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Hi! I've been working on a model based on this image reference:


I've really hit a snag when it comes to hair though, I can't seem to make it nice and "fluffy", give it that volume I see in well done models of this kind. No matter how much I push and full verts, it just looks like a bunch of flabby banana peels instead of actual hair

Anything I can do to make it more natural? I've followed this tutorial for the basic body...


...and tried to follow this one, for the front of the hair at least:


Even though I'm going through game design in university, I don't have character modelling classes yet, so this project is mainly for fun (and to try and impress my teachers, admittedly). It's my first model too, and as such, I'm aiming to learn and improve as much as possible. So, if it's not a bother, feel free to point out any flaws, and as many things that can be corrected as possible so far.


And here's the Maya project folder thus far, in case it's necessary:


The idea was to go through the modelling > texturing > rigging process for this, to eventually put it in a game engine. Thank you very much for your time in advance!
If it was me i'd probably download a MMD model like TDA miku and look at how it is
Pull out verts based on their normals.
DAT PIC. and cool i guess...
Look at how some ZBrush sculpts and animated 3DCG characters execute hair, they don't model out each individual strand as it is, they make do as if it's a vinyl figure and start with big clumps.

This, in my opinion, is a really good example:
Hey, thanks. This actually worked out pretty well. I took out most of the gaps up front from the hair and gave it a bit more volume. It doesn't look that different, but from different angles, it feels like it is.

It's still nothing impressive, but I'm happy enough with it to move on to clothing now.

This was a good idea, and I did try to download a model which came in.pmd format, but unfortunately I couldn't find a way to open it in Maya, which would be the most interesting option.

I tried using something called mmd transporter, but since there's no tutorial in english on how to make it work, I couldn't get it up and running. I do think it'd be interesting to see one though.

Is this possible to do in mudbox in your opinion? I don't mean to start an argument over which software is better; it's just that I have student licenses for the autodesk suite so it's much more convenient for me.

I probably should've covered both of her eye sockets in retrospect.
>Is this possible to do in mudbox in your opinion? I don't mean to start an argument over which software is better; it's just that I have student licenses for the autodesk suite so it's much more convenient for me.

Any software will do, I'm just talking about how some people model hair, not the software specifically. It can be achieved via box modelling as well, but some just prefer sculpting.
Mudbox doesn't have free-form mesh generation like ZBrush, so it's not really possible in Mudbox. Mudbox is primarily about sculpting details on work you've already created a base for.
Like I said, I'm just talking about the way they make hair, where it's not many strands and extrusions, but morelike a huge mass shaped like hair
Box model it first then push it into Mudbox if you want to further refine the shape
Big forms to smaller forms
I honestly wouldn't even use Mudbox and just do it in Maya
You wouldn't get the clean forms that are required by the style by doing that in Mudbox.
You can actually, you just need to sculpt smart
The video I linked earlier had hair similar in style, yet it was sculpted.
Don't get too focused on the software anon.

And like I will say, again, it's not about the software, and I even said I would've prefered not using Mudbox anyways.
Status update.

- Gave one Smooth command to the body to make it a bit more shapely.
- Added side-bangs to the front of the hair's mesh.
- Modeled some clothing.

- Re-did the whole upper laugh-line area. The previous version had a weird bulge in between the mouth and nose which made the model look like a strange alien from the side.

- Worked the overall midriff shape of the body in Mudbox and modeled a bellybutton.

-Fixed the hands a bit. Hands still look weird but they looked very deformed before. I especially cannot get the thumb to look quite right which is unfortunate.

-Put some basic materials with colors in to make it more eye-pleasing. Mostly Lambert though, since I'm not sure what material skin and hair should have yet.

The face is still weirdly deformed underneath the jawline. I'm not keen on giving the region yet another Smooth command since the face already has a weird dissonance going between jawline and cheek polycount (http://imgur.com/HIXD7Ni). It would be nice to have an easy way to smooth it out more hassle-free.

I'll probably try to put in some bones next. Any comments, suggestions or criticism is welcome and appreciated.
Oh, and of course, thanks for the feedback so far.
jesus christ that face
Face isn't my strong point so far, I will admit. I don't know where it went wrong but I remember trying to follow the face's topology pretty carefully. The massive, non-textured spheres on the eye sockets certainly don't help.

In fact, it's such a bad point when compared to some examples in sketchfab that I'm thinking of just ignoring the reference and re-doing it from scratch based on some other example. It's not looking good shoulder-up very much at all.

I'm curious of your topology. Body seems OK but yeah, I want to know about the face.
it's michael jackson! he's alive!
I'm having some trouble mapping those IK Handles to my rig. Following this tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA8X_KrmEhI) works until I get to the part where I check the first leg IK, which is the ankle I think, and this is the result in basically every limb connection. The leg is supposed to bend as if you're raising it upwards in an L shape, but it looks like a mangle, evidently. Every limb rotates fine but turns into this mess when attempted to be moved.

I'm fairly sure the rig itself fits inside of the model well enough. Am I meant to just ignore this and move on until I have manipulators properly in place?

There's really not that much to say about it. I tried to follow the face's side topology (http://imgur.com/Mmtjg25) as such and this is the result. The first version is on the OP, and the other ones are all attempts to smooth out the cheeks, lower the bump in the area between the mouth and the nose and try to find a way to make the eye sockets not as ridiculously big. I'm probably just not doing an assortment of things correctly, though I never meant for this to look like an MMD model or whatever, and the Miku image is really just a coincidence, so I really don't mind what the final facial appearance looks like.
sexy :3
And this is what the skeleton looks like. Pretend that first neck connection leads into another one which then leads into a final head connection, because it does.
Hey anon pmd/pmd files have to be opened in mikumikudance! I've worked extensively with that program so ask me if you have any questions about it
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No, I don't think that's quite it... I made sure and reinforced the paint in between the joints, but this is still the result.

Makes no difference if I push Leg_1's paint further down or Leg_2's paint up. The IK seems to work if I push the foot's move reticle all the way down as if I were to stretch the leg outward (http://imgur.com/fGsV3Qq) but not when I push it inwards (http://imgur.com/rzOSZmt). The line turns green and the knee itself goes inward, which is literally the opposite of what it's supposed to do, not to mention this isn't the bone I'm supposed to manipulate for this result to be happening in the first place.

-Is there a way to make the wireframe a bit more discernible? Like hiding bones and IK handles.

-Is there a proper selection tool to play around with the bones?

-Do you know of a way to export the models to different programs?

-Does MMD have rigging tools? If so, is it a good idea to rig these kinds of humanoid models in MMD?

This is the x64 bit version of the program which I've downloaded from here (http://www.geocities.jp/higuchuu4/index_e.htm). Thank you for being here and for your time!

It's not twisted so the weighting must be flawed. Maybe some other bone having weight on it rather than the one you want, select the surrounding bones and make sure they're at 0.

I don't see why an IK would screw up the skin deformation like that.
very suitable for the /3/ halloween addition
File: ss-(2015-10-31-at-07.30.gif (1.15 MB, 1112x715)
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I un-skinned the skeleton to put the leg bones farther apart, did an interactive skin bind and made absolutely sure that no weight was influencing something it wasn't supposed to. Having a look through the color ramp, I see no weights from other body parts that have any influence on the legs.

This leg will just not bend the right way.
Did you delete history before binding?
No, but I assumed I didn't have to, since the tool apparently does that for you by default.
do a delete history any ways, and make sure you dont have a bunch of weird nested transform nodes. What may have happened is you used a tool that's generating your mesh based on one or more input meshes. f you try to skin a mesh like that it some times can have weird results.
I Un-binded the skeleton, cleared the model's history, re-binded it... same story as >>500340.

I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I do have some other models sitting around on the scene in case something went horribly wrong with this one. I've already tested clearing out the history/deleting the other ones, and attempted to skin them as well just to make sure it wasn't a problem with this particular copy, but they all seem plagued by the same issue, which makes me think I screwed up somewhere way back in the line.

There's something curious I noticed when I re-opened the scene just now though. By chance, before I re-bound the skin to the skeleton, I happened to check the model's verts and it's all a shade of spooky blood-red (http://imgur.com/LQH78nM)! And that is not soft-select turned on, by the way.

If I re-bind the skin to the skeleton and then un-skin it, the verts return to being purple (doesn't actually fix the problem though). Maybe this has something to do with the problem? Every attempt at googling this just leads to people saying to turn off soft-select.

And here's the stuff associated with the model when it's loose (http://imgur.com/afyV7bK) and with the skeleton on (http://imgur.com/nnThNdt).

I hate having to maybe do this because in relation to this software, I was always taught that fixing your mistakes is always better than re-doing it, but I'm starting to think I should just re-do the whole model. I am making zero progress at this point.
>It's my first model too, and as such, I'm aiming to learn and improve as much as possible.
look mate, for a first model I've certainly seen much worse, but I would start of with something more simple so that you can really learn the process, and once you've gotten comfortable with the software then start working up to things like characters.
Have you tried exporting the mesh as an OBJ, and the rig as an FBX, then simply importing those two things into a new scene?
I did this, but I forewent importing the rig, because I felt like I did it wrong after all. I exported the model as an .obj and re-imported it into a new scene in Maya. The program gave me the following message, so I'm guessing there was a problem with an object being influenced by a bunch of other crap.

So I redid the skeleton, this time paying close attention to how I placed the bones. I made sure not to follow the body's anatomy as close, and instead tried to give every joint a tiny hint of forward curvature to make sure it's bending the right way. And lo and behold, it worked (http://imgur.com/1Q1n1H2) . Thanks for the suggestion, friend!

At least, I think it's working properly. I have the foot's bone selected in this instance and the leg bends the right way, but I thought from watching the tutorial that this was also supposed to happen if I selected the knee joint. But you know, I'm really not going to complain, because I'm itching to get back to work on this.

No way, I've got a whole board of pros here answering all my questions and helping me out, so this is a great opportunity. Plus, I'm dressing for the job I want, so if I start out with the complicated stuff, I'll learn a dozen times faster than if I did something meant for beginners. If I manage to export this to an engine, then I'll have invaluably learned way more than I would if I modeled a ball to roll or something.

And I can't deny I'm enjoying doing this.

Don't get cocky kid. The basics exist for a reason.
So the whole thing's rigged, at least as far as that one tutorial will take me. No hands, but maybe I can figure that out. If anything looks wrong with the hierarchy or the structure, please let me know.

One thing that's bugging me though, is the viewport's FPS. It is absolutely dismal in this scene, it will never go above 20. I can still manipulate the body and such, but it's pretty damn choppy. This is a new scene I imported the model's .obj file into and I'm not sure when the problem started.

Google suggests turning off 'Deform User Normals' in any skin clusters that have them and setting 'Vertex Animation Cache' in the viewport 2.0's options to Hardware. Neither have unfortunately worked to remedy the framerate.

Gonna work on the skin weights next, and try to get bones in the fingers.

Please. What could possibly go wrong at this point?
Besides everything else that already has, that is.
>Please. What could possibly go wrong at this point?

You've completely missed the point.
It was just a joke on my part.
>It is absolutely dismal in this scene, it will never go above 20
Is your viewport set to Viewport 2.0?
It is. Legacy and Legacy High-Quality have no difference.

The previous scenes do not have this problem. Might be because of the .obj import.
Importing an OBJ wouldn't incur extra processing. It's no different than if the model was created in the scene.

You could try Edit>Delete All by>Non-Deformer History.

And yeah, VP2.0 is the one you want, it performs best. It also has a settings box you can click that gives you some nice viewport rendering features, like anti-aliasing, which makes things look cleaner and nicer to work with, and AO that gives you more grounded objects that are easier to differentiate.
Oh, thank you, the delete all non-deformer history trick worked wonderfully. The viewport's averaging more than sixty now.

Maya took a while to delete it too, like a good ten seconds, so maybe there was a lot of that built-up or something.
Yeah hehe, when in doubt, delete history. Maya has a dynamic history system, so all operations you've done to an object can have their parameters adjusted even after other operations have been done on top. You've already sort of seen this when you went into the Connection Editor, all operations will be their own connection nodes, that can be rearranged and connected to other stuff or have stuff connected into them to drive dynamic functions.

The only problem this causes is that it has to frequently reprocess this history chain so the mesh can be updated with changes; if you have a large history, or history with very expensive operations in it, it'll result in lower FPS. So if you're going to rig a mesh for example, always delete history on the rig and mesh first, or after you've done operations you know you won't need to go back and change the settings for.
>I'll learn a dozen times faster than if I did something meant for beginners
practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. "beginner stuff" is meant to teach you things like topology, UV mapping, baking, stuff like that. If you don't learn the basics you're going to have a really hard time later on, there's a reason the basics exist.
those arms
that nose
all of it

I'm way past that now.
I'm just trying to help you man, your anatomy is all out of whack and I don't even want to see your topology, if you get this cocky this early on and ignore your basics, you're going to have some seriously messed up models later down the line when you try to make more complex things.

I don't need your help, and if I do I'll ask for it.
>and if I do I'll ask for it.
Stop being a little twat. This is a public board, you do not ask specific people for help. You either post your work and get input from any fucker who wants to give it, or you fuck off and live in a bubble of self-gratification.

(btw I'm a different person)
look mate, if you're gonna to be a puff about it you're never gonna get anywhere. It's a simple and well known fact that if you want to get better, you sit your ass down and you put in the time and effort to master the basics, because they're gonna to be the things you use and build upon if you ever want to get better. And I'm not being funny, but if all you're gonna do is come here and act like you're the cock of the walk and that somehow you're better than everyone here who had to go through the process of learning the basics, then you're just wasting everyone's time and might as well go to a hugbox where they tell you it's perfect and you're the best.

It's not like any of you faggots will know who I am the next time I require your assistance so you'll just give it to me anyway.
Jesus mate, who pissed in your cereal? But yeah, maybe next time you post you could be more polite and then people will be more inclined to help you. If you're just going to wank over how well you think you're doing, you're never gonna improve.

I've already got what I needed.
Uhh, by the way, I'm not the guy taking the piss out of you all. I've been busy with with another assignment so I haven't had time to work on the model and haven't been monitoring the thread.

Yeah, of course man. I mean, I don't agree that practice needs to be perfect, practice is practice and by its very nature, may be somewhat flawed at first until you get good at it and get good instruction towards it. I agree that the basics are essential though, I just find doing complex things right off the bat so much more challenging and thus, rewarding.

I perhaps agree about the anatomy, but I do have to ask: does it look wrong as a whole or do specific parts look wrong?


Again, this is the reference file. As an exception for the temple/shoulder blades area, which I do admit look kinda out of whack on closer inspection right now, I pretty much just picked the vertices and dragged them over the body outline. The original reference kinda makes Miku look emaciated (I mean, her ribs are showing way too much for me not to make that comment) and her lower legs and feet look like they're about to bend over and crack. I still ended up picking this reference for the idea of modelling something with as little clothing as possible, so that I could use it for my own pose references later in drawing.

I hope the other guy hasn't drawn anyone away. I have no control over who posts, but I posted the thread to get criticism and try to improve, so if I'm not taking it well, it's probably not me. Sorry.
oh alright, guess that other guy was a shitposter then. And "perfect practice makes perfect" is just a saying, it means that if you practice the wrong thing the wrong way then it's not going to help, and it can even be detrimental to your skills.I know it's tedious and boring but trust me learning the basics well is incredibly useful.
That said, your topo isn't that bad, at least around the part in your picture. I'd say fix the part on the neck if you can by lowering the amount of subdivisions, I'm guessing you modeled the head separately and then put it onto the body?
Speaking of the head, that's the most obvious complaint I had with the anatomy. There are smaller things like the fact that it looks like you modeled her collar bone from the side view, since in front it looks like there's some sort of lump on her chest. Her collarbone should definitely have much more of an indent on someone as skinny as she. I know it's an anime character (or looks like one at least) but again, perfect practice makes perfect, and if you can learn proper anatomy now, you'll have a much better time later down the line. I'm sure many other anons can give you much more specific advice on anatomy, since there are more than a few experts here, but try to learn it as soon as possible because it will help.
Body aside, the face is the most obvious problem. I'm assuming you did half the model and mirrored it, which is fine for now, but you really have to be careful when doing that with things like faces. The nose is the problem that stands out the most, it looks like it's been removed and only the skin over it remains. Again I know it's anime and the picture doesn't give a good idea of how the nose should be, but I would recommend overlaying a picture of a skull and building the nose from the bone up. The cheeks and lips too are a bit eerie looking, but again if you model it from a skull then I think they'll look a bit better. (1/2)
check those sick double doubles
anyway (2/2)
The eyes of course are a problem but again I really don't know what to say other than try to make it based on actual human proportions, I don't have really any experience with anime style so I guess I would say just try to go for a more human look. Overall I would say fix the nose and the anorexic cheeks and you'll be a lot better off with the face at least.
>I'm guessing you modeled the head separately and then put it onto the body?

Yeah, the legs, arms and head are all made separately and attached to the body later. The head was a more complicated case since I had to model the actual face first, then join it with a sphere on the back for the head shape, then merge the face mask and head together, join that with the neck, and finally model the ears, cut a hole in the side of the head and merge the earpiece in there.

It was challenging but fun. I really don't mind the face, it's really the hair I'm most disappointed about, since I enjoy good-looking stylish hair more than another boring, same-featured "anime"-styled face. Honestly, if I can pump the hours into making a nice looking, fluent, well-mapped and well-textured hair, I would be happy enough to not even bother with a face.

>Body aside, the face is the most obvious problem.

Alright, Halloween is over, so let's get rid of the ghastly face. It'll look strange for a bit but I'll work on building at least a proper head mount step-by-step instead of modelling it directly off the reference image's topology.

>There are smaller things like the fact that it looks like you modeled her collar bone from the side view, since in front it looks like there's some sort of lump on her chest. Her collarbone should definitely have much more of an indent on someone as skinny as she.

I've taken the model into mudbox, smoothed out the temple region under the head, looked up a few images on the region and tried to pull out a proper pair of bones. Even if it's not quite right yet, it was completely worth it to spend the time here, I can't believe I had the model go for this long with such a weird lump on her chest. The difference is night and day.
Oh, the gif color palette doesn't really do the change much justice up front I guess. I was expecting a bit more of the shadows from the SSAO to come through. Well darn it all anyway.

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