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File: shit3.png (24 KB, 476x820)
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Hey guys.
Been working with Blender (Free) for a year and have made a lot of random stuff, from things to characters, but no matter how hard I try I never manage to nail a proper face.

I've tried to create one from a sphere, from a box with a lot of subdivisions, dynamic topology, and sculpting.

This one was created with a single box cut in half for mirroring. I usually create characters from a box, I like to extrude limbs and details. In my opinion it leaves good topology and a good count of tri's.

I make models for games, so I'm not looking for the most realistic face, but the best technique or starting point to get something that can look good, no matter what it is for.

Usually when creating characters I have created them with masks or helmets to leave the face out, and as you can see I have cheated a bit with a simple beard to make it easier.

Any kind of feedback or tips is appreciated, but keep in mind that I'm not looking to be the best, just good enough for simple games.
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>>552446
This was the first result, butobviosuly not useable.
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>>552447
*but obviously

This is with texture and a light source.
I know, the the texture is shit, I draw them myself and I have 0 experience with drawn art. I'm going low budget. (If you have any tips about textures too, I wouldn't complain)
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>>552449
Thanks for any feedback or help.
Please don't be unnecessarily mean or harsh.
And keep the blender discussions somewhere else.
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>>552450
This is very amateur work but you know that. Box modelling is a perfectly fine technique as long as you can make the box not look like a box when you're finished (you didn't).

You could always try poly modelling. I don't personally enjoy it but some people find it easier. Do you use references when you're working (virtual Studios, front, side and top planes with drawings on them)? If you don't start.

As for topology it is very important but don't worry too much about keeping perfect squares or tris. Instead try and use the image I link as a reference for your topology.
The way to improve is to keep making them, save each one but just make a completely new one every time. you can use concept art online to help make a character.
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>>552449
>>552458
Your texting is actually the best thing about this model but you do know eyeballs aren't black they just have a black pupil right?
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>>552446
>Blender (Free)
is there a premium version of blender I am unaware of?

Anyway, I'm going to ignore your request to,
>>552450
>Please don't be unnecessarily mean or harsh.
So, sorry in advance if I assblast you accidentally, but you've been using this program for a year.
I'm a bit shocked you haven't learned how to properly set up face topology within that time.

Let's break down your post, then:
>In my opinion it leaves good topology
This is wrong. That topology is terrible. Your topology should look like pic related, because this is the correct way to set up faces.

>and a good count of tri's.
Try to avoid tris. Especially when creating characters for animation.
Also I see no tris on your model, so I am not sure what you're talking about.

>I usually create characters from a box, I like to extrude limbs and details.
This is fine. The technique you are using has a name, specifically "box modeling".
You now have a name, google tutorials on how to improve.

>I've tried to create one from a sphere, from a box with a lot of subdivisions, dynamic topology, and sculpting.
>and sculpting
Stop.
You're still a beginner, despite the time you've spent on this program. Do not attempt sculpting until your modeling and anatomy knowledge are already acceptable.

I understand your model is designed to be stylized to some degree, but,
I'm going to give you some advice that some faggots here may disagree with.
Study actual human anatomy and create as anatomically correct human faces as you can before attempting stylized art.

Watch more tutorials.
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Look up face topology and try to follow the topology. It will help you tremendously if you know facial anatomy. You should know the starting point of the muscle and where it ends and how it overlays on the skull.
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>>552458
So, poly modelling is using references and creating polygons that fit the curves of the image? I started with a reference drawing, but it felt wrong and didn't end up as expected. I felt that starting from a box and doing it by feeling was better. Will keep practicing though. Thanks!

>>552460
I know how eyes look, but I was trying to create a zombie, not the rotten kind but more like possesed. Still in progress though.
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>>552462

Gonna split this in two, got a bit long.

>is there a premium version of blender I am unaware of?

Well, (free) was more a way to quickly explain why I use blender. Nothing else.

>I'm a bit shocked you haven't learned how to properly set up face topology within that time.

The thing is, this is just a hobby for me. I've had weeks and months where I haven't had shit done, and I've always avoided this kind of work because I never felt any progress. Everything else was easier, hiding faces was easier. Also, sinse I'm creating a game, a lot of time have been to figure out the engine and how models and animations work. Let's say I've had blender installed for a year. Working with it comes and goes.

>This is wrong. That topology is terrible.

I'm not saying that the topology here is good. I meant that box modeling would create good topology. This model is shit, and I know that, which is why I'm here asking for advice. Anyways, the face you have here is realistic. I want it with style. I'll get back to it.

>Also I see no tris on your model, so I am not sure what you're talking about

My bad, I always thought all faces was converted to tri's, but you don't see it because it would look messy. I guess I mixed that with polygon.
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>>552470

>The technique you are using has a name, specifically "box modeling".

Now I know, will definately do some research about that.

>Stop.

I did some sculpting to create a detailed normal map for another character and it worked fine, but I realize heads are a completely different thing, especially if I'm sculpting from scratch.

>Study actual human anatomy and create as anatomically correct human faces as you can before attempting stylized art.

I get your point, but I undertsand why people would disagree. Why would I create realistic faces with correct anatomy if my characters have to be low poly any way? Why not work on creating stylized art and use that instead? Just asking.

Was not assblasted, things just got a little sore. Sorry for the ramble, not trying to excuse anything here, just letting you know why and how and stuff. I will take your advice, and study anatomy, but I don't think it will have that much use in the future. Probably good if I ever wanted to create more advanced models though. Thanks for the answer though, it's helpfull!

By the way, I know I'm shit, but at least I haven't given up. This is one of the few things that I actually want to keep doing, for real. I just have to spend more hours each day doing it, and every day for sure.
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>>552466
Yeah, as >>552462 said basically.
I know, but I get lazy, and studying anatomy is not exactly what I wanted to do most when starting this. Now that I know how important it is I'll try to get the hang of it. Does it have to be as fine as pic related? Can I use less faces and still have good results?
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>>552472
lets cut to the chase.
you make things better when you see how other people do them.
therefore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv0tjldopzY

i can shower you with tutorials, but only YOU can have the patience to learn them.
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>>552473
Damn, that's long. I'll start watching it emmediatly.
I know blender and 3D modeling in general requires patience, but time is not soething I bathe in. Will still try to dive though. Thanks!
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>>552471
(Not my art in the picture)

>Why would I create realistic faces with correct anatomy if my characters have to be low poly any way?
Anatomy is especially important with low-poly art. In low poly stuff done right, every vert has to be manually adjusted to make it look correct.
Pic related.

In regards to stylized vs realistic though, it's more about learning the basics than anything else.

Instead of learning how to create stylized art+learning how to model (two things), you can instead use pre-existing realistic references, something that already exists, while you work on learning how to model.
When modeling realistic heads, you KNOW the original design isn't bad, because it's a human.
It's something that exists already. All that's left to judge is your own skill, and all that's left to improve is your own skill.

This next part gets a little pretentious and gay. I hesitate to write this all out, but,
Stylized art done correctly requires a certain workflow to make it look correct.
You need to know the rules that apply to making realistic stuff, and why you're breaking certain rules to achieve a certain style.

Anime models, for example, usually have very exaggerated large eyes.
How big? It varies from model to model. It's up to the artist's interpretation.

It isn't too clear, but it's certainly larger than a normal human's eyes.
How big is that?
You won't know unless you've studied human anatomy.
How large should I make the anime character's head?
Larger than a human's, no doubt, but how large is a human's head?

You get the idea.

Anyway, good luck anon, and keep at it. Hope this pretentious ranting was helpful in some way.
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>>552478
Also one last note. Saging because double post.
All this doesn't mean you should never attempt stylized modeling.
Creating stylized models from scratch is a skill in of itself, but it's also one that requires you know the basics first, that's all.
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>>552462
I don't know about whether this applies to Blender sculpting. But telling people to put off sculpting before they learn point modeling is not great advice. It's like OP who put off learning anatomy and modeling because they spent time learning a game engine.
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>>552450
All got to start somewhere.
Organics and characters aren't my forte but the first thing I can notice is that all your edge loops are parallel with the grid, so if you shift the front edges down you'll have more of a natural face and less of a stony looking front.
I wish I was brave enough to even attempt characters. I did some in college but it honestly trips me out
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>>552490
If your goal is to make a character model that's capable of animation, with good deformations and topology, I can't see why you'd learn sculpting before modeling.
You could, I guess, but you're going to end up having to learn modeling anyway.

If you were a beginner, what would you even do with a sculpt once you've made it?
Retopologize it? You wouldn't know how, let alone what the topology should look like.
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>>552468
>So, poly modelling is using references and creating polygons that fit the curves of the image?

No, no your mixing two things up. Poly modeling is another type of modeling like box modeling mentioned above, it's starting with a single plane and extruding more geometry out of it.

Using refrances in each view is known as a virtual studio, pic related. This should be the first thing you make when making something organic or complex that has a refrances.
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>>552446
I do have a few quick tips.

Start with a rounded cube. It's there, you just gotta look for it. or, start with a regular subdivided cube and round it by bringing in the corners and pulling out the centers of the faces.

Use Extrude for you features. Need a nose? Extrude it out. Need eyes? Extrude them in. Mouth, chin, neck, ears, etc. You'll have more geometry to work with that way.

Also, set shading to smooth if you want. or the Smooth Vertex function take care of odd lumps.
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>>552446
Also, proportional editing is your friend. Use it. Don't model one vertex at a time.
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>>552478
OP here.
It makes a lot of sense to learn the basics before jumping into style, but I have been lazy. I'm working on creating faces now, but its like a whole new subject within modeling, much more advanced than anything else I have done so far. Rigging have been shit too, but that is actually easier than getting this right IMO. Thank you though, things are starting to clear up.

>>552497
I think this model is beyond repair to be honest.
But as you are saying, just start somewhere. You can do like I, create characters completely covered in clothing. This way you can avoid organic material that looks weird until you feel comfortable jumping into the next step.

>>552503
My problem was getting used to references. I would have them, but I didn't really twist my mind around the side view, I couldn't really see where vertices were supposed to be placed. The method you show here seems really advanced though, might have to put that on hold. Is it normal to have planes as layers in the middle of the scene, or am I missing something here?

>>552523
For some reason I didn't think of extrude when working with faces. I always just created loop cuts and dragged things around. Will have to try this out. I like to work witha flat shader though, I feel like I have more control of geometry that way.

>>552524
Something I'm working with, but I feel like the size is never right. Sometimes it covers too many vertices, sometime too few. COmes with practice I suppose.


So far I'm trying to figure out getting the "flow" with loops when using references, I'm practising to get comfortable with those. Will post an update when I have something unless the thread is dead, don't know how long it's going to last. Anyways, thanks for the help, was actually incredibly useful.
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>>552583
I accidentally taught myself poly-modeling. I think after a while people figure out techniques, with enough practice.
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OP here.
Been fucking around a bit, watched a few tutorials, followed them, but after a while I got a bit restless and decided to create my own from scratch with a reference image.

A lot better than the original, but there is still something wrong in my opinion. And I'm trying to keep it very low poly, but this technique requires a bit more extrusion than what I want. Any way to make the flow look good, but remove a few faces?

Again, any feedback is welcome. Texturing is going to be a lot more work now, but I think it's going to look ok, just need a bit more time.
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>>553592
Here is the front.
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>>553593
From side with visible polys.
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>>553592
Are you using references for the front and side views?
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>>553595
Yep. But after I was done placing it correctly I noticed that it looked a bit off, so I went rogue and made my own changes.
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>>552470
Blender is free, and so can be Maya for example...
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>>553594
a big imporvement
what i improve is to remove that dense loop around the lips. you don't need lips, just the mouth part, you paint the lips on the mouth part. its not a modeled part in lowpoly characters.
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>>553614
To add to this comment, the eyes so much better but you can remove most of those loops, at most you need two loops for the eyes. Really good job OP you did better then I was expecting.
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>>553614
actually there is a technique that you can use quickly.
select a loop and tap G twice. it will slide the loop and even out the topology
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>>553621
I always get carried away when modeling, its like I'm forgetting that most details will be on the texture. Thanks for the feedback though, glad it doesn't look terrible.

Personally I'm not satisfied, so I'm going to make a new one with less poly's and a different reference.

Here is with a texture. I think the face looks too fat for a zombie, will improve on that. Will also try to make him look a bit more serious, with a touch of anger. Would be nice to pull that off.

>>553635
Tried it, and it works wonders. But I'll leave this guy alone and start fresh. Good to know though!
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>>553708
please, i want to see the new iteration.
you are on the right track
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>>553712
Will keep posting updates!
It does take some time though, so be patient. The next step is a hard one too, facial features and stuff. This looks very plain imo.
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Here's the newest I have made.

Less polygons, didn't only remove from the eyes, but the lips and some all around the face itself. Thanks for the lip tip, not did it only reduce polygon count, but it also made them look less plump and rather dryed out, which is exactly what I need. By having less poly's, the face looks also a bit more bony, which fits what I'm trying to create.

I also made the eyebrows a part of the texture. The hair is suppsioed to be thin, was way too thick in the other one. Also, changing facial expreccion is much easier now, I don't have to rely on changing topology.

Other than that, I use more texture rather than material now. You can see that on the beard, instead of being semi-colour you can see the hair strands better. Don't know if it looks good, give me some feedback on that.

The face is also thinner, which really helps on the zombie look.

And lastly, I baked AO and put it as it's own layer in the texture and scaled the oacity down. It's not very visible, but it makes shading look more realistic in a way.
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>>554049
Here is with smooth shading.
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>>554050
This time I added a few faces inside the mouth as well, so he can now open it. Good for simple animations.
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>>554052
Looking forward to get feedback.
This is actually something I can imagine putting into a game. Only a few tweaks, and it should be fine for a first game. Now I only need to make a few different looking guys to make it a bit more mixed, and create a full body. I'm still planning on how to do that, but I'll keep that pretty simple I think.
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>>552446
Humans have big craniums. Monkeys have big jaws. You created a literal monkey right there.
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>>554055
Well, it's supposed to be a bit cartooney in style, so I'm exaggerating some facial features.
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>>554049
i don't rly care if its a human or undead zombie. can you show wire?

go to object data and tick show wire and draw all edges.
just offtopic here. usually when you draw shading and highlights you set the material to shadeless
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>>554049
>>554059
seconded. Looks bretty gud, but show the wires.
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>>554056
Maybe that's why you're unsatisfied with the faces you make, then. You're trying to create stuff that stands out, but the artist within you is getting irritated at those same stand-outs.

Protip: Feel free to make practice stuff so that you stop getting artistic blue balls. Even if it goes unused by anything.
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>>554059
>>554061
From side
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>>554066
Front

>>554062
Thought you meant the first one, since that is the post you replied to. I'm actually happy with the last one, both systematically and artistically.
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>>554066
thanks.
the topology is done right. but i think you should work on your texturing skills.
get a wacom or something and open up photoshop/krita whatever and start practicing. i do it with materials for example.
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>>554069
I actually have a wacom already, but learning to model AND just to use the wacom in itself turned into a bit much. But now that the topology is okay, I can start making proper textures now, but I will see how this turns out with normal maps based on the texture. Might be okay, but will probably be shit. Anyways, got a long way before things will be perfect.
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>>554069
>>554071
By the way, any tips for better textures?
When you say texture skills, do you think about shadows, filling in empty spaces, or simply the design?
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>>554072
well first and foremost you can decide on what to work first.
do you want to make busts and practice facial topology or you want to make full bodies with ears and 5 finger hands?

when i say texture skills i simply mean how well can you make the illusions of detail without any light or shadow existing in the scene.
here are a few examples:

https://youtu.be/LcCQKuWPhXk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-lDd3KPqZg

it takes alot of patience but the idea is simple

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnSy_klFEik
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>trying to make a good cartoon human before even attempting to make a good anatomically correct human

I see this all the time in 2D traditional art, and its fucking retarded.
you're never going to make a pleasing stylized or cartoonish character without knowing how to make a proper human first. you're just using "hurr stylized" as an excuse not to put any hard work into learning it.
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>>554086
My plan is to create full characters, but the setting is winter and snowy, so only mittens, no hands needed. So, simple thick clothes, simple hands, and a face that doesn't hurt to look at. This is the first game I'm making, so I don't have high requirements (or expectations).

>>554089
I would have agreed with you if I ignored all the advice here and tried creating stylized art on my own. But I have actually put effort into understanding facial anatomy and topology. It's far from good enough, but I've been working at this for two weeks, cut me some slack man. Right now I'm just doing what feels correct.




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