god helps us all, if something requires out of the loop thinking, they all lie on their backs and wiggle their limbs in air. Technical lead artist speaking here i work with 10+ artist team, and im responsible for hiring/firing people too.
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>>570913
Anecdotal means nothing when you compare the artists working in AAA. I only work in Arch Vis but we have a very talented young guy who is making top notch quality. These are all anecdotal, including yours, so what you really need to look at is the art being done in AAA. Many of the artists you are seeing in these companies making the assets are 20-30 years old. It's silly to think that young people can't create substantial work. The only argument that is being made that is at least somewhat correct is the work ethic of many young individuals, but that applies to the entire generation, not just 3D. Even then, many young people are hard workers, so your anecdotal evidence means nothing when you look at the scope of the AAA artists behind Uncharted, Battlefield, Battlefront, Ethan Carter, and blah blah blah. Sure the games could be bad mechanically, but technically they look very nice.
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>>570913
People nowadays are very lazy. The want to get by without working hard. They think they can cheat their way into the industry without studying, without putting the hours and basically over relying on the tools. "I'll just make a fast, (quicksketch of course because working a whole month on something is too much ) crappy model, no matter the anatomy is wrong or that it doesn't match references(because I didn't use references, duh, those are for faggots), slap some pre existing material in substance or quixel put some bloom effects after in photoshop and that's it. But why won't naughty dog hire me, oh my god guys I'm not gonna make it|"
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>>570920
Thats true, its anecdotal evidence. But i work in semi-big studio in quebec, if you play PC games you probably played or at least heard of few titles we've made (i wont go into details, this is 4chan) - and i just spoke my mind how the industry looks. Of course, sometimes a new, ffresh student witll show great potential, then its a hire for sure, even if he's lacking in experience or skills, but most of the time, its guys like >>570921 just described, which makes me sad, because i spent last 15 years working in industry, with first 2-3 years learning 3d and 2d, working with amateur dev teams on some mods/indie games, gathering experience, and now people dont even have 1 year learning cycle - they are either after some bullshit gamedev schools, or after few tutorials of whatever popular software is out there.
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>>570923
industry experience is what you dont get anywhere else but in the industry. and thats what matters only when you are talking about big projects
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>>570921
>But why won't naughty dog hire me, oh my god guys I'm not gonna make it|"
but mate, Naughty Dog the company is themselves lazy. They have literally made the same game 4+ times in a row and are definitely and I mean DEFINITELY working on even more uncharted or TLOU which is the same
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>>570923
You realize we now have a plethora of game developers because of how open ended the internet is, so that anyone can learn it now? It used to be that it was more closed, even in the 00s, and was harder to learn the skills needed through the internet. Now we have skill levels relevant to furry scat diaper fur 3D, to AAA photorealistic results. The reason you are seeing shittier artists is because there is a plethora more amount of artists to begin with. I do agree, the generations continue to grow lazier, but this is not a trait than should be applied to everyone, especially those who hold skills. It's not as if skillful artists are albinos, you are just seeing more shitty artists because anyone can download Blender or a student version of an Autodesk product, or etc, and easily learn to make professional art through the internet alone.

Once again, you are mostly seeing shittier artists because there is no need for formal training anymore, and that there is a huge amount of artists and coders because of how accessible the knowledge is - not because the entire generation is retarded/lazy.
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>>570928
As far as the details they put in and the overall quality goes you can't say they are lazy. The fact that they milk that franchise dry is something else but the artists working for them produce amazing work and are incredibly skilled
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>>570929
You are stating the obvious thing, and im aware of it. My point, and problem with current generation of artists is, they lack self-ciricism, and while having ALL THE KNOWLEDGE YOU CAN GET in a reach of mouseclicks, they're cocky, lazy and most of the times simply bad. You have no idea how many times i've go through story:
1. new artist got a simple asset, like a lighter or grill or something not important.
2. But anon, I DONT WANT TO SOUND COCKY, BUT DID YOU SAW MY PORTFOLIO? This asse tis too easy for me!
3. (to myself: Yeah, i saw your fucking 4 tutorials models and 2 models you did based on someones other models/concepts.) Please do this asset, and next one will be more complicated :-)
4. After repeating 3 times how good he is and how easy this task is, i'm getting something that have basic errors like disorted UVs, often hole sin th emesh, errors in baked normalmaps and whatsoever, the list goes on. Texturing is usually horrible, literally drag n drop presets without any handpainted masks nor personal touch. Would give few examples, but dont want really for sake of anonimity.
5. asset goes through 3-4 rounds of feedback, instead of spending 20 hous on a freaking grill model we spent 60.
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>>570930
they made the same game 4+ times. Most people think that uncharted/TLOU is borderline not even a game, but an interactive movie to boot.

Texturing is the easy part
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>>570924
well i disagree. I dont expect people to know pipelines of 50+ people project, but i expect them to at least know that naming file sis important, and you cant just 'skip' some process making the models, or gave the pivot 4 nautical miles away from center of the mesh, or this or that or that... list goes on, but these are basics that i expect from anyone who at least once gave the model to other people for evaluation/further use. And yes, this is industry experience, and you can get it by working with other people on some fan projects - work with semi-competent programmer and give him textures that are non-power of two, mesh is not scaled poperly, there is 17 material IDs that are useless, and naming is related to genitals. And no, Im not exagerating, this shit happened in my teams in various studios, i could wrote a freaking book about new people. Not that im saying ALL the new people are bad, im saying that majority of them lack self-criticism and humility.
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>>570934
No, you're not getting it. You keep complaining about young people being cocky and pompous, as if that's somehow not an obvious youth trait from almost every generation. Even further than that though, it sounds to me like your hiring department has low quality control. This sounds more to do with anecdotal evidence of your studio being crap, than young people.

You continue to cry about your hires being shit, but perhaps just don't hire shit people? Like I said, there are more artists now, and as such that means more shit artists, but also more good artists. Perhaps raise your hiring standards to that of people with actual skill? The people we currently hire are those with 2-3 years experience using different renderers as everyone can be retaught a new renderer, Maya/3DS, and extensive knowledge in materials/lighting. It sounds to me as though your studio is just hiring shit people, instead of people who you gave multiple art tests, 1-2 interviews, and have inspected their quality and work before hiring.
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>>570936
Why do you continue to focus on the game directors decisions to crucify the game technically, when what you're really angry about is the plots, mechanics, and gameplay? The graphics have nothing to do with a continued milking of a franchise, nor whether the "games" are games or not. Strictly from a technical standpoint like the other anon said, you have nothing to whine about.
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>>570939
Why assume that we hire shit people? Obviously they're not hired, usually they fail at art tests, maybe i should state that more clear.

People usually sent us their portfolios, and after browsing through a lot of AK rifles, grenades and knives, few individuals that show some nice pieces are tasked with art tests (paid of course), and after that, they're invited for a test period in our studio, to see if they fit into working with team of other artists, animators and even programmers. And usually they fail either at the very beginning of the art test, or in the middle of test period. And well, you wouldn't believe some people that went through our doors - people from blizzard, bosskey, bethesda, gearbox. Sad part is when someone can make great art, but can be only worked with remotely, because in person they're terrible people with lack of basic human compassion and understanding.

We work in game industry, not rendering/movie/cfx, so its not a matter of renders - I worked for few years, and they're usually much easier to master (inb4 butthurt) than making a good, tripleA quality asset.

And again, im talking solely on negative people in industry, once a while there is young, talented person that end up being great addition to the team. Butwhen i need 5 artists at once, for 50 people i go through only one is acceptable - thats why i use term majority.

btw:
>>as if that's somehow not an obvious youth trait from almost every generation
Its a bad traid in this indystry, and leads to frustration, because ALL of people with that traits cant take a smallest feedback or criticism.
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>>570942
>>as if that's somehow not an obvious youth trait from almost every generation
It's a bad trait period, but it spans over every generation. You keep bringing personality up as if somehow it only applies to this generation, which is 100% dead wrong. Don't bring up personality, because every generation has their asshats - it's a dumb thing to whine about.

Second, thank you for being more clear. You kept talking as if you'd hire individuals who are retarded, which made me wonder why you were bitching in the first place, instead of the employees who hired these people. So what your real argument is, is that you have to go through a bunch of shit artists, to get to the good ones, which again, directly lines up with my point that there are many more artists now who have access to the knowledge to create art. You continue to pretend as if this is an issue, when in reality you just need to go through the retards. Guess what, this is life, and wading through the shit to find quality is something every industry has to endure. Guess how many retards don't know the difference between a GPU and CPU render and how many applicants we fail on the first art test? Because right now what I am hearing from you, is that you just hate shit artists.

Wade through the shit to find the good ones. I will 100% reaffirm it is not a rarity to find a good, young artist like you keep pretending it is. We have quite a few 25-32 year old guys working on our projects, with the guy I mentioned earlier will probably become senior/director very soon. Sounds to me like you're just projecting that young people are shit, when in reality there are just more shitty artists because of how accessible the knowledge is. We turn down plenty of older individuals as well, because they still don't know anything.

It's life, deal with it.
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>>570944
I was pushing the agenda that
>>there are just more shitty artists because of how accessible the knowledge is.

instead of
>>Sounds to me like you're just projecting that young people are shit,

I've stated that good young folks are rare, but they exist. And yes, going through retards is what annoys me most, and thats directly ocnnected to how available the knowledge is - that is good thing, but i'd expect people to require a little more from each other, rather than be... cocky and pompous.
And when i mentioned this as a bad trait that disturbs ability to gain experience more quickly (because why that old guy is talking shit about my great art, he knows nothing), its easily spotted that people who can take criticism learn much much faster, and thus became better artists much quicker than ones that dont.
Such life.
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>>570945
Then I can 100% agree with you that people are snowflakes and can't take criticism on their art. I 100% agree that yes, going through the retards is strenuous and aggravating, especially if you're on a deadline to hire a quota. And yes, I 100% agree that cocky asshats pollute the work environment. I am just saying that don't blame young people for this, blame retards. Have a nice day.
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>>570940
Wtf are you talking about? This started with someone talking about Naughty Dog being the place to be and then me calling it shit and lazy as a whole which it is because it makes the same shit over and over and over. Do you think some game director calls those shots? Lmao

Do you not get it?
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>>570947
>As far as the details they put in and the overall quality goes you can't say they are lazy. The fact that they milk that franchise dry is something else but the artists working for them produce amazing work and are incredibly skilled
You replied to a post talking about the graphical fidelity, not the mechanics, and even further than that, you replied to a chain that was also talking about graphical fidelity, not just laziness.

If you are just upset about the mechanics and elements of the game, instead of the graphics, and you were only replying to laziness, not graphics, then my apologies, but you replied to a post talking about the technical feats in terms of visuals.
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>>570948
>You replied to a post talking about the graphical fidelity, not the mechanics, and even further than that, you replied to a chain that was also talking about graphical fidelity, not just laziness.

video games are graphics

pls go somewhere else if you cant handle truthful anonymous discussions. Sorry you have a hardon for lame companies. Perhaps you work there or what not
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>>570954
Yes, but a game franchise that is milked is in no way shape or form related to graphics. Nor is a "game" being a "movie" related to graphics in any way that you are currently arguing. You're really just butthurt at the developers choices, not the graphics.

You have no arguments about the fidelity, so I'm going to stop responding and I won't be reading your replies as all you want to bitch about is the choices they make gameplay and mechanical wise, not the visuals. The other anon is right, you're retarded.
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>>570968
jfc
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>>570930
>As far as the details they put in and the overall quality goes you can't say they are lazy. The fact that they milk that franchise dry is something else but the artists working for them produce amazing work and are incredibly skilled

The individual sculpts are excellent but the dude openly said most of the males in TLOU were morphs of Joel. Tess is hands down the best model but the least used.
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>>570938
>naming files is important
If I had a nickel for every artist who names files by randomly stabbing keys, and I mean that literally not figuratively
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look at the modelers that worked on the last 2 ghost recon and you will see that dressing up soldiers is not a big deal as you might think it is.

yes its extremely difficult for any average modeler but iv seen maybe artists that climbed the ladder when they actually stuck with it and managed to pull off some interesting dressing for characters
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>>571328
>what is marvelous designer
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>>571328
>its extremely difficult for any average modeler
The number of tutorials aimed at medium level modelers on how to make clothes and hair suggests otherwise and as >>571330 points out MD will be the industry standard if it hasn't become so already. It carries its own levels of proficiency but I can easily see studios either requiring that or having specialist designers the way they don't expect modelers to be texturing experts.
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>>571379
i don't give a fuck about MD.
the hard part is making all this gear and make it fit on a character someone else made.
also need superior knowledge of baking and handling polygroups
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>>571382
>i don't give a fuck about MD.
You will. Clothing modelers I know who use MD say they'd never go back to traditional modeling. Until conventional modelers can build meshes from UV maps instead of the other way around, MD will continue to dominate the field.

>modeling gear
>superior knowledge of baking and handling polygroups
Please correct me here but there's nothing about designing clothing in MD that makes the end result somehow mutually exclusive to what you said above.
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>>569951
Slit your throat.
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>>571383
its a chain response. look at what i was saying.
tor frick is a hard surface modeler. and he does posses great presentation skills, but its not like the industry didn't catch up to what he is doing.
responses like "is tor frick even human" is just silly because we have character modelers or hard surface modelers that can easily match tor frick.
modern games look like shit because they are over optimized. and most of them its not necessary, its just port issues and stuff. but the artists that make these games are doing a great job.
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>>571392
Point taken, I thought this was a general discussion about choices in modeling and not whether we all need to get down on our knees and fellate one developer like OP suggested. In any case thanks for the info.
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>>570025

When I was a kid and built models from kids my favourite thing to do was use all the optional parts and parts from broken models and toys to kitbash weird vehicles and spaceships.

I would always wish that model companies would just sell giant bags of random parts, things like factory seconds that didn't mould correctly or bits of discontinued products. Kitbashing in 3D is just as fun.
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>>571403
> A box of random greebles
I never knew I needed this before
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>>570019
No one ever does the 1940s/50s/60s aesthetic right through. The original designs have a simple elegant hierarchy to them. Modern designers like sticking random shapes together and then peppering them with random shit to further break up the design. You never see that stupid Star Wars-esque aesthetic in the actual reference material. Even old military machinery doesn't look like that.




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